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I have started rewriting the article based on French article and references. The ref to the book of María Preckler has the ISBN code inside but it appears as wrong at the bottom page (despite it is ok in French page). Can sb correct it?
"Origins and family" and "Political orientations" section are done at this time
Pierre.alix (
talk) 18:41, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
,
The French wiki page on Valls flatly contradicts the English one - what is going on? He let people say his family were Republican Spanish who fled Franquism, but actually they were wealthy pro-Franco Catalans.
82.120.238.72 (
talk) 00:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi Pierre - I am going through this (albeit slowly) and tidying up some of the English expressions (I'm a native English speaker). As my knowledge of French politics is practically non-existent, I cannot comment on the veracity of the content - just on the language itself.
I will aim to proofread the whole article this week :-) Piccolapixxie ( talk) 20:24, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The article states Manuel Valls is Roman Catholic, but there is no reference in the text to his religious denomination. French socialists tend to be secularist unless declared otherwise; there is a section in the text about Secularism in fact. He has public declarations regarding his position on "demanding secularism" and has been accused of being a hard-liner on secularism (see: [1]). I think the Roman Catholic item should be removed because (1) it does not appear in the original French page, (2) his political orientation seems secular so ew need som proof about being Catholic before stating this as a fact (3) the only Catholic reference is the text is about his grandfather and being born in Barcelona does not mean, statistically, you are automatically a Catholic (only 59 % of Catalans practice some religion). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enric ( talk • contribs) 12:17, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
References
The opening of the article states that he's from the social-liberal wing of the French Socialist Party, but later in the article, it lists his views on social issues, and they seem anything but on quite a few of the highlighted issues. He sounds like a centrist to me, at best. -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 05:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
82.224.103.123 ( talk) 21:18, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
I am quite confused by his comparison to Scandinavian social democracy. He is a centre-right Third Way-style social democrat and has virtually nothing in common with traditional Scandinavian social democracy. (and yes, I mean to call him centre-right) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.75.121 ( talk) 00:36, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
And what does supporting Israel have to do with being right-wing? It's about what is morally just, not conservatism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.150.252 ( talk) 04:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
"Valls has always been a supporter of Israel in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict". This is actually wrong. Valls is currently a strong supporter of Israel but a few years ago he was a true supporter of Palestine. There are a lot of testimonials, videos, and articles about it. There's also a journalist investigation on it (a book has be released). On the other hand, I can't find much information about why he did change side or if he fakes one of the two alliances. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.8.117.85 ( talk) 00:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC) His wife is Jewish. 81.251.214.103 ( talk) 18:18, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
The bits I have removed recently were very poor and synthesised in a massively inaccurate and misleading manner. One phrase said that he "supports the right to wear the Jewish kippa" which makes no sense out of context. In fact he was reacting to a phrase from Marine Le Pen in 2012 suggesting that both Islamic attire and kippas be banned from public space. Since that has never really been an issue, it makes no sense to put it here. Another phrase claims that he "favours banning muslim veils from universities". "Muslim veils" doesn't mean anything in English (the French use the word "voile" variously to mean face veils and headscarves), and the source is a phrase from 2010 when he said it was "worth listening to" which is not the same thing as endorsing the statement. Seeing that he has not done this either as interior minister or prime minister, stating that he favours such a ban is clearly nonsense. You don't write a good article about a politician by cherry-picking statements over the years and setting them in stone as that person's opinions. Mezigue ( talk) 09:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's a good idea to copy-paste Le Point when it says "sheltered priests who were persecuted by Trotskyists and anarchists". Le Point is not an encyclopedia, it's the equivalent of some "tabloïds", with a right-wing bias. The term "persecuted" is very strong, for a point which is strongly disputed by historians but where it's relatively clear that there is no high-level political planning of persecutions, and that an important number of those "persecuted" peoples where actually supporters of the fascist coup. This term mainly comes from christians, who typically use the word "persecution" very easily and love having tons of saints. There is a difference between on the one hand being persecuted for only what you are, and on the other hand being suspected because you work for a pro-fascist organisation (Spain is not Germany, the Church supported Franco very openly). Additionally, there were no trotskists in Spain, or at least not enough to have any significance. In 1935-1936 it's still a bit early to speak about Trotskysm anyway. I guess they are speaking about POUM militias, given that "trotskysm" was a common accusation sent to them by the NKVD. I'm going to replace the expression by "sheltered priests who were fleeing from the Red Terror", with a link to the Red Terror page. I think it will be more neutral, more exact and more complete. J.frison ( talk) 21:23, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think there were some good faith edits that were reverted by users. To prevent further confusion, I would like to ask the users to choose which image is the best for Manuel Valls — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom Abercrombie ( talk • contribs) 03:00, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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I have started rewriting the article based on French article and references. The ref to the book of María Preckler has the ISBN code inside but it appears as wrong at the bottom page (despite it is ok in French page). Can sb correct it?
"Origins and family" and "Political orientations" section are done at this time
Pierre.alix (
talk) 18:41, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
,
The French wiki page on Valls flatly contradicts the English one - what is going on? He let people say his family were Republican Spanish who fled Franquism, but actually they were wealthy pro-Franco Catalans.
82.120.238.72 (
talk) 00:43, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi Pierre - I am going through this (albeit slowly) and tidying up some of the English expressions (I'm a native English speaker). As my knowledge of French politics is practically non-existent, I cannot comment on the veracity of the content - just on the language itself.
I will aim to proofread the whole article this week :-) Piccolapixxie ( talk) 20:24, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The article states Manuel Valls is Roman Catholic, but there is no reference in the text to his religious denomination. French socialists tend to be secularist unless declared otherwise; there is a section in the text about Secularism in fact. He has public declarations regarding his position on "demanding secularism" and has been accused of being a hard-liner on secularism (see: [1]). I think the Roman Catholic item should be removed because (1) it does not appear in the original French page, (2) his political orientation seems secular so ew need som proof about being Catholic before stating this as a fact (3) the only Catholic reference is the text is about his grandfather and being born in Barcelona does not mean, statistically, you are automatically a Catholic (only 59 % of Catalans practice some religion). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enric ( talk • contribs) 12:17, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
References
The opening of the article states that he's from the social-liberal wing of the French Socialist Party, but later in the article, it lists his views on social issues, and they seem anything but on quite a few of the highlighted issues. He sounds like a centrist to me, at best. -- Criticalthinker ( talk) 05:40, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
82.224.103.123 ( talk) 21:18, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
I am quite confused by his comparison to Scandinavian social democracy. He is a centre-right Third Way-style social democrat and has virtually nothing in common with traditional Scandinavian social democracy. (and yes, I mean to call him centre-right) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.75.121 ( talk) 00:36, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
And what does supporting Israel have to do with being right-wing? It's about what is morally just, not conservatism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.150.252 ( talk) 04:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
"Valls has always been a supporter of Israel in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict". This is actually wrong. Valls is currently a strong supporter of Israel but a few years ago he was a true supporter of Palestine. There are a lot of testimonials, videos, and articles about it. There's also a journalist investigation on it (a book has be released). On the other hand, I can't find much information about why he did change side or if he fakes one of the two alliances. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.8.117.85 ( talk) 00:50, 14 June 2014 (UTC) His wife is Jewish. 81.251.214.103 ( talk) 18:18, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
The bits I have removed recently were very poor and synthesised in a massively inaccurate and misleading manner. One phrase said that he "supports the right to wear the Jewish kippa" which makes no sense out of context. In fact he was reacting to a phrase from Marine Le Pen in 2012 suggesting that both Islamic attire and kippas be banned from public space. Since that has never really been an issue, it makes no sense to put it here. Another phrase claims that he "favours banning muslim veils from universities". "Muslim veils" doesn't mean anything in English (the French use the word "voile" variously to mean face veils and headscarves), and the source is a phrase from 2010 when he said it was "worth listening to" which is not the same thing as endorsing the statement. Seeing that he has not done this either as interior minister or prime minister, stating that he favours such a ban is clearly nonsense. You don't write a good article about a politician by cherry-picking statements over the years and setting them in stone as that person's opinions. Mezigue ( talk) 09:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's a good idea to copy-paste Le Point when it says "sheltered priests who were persecuted by Trotskyists and anarchists". Le Point is not an encyclopedia, it's the equivalent of some "tabloïds", with a right-wing bias. The term "persecuted" is very strong, for a point which is strongly disputed by historians but where it's relatively clear that there is no high-level political planning of persecutions, and that an important number of those "persecuted" peoples where actually supporters of the fascist coup. This term mainly comes from christians, who typically use the word "persecution" very easily and love having tons of saints. There is a difference between on the one hand being persecuted for only what you are, and on the other hand being suspected because you work for a pro-fascist organisation (Spain is not Germany, the Church supported Franco very openly). Additionally, there were no trotskists in Spain, or at least not enough to have any significance. In 1935-1936 it's still a bit early to speak about Trotskysm anyway. I guess they are speaking about POUM militias, given that "trotskysm" was a common accusation sent to them by the NKVD. I'm going to replace the expression by "sheltered priests who were fleeing from the Red Terror", with a link to the Red Terror page. I think it will be more neutral, more exact and more complete. J.frison ( talk) 21:23, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I think there were some good faith edits that were reverted by users. To prevent further confusion, I would like to ask the users to choose which image is the best for Manuel Valls — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom Abercrombie ( talk • contribs) 03:00, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
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