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FIRESTAR, Why do you keep deleting changes???
I disagree
Basing your edits on your own experience is unfortunately
original research. Chia's teachings are an idiosyncratic blend of sex-cult
Tantrism and
Taoism with some
McDojo chicanery thrown in to boot. I am going to partially restore the earlier version. --
Fire Star 火星
18:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Please cite these idea: Chia is new age, he is not well established, there is controversy over his teachings in China, the Jing-Qi question. Also, please remove any idea that Chia is a "self proclaimed healer" as he requires CNT and other teachers to have case reports showing the efficacy of their work. I am sure these could be made available if one is bias against Chia (for some reason) and not willing to beleive his integrity (or at least not wanting others to, for some reason.) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.235.35.163 (
talk •
contribs)
Thank you for clearing that up a bit. Yes New Age vendors such as which? Where does Rick Ross claim this sex cult idea? I think any Taoist scholar would tell you that Chias sexual techniques and respetability int he sacred Taoist tradition is respectable. The inner structure is an idea Chia made. Chang Sang Feng sis not say much of anything about, did he? Iron Shirt Chi Kung has thousands of different versions. How can we know which is the true one? All of them are valid. Master Chia is friends with Grandmaster Yuanming Zhang. He has been recognized in the East West world Qigong federation with the likes of other master qigong teachers like Lam Kam Chuen of Shaolin.
Chan Buddhism is a vast subject and not all sects are celibate, for sure. One the art print from High Pine Mountain, it shows how Bodhidharma and Lao Tzu come together representing the Universal Tao, a modern Taoist group. A search on google for "Rick ross mantak chia" yields nothing, nothing at Ross's website too. I agree Chia does not represnt all of taoism. In the West, however, he is clearly the most popular teacher. The Tajiquan families are not representative of what Chia teaches. Chia is a Taoist and Tai Chia families are peoples who took the original tai chi (derived from either Chen or in my opninion more likely, Chang Sang Feng) lineage and changed it. True there is no way to measure a "master" excpet perhaps for personal opinion and looking at who tey studied with. Chia has studied with the great tai chi masters of our time, if you care to look into it. When you say "his results are all based on claims" where can you show evidence of the opposite for the supposed real teachers? Master Chia's lineage appears to be the most real...he explains how learning long 108 forms is not really what is important. The tai chi he teaches on his level two tai chi chi kung, he says, is derived from the palace guard (forgot what dynasty). The reason a shorter form is prefered is that it includes all the benefits when repeated and allows for more awareness of the inner structure. Master Chia covers the internal alchemy 9 times more deeply than any other tai chi "family" teaching and therefore his system, in my opinion, has a lot more integrity and usefulness. Without knowing the subtle aspects of tai chi and qi gong, a practitioner will certaintly hurt themself and die before they had to. What do you mean his results are all based on "claims"? What qualifies the opposite of a "claim"? What constitutes "blindly"? I have studied many forms and met with a few Wu teachers. I have been in touc with the chairman of the Wu taji research institute...numerous highly accomplished "family" stylists also have deep respect for Mantak Chia, who also studied with the families in addition to real taoists. He is friends with Grandmaster Yuanming Zhang. Tom Clancy wrote an article for his website. Tiger Woods is featured as a student at Tao Garden. I have never met Chia myself and have to inclination to "advertise" for him. I used to be addicted to sex and studying Mantak Chias system helped me control my energy and gain dicipline throug the study of taji and qigong. I can say I have been healed very deeply by studying Master Chias system. Although his teachings are not perfect (and cost a bit of money), he has done a tremendous serivice to many around the world who do not have access to the inner Taoist teachings. He will continue to heal many through these teachings. To see what level Chia's teachings are on, look at: http://www.taohealingarts.com/changsbio.html Mantak Chia, like Dr. Chang, teaches about semen retention. This is a subject that numerous Taoist teach about. Look at Dan Reid, Jolan Chang, and many others. I have also read that retention is a thing that Buddhists practice in the book "tao and longevity" and this book gives both pros and cons, Taoist and non. It is written by a Chinese. Another auther who touches on this point is Alex Anatole, he says that it is not natural to retain too much semen. In the end, it is a balance: to come or not to come. Yes, it does enhance martial power in potential. Young men, like myself, can afford to ejaculate once every 4 days or so. As you become older, like at 40, you need to slow down and ejaculate once every 2 weeks or so. Monthly after sixty...there are different guidlines for different people/ages, but the point is that this is a valid science and mentioned by Huang Ti. There is no doubt that Taoists transform jing to chi to shen, and then emptiness. The energy is replenished with qigong movements and taji that works with the three treasures, of course. Thank you for considering these points, it is fruitful to engage in this discussion.
I really think this article needs to be mosty re-written for accuracy. The paragraph about sexual energy is really not very helpful to the reader. Also, the claim that Chia addresses te spiritual side of a human being is unfounded. The UT system addresses both physical and spiritual holisticaly...while most teacher address one or the other, Chia is among the rare few who address both polarities of Heaven and Earth.
I'm not a fan of Mantak Chia personally - while I like the fact that he openly shares a lot of material that has been kept secret for a long time I've found his work to miss details - perhaps this is also his style of expression. I not sure why someone who doesn't seem to like him very much would want to put a wiki up here though.
Wow, this terrible short article has spawned such a lively discussion! Why not create a separate, maybe long, section for criticism?
As an outsider (who an encyclopedic article should be written for), I couldn't care less who respects who. Looks like all can agree he's a businessman and not a monk or a pastor, so why not describe what he does for a living and who he's done it for? In particular, why is he notable if his teachings are so indistinguishable from his peers that plagiarism could plausibly go either way? Potatoswatter 07:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Why did someone delete the reference to Lee Erwin's article and regarding Yudelove, Lewis and Win? Whats up?
Recently there have been some additions to the article with enthusiastic descriptions of Chia's services. Unfortunately, while sourced from Chia's site, they aren't sourced from anywhere else and sound like they came from a travel brochure, so I've toned them down quite a bit. They, and other bits of the article that stem exclusively from primary sources, will eventually be removed if adequate citations can't be found. -- Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων ( talk) 15:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't have the time to edit this article down to the facts, but I think someone should do it.
As a Chi Kung teacher, I can say that Mr Chia is not an outright fraud: he really does have some valuable knowledge. On the other hand, it is undeniable that he does charge a lot of money (as of course do a lot of other people selling other products such as iPhones, expensive watches, sex toys etc, that no-one is forced to buy: it's unclear to me at what point one draws a line and says that this is something other than the simple and appropriate functioning of the law of supply and demand).
The following seem to me to be inappropriate in the main body of the article:
Praising the benefits of the practice
Comparisons to other authors and teachers - favorable or unfavorable - unless designed to illuminate lineage
Recounting of Mr Chia's views on subjects other than his main area of expertise, unless perhaps corralled in a separate suitably-labeled section.
Perhaps what this article needs is for all expressions of opinion, positive and negative, to be removed from the main text, placed in a 'controversies' section, and properly sourced.
174.21.159.152 (
talk)
18:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
15 seconds into this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlGXQftctJ0 he says that he was born July 1944. -- VanBuren ( talk) 12:30, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I added the POV maintenance template because this article reads like an advert. In particular there seems to be very little in terms of dissenting or skeptical discussion of the subject matter. I think there's a lot of room for improvement. Fragglet ( talk) 17:43, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
https://www.universal-tao.com/master_chia.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 03:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mantak Chia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
FIRESTAR, Why do you keep deleting changes???
I disagree
Basing your edits on your own experience is unfortunately
original research. Chia's teachings are an idiosyncratic blend of sex-cult
Tantrism and
Taoism with some
McDojo chicanery thrown in to boot. I am going to partially restore the earlier version. --
Fire Star 火星
18:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Please cite these idea: Chia is new age, he is not well established, there is controversy over his teachings in China, the Jing-Qi question. Also, please remove any idea that Chia is a "self proclaimed healer" as he requires CNT and other teachers to have case reports showing the efficacy of their work. I am sure these could be made available if one is bias against Chia (for some reason) and not willing to beleive his integrity (or at least not wanting others to, for some reason.) —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.235.35.163 (
talk •
contribs)
Thank you for clearing that up a bit. Yes New Age vendors such as which? Where does Rick Ross claim this sex cult idea? I think any Taoist scholar would tell you that Chias sexual techniques and respetability int he sacred Taoist tradition is respectable. The inner structure is an idea Chia made. Chang Sang Feng sis not say much of anything about, did he? Iron Shirt Chi Kung has thousands of different versions. How can we know which is the true one? All of them are valid. Master Chia is friends with Grandmaster Yuanming Zhang. He has been recognized in the East West world Qigong federation with the likes of other master qigong teachers like Lam Kam Chuen of Shaolin.
Chan Buddhism is a vast subject and not all sects are celibate, for sure. One the art print from High Pine Mountain, it shows how Bodhidharma and Lao Tzu come together representing the Universal Tao, a modern Taoist group. A search on google for "Rick ross mantak chia" yields nothing, nothing at Ross's website too. I agree Chia does not represnt all of taoism. In the West, however, he is clearly the most popular teacher. The Tajiquan families are not representative of what Chia teaches. Chia is a Taoist and Tai Chia families are peoples who took the original tai chi (derived from either Chen or in my opninion more likely, Chang Sang Feng) lineage and changed it. True there is no way to measure a "master" excpet perhaps for personal opinion and looking at who tey studied with. Chia has studied with the great tai chi masters of our time, if you care to look into it. When you say "his results are all based on claims" where can you show evidence of the opposite for the supposed real teachers? Master Chia's lineage appears to be the most real...he explains how learning long 108 forms is not really what is important. The tai chi he teaches on his level two tai chi chi kung, he says, is derived from the palace guard (forgot what dynasty). The reason a shorter form is prefered is that it includes all the benefits when repeated and allows for more awareness of the inner structure. Master Chia covers the internal alchemy 9 times more deeply than any other tai chi "family" teaching and therefore his system, in my opinion, has a lot more integrity and usefulness. Without knowing the subtle aspects of tai chi and qi gong, a practitioner will certaintly hurt themself and die before they had to. What do you mean his results are all based on "claims"? What qualifies the opposite of a "claim"? What constitutes "blindly"? I have studied many forms and met with a few Wu teachers. I have been in touc with the chairman of the Wu taji research institute...numerous highly accomplished "family" stylists also have deep respect for Mantak Chia, who also studied with the families in addition to real taoists. He is friends with Grandmaster Yuanming Zhang. Tom Clancy wrote an article for his website. Tiger Woods is featured as a student at Tao Garden. I have never met Chia myself and have to inclination to "advertise" for him. I used to be addicted to sex and studying Mantak Chias system helped me control my energy and gain dicipline throug the study of taji and qigong. I can say I have been healed very deeply by studying Master Chias system. Although his teachings are not perfect (and cost a bit of money), he has done a tremendous serivice to many around the world who do not have access to the inner Taoist teachings. He will continue to heal many through these teachings. To see what level Chia's teachings are on, look at: http://www.taohealingarts.com/changsbio.html Mantak Chia, like Dr. Chang, teaches about semen retention. This is a subject that numerous Taoist teach about. Look at Dan Reid, Jolan Chang, and many others. I have also read that retention is a thing that Buddhists practice in the book "tao and longevity" and this book gives both pros and cons, Taoist and non. It is written by a Chinese. Another auther who touches on this point is Alex Anatole, he says that it is not natural to retain too much semen. In the end, it is a balance: to come or not to come. Yes, it does enhance martial power in potential. Young men, like myself, can afford to ejaculate once every 4 days or so. As you become older, like at 40, you need to slow down and ejaculate once every 2 weeks or so. Monthly after sixty...there are different guidlines for different people/ages, but the point is that this is a valid science and mentioned by Huang Ti. There is no doubt that Taoists transform jing to chi to shen, and then emptiness. The energy is replenished with qigong movements and taji that works with the three treasures, of course. Thank you for considering these points, it is fruitful to engage in this discussion.
I really think this article needs to be mosty re-written for accuracy. The paragraph about sexual energy is really not very helpful to the reader. Also, the claim that Chia addresses te spiritual side of a human being is unfounded. The UT system addresses both physical and spiritual holisticaly...while most teacher address one or the other, Chia is among the rare few who address both polarities of Heaven and Earth.
I'm not a fan of Mantak Chia personally - while I like the fact that he openly shares a lot of material that has been kept secret for a long time I've found his work to miss details - perhaps this is also his style of expression. I not sure why someone who doesn't seem to like him very much would want to put a wiki up here though.
Wow, this terrible short article has spawned such a lively discussion! Why not create a separate, maybe long, section for criticism?
As an outsider (who an encyclopedic article should be written for), I couldn't care less who respects who. Looks like all can agree he's a businessman and not a monk or a pastor, so why not describe what he does for a living and who he's done it for? In particular, why is he notable if his teachings are so indistinguishable from his peers that plagiarism could plausibly go either way? Potatoswatter 07:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Why did someone delete the reference to Lee Erwin's article and regarding Yudelove, Lewis and Win? Whats up?
Recently there have been some additions to the article with enthusiastic descriptions of Chia's services. Unfortunately, while sourced from Chia's site, they aren't sourced from anywhere else and sound like they came from a travel brochure, so I've toned them down quite a bit. They, and other bits of the article that stem exclusively from primary sources, will eventually be removed if adequate citations can't be found. -- Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων ( talk) 15:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't have the time to edit this article down to the facts, but I think someone should do it.
As a Chi Kung teacher, I can say that Mr Chia is not an outright fraud: he really does have some valuable knowledge. On the other hand, it is undeniable that he does charge a lot of money (as of course do a lot of other people selling other products such as iPhones, expensive watches, sex toys etc, that no-one is forced to buy: it's unclear to me at what point one draws a line and says that this is something other than the simple and appropriate functioning of the law of supply and demand).
The following seem to me to be inappropriate in the main body of the article:
Praising the benefits of the practice
Comparisons to other authors and teachers - favorable or unfavorable - unless designed to illuminate lineage
Recounting of Mr Chia's views on subjects other than his main area of expertise, unless perhaps corralled in a separate suitably-labeled section.
Perhaps what this article needs is for all expressions of opinion, positive and negative, to be removed from the main text, placed in a 'controversies' section, and properly sourced.
174.21.159.152 (
talk)
18:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
15 seconds into this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlGXQftctJ0 he says that he was born July 1944. -- VanBuren ( talk) 12:30, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
I added the POV maintenance template because this article reads like an advert. In particular there seems to be very little in terms of dissenting or skeptical discussion of the subject matter. I think there's a lot of room for improvement. Fragglet ( talk) 17:43, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
https://www.universal-tao.com/master_chia.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 03:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mantak Chia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:50, 15 January 2018 (UTC)