This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I removed the stuff about existentialism from the intro. I hope this is ok since I thought existentialism was a strange thing to mention so early in the article since it is not clear if he was or not an existentialist. I also removed mention of existential commonplaces. The term sounds odd, who is an existentialist today? Instead I said he provided some of the basics for Continental Philosophy. Lucas
The both of you should take a break from editing this page, or at least the introduction, for some time. It seems to be getting personal and less about collaborating for the benefit of the article and the community. If you both do not find it objectionable, I could read over and edit the best-case scenario versions of the introduction in each of your points of view, and then post a merged version here. Take me up on the offer, find another way to resolve the issue, or take a breather - in any case, please be more civil and good natured. -
Sam
20:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps we might agree as to some references to provide an adequate range of perspectives on the subject tied to verifiability and clear use of credible sources? I wonder as well whether one can talk about Heidegger being characterised as an existentialist without discussing the broader issues of his French reception and translations of his work into the French language. (To be direct about it, I think that is somewhat consistent with Lucas's view by implication.) Might I suggest off the top of my head Ethan Kleinberg's Generation Existential as one such source and Dominique Janicaud's Heidegger en France as another?
Let's remember that, despite the fact that Derrida had so few kind words for Sartre's work for much of his career (and there were much later extended references, including if memory serves a treatment of Antisemite and Jew in "Abraham, l'autre"), he was willing to credit accounts of his work that indicated some filiation with Sartre (sorry, I don't have any cites on hand for that one on hand, let alone any particular mastery of the details). Sartre may have been taken down a few notches in the French canon, but just about everyone continued to read him, to the point that influence may be quite understated and even a bit subliminal outside of the brighter lines drawn around the "Letter". Buffyg 22:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
As I said before, I don't love the Continental tag, but when someone uses it, I have some idea what they're talking about. It may well be that I go through the dialogue you've rehearsed every time. One gets from it a sense of breadth as the expense of referring to something that has little coherence outside of a generally shared set of references. I can live with that. As for "earlier receptions of Heidegger's work should be privileged", I go on to read that your motive was to allude to where Heidegger's work "made its first impact" (a claim that is itself debatable). I don't think this point needs to be further belaboured.
As for your remark that, "I would merely point out that while a philosopher can be strongly influenced by his contemporaries, it is somewhat more challenging to be influenced by the future." I believe Heidegger's quotation of Kleist at the conclusion of the Wisser interview speaks to this in speaking of the "coming mind": "I step back before one who is not yet here, and bow, a millennium before him, to his spirit." Apart from all the calculation as to his contemporary influence and however difficult, Heidegger evidently anticipated his future reception to take on just such a challenge.
To be frank, everything else seems to be arguing the toss. I don't concede any of your further argument, and I see no need to specify my objections. Further argument seems to me to serve no other purpose than to distract from editing, as I don't see it having any clear consequence for the entry. A number of the issues you've raised definitely need to make it to the article (is it just me, or does Dilthey make no further appearance than on list of influences?), so I'd prefer to encourage your contributions there rather than to drag out our exchange here. Buffyg 21:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
'Question re Heidegger qua existentialist': I should think (borrowing this idea from elsewhere on this page) that it is erroneous to judge the question of Heidegger and existentialism based on the actions of his French successors/imitators; rather Heidegger must have essential existialist aspects in his work, or be following a tradition. I am not sure that there is a definition of existentialism (my personal one is "issues arising out of existence") and 'existence precedes essence' is Satre, not a tradition. So to turn to the second question, Heidegger's place in a tradition, are we right to say that Kirkegaard was the first existentialist? Kirkegaard's influence on S & Z is obvious, both in the concept of Angst, but one can also see the birth of das Man, which Kirkegaard tends to express more poetically and less 'objectively' than Heidegger does. So, thus: was Heidegger influenced by the existentialist flavour of Kirkegaard? - Indubitably. I think the article should concentrate on the basic precepts/concepts of existentialism as applicable to Heidegger, stating influences if possible, but perhaps largely ignoring the question of French influences. 'Letter on Humanism', while a response to the French situation (Satre), need not be seen as a engagement with Satre's thinking. Does anyone know if Heidegger ever read Being and Nothingness? ````
The article says that there have been book burnings on his campus during nazi-time - the German article says that he stopped book burnings which is also what my fairly dim memory suggests. I can't find any source right now but is there anybody here who is sure there have been burnings or maybe even has a source? -- Kricket 14:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
btw. @ Mtevfrog: great work!
In Rudolf Otto's Heidegger: A Political Life, it states that the national day of book burning (May or June 10?) was "celebrated" at Freiburg too, and that there was nothing Heidegger could have done to stop it.
KD
This doesn't seem to have much treatment at all. First we're told that it happened, then we're told that Heidegger never went along with it. It's not really clear what's at stake in arguing either way. I'm going to hunt for some sources and would be grateful if someone else could provide more of the same and/or have a stab at revisions. Buffyg 20:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
The actual picture of Heidegger is all pixeled and without strength. If the problem is that other pictures have copyrights, I would recommend this one, wich at least has better quality: http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/tito-/Heidegger.jpg (I didn't change it myself cause I don't know how).
Heidegger wasn't exactly an atheist, it seems a bit misleading to label him as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.12.131.148 ( talk) 19:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC).
The introduction does not need to come before the early life and right after the table of contents. Its info should be condensed and put in the beginning introductory paragraph at the top and the article should begin with his life right after the contents. Afghan Historian 19:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, does the sentence "Philosophers are divided in their opinion . . ." belong in the article at all? Although the statement is cited, it contributes nothing to the article and isn't really a statement of fact since we haven't polled philosophers. Also, just one or two agreeing with the quote would satisfy its terms. Furthermore, the paragraph is understandable and informative without the sentence. 166.165.207.67 ( talk) 16:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
(Cut n paste from the Reference Desk, in case it might prove useful Wetman 04:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC))
You might want to begin with The Rectorate 1933-34: Facts and Thoughts, Heidegger's post-War memoir on the period, though I should caution you that this is a work of self-justification, which disguises as much as it reveals. In essence, his rectorship at Freiburg collapsed for of a variety of reasons, including good old-fashioned departmental politics, vicious and treacherous as always, no matter what regime they operate under! Beyond that, one has to take into consideration Heidegger's own political naïvete and his gross over-estimation of his importance, both in the Nazi academic world and the broader scheme of things. One also has to take into account the nature of the Nazi system itself, and its underlying theory and practice. No matter what stress was placed upon the sublime, Nazism was shaped by mediocrity, not excellence. It was the world not of the Superman, but the Supermouse.
In his memoir, Heidegger maintains that his position at Freiburg was undermined by a conspiracy, involving his academic rivals and the district student leader, Dr Gustav Scheel, who later became Reich leader of students and university lecturers, and Gauleiter of Salzburg. Heidegger certainly had opponents at Freiburg, especially in the Law Faculty, though not all were doctrinaire Nazis. The matter, though, went far beyond the confines of the University. In November 1933 the Nazis created their own structure of leadership within the whole university system, elevating Party mediocrities and time-servers to important positions in the Reich Association of German Universities. It was a clear declaration that Heidegger's bid for leadership of the German university system had falied, and that the Nazis had no real use for him, no matter his international stature. Abandoned by many of his more important colleagues at Freiburg, and snubbed by the government, Heidegger was in a personal, professional and political limbo.
There were also those in the Nazi movement, led by Erich Jaensch, his former colleague at the University of Marburg, who made every attempt to ensure that Heidegger would not be offered a leading position in Prussia or the Reich, because they did not wish him to be seen as 'the philosopher of National Socialism.' Jaensch complied a memorandum arguing against a proposal that Heidegger be appointed head of the Prussian Academy of University Lecturers. It would be against all reason, he wrote, " ...if what is possibly the most important post in the intellectual life of the nation in the weeks and months ahead were to be filled by one of the biggest scatterbrains and most eccentric cranks we have in our university system: a man about whom men who are perfectly rational, intelligent and loyal to the new state argue among themselves as to which side of the dividing line between sanity and mental illness he is on." And this on one of the best philosophical minds Germany produced in the whole of the twentieth century! Against this background it is no great surprise that his rectorship failed. He finally resigned in April 1934, not February, as he says in Facts and Thoughts. You will find much more detail on this whole affair in Part Three of Martin Heidegger: A Political Life by Hugo Ott. Clio the Muse 00:26, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The very fact that Holzwege is translated as Off the Beaten Track instead of Paths Through the Woods indicates that translations of Heidegger's works into English must be regarded as doubtful and useless. Lestrade 14:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
I think Heidegger is considered to be obscurantist by many readers.-- Markisgreen 12:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
note that "obscurantism" is a polemical rather than descriptive term, often used against opponents on personal or ideological grounds, and accusations of incomprehensibility don't equal actual incomprehensibility.
Ehmhel
22:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)Ehmhel
It is clearly inappropriate to link to an article on "obscurantism." Ask: would Britannica have such a link? Answer: no. Reason: because they take the idea of neutrality seriously. Regardless of whether "many readers" consider Heidegger to be obscure, such a link is clearly a way of introducing non-neutrality. MHJDBS 23:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The criticism section needs revision to be more accurate and fair, such as citing its many claims, naming Heidegger's critics, and have a more neutral appoach.
1. Something from his contemporaries, maybe Cassirer. 2. Something representative from the Frankfurt School - Adorno. 3. The well-known article by Carnap. 4. Something else from the analytics - either Russell or Ayer, preferably the former. 5. I can also add some criticisms of his classical scholarship.
Is anything else essential to an encyclopaedia article? I may have forgotten something.
Second, the existing section should be ruthlessly trimmed where no appropriate cites are given. Examples:
This [1]is a link to an Amazon page, which doesn't even make the point it's supposed to be supporting.
This [2] is a link to an unsigned article on an internet Quotes cite. Not up to Wiki standards.
I'm guessing the Tom Rockmore cites should be to Heidegger's Nazism and Philosophy - but it doesn't say. And then we have a silly summary of Sein und Zeit with the comment 'citations needed'. I am of the view that citations should come first, and that this - and the other unsupported material - should go. If there is agreement, I'll prune the section to the important and supportable points. KD Tries Again 18:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC) KD
Lestrade, I enjoy entertaining you but time is short today. I know from your contributions that your German is perfectly good enough to recognize that Dasein is not to be translated as "Self". Dasein does not "find" a world, it is always already in-der-Welt-sein. And I could go on. I might mention that [Sein und Zeit] does additionally have a little bit to say about time. Anyway, if there was an appropriate reference for the summary, maybe there's be justification for it. But I don't see one. KD Tries Again 14:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC) KD
Whether silly or not, the criticisms should be presented as clearly and accurately as possible regardless of what one considers to be the faults or merits of Heidegger. What's wrong with revising the section so that criticisms have sources, are clearer, and thus potentially more convincing? Ehmhel 17:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
One can accuse anyone of politics and personal ambitions, whole television networks are based on this. I find it more rewarding to examine the arguments without presupposing a universal skepticism or hermeneutics of suspicion. Approximate if not always good sense and critical debate has been established on many points and arguments in Heidegger, there is even a whole "respectable analytic" literature on Heidegger (as well as Hegel) today (with pragmatic, transcendental, and Wittgensteinian arguments for and against). Ehmhel 18:43, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Since Lestrade's views, even if correct, have no relevance to how we write the article, does anyone disagree with my positive suggestion above or have any additions? KD Tries Again 19:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC) KD
I did what I could to make it more precise and historically accurate. The analytic criticism section is more wordy than the others. Should this be a brief portrayal of different kinds of criticisms or should each be as developed? Ehmhel 21:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Being-towards-death is fairly simple in it's proposition the the human Dasein is the only ontology aware of its "demise". It is from this proposition that Heideggers notions of Throwness/Angst/Anxiety are formulated. It is also the interstice where Phenomenology becomes misused and mistaken as Existentialism; as the latter formulated anxiety as a key concept to found its philosophy (especially Sartrean existentialism which championed choice and authenticity as products of anxiety.)– 124.179.62.108 12:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
There are now some new Photos at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Martin_Heidegger I have added an english description to the images. You'll find there:
I have no user account at the english Wikipedia so far, you can find me as user "Tischbeinahe" in the german Wikipedia. Greetings from Berlin, Tischbeinahe
Mtevfrog -- In deciding who should or should not be included in the info box, please reconsider your entirely understandable opinion, but this time taking into account these further factors:
Since Heidegger himself acknowledged a significant, years-long relationship with Kuki Shūzō and his work, this name does belong amongst the small group of students in Wikipedia's Martin Heidegger info box. -- Ooperhoofd ( talk) 19:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
After initial approval, (link was up for a week), why did you remove my article link from the WORKS ON HEIDEGGER section? Here's the link to article entitled IN DEFENSE OF MARTIN HEIDEGGER http://www.artsandopinion.com/2007_v6_n6/lewis-32.htm Artsandopinion ( talk) 16:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)Robert Lewis
I did the article on Heidegger in the german Wikipedia and would just like to point out a few things. Sorry for my awkward english – I hope you'll get the point anyways.
-- Tischbeinahe ( talk) φιλο 19:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
In the section "Heidegger and Nazism/Post-war period" there is a quote dated 1949 in which Heidegger supposedly mentions hydrogen bombs. This is strange since the first such device did not come along until 1952. RandomTool2 ( talk) 16:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Above article is basically one person's essay. It has been languishing in the articles in need of wikification since June 2007 and I am trying to help clear the backlog. Is there anything that you would like to rescue from it? I'm hoping you will know whether it is best improved, merged or just deleted. Thanks. Itsmejudith ( talk) 22:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I made on the article the following contribution:
From Zygmunt Bauman's perspective, Heidegger's remark is understood as proper [1].
So, my question is: could this be considered interpolation. If it is no interpolation, but I was simply stating the facts, I would like to see it added back to the main article. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 12:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The sections "Being and Time" and Dasein could perhaps benefit from merging, and might also perhaps, by getting to the point more quickly and then only then to background. I'm not going to touch this article myself, however.
Dasein is defined okay...A slight stab at time seems to pass adequately... There is little or nothing defining care, thrownness, falling, authenticity...Stuff I came here to read about.
Slogging through background about the relationship of Heidegger's mentors and antecedants to B&T is important stuff, I suppose, but save it for lower down and start with a highly concise description of the book. I wonder how the separate, B&T Wikipedia article is (in a non Heiddeggerian sense). Calamitybrook ( talk) 02:52, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like to bring to your attention to the fact that the article on deconstruction currently lacks a passage on Heideggers influence on the development of deconstruction. This would greatly improve the current article and the expertise of the one of the Heidegger editors familiar with this aspect of deconstructions development is therefore kindly requested. Seferin ( talk) 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? Some minor Final Fantasy character (named after him, no doubt) calls for a disambiguation page? Who's for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.167.199.34 ( talk) 05:48, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I removed the stuff about existentialism from the intro. I hope this is ok since I thought existentialism was a strange thing to mention so early in the article since it is not clear if he was or not an existentialist. I also removed mention of existential commonplaces. The term sounds odd, who is an existentialist today? Instead I said he provided some of the basics for Continental Philosophy. Lucas
The both of you should take a break from editing this page, or at least the introduction, for some time. It seems to be getting personal and less about collaborating for the benefit of the article and the community. If you both do not find it objectionable, I could read over and edit the best-case scenario versions of the introduction in each of your points of view, and then post a merged version here. Take me up on the offer, find another way to resolve the issue, or take a breather - in any case, please be more civil and good natured. -
Sam
20:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps we might agree as to some references to provide an adequate range of perspectives on the subject tied to verifiability and clear use of credible sources? I wonder as well whether one can talk about Heidegger being characterised as an existentialist without discussing the broader issues of his French reception and translations of his work into the French language. (To be direct about it, I think that is somewhat consistent with Lucas's view by implication.) Might I suggest off the top of my head Ethan Kleinberg's Generation Existential as one such source and Dominique Janicaud's Heidegger en France as another?
Let's remember that, despite the fact that Derrida had so few kind words for Sartre's work for much of his career (and there were much later extended references, including if memory serves a treatment of Antisemite and Jew in "Abraham, l'autre"), he was willing to credit accounts of his work that indicated some filiation with Sartre (sorry, I don't have any cites on hand for that one on hand, let alone any particular mastery of the details). Sartre may have been taken down a few notches in the French canon, but just about everyone continued to read him, to the point that influence may be quite understated and even a bit subliminal outside of the brighter lines drawn around the "Letter". Buffyg 22:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
As I said before, I don't love the Continental tag, but when someone uses it, I have some idea what they're talking about. It may well be that I go through the dialogue you've rehearsed every time. One gets from it a sense of breadth as the expense of referring to something that has little coherence outside of a generally shared set of references. I can live with that. As for "earlier receptions of Heidegger's work should be privileged", I go on to read that your motive was to allude to where Heidegger's work "made its first impact" (a claim that is itself debatable). I don't think this point needs to be further belaboured.
As for your remark that, "I would merely point out that while a philosopher can be strongly influenced by his contemporaries, it is somewhat more challenging to be influenced by the future." I believe Heidegger's quotation of Kleist at the conclusion of the Wisser interview speaks to this in speaking of the "coming mind": "I step back before one who is not yet here, and bow, a millennium before him, to his spirit." Apart from all the calculation as to his contemporary influence and however difficult, Heidegger evidently anticipated his future reception to take on just such a challenge.
To be frank, everything else seems to be arguing the toss. I don't concede any of your further argument, and I see no need to specify my objections. Further argument seems to me to serve no other purpose than to distract from editing, as I don't see it having any clear consequence for the entry. A number of the issues you've raised definitely need to make it to the article (is it just me, or does Dilthey make no further appearance than on list of influences?), so I'd prefer to encourage your contributions there rather than to drag out our exchange here. Buffyg 21:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
'Question re Heidegger qua existentialist': I should think (borrowing this idea from elsewhere on this page) that it is erroneous to judge the question of Heidegger and existentialism based on the actions of his French successors/imitators; rather Heidegger must have essential existialist aspects in his work, or be following a tradition. I am not sure that there is a definition of existentialism (my personal one is "issues arising out of existence") and 'existence precedes essence' is Satre, not a tradition. So to turn to the second question, Heidegger's place in a tradition, are we right to say that Kirkegaard was the first existentialist? Kirkegaard's influence on S & Z is obvious, both in the concept of Angst, but one can also see the birth of das Man, which Kirkegaard tends to express more poetically and less 'objectively' than Heidegger does. So, thus: was Heidegger influenced by the existentialist flavour of Kirkegaard? - Indubitably. I think the article should concentrate on the basic precepts/concepts of existentialism as applicable to Heidegger, stating influences if possible, but perhaps largely ignoring the question of French influences. 'Letter on Humanism', while a response to the French situation (Satre), need not be seen as a engagement with Satre's thinking. Does anyone know if Heidegger ever read Being and Nothingness? ````
The article says that there have been book burnings on his campus during nazi-time - the German article says that he stopped book burnings which is also what my fairly dim memory suggests. I can't find any source right now but is there anybody here who is sure there have been burnings or maybe even has a source? -- Kricket 14:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
btw. @ Mtevfrog: great work!
In Rudolf Otto's Heidegger: A Political Life, it states that the national day of book burning (May or June 10?) was "celebrated" at Freiburg too, and that there was nothing Heidegger could have done to stop it.
KD
This doesn't seem to have much treatment at all. First we're told that it happened, then we're told that Heidegger never went along with it. It's not really clear what's at stake in arguing either way. I'm going to hunt for some sources and would be grateful if someone else could provide more of the same and/or have a stab at revisions. Buffyg 20:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
The actual picture of Heidegger is all pixeled and without strength. If the problem is that other pictures have copyrights, I would recommend this one, wich at least has better quality: http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/tito-/Heidegger.jpg (I didn't change it myself cause I don't know how).
Heidegger wasn't exactly an atheist, it seems a bit misleading to label him as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.12.131.148 ( talk) 19:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC).
The introduction does not need to come before the early life and right after the table of contents. Its info should be condensed and put in the beginning introductory paragraph at the top and the article should begin with his life right after the contents. Afghan Historian 19:20, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, does the sentence "Philosophers are divided in their opinion . . ." belong in the article at all? Although the statement is cited, it contributes nothing to the article and isn't really a statement of fact since we haven't polled philosophers. Also, just one or two agreeing with the quote would satisfy its terms. Furthermore, the paragraph is understandable and informative without the sentence. 166.165.207.67 ( talk) 16:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
(Cut n paste from the Reference Desk, in case it might prove useful Wetman 04:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC))
You might want to begin with The Rectorate 1933-34: Facts and Thoughts, Heidegger's post-War memoir on the period, though I should caution you that this is a work of self-justification, which disguises as much as it reveals. In essence, his rectorship at Freiburg collapsed for of a variety of reasons, including good old-fashioned departmental politics, vicious and treacherous as always, no matter what regime they operate under! Beyond that, one has to take into consideration Heidegger's own political naïvete and his gross over-estimation of his importance, both in the Nazi academic world and the broader scheme of things. One also has to take into account the nature of the Nazi system itself, and its underlying theory and practice. No matter what stress was placed upon the sublime, Nazism was shaped by mediocrity, not excellence. It was the world not of the Superman, but the Supermouse.
In his memoir, Heidegger maintains that his position at Freiburg was undermined by a conspiracy, involving his academic rivals and the district student leader, Dr Gustav Scheel, who later became Reich leader of students and university lecturers, and Gauleiter of Salzburg. Heidegger certainly had opponents at Freiburg, especially in the Law Faculty, though not all were doctrinaire Nazis. The matter, though, went far beyond the confines of the University. In November 1933 the Nazis created their own structure of leadership within the whole university system, elevating Party mediocrities and time-servers to important positions in the Reich Association of German Universities. It was a clear declaration that Heidegger's bid for leadership of the German university system had falied, and that the Nazis had no real use for him, no matter his international stature. Abandoned by many of his more important colleagues at Freiburg, and snubbed by the government, Heidegger was in a personal, professional and political limbo.
There were also those in the Nazi movement, led by Erich Jaensch, his former colleague at the University of Marburg, who made every attempt to ensure that Heidegger would not be offered a leading position in Prussia or the Reich, because they did not wish him to be seen as 'the philosopher of National Socialism.' Jaensch complied a memorandum arguing against a proposal that Heidegger be appointed head of the Prussian Academy of University Lecturers. It would be against all reason, he wrote, " ...if what is possibly the most important post in the intellectual life of the nation in the weeks and months ahead were to be filled by one of the biggest scatterbrains and most eccentric cranks we have in our university system: a man about whom men who are perfectly rational, intelligent and loyal to the new state argue among themselves as to which side of the dividing line between sanity and mental illness he is on." And this on one of the best philosophical minds Germany produced in the whole of the twentieth century! Against this background it is no great surprise that his rectorship failed. He finally resigned in April 1934, not February, as he says in Facts and Thoughts. You will find much more detail on this whole affair in Part Three of Martin Heidegger: A Political Life by Hugo Ott. Clio the Muse 00:26, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The very fact that Holzwege is translated as Off the Beaten Track instead of Paths Through the Woods indicates that translations of Heidegger's works into English must be regarded as doubtful and useless. Lestrade 14:17, 12 July 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
I think Heidegger is considered to be obscurantist by many readers.-- Markisgreen 12:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
note that "obscurantism" is a polemical rather than descriptive term, often used against opponents on personal or ideological grounds, and accusations of incomprehensibility don't equal actual incomprehensibility.
Ehmhel
22:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)Ehmhel
It is clearly inappropriate to link to an article on "obscurantism." Ask: would Britannica have such a link? Answer: no. Reason: because they take the idea of neutrality seriously. Regardless of whether "many readers" consider Heidegger to be obscure, such a link is clearly a way of introducing non-neutrality. MHJDBS 23:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The criticism section needs revision to be more accurate and fair, such as citing its many claims, naming Heidegger's critics, and have a more neutral appoach.
1. Something from his contemporaries, maybe Cassirer. 2. Something representative from the Frankfurt School - Adorno. 3. The well-known article by Carnap. 4. Something else from the analytics - either Russell or Ayer, preferably the former. 5. I can also add some criticisms of his classical scholarship.
Is anything else essential to an encyclopaedia article? I may have forgotten something.
Second, the existing section should be ruthlessly trimmed where no appropriate cites are given. Examples:
This [1]is a link to an Amazon page, which doesn't even make the point it's supposed to be supporting.
This [2] is a link to an unsigned article on an internet Quotes cite. Not up to Wiki standards.
I'm guessing the Tom Rockmore cites should be to Heidegger's Nazism and Philosophy - but it doesn't say. And then we have a silly summary of Sein und Zeit with the comment 'citations needed'. I am of the view that citations should come first, and that this - and the other unsupported material - should go. If there is agreement, I'll prune the section to the important and supportable points. KD Tries Again 18:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC) KD
Lestrade, I enjoy entertaining you but time is short today. I know from your contributions that your German is perfectly good enough to recognize that Dasein is not to be translated as "Self". Dasein does not "find" a world, it is always already in-der-Welt-sein. And I could go on. I might mention that [Sein und Zeit] does additionally have a little bit to say about time. Anyway, if there was an appropriate reference for the summary, maybe there's be justification for it. But I don't see one. KD Tries Again 14:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC) KD
Whether silly or not, the criticisms should be presented as clearly and accurately as possible regardless of what one considers to be the faults or merits of Heidegger. What's wrong with revising the section so that criticisms have sources, are clearer, and thus potentially more convincing? Ehmhel 17:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
One can accuse anyone of politics and personal ambitions, whole television networks are based on this. I find it more rewarding to examine the arguments without presupposing a universal skepticism or hermeneutics of suspicion. Approximate if not always good sense and critical debate has been established on many points and arguments in Heidegger, there is even a whole "respectable analytic" literature on Heidegger (as well as Hegel) today (with pragmatic, transcendental, and Wittgensteinian arguments for and against). Ehmhel 18:43, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Since Lestrade's views, even if correct, have no relevance to how we write the article, does anyone disagree with my positive suggestion above or have any additions? KD Tries Again 19:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC) KD
I did what I could to make it more precise and historically accurate. The analytic criticism section is more wordy than the others. Should this be a brief portrayal of different kinds of criticisms or should each be as developed? Ehmhel 21:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Being-towards-death is fairly simple in it's proposition the the human Dasein is the only ontology aware of its "demise". It is from this proposition that Heideggers notions of Throwness/Angst/Anxiety are formulated. It is also the interstice where Phenomenology becomes misused and mistaken as Existentialism; as the latter formulated anxiety as a key concept to found its philosophy (especially Sartrean existentialism which championed choice and authenticity as products of anxiety.)– 124.179.62.108 12:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
There are now some new Photos at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Martin_Heidegger I have added an english description to the images. You'll find there:
I have no user account at the english Wikipedia so far, you can find me as user "Tischbeinahe" in the german Wikipedia. Greetings from Berlin, Tischbeinahe
Mtevfrog -- In deciding who should or should not be included in the info box, please reconsider your entirely understandable opinion, but this time taking into account these further factors:
Since Heidegger himself acknowledged a significant, years-long relationship with Kuki Shūzō and his work, this name does belong amongst the small group of students in Wikipedia's Martin Heidegger info box. -- Ooperhoofd ( talk) 19:35, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
After initial approval, (link was up for a week), why did you remove my article link from the WORKS ON HEIDEGGER section? Here's the link to article entitled IN DEFENSE OF MARTIN HEIDEGGER http://www.artsandopinion.com/2007_v6_n6/lewis-32.htm Artsandopinion ( talk) 16:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)Robert Lewis
I did the article on Heidegger in the german Wikipedia and would just like to point out a few things. Sorry for my awkward english – I hope you'll get the point anyways.
-- Tischbeinahe ( talk) φιλο 19:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
In the section "Heidegger and Nazism/Post-war period" there is a quote dated 1949 in which Heidegger supposedly mentions hydrogen bombs. This is strange since the first such device did not come along until 1952. RandomTool2 ( talk) 16:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Above article is basically one person's essay. It has been languishing in the articles in need of wikification since June 2007 and I am trying to help clear the backlog. Is there anything that you would like to rescue from it? I'm hoping you will know whether it is best improved, merged or just deleted. Thanks. Itsmejudith ( talk) 22:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I made on the article the following contribution:
From Zygmunt Bauman's perspective, Heidegger's remark is understood as proper [1].
So, my question is: could this be considered interpolation. If it is no interpolation, but I was simply stating the facts, I would like to see it added back to the main article. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 12:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The sections "Being and Time" and Dasein could perhaps benefit from merging, and might also perhaps, by getting to the point more quickly and then only then to background. I'm not going to touch this article myself, however.
Dasein is defined okay...A slight stab at time seems to pass adequately... There is little or nothing defining care, thrownness, falling, authenticity...Stuff I came here to read about.
Slogging through background about the relationship of Heidegger's mentors and antecedants to B&T is important stuff, I suppose, but save it for lower down and start with a highly concise description of the book. I wonder how the separate, B&T Wikipedia article is (in a non Heiddeggerian sense). Calamitybrook ( talk) 02:52, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like to bring to your attention to the fact that the article on deconstruction currently lacks a passage on Heideggers influence on the development of deconstruction. This would greatly improve the current article and the expertise of the one of the Heidegger editors familiar with this aspect of deconstructions development is therefore kindly requested. Seferin ( talk) 19:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? Some minor Final Fantasy character (named after him, no doubt) calls for a disambiguation page? Who's for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.167.199.34 ( talk) 05:48, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
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