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![]() | Big Black Bus was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 26 December 2008 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Marilyn Manson (band). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
Across Wikipedia, EPs/compilations/other releases have been listed among studio albums under a Discography, if the release is equally important. Examples can be found on Nine Inch Nails, Guns N' Roses, Seaweed, Led Zeppelin, and many more. In this case, Smells Like Children should be listed, too. Here's my points:
#1: Historically, it was considered an actual album, and not just a promotional/limited throwaway EP. This viewpoint has changed due to opinions, but that fact is still in history. source: old official website listing it as the 2nd album / source: 1998 interview with Manson / source: 1997 article about Manson's fans / source: 1997 article/interview about Daisy's exit Note: There are plenty of sources that says Antichrist Superstar is the second album, of course, but I wanted to show older sources only, since the majority of the "Antichrist Superstar is the second album" claims are from post-2000s, while anything prior says that Smells Like Children is.
#2: It charted on multiple Billboard charts, something a low-grade EP would not do. It charted on Top Album Sales, Top Current Albums, and Billboard 200. It also sold over 1 million copies, which is pretty important in itself. source: Billboard chart numbers
#3: There was a national tour promoting Smells Like Children, a lengthy one, at that. Small EPs typically don't have such large tours made for them. source: Wikipedia page about the tour
#4: A single and music video was released for one of the songs, "Sweet Dreams". This is also noteable because it was Marilyn Manson's breakout hit, and received lots of popularity due to it. source: Wikipedia page about the song
#5: Out of the 16 tracks, only 4 of them are true remixes. The remaining 12 tracks are either new songs, skits, or offbeat audio clips. This makes it a distinguished release, even if it's not your typical properly-arranged album. Also, the length of Smells Like Children is 54 minutes. That is way too long to be considered an EP anyway, and I'm assuming people only started to call it an EP because maybe there's only xx minutes of "actual proper music"? I'm not sure, but it was discussed briefly. source: Wikipedia talk page about the length Xanarki ( talk) 17:37, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
Some counterpoints:
If you people want to include Smells Like Children as an EP in the discography section, like I've noticed you doing at Nine Inch Nails and Mazzy Star and multiple other bands on my watchlist – god only knows how many more – then go ahead. But the edit warring and nonsense has to stop. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 23:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Homeostasis07: Should we add something to the "Legacy" section where a critic talks about how the allegations have impacted Manson's legacy? MagicatthemovieS ( talk) 17:28, 14 August 2021 (UTC)MagicatthemovieS
This source is hard to cite within this article where it was because this article is about the band Marilyn Manson and the sentence "A pivotal figure in 1990s and '00s alternative metal and hard rock, Manson is known for..." clearly refers to the singer Marilyn Manson. RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 12:44, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Gothic rock is cited in at least two separate sources, including Rolling Stone. It should be added to the infobox. RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 00:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
The goth subculture say Manson is not goth and he is not welcome in the goth community as being edgy and shock value doesn’t go by what gothic rock is gothic rock has a dark yet a romantic sounding and also lyrics are poetic and dark with romanticisms and introspection Manson was mislabeled as goth due to him looking spooky shock rock is the best term to use rather than gothic rock Thecure8985 ( talk) 02:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Does anyone else think the " Controversies" section should have a subsection for the sexual abuse allegations against Manson and Ramirez? There are similar subsections in the articles for Rammstein and the Red Hot Chili Peppers so why not here? Charles Essie ( talk) 17:46, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Marilyn Manson (band) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
![]() | Marilyn Manson (band) is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | Marilyn Manson (band) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 5, 2006. | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Big Black Bus was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 26 December 2008 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Marilyn Manson (band). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
Across Wikipedia, EPs/compilations/other releases have been listed among studio albums under a Discography, if the release is equally important. Examples can be found on Nine Inch Nails, Guns N' Roses, Seaweed, Led Zeppelin, and many more. In this case, Smells Like Children should be listed, too. Here's my points:
#1: Historically, it was considered an actual album, and not just a promotional/limited throwaway EP. This viewpoint has changed due to opinions, but that fact is still in history. source: old official website listing it as the 2nd album / source: 1998 interview with Manson / source: 1997 article about Manson's fans / source: 1997 article/interview about Daisy's exit Note: There are plenty of sources that says Antichrist Superstar is the second album, of course, but I wanted to show older sources only, since the majority of the "Antichrist Superstar is the second album" claims are from post-2000s, while anything prior says that Smells Like Children is.
#2: It charted on multiple Billboard charts, something a low-grade EP would not do. It charted on Top Album Sales, Top Current Albums, and Billboard 200. It also sold over 1 million copies, which is pretty important in itself. source: Billboard chart numbers
#3: There was a national tour promoting Smells Like Children, a lengthy one, at that. Small EPs typically don't have such large tours made for them. source: Wikipedia page about the tour
#4: A single and music video was released for one of the songs, "Sweet Dreams". This is also noteable because it was Marilyn Manson's breakout hit, and received lots of popularity due to it. source: Wikipedia page about the song
#5: Out of the 16 tracks, only 4 of them are true remixes. The remaining 12 tracks are either new songs, skits, or offbeat audio clips. This makes it a distinguished release, even if it's not your typical properly-arranged album. Also, the length of Smells Like Children is 54 minutes. That is way too long to be considered an EP anyway, and I'm assuming people only started to call it an EP because maybe there's only xx minutes of "actual proper music"? I'm not sure, but it was discussed briefly. source: Wikipedia talk page about the length Xanarki ( talk) 17:37, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
Some counterpoints:
If you people want to include Smells Like Children as an EP in the discography section, like I've noticed you doing at Nine Inch Nails and Mazzy Star and multiple other bands on my watchlist – god only knows how many more – then go ahead. But the edit warring and nonsense has to stop. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 23:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Homeostasis07: Should we add something to the "Legacy" section where a critic talks about how the allegations have impacted Manson's legacy? MagicatthemovieS ( talk) 17:28, 14 August 2021 (UTC)MagicatthemovieS
This source is hard to cite within this article where it was because this article is about the band Marilyn Manson and the sentence "A pivotal figure in 1990s and '00s alternative metal and hard rock, Manson is known for..." clearly refers to the singer Marilyn Manson. RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 12:44, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Gothic rock is cited in at least two separate sources, including Rolling Stone. It should be added to the infobox. RockabillyRaccoon ( talk) 00:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
The goth subculture say Manson is not goth and he is not welcome in the goth community as being edgy and shock value doesn’t go by what gothic rock is gothic rock has a dark yet a romantic sounding and also lyrics are poetic and dark with romanticisms and introspection Manson was mislabeled as goth due to him looking spooky shock rock is the best term to use rather than gothic rock Thecure8985 ( talk) 02:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Does anyone else think the " Controversies" section should have a subsection for the sexual abuse allegations against Manson and Ramirez? There are similar subsections in the articles for Rammstein and the Red Hot Chili Peppers so why not here? Charles Essie ( talk) 17:46, 14 December 2023 (UTC)