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The factual accuracy of this article has been question by an editor purporting to be Mark Paredes. I'm adding this material, just to make sure the page exists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sphilbrick ( talk • contribs) 20:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Mark Paredes as best as I can tell is a person of both European and African descent who was not baptized until the 1978 revelation on the priesthood due to his LDS mothers views. I actually am not sure that he is ethnically Jewish, but have even more doubt that he is racially Jewish.
This http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/blacks_and_mormons_the_priesthood_ban_brigham_and_bruce posting at the Jewish Journal by Paredes makes mention to his post-1978 baptism. It actually is unclear whether Paredes is the "biracial son" mentioned, but what is clear is that he was never religiously a Jew (and it is unclear if he was ever in any other way a Jew) so it really does not make sense to class him as a "convert from Judaism to Mormonism". John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:49, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
The notability of the subject of this entry is questionable. Wikipedia's guidelines with respect to notability of a person suggest that Mark Paredes is not notable enough nor of general interest enough to warrant his own Wikipedia entry. This entry should therefore be deleted. AugustoPinochet12345 ( talk) 23:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)AugustoPinochet12345
If this stuff needs to be examined for BLP implications, then it must be removed while that discussion to determine consensus takes place. This is standard. __ E L A Q U E A T E 16:22, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
the Abrahamic God utterly condemns the Democratic Party and all that it stands foris bordering on patent nonsense. It's certainly not in the sources cited, which include some blogs, primary sources, articles that don't even mention the subject, and aren't appropriate in any case. The original arguments added regarding how to best be an
advocate for relations between Mormons and Jewswere simply not found in the sources. Pure original editorial linked to sources that didn't support it. __ E L A Q U E A T E 17:42, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
"Implied" is more supported by the references than the weaker "seemed to imply":
It's clear that these sources don't use the watered down "seemed to", or any equivalent. It's also clear that, except for the more gentle wording from Patheos & Mormon Matters, we are reasonably justified, based on these sources, to just say "said" instead of "implied". I'm fine with "implied" for now, especially since that's how Paredes self-characterised his comments in his seemingly non-apology apology, but any attempt for even weaker wording (such as the "seemed to") smacks of whitewashing and weasel wording. We report what reliable sources say, not the more flattering wording which subjects of WP articles, those close to them, and their fans might prefer. — Asterisk * Splat → 01:20, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
The wording "support for abortion rights, gay marriage and the Nevada gaming industry" keeps being added unnecessarily to the article. Paredes personally clarifies what his concerns are in his seemingly non-apology apology: "[a]ny criticism I had of Senator Reid was based on his actions (e.g., defense of the gaming industry, advocacy of a certain social agenda), not his political affiliation". This wording is included verbatim in the quote from the AP article.
Additionally the sources used in the article do not indicate that these three items (abortion, gay marriage, & gaming) are the primary items of interest and conflict around the Paredes article: instead it was the implication that Paredes could stand in judgment on Reid's worthiness, perpetuating the myth of single party support by members of the LDS Church, and implying that it is questionable for members in good standing who are serious about their religion to be members of the Democratic party, especially if they are elected officials. The references that do discuss Reid's positions and history on abortion, gay marriage and gaming demonstrate that Reid's positions are far more nuanced than can be properly summarised in this Wikipedia article.
Instead of a poor summary here, adequate sources have been provided in the article, where readers can find more details. Readers can also go to Reid's own Wikipedia article for more details about his positions and record. — Asterisk * Splat → 15:51, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
It's not clear why the opinionated editor has taken such an interest in the Paredes article. Paredes has written more than 240 essays for the Jewish Journal, and has blogged as a Mormon bishop for 18 months. Unless the editor has a personal disagreement with Paredes's views, it's not clear why he dedicates his time to this project.
The statement "High level LDS Church leaders have made note of this type of conflict, and have counseled against it" is an editorial comment, and has no place in a factual bio. No LDS Church leader has counseled members not to point out other members' public disagreements with LDS Church teaching.
Given that Paredes has not criticized conservative Democrats, or Mormon politicians who do not support gay marriage, abortion and the Nevada gaming industry, it is only fair to include this point in the body of the bio. Look at it this way: If Reid did not support these positions, it's highly unlikely that Paredes would have criticized him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.50.126.207 ( talk • contribs) 22:53, 21 January 2015
This time I added language clarifying that it is Paredes, not Wikipedia, who believes that Reid supports abortion rights, the gambling industry, and gay marriage. That seems an acceptable compromise to me. After all, if the basis of his attack is that Reid is using his senior position in the Democratic Party to promote an anti-Mormon agenda, it does a disservice to Paredes to gut the elements of that agenda and try to bury them in a footnote. Paredes clearly attacked Reid in the article not becaue of his party affiliation, but because of his perceived support for those anti-Mormon position (at least in Paredes's mind). Mark writes a religion blog, not a political one.
Although the LDS Church is politically neutral, members clearly do not have to be. The initial wording of the sentence implied that Paredes's sin was to take a public partisan stance, which was clearly not the case. The controversy arose from the perception that he was invoking his episcopal authority to slam Reid, not that he as a member of the LDS Church had expressed a political opinion.
If the other contributor insists on including the opinion sentence about Elder Oaks's statement, then it is only fair to include references to talks from other GAs slamming abortion, gay marriage and gambling. This sentence expressed an opinion about an apostle's talk that has no place in a bio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.50.126.207 ( talk) 06:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
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I don't believe that a change of living location or currently non activity with Jewish affairs warrants removal of the entire controversy section and have re-added it in. Maybe it could be shortened a bit... and some of it seems quite notable. Sethie ( talk) 03:08, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mark Paredes article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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The factual accuracy of this article has been question by an editor purporting to be Mark Paredes. I'm adding this material, just to make sure the page exists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sphilbrick ( talk • contribs) 20:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Mark Paredes as best as I can tell is a person of both European and African descent who was not baptized until the 1978 revelation on the priesthood due to his LDS mothers views. I actually am not sure that he is ethnically Jewish, but have even more doubt that he is racially Jewish.
This http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/blacks_and_mormons_the_priesthood_ban_brigham_and_bruce posting at the Jewish Journal by Paredes makes mention to his post-1978 baptism. It actually is unclear whether Paredes is the "biracial son" mentioned, but what is clear is that he was never religiously a Jew (and it is unclear if he was ever in any other way a Jew) so it really does not make sense to class him as a "convert from Judaism to Mormonism". John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:49, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
The notability of the subject of this entry is questionable. Wikipedia's guidelines with respect to notability of a person suggest that Mark Paredes is not notable enough nor of general interest enough to warrant his own Wikipedia entry. This entry should therefore be deleted. AugustoPinochet12345 ( talk) 23:23, 6 November 2014 (UTC)AugustoPinochet12345
If this stuff needs to be examined for BLP implications, then it must be removed while that discussion to determine consensus takes place. This is standard. __ E L A Q U E A T E 16:22, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
the Abrahamic God utterly condemns the Democratic Party and all that it stands foris bordering on patent nonsense. It's certainly not in the sources cited, which include some blogs, primary sources, articles that don't even mention the subject, and aren't appropriate in any case. The original arguments added regarding how to best be an
advocate for relations between Mormons and Jewswere simply not found in the sources. Pure original editorial linked to sources that didn't support it. __ E L A Q U E A T E 17:42, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
"Implied" is more supported by the references than the weaker "seemed to imply":
It's clear that these sources don't use the watered down "seemed to", or any equivalent. It's also clear that, except for the more gentle wording from Patheos & Mormon Matters, we are reasonably justified, based on these sources, to just say "said" instead of "implied". I'm fine with "implied" for now, especially since that's how Paredes self-characterised his comments in his seemingly non-apology apology, but any attempt for even weaker wording (such as the "seemed to") smacks of whitewashing and weasel wording. We report what reliable sources say, not the more flattering wording which subjects of WP articles, those close to them, and their fans might prefer. — Asterisk * Splat → 01:20, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
The wording "support for abortion rights, gay marriage and the Nevada gaming industry" keeps being added unnecessarily to the article. Paredes personally clarifies what his concerns are in his seemingly non-apology apology: "[a]ny criticism I had of Senator Reid was based on his actions (e.g., defense of the gaming industry, advocacy of a certain social agenda), not his political affiliation". This wording is included verbatim in the quote from the AP article.
Additionally the sources used in the article do not indicate that these three items (abortion, gay marriage, & gaming) are the primary items of interest and conflict around the Paredes article: instead it was the implication that Paredes could stand in judgment on Reid's worthiness, perpetuating the myth of single party support by members of the LDS Church, and implying that it is questionable for members in good standing who are serious about their religion to be members of the Democratic party, especially if they are elected officials. The references that do discuss Reid's positions and history on abortion, gay marriage and gaming demonstrate that Reid's positions are far more nuanced than can be properly summarised in this Wikipedia article.
Instead of a poor summary here, adequate sources have been provided in the article, where readers can find more details. Readers can also go to Reid's own Wikipedia article for more details about his positions and record. — Asterisk * Splat → 15:51, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
It's not clear why the opinionated editor has taken such an interest in the Paredes article. Paredes has written more than 240 essays for the Jewish Journal, and has blogged as a Mormon bishop for 18 months. Unless the editor has a personal disagreement with Paredes's views, it's not clear why he dedicates his time to this project.
The statement "High level LDS Church leaders have made note of this type of conflict, and have counseled against it" is an editorial comment, and has no place in a factual bio. No LDS Church leader has counseled members not to point out other members' public disagreements with LDS Church teaching.
Given that Paredes has not criticized conservative Democrats, or Mormon politicians who do not support gay marriage, abortion and the Nevada gaming industry, it is only fair to include this point in the body of the bio. Look at it this way: If Reid did not support these positions, it's highly unlikely that Paredes would have criticized him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.50.126.207 ( talk • contribs) 22:53, 21 January 2015
This time I added language clarifying that it is Paredes, not Wikipedia, who believes that Reid supports abortion rights, the gambling industry, and gay marriage. That seems an acceptable compromise to me. After all, if the basis of his attack is that Reid is using his senior position in the Democratic Party to promote an anti-Mormon agenda, it does a disservice to Paredes to gut the elements of that agenda and try to bury them in a footnote. Paredes clearly attacked Reid in the article not becaue of his party affiliation, but because of his perceived support for those anti-Mormon position (at least in Paredes's mind). Mark writes a religion blog, not a political one.
Although the LDS Church is politically neutral, members clearly do not have to be. The initial wording of the sentence implied that Paredes's sin was to take a public partisan stance, which was clearly not the case. The controversy arose from the perception that he was invoking his episcopal authority to slam Reid, not that he as a member of the LDS Church had expressed a political opinion.
If the other contributor insists on including the opinion sentence about Elder Oaks's statement, then it is only fair to include references to talks from other GAs slamming abortion, gay marriage and gambling. This sentence expressed an opinion about an apostle's talk that has no place in a bio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.50.126.207 ( talk) 06:30, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mark Paredes. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:09, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
I don't believe that a change of living location or currently non activity with Jewish affairs warrants removal of the entire controversy section and have re-added it in. Maybe it could be shortened a bit... and some of it seems quite notable. Sethie ( talk) 03:08, 19 April 2018 (UTC)