GA nomination successful following prompt improvements to page
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Every release date except for the original Wii distribution is missing sources (I can't see references attributed to them within article prose)
I could only find a reliable source for the European release dates. The rest are corroborated through other sites which I can't use per
WP:VG/S. Thankfully sourcing release dates aren't really a requisite for VG GAs or FAs, otherwise the impossibility would force us to omit them. ♦
jaguar10:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
I've never done this across the 70 or so video game GAs I've written, nor have I seen exact release dates being sourced elsewhere. I understand your point regarding verifiability but if all articles had to abide by this edict then the vast majority of articles wouldn't be able to include release dates. I can't find any sources covering the non-European release dates and I can't be willing to remove them. If you prefer I can seek input from WPVG. ♦
jaguar21:09, 17 July 2021 (UTC)reply
No citations for the directors, producers, programmers, artists, or composers either? I'm worried about that.
Starting three consecutive sentences with "the game" feels repetitive
I've replaced a couple of instances with "Mario & Sonic". I think I just wanted to avoid using the full title! ♦
jaguar10:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
"Although it sold well, the game received mostly mixed from critics"..... contrary to what the use of "although" implies, how many copies a game sold has nothing to do with whether critics liked it
"citing its gameplay as underwhelming ." has a stray space after "underwhelming", and "citing" doesn't read very well in this instance. I'd go with "feeling" or perhaps "criticising".
For counts with multiple digits, you can use numbers, meaning "eighteen" from "eighteen more from both franchises" can be 18 (which is consistent with the subsequent uses of 30 and 57)
For "Unlike its predecessor", let's specify how this refers to Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games as opposed to the original Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Don't assume all readers are familiar with Mario/Sonic characters; "their respective antagonists" should be mentioned by name (
Bowser and
Doctor Eggman)
I'll get to "Development and release" next (which looks like the best place within prose to cite release dates in order to avoid cluttering the infobox).
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
01:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)reply
I did a minor linking fix for this and the previous section with Sonic the character vs. the franchise
Good news: I found
twolinks you can use for a Japan release dates for both consoles (and yes Amazon is fine for non-contentious claims like formats and when something was distributed). While it might not be the same dates you listed, these are better than having nothing. There's also an
IGN piece for Valentine's Day 2012 on the 3DS which is corroborated
theselinks (and the latter gives 10 Feb for Europe, not the 9th). As for Australia, I unfortunately could only find any details for that country in fansites and Wikipedia mirrors, and they seem to have been pulled out of nowhere. Just scratch those while keeping in Europe, Japan, and North America.
Thank you. I considered using Amazon but I thought Wikipedia shunned it. It's better than nothing. I've sourced the rest and removed Australia's release dates - couldn't find anything on them beyond fansites either... ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
This section would be a good place to list people who worked on the music, programming, artwork, etc., especially for citing them outside of infobox
Are any details known on when production started/ended?
Nothing on that sadly. It's one of those games where very little exists on its development process, mostly because it was a money-generating sequel. ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Per WP:REPCITE, you don't need to use the same citation more than once in a row per paragraph, which means the second paragraph can just have
this at the end of "licensed by the International Olympic Committee through exclusive licensee International Sports Multimedia".
I've added another sentence in between these two (the list of key people who worked on the game), so this shouldn't be an issue now. ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Almost at the end! My next batch of comments will most likely be the last. One thing I will say in advance is that I recommend moving "sales" up to here from "reception". Not only is it a super-short subsection with literally just one sentence (nowhere near enough to warrant a subheading), but copies sold are (as I've mentioned before) a separate matter from whether critics liked it.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
01:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Thank you Snuggums for your thorough review and patience. I've been on holiday for the past four days and have just got back so now I'm ready to tackle the rest in a prompt fashion. Good point regarding the sales subsection, I've merged it into development and release. One thing I must mention is that I don't know why the reception table isn't displaying scores from the last three publications. It seems that it won't register non-entries found in the
video game reviews template. I will keep looking into it. ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Reception
Both
Metacriticlinks say "mixed or average" reviews, not "mixed to positive".
Since "surmised" is another way of saying "guessed", it doesn't feel like the best verb when this instead is a reviewer's opinion, and let's specify that the "underwhelming" comment pertains to playing the game by oneself as opposed to with other people.
"the game's overall similarity" should note that this is similarity to the prior two Mario & Sonic games (it otherwise looks like an incomplete thought)
I'm not sure "meaningful" from "lack of meaningful difficulty" is the best tone. Furthermore,
difficulty (or lack thereof) isn't even something I can find in the attributed ref.
Removed and replaced with "lamented on the game's overall lack of new content and predictability". I must have mixed it with another review. ♦
jaguar13:23, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
The use of "regretted" feels off when that pertains to something one wishes they did/didn't do. A better term would be "complained" in order to avoid repetition of things like "lamented".
Your use of quotation marks for "charm" is deceptive when
that was was nowhere to be found in Digital Spy, and
IGN only uses "elevating" in present tense, not past tense as used in this page's prose. Additionally, the use of "noted" for "noted that part of its 'charm' was" can come off as treating someone's opinion like a fact.
Removed the quotation marks from 'elevated' and replaced 'charm' with 'appeal', which is reflected in the review. Well spotted and I also replaced 'noted' with 'felt'. ♦
jaguar13:23, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Similarly,
"fare better" is used, not "fared better". There's also no mention of 3DS visuals in that URL.
See my previous comment on moving the "sales" (which you still haven't done yet despite your above comment; I'm guessing you forgot to publish that change).
The citation template won't allow you to insert italics when the names of the websites and publishers are in work/publisher fields. They are all in the correct fields anyway. ♦
jaguar13:28, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Overall
Prose: Some work needs to be done
Referencing: Not all content is properly attributed, and some citation formatting should be corrected
Coverage: Are any 3DS sale figures known?
Neutrality: I'm skeptical of the "meaningful difficulty" part and a use of "noted"
Stability: Looks good
Media: Both images have good FUR's
Verdict: Starting now, I'm putting the nomination on hold for seven days. That should be enough time to address my remaining comments.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
22:59, 30 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Of course,
Jaguar. Just one last thing: you'll need to add a ref for when the sequel Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games came out, whether in the lead or article body.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
14:55, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA nomination successful following prompt improvements to page
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Every release date except for the original Wii distribution is missing sources (I can't see references attributed to them within article prose)
I could only find a reliable source for the European release dates. The rest are corroborated through other sites which I can't use per
WP:VG/S. Thankfully sourcing release dates aren't really a requisite for VG GAs or FAs, otherwise the impossibility would force us to omit them. ♦
jaguar10:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
I've never done this across the 70 or so video game GAs I've written, nor have I seen exact release dates being sourced elsewhere. I understand your point regarding verifiability but if all articles had to abide by this edict then the vast majority of articles wouldn't be able to include release dates. I can't find any sources covering the non-European release dates and I can't be willing to remove them. If you prefer I can seek input from WPVG. ♦
jaguar21:09, 17 July 2021 (UTC)reply
No citations for the directors, producers, programmers, artists, or composers either? I'm worried about that.
Starting three consecutive sentences with "the game" feels repetitive
I've replaced a couple of instances with "Mario & Sonic". I think I just wanted to avoid using the full title! ♦
jaguar10:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
"Although it sold well, the game received mostly mixed from critics"..... contrary to what the use of "although" implies, how many copies a game sold has nothing to do with whether critics liked it
"citing its gameplay as underwhelming ." has a stray space after "underwhelming", and "citing" doesn't read very well in this instance. I'd go with "feeling" or perhaps "criticising".
For counts with multiple digits, you can use numbers, meaning "eighteen" from "eighteen more from both franchises" can be 18 (which is consistent with the subsequent uses of 30 and 57)
For "Unlike its predecessor", let's specify how this refers to Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games as opposed to the original Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Don't assume all readers are familiar with Mario/Sonic characters; "their respective antagonists" should be mentioned by name (
Bowser and
Doctor Eggman)
I'll get to "Development and release" next (which looks like the best place within prose to cite release dates in order to avoid cluttering the infobox).
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
01:22, 13 July 2021 (UTC)reply
I did a minor linking fix for this and the previous section with Sonic the character vs. the franchise
Good news: I found
twolinks you can use for a Japan release dates for both consoles (and yes Amazon is fine for non-contentious claims like formats and when something was distributed). While it might not be the same dates you listed, these are better than having nothing. There's also an
IGN piece for Valentine's Day 2012 on the 3DS which is corroborated
theselinks (and the latter gives 10 Feb for Europe, not the 9th). As for Australia, I unfortunately could only find any details for that country in fansites and Wikipedia mirrors, and they seem to have been pulled out of nowhere. Just scratch those while keeping in Europe, Japan, and North America.
Thank you. I considered using Amazon but I thought Wikipedia shunned it. It's better than nothing. I've sourced the rest and removed Australia's release dates - couldn't find anything on them beyond fansites either... ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
This section would be a good place to list people who worked on the music, programming, artwork, etc., especially for citing them outside of infobox
Are any details known on when production started/ended?
Nothing on that sadly. It's one of those games where very little exists on its development process, mostly because it was a money-generating sequel. ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Per WP:REPCITE, you don't need to use the same citation more than once in a row per paragraph, which means the second paragraph can just have
this at the end of "licensed by the International Olympic Committee through exclusive licensee International Sports Multimedia".
I've added another sentence in between these two (the list of key people who worked on the game), so this shouldn't be an issue now. ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Almost at the end! My next batch of comments will most likely be the last. One thing I will say in advance is that I recommend moving "sales" up to here from "reception". Not only is it a super-short subsection with literally just one sentence (nowhere near enough to warrant a subheading), but copies sold are (as I've mentioned before) a separate matter from whether critics liked it.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
01:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Thank you Snuggums for your thorough review and patience. I've been on holiday for the past four days and have just got back so now I'm ready to tackle the rest in a prompt fashion. Good point regarding the sales subsection, I've merged it into development and release. One thing I must mention is that I don't know why the reception table isn't displaying scores from the last three publications. It seems that it won't register non-entries found in the
video game reviews template. I will keep looking into it. ♦
jaguar19:09, 22 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Reception
Both
Metacriticlinks say "mixed or average" reviews, not "mixed to positive".
Since "surmised" is another way of saying "guessed", it doesn't feel like the best verb when this instead is a reviewer's opinion, and let's specify that the "underwhelming" comment pertains to playing the game by oneself as opposed to with other people.
"the game's overall similarity" should note that this is similarity to the prior two Mario & Sonic games (it otherwise looks like an incomplete thought)
I'm not sure "meaningful" from "lack of meaningful difficulty" is the best tone. Furthermore,
difficulty (or lack thereof) isn't even something I can find in the attributed ref.
Removed and replaced with "lamented on the game's overall lack of new content and predictability". I must have mixed it with another review. ♦
jaguar13:23, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
The use of "regretted" feels off when that pertains to something one wishes they did/didn't do. A better term would be "complained" in order to avoid repetition of things like "lamented".
Your use of quotation marks for "charm" is deceptive when
that was was nowhere to be found in Digital Spy, and
IGN only uses "elevating" in present tense, not past tense as used in this page's prose. Additionally, the use of "noted" for "noted that part of its 'charm' was" can come off as treating someone's opinion like a fact.
Removed the quotation marks from 'elevated' and replaced 'charm' with 'appeal', which is reflected in the review. Well spotted and I also replaced 'noted' with 'felt'. ♦
jaguar13:23, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Similarly,
"fare better" is used, not "fared better". There's also no mention of 3DS visuals in that URL.
See my previous comment on moving the "sales" (which you still haven't done yet despite your above comment; I'm guessing you forgot to publish that change).
The citation template won't allow you to insert italics when the names of the websites and publishers are in work/publisher fields. They are all in the correct fields anyway. ♦
jaguar13:28, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Overall
Prose: Some work needs to be done
Referencing: Not all content is properly attributed, and some citation formatting should be corrected
Coverage: Are any 3DS sale figures known?
Neutrality: I'm skeptical of the "meaningful difficulty" part and a use of "noted"
Stability: Looks good
Media: Both images have good FUR's
Verdict: Starting now, I'm putting the nomination on hold for seven days. That should be enough time to address my remaining comments.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
22:59, 30 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Of course,
Jaguar. Just one last thing: you'll need to add a ref for when the sequel Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games came out, whether in the lead or article body.
SNUGGUMS (
talk /
edits)
14:55, 31 July 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.