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I don't think the article deserves speedy deletion. The reason given seems to be that I called the subject a "Russophobe". As I explained in my last edit, this was a spelling mistake. I meant to write "Russophone", which has a completely different meaning, and obviously makes more sense when one reads the article.
I think the subject is notable - a human rights activist who has been cited by various NGOs. No doubt the subject will be controversial, but the article will evolve as more contributions are made and as I pad it out.
The lad's name is Mark Sirők, not Siryk. At least have the common decency to spell names right. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 13:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
This is English language Wikipedia, not Estonian Wikipedia. Please feel free to create an Estonian version of the article with the Estonian version of his name. Shotlandiya ( talk) 15:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
While looking for the court's ruling, I happened to find a document citing page 22 of it. I never knew how much Sirők had to suffer when, supposedly, he was forced by police to read a history textbook written by Mart Laar for three hours. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 10:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
The "an anti-racism campaigner, human rights ... " part obviously, as there isn't a single source, reliable or otherwise to support that. radek ( talk) 23:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Re: [1]. Sourced to what? is an anti-racism campaigner, human rights - sourced to nothing alleged - sourced to nothing However, he was found not guilty. - sourced to nothing Sirők suffers from hemophilia. - sourced to "Website of those opposed to the movement of the Bronze Soldier", a source which is sooooo not in the Reliable Source category, never mind the conflict of interest. Please address these, um, criticism/stating the obvious, before restoring the material next time. radek ( talk) 08:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Estonia isn't the centre of the universe. In Germany it's illegal to display the swastika. We have it on Wikipedia. Take it to Estonian language Wikipedia if you're so concerned. It's just a stupid excuse from you to try and make this poor human rights campaigner look like a Kremlin stooge. Shotlandiya ( talk) 21:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I have been unable to figure out Sirők's ethnic identity. Accordingly, I think he can not be categorised as being known as a member of ethnic minority. Should Category:Ethnic minorities be removed as misleading?
Possible candidates appear to be Estonian, Russian, and Hungarian. Gene-wise, he's probably got ancestors of multiple ethnic groups -- as most Estonians do --, but naturally, this is only a minor factor in ethnic self-identification. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 11:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
What is the nationality of Mark Sirők? Do he have Russian, Estonian or non-citizen passport? Do he prefer ethnic group "Russian Estonian" or just "Russian"/"Estonian"? Peltimikko ( talk) 11:24, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There is no need to spell his name with the Hungarian letter. Siryk is an English transliteration of the name, Sirõk with a tilde over the o is the normal Estonian transliteration. Why use the Hungarian letter if there is no Hungarian connection? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.100.66.100 ( talk) 09:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Where is Sirők on the picture? I can't find him; there are too many people. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 08:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
FIDH Latvia is an organisation with close connection to Russian radicals in Latvia, according to available sources. It would be very inappropriate to present it as a reliable source. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 11:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
If that's the case then it would be worth mentioning that on the FIDH page itself, but it would need to be properly sourced (i.e, more than just some Estonian gibberish). I suspect you only think this is the case because they portray Siryk in a good light!
Incidently, as of 19:34 on Thursday the 11th June (UK time) I believe we have reached a compromise on this article - this version is probably as good as it gets, guys. So let's leave it for a moment and give the edit warring a break.
To the recent arguments on Thatcher's talk page—I request again, this applies to everyone, not just those I editorially disagree with, that we keep content disputes in article talk. If unresolvable, then a RfC is the next step, not complaining and posting diffs for admins and making derisive remarks over reputable disagreements over the aims and roles of organizations. Where the Baltics are concerned, The International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) certainly does function as a partisan advocacy group as its Latvian member, for example, is the afore-mentioned political party—BTW, Ždanoka is prohibited from Latvian elective office because, among other actions, she supported the continuation of Soviet power over Latvia. Support violent suppression of human rights, then name yourself an organization protecting human rights. That's about as partisan as you can get. PētersV TALK 14:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think bronze-soldier.com is a not reliable source. So, it should not use at all in this article. Who are the makers of website? Organisation? Why is it not in Russian and/or Estonian? Seems the website has been used as a part of the information war for a third-party audience, or any other suggestions? Peltimikko ( talk) 14:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I would agree it's not a reliable source compared to say, BBC, etc, but it is obviously a big page for ethnic Russians who face discrimination and persecution from the pro-Nazi regime in Estonia. Anything we use from it could be prefaced with the caveat that it comes from a biased source, in the same way that anything from the Estonian media should come with a caution that it comes from a country with a record of discrimination, persecution and human rights abuses against ethnic minorities. Shotlandiya ( talk) 18:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
first of all it needs to be established according to whom the subject is a " Victim_of_Estonian_political_repression". For second its still an opinion not a fact. And therefore creating such a category and adding the subject into it is a violation of WP:NPOV.-- Termer ( talk) 19:31, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I have moved this article to Mark Sirõk, as I have found no indications that his name is properly spelled with ő (not an Estonian letter); more likely is that ő and õ were confused when writing [2] the article. The two letters can sometimes look near-indistinguishable in certain fonts/styles (indeed, I have seen that the slightly more common "õ" is often substituted for the unique "ő" in Hungarian online parlance). The (working) Estonian sources provided in the article confirm the "õ" spelling. If there are any objections, please source them. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 16:14, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I don't think the article deserves speedy deletion. The reason given seems to be that I called the subject a "Russophobe". As I explained in my last edit, this was a spelling mistake. I meant to write "Russophone", which has a completely different meaning, and obviously makes more sense when one reads the article.
I think the subject is notable - a human rights activist who has been cited by various NGOs. No doubt the subject will be controversial, but the article will evolve as more contributions are made and as I pad it out.
The lad's name is Mark Sirők, not Siryk. At least have the common decency to spell names right. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 13:27, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
This is English language Wikipedia, not Estonian Wikipedia. Please feel free to create an Estonian version of the article with the Estonian version of his name. Shotlandiya ( talk) 15:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
While looking for the court's ruling, I happened to find a document citing page 22 of it. I never knew how much Sirők had to suffer when, supposedly, he was forced by police to read a history textbook written by Mart Laar for three hours. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 10:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
The "an anti-racism campaigner, human rights ... " part obviously, as there isn't a single source, reliable or otherwise to support that. radek ( talk) 23:32, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Re: [1]. Sourced to what? is an anti-racism campaigner, human rights - sourced to nothing alleged - sourced to nothing However, he was found not guilty. - sourced to nothing Sirők suffers from hemophilia. - sourced to "Website of those opposed to the movement of the Bronze Soldier", a source which is sooooo not in the Reliable Source category, never mind the conflict of interest. Please address these, um, criticism/stating the obvious, before restoring the material next time. radek ( talk) 08:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Estonia isn't the centre of the universe. In Germany it's illegal to display the swastika. We have it on Wikipedia. Take it to Estonian language Wikipedia if you're so concerned. It's just a stupid excuse from you to try and make this poor human rights campaigner look like a Kremlin stooge. Shotlandiya ( talk) 21:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
I have been unable to figure out Sirők's ethnic identity. Accordingly, I think he can not be categorised as being known as a member of ethnic minority. Should Category:Ethnic minorities be removed as misleading?
Possible candidates appear to be Estonian, Russian, and Hungarian. Gene-wise, he's probably got ancestors of multiple ethnic groups -- as most Estonians do --, but naturally, this is only a minor factor in ethnic self-identification. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 11:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
What is the nationality of Mark Sirők? Do he have Russian, Estonian or non-citizen passport? Do he prefer ethnic group "Russian Estonian" or just "Russian"/"Estonian"? Peltimikko ( talk) 11:24, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
There is no need to spell his name with the Hungarian letter. Siryk is an English transliteration of the name, Sirõk with a tilde over the o is the normal Estonian transliteration. Why use the Hungarian letter if there is no Hungarian connection? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.100.66.100 ( talk) 09:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Where is Sirők on the picture? I can't find him; there are too many people. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 08:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
FIDH Latvia is an organisation with close connection to Russian radicals in Latvia, according to available sources. It would be very inappropriate to present it as a reliable source. Διγουρεν Εμπρος! 11:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
If that's the case then it would be worth mentioning that on the FIDH page itself, but it would need to be properly sourced (i.e, more than just some Estonian gibberish). I suspect you only think this is the case because they portray Siryk in a good light!
Incidently, as of 19:34 on Thursday the 11th June (UK time) I believe we have reached a compromise on this article - this version is probably as good as it gets, guys. So let's leave it for a moment and give the edit warring a break.
To the recent arguments on Thatcher's talk page—I request again, this applies to everyone, not just those I editorially disagree with, that we keep content disputes in article talk. If unresolvable, then a RfC is the next step, not complaining and posting diffs for admins and making derisive remarks over reputable disagreements over the aims and roles of organizations. Where the Baltics are concerned, The International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) certainly does function as a partisan advocacy group as its Latvian member, for example, is the afore-mentioned political party—BTW, Ždanoka is prohibited from Latvian elective office because, among other actions, she supported the continuation of Soviet power over Latvia. Support violent suppression of human rights, then name yourself an organization protecting human rights. That's about as partisan as you can get. PētersV TALK 14:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think bronze-soldier.com is a not reliable source. So, it should not use at all in this article. Who are the makers of website? Organisation? Why is it not in Russian and/or Estonian? Seems the website has been used as a part of the information war for a third-party audience, or any other suggestions? Peltimikko ( talk) 14:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I would agree it's not a reliable source compared to say, BBC, etc, but it is obviously a big page for ethnic Russians who face discrimination and persecution from the pro-Nazi regime in Estonia. Anything we use from it could be prefaced with the caveat that it comes from a biased source, in the same way that anything from the Estonian media should come with a caution that it comes from a country with a record of discrimination, persecution and human rights abuses against ethnic minorities. Shotlandiya ( talk) 18:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
first of all it needs to be established according to whom the subject is a " Victim_of_Estonian_political_repression". For second its still an opinion not a fact. And therefore creating such a category and adding the subject into it is a violation of WP:NPOV.-- Termer ( talk) 19:31, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I have moved this article to Mark Sirõk, as I have found no indications that his name is properly spelled with ő (not an Estonian letter); more likely is that ő and õ were confused when writing [2] the article. The two letters can sometimes look near-indistinguishable in certain fonts/styles (indeed, I have seen that the slightly more common "õ" is often substituted for the unique "ő" in Hungarian online parlance). The (working) Estonian sources provided in the article confirm the "õ" spelling. If there are any objections, please source them. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen ( talk) 16:14, 14 August 2012 (UTC)