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19-February-2007: I have thrown this article together in a few hours, as some sort of documented information about Mardi Gras, with reliable source footnotes. I apologize for the haphazard appearance, but I had only a few hours to document the extensive research and combine the information. A book could be written.... - Wikid77 16:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
19-February-2007: There are few pictures of Mobile in the article, yet. I hope to add more soon. - Wikid77 16:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
28 April 2012: There are still few wide-angle pictures of Mobile in the article (only one), despite the potential to show balcony views of parades moving along Mobile streets. Perhaps Flickr has some photos available, until others could be added. I will try to add more photos. - Wikid77 19:51, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
24-February-2007: As a popular topic, information about Mardi Gras in Mobile (or festivals in general) might slide into unsourced, folksy, slang writing. This article began as a formal, sourced, encyclopedic document and should be checked for adherence to Wikipedia rules for writing articles. There are other festival articles full of anecdotal notions, so it is understandable that some would also treat this article in a similar manner, or as a trendy insider's tips to Mardi Gras. While it is fine to add some unsourced information, any folksy/slang phrases should be reworded immediately, and references should be added within a few days of adding text. Questionable, unsourced phrases should be tagged with "{{fact}}" and then, if they are not defended with source notes after a few days, those phrases should be deleted, only re-adding at a later time with reliable sources. Also see: Wikipedia:Guide_to_layout. - Wikid77 15:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Image:Doubloon.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 01:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I did a little clean-up per WP:MOS and removed the repetitive photos as per WP:MOS as they detract from the text rather than enhance it in my opinion. I would suggest a gallery instead of so many images imbedded in the text. There were two references (formerly ref name=wNOLA/ & ref name=F2007mon/) which only included the ref name=EXAMPLE code only and no reference text, making me wonder if they were possibly cut and pasted from another article without the original references? Maybe New Orleans Mardi Gras? Since they did not actually reference anything I removed them for clarity. Their prior locations do need references. As a Mobilian, I'm just trying to make this a better article, no intent to offend anyone. Altairisfar 06:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
14-Nov-2007: I have restored the images that seemed repetitive: they are similar to others, but also, they function as placeholders for future images to replace them, providing more diversity. To a Mobilian, the images might seem excessive; however, remember that to an outsider, all this is probably quite new. With the popularity of YouTube, the trend to add more visual style, rather than less, is the way of the future. Several wiki pages link to video clips as well as showing images. There is much to illustrate: the article doesn't even show the location of Mobile, in relative terms, while a map noting the distance between both Mobile & New Orleans should probably be added. Many more images would be an improvement, but also as America's oldest Mardi Gras (roughly 100 years longer than New Orleans), more historical text is needed, with extra reliable sources. Also, the Spanish period needs more coverage, IMHO. - Wikid77 23:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
16-Nov-2007: Several different people have come to this article, and rather than adding any substantial new, sourced information, have mainly flagged the article with one of those holier-than-thou vanity boxes, "I, the self-righteous, proclaim this article, above all, defective!!!" They're not to blame for the tendency to throw a vanity-box over an article: many people have some strong opinions and given a soap-box (or vanity-box), rant they will.
After working on 10,000 articles, I realize those top-billed judgmental boxes are too tempting and typically become vanity-boxes, more than help the situation. I would eliminate most vanity-boxes, except in protected mode, and direct people to flag subsections of an article, not the top attention-getter. We've seen articles flagged by vanity-boxes for 2 years, with little improvement. Vanity-boxes are not the solution: many areas of Wikipedia are staffed by skeleton crews, with just a handful of people writing those articles. It is important to work with them, not simply cast judgments. Contact prior editors and determine when they might have time to help with rewrites.
As far as helping readers, a grandstanding top-rant is not the way: try flagging individual sentences with {{fact}} "citation needed" or "disputed" or even use the superscript tags "<sup>xxx</sup>" to add a particular pertinent comment: [sources disagree as to the date]. The vanity-boxes just clutter the article, with few details to really warn readers what to question as they read.
Many vanity-box templates allow adding the keyword parameter "|section" for the tag to be placed within a more limited section, rather than demanding attention as a top-billed rant. Consider the grandstanding vanity-boxes to be a wiki-management flaw, not a reason to hate people: if managers knew better, they wouldn't have gone down that dead-end vanity road. Remember, Wikipedia is also an interesting long-term study in failed management concepts and error-prone software designs, as well as a repository of knowledge. Learn from those mistakes and improve. - Wikid77 06:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
All of that said, I think that overall the article is good, just a little confusing even to a person with intimate knowledge of the subject. Altairisfar ( talk) 23:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
1) Are the pictures illustrating regional maps necessary in an article about Mardi Gras? They seem to clutter up the article without giving any meaningful information for the article itself.
2) The section about the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is more of a rant about news coverage disparaties and very little to do with Mardi Gras. In addition, as a resident, I can tell you that yes, Mobile Downtown flooded faster... but also emptied faster with less long term damage and a quicker recovery. And does anybody honestly expect Mobile to get near the same news coverage of New Orleans after Katrina?
This article seems to have some good points, but needs a lot of work. -- Donovan Ravenhull ( talk) 09:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
74.74.102.247 ( talk) 15:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
28-Dec-2007: Over the past 10 months of creating/expanding this article, I must emphasize that the subject is basically about partying and, as might be expected, the source documents contain many misspelled words. I have noticed the following particular spellings:
Again, the subject of Mardi Gras is basically about partying, so I haven't been too concerned about the spellings all year. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
28-Dec-2007: When I first created the article, I noted that "a book could be written" spanning the 300-year history. I had hoped more people would expand sub-articles, but it didn't happen. Now I clearly realize that, in 2007, Wikipedia was written by relatively tiny " skeleton crews" of volunteers, so it will take a special effort to expand Mobile's mystic societies into sub-articles, to reduce the size of the main article (" Mardi Gras in Mobile"). I obviously had only limited hours all year to deal with the many thousands of articles I modified.
Only just today, I noticed that back in February 2007, I dated the talk-topics as "2006" which is quite indicative of how little time we've had to improve Wikipedia (or re-read to correct our own discussions). I see wiki-burnout as mainly caused by some people's severe attitudes towards others. One desperate editor even replied to me about being surprised to receive a "pleasant" user-talk message, having become mortified when seeing "You have new messages" and dreading the typical contents. Belligerent editors are a real problem, and people must curb their tongues, while others prepare to face opinions and vitriol of the barbaric savages out there in the real world. It is important to develop coping skills to deflect the growing anger (and remember, "A gentleman never loses his temper with the servants"). Also, stand strong against " wiki-terrorism" with people deliberately trolling and hacking articles to perpetuate the "Wikpedia is a total joke" perceptions of the broader public. Have strength to keep creating new articles, as warranted. - Wikid77 ( talk) 11:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
The suggestions that N.O. Mardi Gras is quintessentially "bawdy" while Mobile Mardi Gras is somehow more wholesome family fun seems suspiciously like POV rather than fact. This characterization is also not completely cited, and the partial "citation" bares several problems: (1) what is actually cited is only that Mobile's Mardi Gras "include family-oriented activities, silly fun, and revelry", not that this in any way makes it distinct from New Orleans; (2) the N.O. Mardi Gras article shows that, for much of N.O. Mardi Gras is indeed a family-oriented celebration rather than something inherently lewd; (3) the website for the citation is none other than the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce, hardly an impartial source if we are trying to establish a comparison of character between the Mardi Gras celebrations in these two cities; (4) the linked website doesn't directly support the cited statement itself, at least not directly; (5) the cited website certainly does not make any attempt to distinguish Mobile Mardi Gras from N.O. Mardi Gras in any way other than its claim that Mobile's is slightly older--it does NOT make any characterization that N.O.'s festival is somehow inherently "bawdy" while it's own is inherently innocent; (6) even if it DID make such accusations, these would hardly be substantial or impartial facts, given problem number 3 and given that such a statement would by its very nature be POV or a marketing tactic.
Furthermore, the section comparing the two Mardi Gras directly contains no citations at all, I suppose merely assuming it to be common knowledge. While it may be common knowledge that the French Quarter in N.O. is the site of some lewd behavior during N.O. Mardi Gras, this is arguably more of a public perception than a fact. Regardless, the occurrence of such behavior in Mobile is not well known nationally, and therefore is in no way common knowledge. Lastly, the section itself, like the N.O. article, admits that much of the N.O. celebrations are geared toward family-oriented events.
So, given all that, I am removing the offending distinctions entirely until someone can either fully and appropriately cite such claims and reword them in such a way as to make it obvious that the statements are POV claims (supported by the citation), not indisputable facts. I would also argue that such an obviously controversial topic as comparing the characters of these two city's Mardi Gras activities should be handled in a more delicate, more thorough manner. As it stands, the distinction seems unfair, unsubstantiated, and inappropriate. It is also poorly constructed. In my opinion this should be left alone altogether if it cannot be approached properly, because these subtle distinctions are not only inherently open to opinion and subjective values, but are directly making the implicit and explicit claim that the two celebrations have observably generally distinct characters, with N.O. being "bawdy" debauchery and Mobile's being "silly fun". Obviously, among the controversies (city rivalry, personal POV, subjective values, etc) is that this potentially plays into the old stereotype of New Orleans being a city of vice and immorality. Unless all these controversies can be handled with care, better to not even deal with them and stick to verifiable facts. 74.74.102.247 ( talk) 15:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
20-Sep-2008: I have added subheaders above as "Topics from 2007" (etc.) to emphasize the dates of topics in the talk-page. Older topics might still apply, but using the year headers helps to focus on more current issues as well. - Wikid77 ( talk) 09:03, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello, there is an article here, http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1437, and a link here, http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Galleries.jsp?id=e-137, that might be useful.
Thanks,
Justin -- Duboiju ( talk) 16:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Editors fond of Mobile Mardi Gras have provided many details about the parades and events, but perhaps that has led to excesses - does there have to be so many subheaders on varieties of throws? The bead section itemizes each Asian country where plastic beads have been manufactured - why should we care? There are many details but little overall view - how many people parade? how much money does the season generate? obviously many businesses are geared solely to Mardi Gras, so it's a big deal. Article needs more attention and sourcing.-- Parkwells ( talk) 14:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
My impression from this article that French Creoles celebrated Mardi Gras (and Carnival in general) early in the 18th century, then the tradition gradually faded out, and it was essentially defunct by the time it was revived (or reinvented) by Anglos in the mid-19th century. Is that accurate? Sylvain1972 ( talk) 17:36, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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|
19-February-2007: I have thrown this article together in a few hours, as some sort of documented information about Mardi Gras, with reliable source footnotes. I apologize for the haphazard appearance, but I had only a few hours to document the extensive research and combine the information. A book could be written.... - Wikid77 16:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
19-February-2007: There are few pictures of Mobile in the article, yet. I hope to add more soon. - Wikid77 16:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
28 April 2012: There are still few wide-angle pictures of Mobile in the article (only one), despite the potential to show balcony views of parades moving along Mobile streets. Perhaps Flickr has some photos available, until others could be added. I will try to add more photos. - Wikid77 19:51, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
24-February-2007: As a popular topic, information about Mardi Gras in Mobile (or festivals in general) might slide into unsourced, folksy, slang writing. This article began as a formal, sourced, encyclopedic document and should be checked for adherence to Wikipedia rules for writing articles. There are other festival articles full of anecdotal notions, so it is understandable that some would also treat this article in a similar manner, or as a trendy insider's tips to Mardi Gras. While it is fine to add some unsourced information, any folksy/slang phrases should be reworded immediately, and references should be added within a few days of adding text. Questionable, unsourced phrases should be tagged with "{{fact}}" and then, if they are not defended with source notes after a few days, those phrases should be deleted, only re-adding at a later time with reliable sources. Also see: Wikipedia:Guide_to_layout. - Wikid77 15:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Image:Doubloon.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 01:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I did a little clean-up per WP:MOS and removed the repetitive photos as per WP:MOS as they detract from the text rather than enhance it in my opinion. I would suggest a gallery instead of so many images imbedded in the text. There were two references (formerly ref name=wNOLA/ & ref name=F2007mon/) which only included the ref name=EXAMPLE code only and no reference text, making me wonder if they were possibly cut and pasted from another article without the original references? Maybe New Orleans Mardi Gras? Since they did not actually reference anything I removed them for clarity. Their prior locations do need references. As a Mobilian, I'm just trying to make this a better article, no intent to offend anyone. Altairisfar 06:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
14-Nov-2007: I have restored the images that seemed repetitive: they are similar to others, but also, they function as placeholders for future images to replace them, providing more diversity. To a Mobilian, the images might seem excessive; however, remember that to an outsider, all this is probably quite new. With the popularity of YouTube, the trend to add more visual style, rather than less, is the way of the future. Several wiki pages link to video clips as well as showing images. There is much to illustrate: the article doesn't even show the location of Mobile, in relative terms, while a map noting the distance between both Mobile & New Orleans should probably be added. Many more images would be an improvement, but also as America's oldest Mardi Gras (roughly 100 years longer than New Orleans), more historical text is needed, with extra reliable sources. Also, the Spanish period needs more coverage, IMHO. - Wikid77 23:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
16-Nov-2007: Several different people have come to this article, and rather than adding any substantial new, sourced information, have mainly flagged the article with one of those holier-than-thou vanity boxes, "I, the self-righteous, proclaim this article, above all, defective!!!" They're not to blame for the tendency to throw a vanity-box over an article: many people have some strong opinions and given a soap-box (or vanity-box), rant they will.
After working on 10,000 articles, I realize those top-billed judgmental boxes are too tempting and typically become vanity-boxes, more than help the situation. I would eliminate most vanity-boxes, except in protected mode, and direct people to flag subsections of an article, not the top attention-getter. We've seen articles flagged by vanity-boxes for 2 years, with little improvement. Vanity-boxes are not the solution: many areas of Wikipedia are staffed by skeleton crews, with just a handful of people writing those articles. It is important to work with them, not simply cast judgments. Contact prior editors and determine when they might have time to help with rewrites.
As far as helping readers, a grandstanding top-rant is not the way: try flagging individual sentences with {{fact}} "citation needed" or "disputed" or even use the superscript tags "<sup>xxx</sup>" to add a particular pertinent comment: [sources disagree as to the date]. The vanity-boxes just clutter the article, with few details to really warn readers what to question as they read.
Many vanity-box templates allow adding the keyword parameter "|section" for the tag to be placed within a more limited section, rather than demanding attention as a top-billed rant. Consider the grandstanding vanity-boxes to be a wiki-management flaw, not a reason to hate people: if managers knew better, they wouldn't have gone down that dead-end vanity road. Remember, Wikipedia is also an interesting long-term study in failed management concepts and error-prone software designs, as well as a repository of knowledge. Learn from those mistakes and improve. - Wikid77 06:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
All of that said, I think that overall the article is good, just a little confusing even to a person with intimate knowledge of the subject. Altairisfar ( talk) 23:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
1) Are the pictures illustrating regional maps necessary in an article about Mardi Gras? They seem to clutter up the article without giving any meaningful information for the article itself.
2) The section about the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is more of a rant about news coverage disparaties and very little to do with Mardi Gras. In addition, as a resident, I can tell you that yes, Mobile Downtown flooded faster... but also emptied faster with less long term damage and a quicker recovery. And does anybody honestly expect Mobile to get near the same news coverage of New Orleans after Katrina?
This article seems to have some good points, but needs a lot of work. -- Donovan Ravenhull ( talk) 09:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
74.74.102.247 ( talk) 15:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
28-Dec-2007: Over the past 10 months of creating/expanding this article, I must emphasize that the subject is basically about partying and, as might be expected, the source documents contain many misspelled words. I have noticed the following particular spellings:
Again, the subject of Mardi Gras is basically about partying, so I haven't been too concerned about the spellings all year. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
28-Dec-2007: When I first created the article, I noted that "a book could be written" spanning the 300-year history. I had hoped more people would expand sub-articles, but it didn't happen. Now I clearly realize that, in 2007, Wikipedia was written by relatively tiny " skeleton crews" of volunteers, so it will take a special effort to expand Mobile's mystic societies into sub-articles, to reduce the size of the main article (" Mardi Gras in Mobile"). I obviously had only limited hours all year to deal with the many thousands of articles I modified.
Only just today, I noticed that back in February 2007, I dated the talk-topics as "2006" which is quite indicative of how little time we've had to improve Wikipedia (or re-read to correct our own discussions). I see wiki-burnout as mainly caused by some people's severe attitudes towards others. One desperate editor even replied to me about being surprised to receive a "pleasant" user-talk message, having become mortified when seeing "You have new messages" and dreading the typical contents. Belligerent editors are a real problem, and people must curb their tongues, while others prepare to face opinions and vitriol of the barbaric savages out there in the real world. It is important to develop coping skills to deflect the growing anger (and remember, "A gentleman never loses his temper with the servants"). Also, stand strong against " wiki-terrorism" with people deliberately trolling and hacking articles to perpetuate the "Wikpedia is a total joke" perceptions of the broader public. Have strength to keep creating new articles, as warranted. - Wikid77 ( talk) 11:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
The suggestions that N.O. Mardi Gras is quintessentially "bawdy" while Mobile Mardi Gras is somehow more wholesome family fun seems suspiciously like POV rather than fact. This characterization is also not completely cited, and the partial "citation" bares several problems: (1) what is actually cited is only that Mobile's Mardi Gras "include family-oriented activities, silly fun, and revelry", not that this in any way makes it distinct from New Orleans; (2) the N.O. Mardi Gras article shows that, for much of N.O. Mardi Gras is indeed a family-oriented celebration rather than something inherently lewd; (3) the website for the citation is none other than the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce, hardly an impartial source if we are trying to establish a comparison of character between the Mardi Gras celebrations in these two cities; (4) the linked website doesn't directly support the cited statement itself, at least not directly; (5) the cited website certainly does not make any attempt to distinguish Mobile Mardi Gras from N.O. Mardi Gras in any way other than its claim that Mobile's is slightly older--it does NOT make any characterization that N.O.'s festival is somehow inherently "bawdy" while it's own is inherently innocent; (6) even if it DID make such accusations, these would hardly be substantial or impartial facts, given problem number 3 and given that such a statement would by its very nature be POV or a marketing tactic.
Furthermore, the section comparing the two Mardi Gras directly contains no citations at all, I suppose merely assuming it to be common knowledge. While it may be common knowledge that the French Quarter in N.O. is the site of some lewd behavior during N.O. Mardi Gras, this is arguably more of a public perception than a fact. Regardless, the occurrence of such behavior in Mobile is not well known nationally, and therefore is in no way common knowledge. Lastly, the section itself, like the N.O. article, admits that much of the N.O. celebrations are geared toward family-oriented events.
So, given all that, I am removing the offending distinctions entirely until someone can either fully and appropriately cite such claims and reword them in such a way as to make it obvious that the statements are POV claims (supported by the citation), not indisputable facts. I would also argue that such an obviously controversial topic as comparing the characters of these two city's Mardi Gras activities should be handled in a more delicate, more thorough manner. As it stands, the distinction seems unfair, unsubstantiated, and inappropriate. It is also poorly constructed. In my opinion this should be left alone altogether if it cannot be approached properly, because these subtle distinctions are not only inherently open to opinion and subjective values, but are directly making the implicit and explicit claim that the two celebrations have observably generally distinct characters, with N.O. being "bawdy" debauchery and Mobile's being "silly fun". Obviously, among the controversies (city rivalry, personal POV, subjective values, etc) is that this potentially plays into the old stereotype of New Orleans being a city of vice and immorality. Unless all these controversies can be handled with care, better to not even deal with them and stick to verifiable facts. 74.74.102.247 ( talk) 15:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
20-Sep-2008: I have added subheaders above as "Topics from 2007" (etc.) to emphasize the dates of topics in the talk-page. Older topics might still apply, but using the year headers helps to focus on more current issues as well. - Wikid77 ( talk) 09:03, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello, there is an article here, http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1437, and a link here, http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Galleries.jsp?id=e-137, that might be useful.
Thanks,
Justin -- Duboiju ( talk) 16:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Editors fond of Mobile Mardi Gras have provided many details about the parades and events, but perhaps that has led to excesses - does there have to be so many subheaders on varieties of throws? The bead section itemizes each Asian country where plastic beads have been manufactured - why should we care? There are many details but little overall view - how many people parade? how much money does the season generate? obviously many businesses are geared solely to Mardi Gras, so it's a big deal. Article needs more attention and sourcing.-- Parkwells ( talk) 14:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
My impression from this article that French Creoles celebrated Mardi Gras (and Carnival in general) early in the 18th century, then the tradition gradually faded out, and it was essentially defunct by the time it was revived (or reinvented) by Anglos in the mid-19th century. Is that accurate? Sylvain1972 ( talk) 17:36, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Mardi Gras in Mobile, Alabama. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:17, 2 June 2017 (UTC)