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Considering that victims were most certainly all natives of Donetsk and taking in mind that population there highly dislikes Ukraine, isn't it too rough to call them "Ukrainian civilians in Donetsk"? Nix3214 ( talk) 21:01, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, you are right. UserXpetVarpet ( talk) 23:45, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
What is the justification for keeping this article in the category "Russian war crimes in Ukraine" when there is no consensus that Russia was behind the attack? The body of the article does not justify this assertion. 79.144.76.2 ( talk) 13:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
" Donetsk People's Republic said that the attack was made by Tochka-U tactical missile system used by Ukrainian forces, which was shot down by the DPR Armed Forces" So by their account this does not seem to be a deliberated attack on the civilian center, instead the missile was shot down and fragments hit the civilians? Sgnpkd ( talk) 17:19, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Should this article be expanded with the attack of 3 May? report example 82.174.61.58 ( talk) 21:26, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Volunteer Marek, what did you mean by "sources which have a history of spreading fake news and disinfo"? I don't see any deprecated sources here and while I understand the concerns about using Russian sources in general, here they are used for reporting the position of the DNR (separatist) authorities. If you think they are not reliable for *that*, happy to discuss it at WP:RSN. Note that you also reverted some details I've added and that the sentence "Independent analysis stated that the rocket had been fired from Russian-controlled territory" has a wrong reference to the Guardian article which says nothing about it. Alaexis ¿question? 20:14, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
...is not a WP:RS and references to his views on the subject are WP:UNDUE. In fact, as far as I know, the Conflict Intelligence Team did not publish a proper report on the incident. There's no analysis, no research, no field work. We just have an interview to Ruslan Leviev released by a youtube channel, Популярная политика and/or Nastoyaschee Vremya, whose contents were reported by Ukranskaia Pravda. Note that the interview was released in the immediate aftermath of the attack, the following day. The ballistic arguments one can read on Ukr Pravda, based on the direction the missile is pointing, are ludicrous - one cannot understand the direction of a missile from one picture. So no serious investigation has been done, this doesn't pass the threshold of WP:V and I don't think we should report it. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 23:33, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
A conclusion, even if preliminary, by the Conflict Intelligence Team? I might have missed the source, obviously, but I've just seen an interview to Ruslan Leviev (who is obviously not a "team"... and who shared his views, but did not reach any firm conclusion) on a youtube channel, plus a printed account on that interview by Ukr Pravda. Is there anything else? Do you think that that is a WP:RS on the question "where did the missile come from?". Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 22:18, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
Ruslan Leviev, founder of a Russian analytical group that uses open-source data to track military activities, said photos from the incident suggest the missile flew from Russian-controlled territory and was not intercepted.
I added a few sources to the article (Reuters, which for some reason had been removed from the article; Euronews, Le Figaro, Fatto quotidiano); I also used a by-passing reference to the incident in a Washington Post article, plus info from a Human Rights Report on cluster munition. There are more sources, but they basically repeat what we already know ( Berliner Zeitung, Der Spiegel, Repubblica). I guess it's not for me to do it, but I think that the template:Notability should now be removed. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 00:04, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:09, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
2022 Donetsk attack → March 2022 Donetsk attack – There was another attack on June 2022, see Maisky Market attack. The current title is ambiguous and problematic. Super Ψ Dro 07:41, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Similarly to other proposals i made in several bombing articles, i suggest merging this article and other articles about bombings in Donetsk into an " Bombing of Donetsk" article, as all these articles are pretty small and on the same scope as each other. SnoopyBird ( talk) 21:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Considering that victims were most certainly all natives of Donetsk and taking in mind that population there highly dislikes Ukraine, isn't it too rough to call them "Ukrainian civilians in Donetsk"? Nix3214 ( talk) 21:01, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes, you are right. UserXpetVarpet ( talk) 23:45, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
What is the justification for keeping this article in the category "Russian war crimes in Ukraine" when there is no consensus that Russia was behind the attack? The body of the article does not justify this assertion. 79.144.76.2 ( talk) 13:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
" Donetsk People's Republic said that the attack was made by Tochka-U tactical missile system used by Ukrainian forces, which was shot down by the DPR Armed Forces" So by their account this does not seem to be a deliberated attack on the civilian center, instead the missile was shot down and fragments hit the civilians? Sgnpkd ( talk) 17:19, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Should this article be expanded with the attack of 3 May? report example 82.174.61.58 ( talk) 21:26, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Volunteer Marek, what did you mean by "sources which have a history of spreading fake news and disinfo"? I don't see any deprecated sources here and while I understand the concerns about using Russian sources in general, here they are used for reporting the position of the DNR (separatist) authorities. If you think they are not reliable for *that*, happy to discuss it at WP:RSN. Note that you also reverted some details I've added and that the sentence "Independent analysis stated that the rocket had been fired from Russian-controlled territory" has a wrong reference to the Guardian article which says nothing about it. Alaexis ¿question? 20:14, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
...is not a WP:RS and references to his views on the subject are WP:UNDUE. In fact, as far as I know, the Conflict Intelligence Team did not publish a proper report on the incident. There's no analysis, no research, no field work. We just have an interview to Ruslan Leviev released by a youtube channel, Популярная политика and/or Nastoyaschee Vremya, whose contents were reported by Ukranskaia Pravda. Note that the interview was released in the immediate aftermath of the attack, the following day. The ballistic arguments one can read on Ukr Pravda, based on the direction the missile is pointing, are ludicrous - one cannot understand the direction of a missile from one picture. So no serious investigation has been done, this doesn't pass the threshold of WP:V and I don't think we should report it. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 23:33, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
A conclusion, even if preliminary, by the Conflict Intelligence Team? I might have missed the source, obviously, but I've just seen an interview to Ruslan Leviev (who is obviously not a "team"... and who shared his views, but did not reach any firm conclusion) on a youtube channel, plus a printed account on that interview by Ukr Pravda. Is there anything else? Do you think that that is a WP:RS on the question "where did the missile come from?". Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 22:18, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
Ruslan Leviev, founder of a Russian analytical group that uses open-source data to track military activities, said photos from the incident suggest the missile flew from Russian-controlled territory and was not intercepted.
I added a few sources to the article (Reuters, which for some reason had been removed from the article; Euronews, Le Figaro, Fatto quotidiano); I also used a by-passing reference to the incident in a Washington Post article, plus info from a Human Rights Report on cluster munition. There are more sources, but they basically repeat what we already know ( Berliner Zeitung, Der Spiegel, Repubblica). I guess it's not for me to do it, but I think that the template:Notability should now be removed. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 00:04, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:09, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
2022 Donetsk attack → March 2022 Donetsk attack – There was another attack on June 2022, see Maisky Market attack. The current title is ambiguous and problematic. Super Ψ Dro 07:41, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Similarly to other proposals i made in several bombing articles, i suggest merging this article and other articles about bombings in Donetsk into an " Bombing of Donetsk" article, as all these articles are pretty small and on the same scope as each other. SnoopyBird ( talk) 21:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)