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Is her name Margo or Margot? Tim! ( talk) 21:31, 1 October 2005 (UTC) I think Margot. I think that this article is not politically neutral.
Was she Ministerin für Volksbildung (as in first paragraph) or Volksbildungsministerin (as in later section)? Even people who know some German will find this confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.197.170.130 ( talk) 06:25, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Ministerin für Volksbildung-- Frances K. ( talk) 20:15, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Im not quite sure but I think the official title was masculine, "Minister für Volksbildung"-- Frances K. ( talk) 20:28, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I keep getting indigestion from this entry when it identifies her as Margot Honecker before she married Erich. Before she married Erich she was Margot Feist. Calling her by her married name when she was a child and then a (formidably ambitious) young woman, but BEFORE she got married is a gratuitous anachronism. And to the extent that she had already placed several little footprints on East Germany's history BEFORE she got married, using her "wrong" name for those early years risks confusing people trying to check out contemporary sources.
Or am I being unduly picky?
Regards Charles01 ( talk) 08:42, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
The introduction seems to me "a bit" POV and biased. It is full of references to Western mass media and newspapers like The Independent, The Huffington Post, etc :-/. In the lead. In a biography of a political person. Calling her a "Purple witch". The most "hated person in East Germany". Speaking about "kidnapping", "forced adoption" and "concentration camps for children" with just one reference to those "newspapers". I hope that after some days, when some users lose their interest in pushing their views in this article, we can create a serious introduction and improve the article. emijrp ( talk) 10:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
I am going to cite here how Encyclopedia.com addresses the controversial issues regarding Margot Honecker. Encyclopedia.com article is really critical with her, but let's read how it is approached:
“ | One of the handful of women to rise to a leadership position in the GDR, Margot Honecker was accused in 1992 of having forced political dissidents to surrender their children for adoption. She was also suspected of having authorized the building of prison-like barracks—called by some "Margot's KZ" (Margot's Concentration Camp)—in which several truant minors had been driven to commit suicide. Whatever their validity, these accusations would never be subjected to the scrutiny of a public trial, because Margot Honecker never returned to Germany to face these or any other charges. In July 1992, she fled Moscow for exile in Chile, finding refuge there with her daughter's family. | ” |
— Encyclopedia.com |
The New York Times says:
“ | Education Ministry files found in 1991 seemed to confirm allegations, never proven, that Mrs. Honecker had forced people who were considered traitors to surrender their children for adoption. Opponents contended that hundreds of parents had been declared unfit to raise their children after trying to flee to the West or being convicted of espionage. The files cited only a half-dozen cases of children taken for adoption by “approved” Communist families. | ” |
— The New York Times |
And here is how Wikipedia does it:
“ | She was also responsible for the regime's forced adoption of children of jailed dissidents or people who attempted to flee the communist dictatorship, and she is considered to have "left a cruel legacy of separated families". She also established prison-like institutions for children, including a camp at Torgau known as "Margot's concentration camp. | ” |
— Wikipedia.org |
Can you see the difference @ 68.19.0.114:, @ Jayron32: and @ Tataral:? And Encyclopedia.com & Wikipedia articles ignores her position on this topic (which I think it should be added to the article too): "Mrs. Honecker dismissed allegations that she had directed a program of forced adoptions: 'It didn't exist' she said". emijrp ( talk) 14:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
The article says: "After graduating from elementary school, she was a member of the Nazi Party's girls' organisation Bund Deutscher Mädel from 1938 to 1945." linking to [4]. I can't read German and the link seems to point to a summary, not full text.
It is a bit strange that Margot was a member of that organization. According to sources her parents were communists (anti-fascists) and her father was imprisoned in a Nazi camp. Gestapo searched their apartment several times. Also, the Encyclopedia.com article says she was a member of her father communist cell:
Gotthard Feist returned to his family from the Buchenwald concentration camp a physical shadow of his former self, but morally unbroken. Entering her teen years, Margot was truly impressed by her father's fearless return to his illegal KPD activities, despite almost constant surveillance by Gestapo and other Nazi secret agents. She was soon the youngest member of her father's cell, taking risks as a "young comrade" even though she was not formally a member of Halle's tiny but active Communist underground. Her responsibilities included acting as a courier, setting up clandestine meetings, and similar highrisk activities.
Recent articles in mass media about her death include her alleged membership to the Nazi youth organization, but it may be just a copy/paste from Wikipedia by journalists (the information was added to Wikipedia in 2009). Can you please provide further insight and sources about this issue? Maybe the membership was obligatory by law? It is strange. Anyway, currently there is no info about her militant activities in communist groups in her Wikipedia article, which I think it should be added. -- emijrp ( talk) 20:13, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
The whole article is written like a 1950s Cold War political pamphlet attacking the "totalitarian Stalinists". While there is no doubt that she was a high-ranking member of an authoritarian and anti-democratic regime, she was by no means "the most hated person in East Germany" (even today, there are Germans who are fond of the old regime, which, of course, was not a democracy, but that's not the point). And of course, expressions such as "the purple witch" have no place in the lead section of a political biography. Needs a major rewrite, ASAP. 77.49.9.243 ( talk) 20:53, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
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After editing this I realise that "ouster" can mean the same thing as "ousting", but I'd argue that it's pretty obscure and "ousting" reads more nicely so I'm leaving my change in Dichohecho ( talk) 10:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
A news item involving Margot Honecker was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 10 May 2016. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Is her name Margo or Margot? Tim! ( talk) 21:31, 1 October 2005 (UTC) I think Margot. I think that this article is not politically neutral.
Was she Ministerin für Volksbildung (as in first paragraph) or Volksbildungsministerin (as in later section)? Even people who know some German will find this confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.197.170.130 ( talk) 06:25, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Ministerin für Volksbildung-- Frances K. ( talk) 20:15, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Im not quite sure but I think the official title was masculine, "Minister für Volksbildung"-- Frances K. ( talk) 20:28, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
I keep getting indigestion from this entry when it identifies her as Margot Honecker before she married Erich. Before she married Erich she was Margot Feist. Calling her by her married name when she was a child and then a (formidably ambitious) young woman, but BEFORE she got married is a gratuitous anachronism. And to the extent that she had already placed several little footprints on East Germany's history BEFORE she got married, using her "wrong" name for those early years risks confusing people trying to check out contemporary sources.
Or am I being unduly picky?
Regards Charles01 ( talk) 08:42, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
The introduction seems to me "a bit" POV and biased. It is full of references to Western mass media and newspapers like The Independent, The Huffington Post, etc :-/. In the lead. In a biography of a political person. Calling her a "Purple witch". The most "hated person in East Germany". Speaking about "kidnapping", "forced adoption" and "concentration camps for children" with just one reference to those "newspapers". I hope that after some days, when some users lose their interest in pushing their views in this article, we can create a serious introduction and improve the article. emijrp ( talk) 10:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
I am going to cite here how Encyclopedia.com addresses the controversial issues regarding Margot Honecker. Encyclopedia.com article is really critical with her, but let's read how it is approached:
“ | One of the handful of women to rise to a leadership position in the GDR, Margot Honecker was accused in 1992 of having forced political dissidents to surrender their children for adoption. She was also suspected of having authorized the building of prison-like barracks—called by some "Margot's KZ" (Margot's Concentration Camp)—in which several truant minors had been driven to commit suicide. Whatever their validity, these accusations would never be subjected to the scrutiny of a public trial, because Margot Honecker never returned to Germany to face these or any other charges. In July 1992, she fled Moscow for exile in Chile, finding refuge there with her daughter's family. | ” |
— Encyclopedia.com |
The New York Times says:
“ | Education Ministry files found in 1991 seemed to confirm allegations, never proven, that Mrs. Honecker had forced people who were considered traitors to surrender their children for adoption. Opponents contended that hundreds of parents had been declared unfit to raise their children after trying to flee to the West or being convicted of espionage. The files cited only a half-dozen cases of children taken for adoption by “approved” Communist families. | ” |
— The New York Times |
And here is how Wikipedia does it:
“ | She was also responsible for the regime's forced adoption of children of jailed dissidents or people who attempted to flee the communist dictatorship, and she is considered to have "left a cruel legacy of separated families". She also established prison-like institutions for children, including a camp at Torgau known as "Margot's concentration camp. | ” |
— Wikipedia.org |
Can you see the difference @ 68.19.0.114:, @ Jayron32: and @ Tataral:? And Encyclopedia.com & Wikipedia articles ignores her position on this topic (which I think it should be added to the article too): "Mrs. Honecker dismissed allegations that she had directed a program of forced adoptions: 'It didn't exist' she said". emijrp ( talk) 14:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
The article says: "After graduating from elementary school, she was a member of the Nazi Party's girls' organisation Bund Deutscher Mädel from 1938 to 1945." linking to [4]. I can't read German and the link seems to point to a summary, not full text.
It is a bit strange that Margot was a member of that organization. According to sources her parents were communists (anti-fascists) and her father was imprisoned in a Nazi camp. Gestapo searched their apartment several times. Also, the Encyclopedia.com article says she was a member of her father communist cell:
Gotthard Feist returned to his family from the Buchenwald concentration camp a physical shadow of his former self, but morally unbroken. Entering her teen years, Margot was truly impressed by her father's fearless return to his illegal KPD activities, despite almost constant surveillance by Gestapo and other Nazi secret agents. She was soon the youngest member of her father's cell, taking risks as a "young comrade" even though she was not formally a member of Halle's tiny but active Communist underground. Her responsibilities included acting as a courier, setting up clandestine meetings, and similar highrisk activities.
Recent articles in mass media about her death include her alleged membership to the Nazi youth organization, but it may be just a copy/paste from Wikipedia by journalists (the information was added to Wikipedia in 2009). Can you please provide further insight and sources about this issue? Maybe the membership was obligatory by law? It is strange. Anyway, currently there is no info about her militant activities in communist groups in her Wikipedia article, which I think it should be added. -- emijrp ( talk) 20:13, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
The whole article is written like a 1950s Cold War political pamphlet attacking the "totalitarian Stalinists". While there is no doubt that she was a high-ranking member of an authoritarian and anti-democratic regime, she was by no means "the most hated person in East Germany" (even today, there are Germans who are fond of the old regime, which, of course, was not a democracy, but that's not the point). And of course, expressions such as "the purple witch" have no place in the lead section of a political biography. Needs a major rewrite, ASAP. 77.49.9.243 ( talk) 20:53, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
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After editing this I realise that "ouster" can mean the same thing as "ousting", but I'd argue that it's pretty obscure and "ousting" reads more nicely so I'm leaving my change in Dichohecho ( talk) 10:12, 1 September 2022 (UTC)