This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I have just renamed and moved sections as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian cities, so if you think you see a major change, it is just a shuffling around of sections. Nothing to be alarmed of.-- PremKudva Talk 11:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Good move Kensplanet ( talk) 12:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Please note that there is no Tulu film industry worth talking about in Mangalore. There are no film studios, noteworthy producers of state or national claim operating in the city. An occasional movie comes more out of grit than out of an "industry", just like the very occasional Konkani movie. Not worth a mention especially in the lead as mentioned by El_C.-- PremKudva Talk 04:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The term of the Mangalore City Corporation ended last year. Elections were held and the BJP has come to power. But the new council has yet to take charge, until such time the DC is in charge of the city's affairs. This is why I had belated removed the name of the last mayor (it should have been removed as soon as her term was over last year,) but Kensplanet has unknowingly added it back. I am removing it.-- PremKudva Talk 04:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The Cuisine section looks very empty. Can we have a Image there. The Image (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Neer_Dosa.jpg) shows a Neer Dosa, a unique dish of Mangalore. Please tell me whether can we have it there or no. The Image is free from Flickr, or else it's absolutely not possible uploading it.
If not Neer Dosa, can we have a Beebe or Cashew upkari image from here
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cashew-upkari.jpg These images are free and I have uploaded it on WikiMedia Commons. ========
Kensplanet (
talk) 19:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I feel there is some misconception that Mangalooru is a kananda name. The very fact that it is derived is from Mangaladevi Temple, even by tulu it would be called as Mangalooru only. The Mangala & Ooru are the same in kannada & tulu. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 09:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
This is the wiki page for Gokarnanatheshwara Temple as requested by Kensplanet. But do not place the temple image you had placed here on that page. It is not a good quality image of the temple. In fact the temple is in the background, what is in the foreground is the temple tank with a statue of Shiva. I would prefer if you had an image that showed the front view of the temple during day time, or a tripod steadied night image.-- PremKudva Talk 04:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Note to editors, just delete external links that don't concern the article. No explanation required.-- PremKudva Talk 03:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
It would be nice if someone could upload pics of Pumpwell circle or Bunsts hostel circle instead of Nanthoor cross pic which looks very shabby. I would also suggest deletion of autorickshaw image as there is nothing sepcial about a Mangalorean auto. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 08:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I am happy to say that Rediff news has posted a set of three images from the Mangalore entry on to their article on Mangalore Mangalore: The new real estate boom town, it also appears on pages 3 and 6 of the 6 page article.-- PremKudva Talk 06:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I think this Article needs to be reassesed. It no longer looks like a B-Class article. Each and every section has adequate data. Mangalore has just a population of 0.6 million. I think we have provided enough details on the city.--->>> Kensplanet ( talk) 11:25, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
While battery may be pronounced as buthery by the locals, it actually means Artillery battery.-- PremKudva Talk 11:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Where do we put the mentioned details below :
There is nothing like Mangalore Police. The police force is known as Dakshina Kannada District Police -- Crazysoul ( talk) 12:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The DK police is not headed by a Commissioner. It is headed by SP (Superintendent of Police). Police Comisionarates are currently only in Bangalore, Hubli-Dharwad and Mysore for Karnataka. However there is a proposal to set up a Police commissionerate in Mangalore which is yet to be accomplished. The main criteria for setting up a police commissionerate is that the city should have a population of more than 10 lakhs. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 19:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I have recently added these two templates in the See Also section. These Templates may not be accurate. For example, some localities mentioned in the Template came not fall under Mangalore City limits. Editors who have a good knowledge of the city are kindly requested to edit and remove unnecessary localities.-->> Kensplanet ( talk) 16:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I want to know the current status of the article.
Thanks,
Kensplanet (
talk) 09:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Some comments:
Overall it is quite an extensive article and here's what i think needs to be done.
Comments by Editors of the Page
Some comments:
Done.
Both these have been added to the To-do list for Mangalore. Soon, the editors of this page will do the necessary modifications.______ Kensplanet ( talk) 13:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Overall it is quite an extensive article and here's what i think needs to be done.
Done. The word Kadali fruit means Banana-->> Kensplanet ( talk) 17:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
No. I don't think so. They have copied from Wikipedia. If you check properly, the site mentions
Some pages may contain portions of text relating to certain topics obtained from wikipedia.org under the GNU FDL license--
Kensplanet (
talk) 17:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Done.
Both these have been added to the To-do list for Mangalore. Soon, the editors of this page will do the necessary modifications.______ Kensplanet ( talk) 13:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Done. It has been corrected. The corrected sentence is much more factual.
This article has been drastically improved and meets most of the standards of Wikipedia. A peer review is required on this article. All are requested to participate.-->> Kensplanet ( talk) 07:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I have gone thru the article:-
Comments by Editors
I have gone thru the article:-
-Done. Trivia from this section deleted.------- Kensplanet ( talk) 14:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Wpinman ( talk) 14:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Is the Mangalore City Corporation the best skyline Image. The world doesn't know Mangalore for its Corporation building. That Image is very much required in the Civic Administration section. This is the famous Netravati Railway Bridge Image. The Netravati Bridge is quite will known.==== Kensplanet ( talk) 14:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Bangalore article has vidhana soudha as its main pic. MCC building of Mangalore can be a similar pic for infobox. I think this would be the least controversial image for this position. There is nothing unique about Netravati river bridge. Hundreds of railway bridges across India have identical bridges. What's ur opinion? -- Crazysoul ( talk) 16:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, if some body can get its complete front view, it may be posted. The complete view is really good. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 06:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
History: i checked other articles..we are only supposed to make a general comment on industrialization and not mention any industries Kensplanet, regarding your above comment in your edit summary, you have nameed the Kudremukh plant in its image caption when you inserted it. If industry names are not to be mentioned then only one image may suffice for the page I think. Also you mention Mangalore witnessed an economic and industrial boom during the late nineteenth century in that caption. You meant 20th century possibly? Since during the late 19th century there was nothing much here.-- PremKudva Talk 10:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Communal riots have taken place even in 1992 ( ayodhya crisis) and even before that. Why do u need to give special importance to what happened in 2006. The city is still secular. Why do u want to malign the city for this particular incident? You should also not forget that the district police had brought the situation under control very quickly. Death toll didn't even reach double digits. If it was Mumbai, police would have watched the fun helplessly. Bangalore article doesn't talk anything about its communal or regional clashes. Why do u want only Mangalore article to host this info? And moreover is it an event worth to be recorded in history? Clashes between communities would have happened since centuries. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 18:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I also remember that there was communal tension in Mangalore in 1999, due to which our university exams were reschduled. Bangalore had also seen clashes between Kannadigas & Tamilians whenever Kaveri issue gathered steam. But nothing has been mentioned about that in Bangalore article. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 04:45, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet good show on completing the To-do list for Mangalore peer review.-- PremKudva Talk 10:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Which is th most accurate-- Mangaluru, Mangalooru or Mangalūru. The reader will surely get confused. I suggest we should go for Mangaluru throughout the article.======= Kensplanet ( talk) 07:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
The article is in very good shape, and very close to meeting the Good Article criteria. The prose is excellent, and it is relatively easy to read. It is well referenced. The lead is good. A few minor issues:
Other than that, I think the article is very good, and it can be promoted once these issues are addressed. I've placed the article on hold until this happens. Cheers! Dr. Cash ( talk) 16:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Article meets the GA criteria. It will be listed. Good work! Dr. Cash ( talk) 17:46, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed the sentence in the article that said that However, this name change has not been implemented due to opposition from Mangaloreans across the world. The reference provided also doesn't indicate that the name change has been withheld due to this reason. The name change of Mangalore and also the other cities has not taken place due to the Karnataka Govt not following certain procedures. Later after the Kumaraswamy Govt fell, the state under Presidents rule has not followed up. In all probabilities names of all the cities mentioned by the Govt be changed after a new Govt is formed. Unless there is a change of priorities from the new Govt.-- PremKudva Talk 06:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Regarding the undo by Crazysoul
I am sure the article would like to achieve FA status. Anything which occurs in the Lead has to reappear in the prose according to the rule of thumb. That's why, these sentences
Konkanis use the variant Kodial. The Bearys call it Maikala. Kannadigas use the variant Mangaluru for the city. In addition, the city is also known as Mangalapuram in Malayalam. have been readded.
Its basically a FA criterion. The article's status will be challenged by reviwers if anything in the Lead is not covered up in the Prose. Hope this explains why the sentences have been readded. Kensplanet Talk E-mail Contributions 13:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
My suggestion is that magaluru is not a variant. It is an official name in kannada. Others can be can be called as variants coz it doenst have any official status. And i dont think malayalam name is necessary. Then u need to add everything what tamilians, telugus, gujjus, or hindi people call it. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 03:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
What's the purpose of adding red links when the corresponding articles are not existing? -- Crazysoul ( talk) 04:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
But some of the items that have been red marked cannot be expanded to an artcile. e.g. DK telecom District, corporation bank park, etc -- Crazysoul ( talk) 09:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
How about launching a Wikiproject Mangalore which is dedicated to the South Canara and Udupi districts or Tulu Nadu? KennethJohn Talk E-mail Contributions 07:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I've seen several edits & reverts on the title of this section. It is not right to use the word government for the governing body of a city. The city is not run by the government, but a council. Almost all articles of various Indian cities use the title "Civic Administration" for this section. In India, the term "Government" can be used only for Delhi as it has its own legislative assembly. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because this article is already a GA. Suggestions to promote this article to FA status will be very much helpful.
Thanks, Kensplanet ( talk) 17:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: I think this is quite an interesting article and it seems to have a great deal of information in it. I think it needs some MOS clean up and a good copyedit to reach FA level. Here are some suggestions for improvement:
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Thankyou for the review, Kensplanet ( talk) 17:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
An Annonymous user by the IP 122.167.59.203 claims that Kannada is not a local language of Mangalore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mangalore&diff=221240653&oldid=221172765
Please explain your edits 122.167.59.203--->>> Kensplanet ( talk) 07:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
There are many unreliable sites which may fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V. I am removing all of them. So please do not bother about my edits regarding references. Regards, Kensplanet ( talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
It has been brought to notice in the peer Review that the Lead is not concise enough. It fails to include some data from each and every section. If you think you can put some good information in the Lead, then please do so. Regards, Kensplanet ( talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone put some details of Mangalore's jasmine popularly known as Mangalooru Mallige? -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Mangalorru is a variety of jasmine flower which is aavailable only in Mangalore. They are thinner in structure and more fragrant compared to Mysore jasmine.It can be put either under economy or geography-- Crazysoul ( talk) 09:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I think this Article is ready for a FAC. This Article incorporates enough data on the city. If the editors have any suggestions, any more data then now is the time to put it. Please let me know what you all think? Kensplanet ( talk) 12:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I am trying to clean up the prose but have a few questions about some content that I am not able to understand. I will list my questions below, to hopefully get a better sense of what the intention of the sentence is. Thanks AreJay ( talk) 01:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks AreJay I am going through these points [see Prose cleanup I] as well as some of the other editors here.-- PremKudva Talk 06:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I have added a image in .../wiki/Mangalore#Geography_and_climate section please review it. NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 17:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I think NITK image would be a more suitable candidate for the Education section. Even the name is clearly visible in front. Whereas the KPT image doesn't even have a signboard. Moreover Infosys is prominently visible in the background. One might have to mark & show which one is KPT for the newbies. I suggest replacing KPT image with NITK image. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 12:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Mangalore is currently a FAC. (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mangalore). Please help the article to promote it to FA status. Thanks, Kensplanet ( talk) 15:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Congrats everyone.. especially kensplanet for all the efforts that he had putforth -- Crazysoul ( talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada is the right order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary is not the right order. It should be strictly according to the no of native speakers of a language. As far as official languages go, all official things have to be mentioned in the Infobox. If you check, the official language has been mentioned Kannada in the Infobox.
For the Rest of the article (including the first line), we have to follow the native speakers order. No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
Best example is the Troy article. Although Troy is officially in Turkey and the official language of Troy is Turkish, but people belonging to the Greek ethnic group are the largest and hence Greek has been mentioned first. There are many such articles. The native speaker order is the right order Kensplanet Talk Contributions 08:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
They migrated from inland karnataka, thats from beyond the western ghats. Thats why these people are 'Ghattamithudkulu'locally.Probably you too can trace your origin to some place in inland karnataka Kannadiga Warrior I refuse to entertain this forumish discussion anymore. Because along with you, I'll be blocked too.. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 11:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet said No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
adding, neither you nor me owning this article. PS:For more than 2 years Kannada script is placed before Tulu script, now how can
User:Kensplanet change the order without gaining consensus? is he owning this article?
Kannadiga Warrior (
talk) 12:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
A poll to determine the opinions. all are welcome, anyone can vote here by adding SUPPORT in below options (NOTE: Supports by IP's/socks/newly registered accounts are not considered).
No consensus ->
Option 1=3
Option 2=3
No change in current order - Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary
Change the order to - Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada as per User:Kensplanet comments
Kenplsnet, I have right to end this poll because this poll is started by me. Kannadiga Warrior ( talk) 12:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.
You have no right over the contents and the poll now. Polls will be closed later by a common understanding. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 12:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Even though i'm a tuluva, i feel that official name of a city should be given the first place (i.e. Mangalore in English & Mangalooru in kannada). All other names are all unofficial & just orally used. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. Do we really have any statistics to prove that the number of speakers are in the same order? As some one rightly pointed out, we are not sure whether bearys outnumber konkanis or vice versa. And what about the malayalis who are also significant in number. Whatever website u may refer to, they only provide estimated figures & not actual. Somebody has also pointed out above that every mangalorean knows kannada, but same cannot be told for other languages. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
now, Follow the wikipolicy and close this discussion. Kannadiga Warrior ( talk) 03:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Kensplanet, It can be called height of ignoroance questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. All signboards, nameplates, shops, banks, postal dept, corporation, etc, use Mangalooru & not Kudla/Kodial/Maikala. I dont understand why you are so much against the word mangalooru which is derived from mangaladevi temple which is very much in the same city. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 08:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
It not 'for or against' any name, we are discussing the order in which it has to be written. It should be according to the no. of native speakers. kannada,Tulu,Konkani,Beary does not have any logic. Neither in ascending order or descending order. More over Kannada has been mentioned as official language in the infobox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.93.135 ( talk) 16:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The debate is not about official language. It is about the official name. Why do u want to hide the official name at last? It should come first. And who told that the names should be in the decreasing order of native speakers & not the name popularity or usage? Whether you like to hear it or not, you can't deny the fact that Mangalooru is a popular name 7 extensively used. Even buses plying in this area bear the name mangalooru. It doesnt imply that other languages are minorities. If you are so much keen on indicating the no. of speakers, u may put it at the demography section. Lets not be so jingoistic about unofficial names sidelining the original name. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
By far the most extensively used name is Kudla, No doubt. all buses mention mangaluru on the boards is only because they are using the official language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.98.28.90 ( talk) 17:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes ur right, I am currently in Saudi, and that does not stop me from making a comment here. Does it? since Tulu is mostly spoken in Mangalore,Kudla is naturally the most used word. mangaluru may be used only in documents that too Kannada documents. Kannada is used in this part only cos its the official lang of Karnataka. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.60.228 ( talk) 16:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
New Proposal of changing order
Mangaluru is not the official name of the city. If it is, prove it. Just because Kannada is the official language of Mangalore, so Mangaluru gets more importance over other names. For example, in the Mangalore City Corporation website, Mangaluru Mahanagarpalike is mentioned. So for other purposes. Can anyone prove it is the official name. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 12:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
It is really childish to ask anyone to prove that mangalooru is the official name. I really doubt whether you have lived in Mangalore. Anyone would laugh at this question -- Crazysoul ( talk) 15:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Premkudva, I'm not claiming that Mangaluru is the official name in English. I mentioned that Mangaluru is the offcial name in Kannada.Is there any doubt in that? All land records,official documents, history refer to this city as Mangaluru(in kannada) and not by any other name. Its easy to give weblinks as reference for the cities whose names have been renamed recently. But Mangalore has been known by its name since centuries. And the debate is being carried out in a tangential way as if there is no connection between Mangalore & mangalooru. Dear kensplanet, What according to you is official name in Kannada? If u say Kudla i beg to differ. Except for oral conversations in Tulu, this word doesnt have a standing while conversing in other local languages as well. You have even downplayed that argument that Mangalore city corporation website shows mangalooru mahanagarapalike just bcoz kannada is official language... If Kudla was the official name, it cud have been named Kudla mahanagarapalike. Can u tell me any one official or commercial establishent which uses the word Kudla? Is it possible for you to give links to prove that bengaluru is the official name of the Bangalore in kannada (remember not english) or Mumbai is the official name in marathi (not english) or dilli is the official name in hindi. or Mysooru is the official name in kannada(not english). If you can provide them, we'll explore similar source for mangalooru as welll. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 14:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes I agree with Kensplanet. The order of names should be decided by no. of native speakers. Just because Mangaluru is used in official documents(that too only Kannada Documents)we cannot ignore Kudla. We have to take the sentiments of Tuluvas (majority ethnic group)into consideration. The word Mangaluru is attached with Mangalore only b'cos Kannada is the official language of the state. We should follow the example of Troy article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.43.62 ( talk) 16:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
But u r ignoring the fact that mangalooru is more popular than Kudla.. Is popularity an ignorable factor? And i do not understand how placing kudla in the begining would be an indicator of taking majority into consideration. You are unnecessarily creating a language war here.... It also seems that anonyous edits are your own..... If u read the belgaum article, belagavu is written first even though marathi is a majority there.. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Again you are coming up with superficial figures. 2-3% Kannandigas? Whats ur source. And who told u that mangalooru is the word used by only kanadigas? And do u think only kannadigas visit Mangaladevi temple? Dont make your own assumptions. And regarding the Belgaum article, the article itself mentions that it has 75% marathis. And my reply was to your staement that Mangalooru may not be the official name in Kannada. And you haevnt yet replied what else is the official name in kannada. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 13:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The Poll has been closed since no strong consensus was established. Thanks everyone for discussing. Kensplanet T C 05:53, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
<ref name="mcc5">{{harvnb|Mangalore City Corporation|p=5|Ref=18}}</ref>
Someone has given the above harvnb reference in the Etymology section with three other occurances of this in the rest of the article. Exactly how are we supposed to check these references? The reference is clickable but gets you nowhere.-- PremKudva Talk 10:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
If we have the document in the Reference.......it should be
Repeating the same URL, Title, Publisher etc......again and again for individual references looks silly. In this case only the Page No. is different. Rest all parameters are the same. That's the reason, we have followed HARVNB Reference system, where only the Page number differs. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 06:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know what is Mangalorean in Beary. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 11:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we need to put a proper skyline of Mangalore rather than Town Hall pic there. There are many Town halls with the same architecture in a lot of places. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.108.178 ( talk) 17:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
1)Dr.Deviprasd shetty
2)Dr.B.R.Shetty
3)Aishwarya Rai
4)Vijay Mallya
5)Sunil Shetty
6)Shilpa Shetty
7)George Fernandese
8)Aravinda Adiga
9)Ravi Shastri
10)Shamitha Shetty
11)Deepika Padukone
12)Daya Nayak
13)Hansika Motwani
14)Sneha Ullal
15)Frieda Pinto
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumeetrshetty ( talk • contribs) 11:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Mangalore Article should be protected. And Non Autoconfirmed user should not be allowed for editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navaneeth nayak ( talk • contribs) 16:05, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I just moved last years conversations to the archives.-- PremKudva Talk 05:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Deepak D'souza, that TuluNadu is not an administrative region, but we need to mention this fact somewhere in the article somewhere. We can decide on where it should be mentioned. 188.54.84.236 ( talk) 05:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Added a statement of Mangalore being the largest town in Tulu Nadu. 188.52.51.34 ( talk) 08:37, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I have just renamed and moved sections as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Indian cities, so if you think you see a major change, it is just a shuffling around of sections. Nothing to be alarmed of.-- PremKudva Talk 11:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Good move Kensplanet ( talk) 12:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Please note that there is no Tulu film industry worth talking about in Mangalore. There are no film studios, noteworthy producers of state or national claim operating in the city. An occasional movie comes more out of grit than out of an "industry", just like the very occasional Konkani movie. Not worth a mention especially in the lead as mentioned by El_C.-- PremKudva Talk 04:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The term of the Mangalore City Corporation ended last year. Elections were held and the BJP has come to power. But the new council has yet to take charge, until such time the DC is in charge of the city's affairs. This is why I had belated removed the name of the last mayor (it should have been removed as soon as her term was over last year,) but Kensplanet has unknowingly added it back. I am removing it.-- PremKudva Talk 04:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
The Cuisine section looks very empty. Can we have a Image there. The Image (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Neer_Dosa.jpg) shows a Neer Dosa, a unique dish of Mangalore. Please tell me whether can we have it there or no. The Image is free from Flickr, or else it's absolutely not possible uploading it.
If not Neer Dosa, can we have a Beebe or Cashew upkari image from here
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cashew-upkari.jpg These images are free and I have uploaded it on WikiMedia Commons. ========
Kensplanet (
talk) 19:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I feel there is some misconception that Mangalooru is a kananda name. The very fact that it is derived is from Mangaladevi Temple, even by tulu it would be called as Mangalooru only. The Mangala & Ooru are the same in kannada & tulu. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 09:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
This is the wiki page for Gokarnanatheshwara Temple as requested by Kensplanet. But do not place the temple image you had placed here on that page. It is not a good quality image of the temple. In fact the temple is in the background, what is in the foreground is the temple tank with a statue of Shiva. I would prefer if you had an image that showed the front view of the temple during day time, or a tripod steadied night image.-- PremKudva Talk 04:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Note to editors, just delete external links that don't concern the article. No explanation required.-- PremKudva Talk 03:59, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
It would be nice if someone could upload pics of Pumpwell circle or Bunsts hostel circle instead of Nanthoor cross pic which looks very shabby. I would also suggest deletion of autorickshaw image as there is nothing sepcial about a Mangalorean auto. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 08:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I am happy to say that Rediff news has posted a set of three images from the Mangalore entry on to their article on Mangalore Mangalore: The new real estate boom town, it also appears on pages 3 and 6 of the 6 page article.-- PremKudva Talk 06:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I think this Article needs to be reassesed. It no longer looks like a B-Class article. Each and every section has adequate data. Mangalore has just a population of 0.6 million. I think we have provided enough details on the city.--->>> Kensplanet ( talk) 11:25, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
While battery may be pronounced as buthery by the locals, it actually means Artillery battery.-- PremKudva Talk 11:15, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Where do we put the mentioned details below :
There is nothing like Mangalore Police. The police force is known as Dakshina Kannada District Police -- Crazysoul ( talk) 12:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The DK police is not headed by a Commissioner. It is headed by SP (Superintendent of Police). Police Comisionarates are currently only in Bangalore, Hubli-Dharwad and Mysore for Karnataka. However there is a proposal to set up a Police commissionerate in Mangalore which is yet to be accomplished. The main criteria for setting up a police commissionerate is that the city should have a population of more than 10 lakhs. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 19:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I have recently added these two templates in the See Also section. These Templates may not be accurate. For example, some localities mentioned in the Template came not fall under Mangalore City limits. Editors who have a good knowledge of the city are kindly requested to edit and remove unnecessary localities.-->> Kensplanet ( talk) 16:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I want to know the current status of the article.
Thanks,
Kensplanet (
talk) 09:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Some comments:
Overall it is quite an extensive article and here's what i think needs to be done.
Comments by Editors of the Page
Some comments:
Done.
Both these have been added to the To-do list for Mangalore. Soon, the editors of this page will do the necessary modifications.______ Kensplanet ( talk) 13:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Overall it is quite an extensive article and here's what i think needs to be done.
Done. The word Kadali fruit means Banana-->> Kensplanet ( talk) 17:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
No. I don't think so. They have copied from Wikipedia. If you check properly, the site mentions
Some pages may contain portions of text relating to certain topics obtained from wikipedia.org under the GNU FDL license--
Kensplanet (
talk) 17:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Done.
Both these have been added to the To-do list for Mangalore. Soon, the editors of this page will do the necessary modifications.______ Kensplanet ( talk) 13:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Done. It has been corrected. The corrected sentence is much more factual.
This article has been drastically improved and meets most of the standards of Wikipedia. A peer review is required on this article. All are requested to participate.-->> Kensplanet ( talk) 07:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I have gone thru the article:-
Comments by Editors
I have gone thru the article:-
-Done. Trivia from this section deleted.------- Kensplanet ( talk) 14:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Wpinman ( talk) 14:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Is the Mangalore City Corporation the best skyline Image. The world doesn't know Mangalore for its Corporation building. That Image is very much required in the Civic Administration section. This is the famous Netravati Railway Bridge Image. The Netravati Bridge is quite will known.==== Kensplanet ( talk) 14:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Bangalore article has vidhana soudha as its main pic. MCC building of Mangalore can be a similar pic for infobox. I think this would be the least controversial image for this position. There is nothing unique about Netravati river bridge. Hundreds of railway bridges across India have identical bridges. What's ur opinion? -- Crazysoul ( talk) 16:47, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, if some body can get its complete front view, it may be posted. The complete view is really good. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 06:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
History: i checked other articles..we are only supposed to make a general comment on industrialization and not mention any industries Kensplanet, regarding your above comment in your edit summary, you have nameed the Kudremukh plant in its image caption when you inserted it. If industry names are not to be mentioned then only one image may suffice for the page I think. Also you mention Mangalore witnessed an economic and industrial boom during the late nineteenth century in that caption. You meant 20th century possibly? Since during the late 19th century there was nothing much here.-- PremKudva Talk 10:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Communal riots have taken place even in 1992 ( ayodhya crisis) and even before that. Why do u need to give special importance to what happened in 2006. The city is still secular. Why do u want to malign the city for this particular incident? You should also not forget that the district police had brought the situation under control very quickly. Death toll didn't even reach double digits. If it was Mumbai, police would have watched the fun helplessly. Bangalore article doesn't talk anything about its communal or regional clashes. Why do u want only Mangalore article to host this info? And moreover is it an event worth to be recorded in history? Clashes between communities would have happened since centuries. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 18:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I also remember that there was communal tension in Mangalore in 1999, due to which our university exams were reschduled. Bangalore had also seen clashes between Kannadigas & Tamilians whenever Kaveri issue gathered steam. But nothing has been mentioned about that in Bangalore article. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 04:45, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet good show on completing the To-do list for Mangalore peer review.-- PremKudva Talk 10:02, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Which is th most accurate-- Mangaluru, Mangalooru or Mangalūru. The reader will surely get confused. I suggest we should go for Mangaluru throughout the article.======= Kensplanet ( talk) 07:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
The article is in very good shape, and very close to meeting the Good Article criteria. The prose is excellent, and it is relatively easy to read. It is well referenced. The lead is good. A few minor issues:
Other than that, I think the article is very good, and it can be promoted once these issues are addressed. I've placed the article on hold until this happens. Cheers! Dr. Cash ( talk) 16:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Article meets the GA criteria. It will be listed. Good work! Dr. Cash ( talk) 17:46, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed the sentence in the article that said that However, this name change has not been implemented due to opposition from Mangaloreans across the world. The reference provided also doesn't indicate that the name change has been withheld due to this reason. The name change of Mangalore and also the other cities has not taken place due to the Karnataka Govt not following certain procedures. Later after the Kumaraswamy Govt fell, the state under Presidents rule has not followed up. In all probabilities names of all the cities mentioned by the Govt be changed after a new Govt is formed. Unless there is a change of priorities from the new Govt.-- PremKudva Talk 06:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Regarding the undo by Crazysoul
I am sure the article would like to achieve FA status. Anything which occurs in the Lead has to reappear in the prose according to the rule of thumb. That's why, these sentences
Konkanis use the variant Kodial. The Bearys call it Maikala. Kannadigas use the variant Mangaluru for the city. In addition, the city is also known as Mangalapuram in Malayalam. have been readded.
Its basically a FA criterion. The article's status will be challenged by reviwers if anything in the Lead is not covered up in the Prose. Hope this explains why the sentences have been readded. Kensplanet Talk E-mail Contributions 13:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
My suggestion is that magaluru is not a variant. It is an official name in kannada. Others can be can be called as variants coz it doenst have any official status. And i dont think malayalam name is necessary. Then u need to add everything what tamilians, telugus, gujjus, or hindi people call it. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 03:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
What's the purpose of adding red links when the corresponding articles are not existing? -- Crazysoul ( talk) 04:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
But some of the items that have been red marked cannot be expanded to an artcile. e.g. DK telecom District, corporation bank park, etc -- Crazysoul ( talk) 09:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
How about launching a Wikiproject Mangalore which is dedicated to the South Canara and Udupi districts or Tulu Nadu? KennethJohn Talk E-mail Contributions 07:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I've seen several edits & reverts on the title of this section. It is not right to use the word government for the governing body of a city. The city is not run by the government, but a council. Almost all articles of various Indian cities use the title "Civic Administration" for this section. In India, the term "Government" can be used only for Delhi as it has its own legislative assembly. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because this article is already a GA. Suggestions to promote this article to FA status will be very much helpful.
Thanks, Kensplanet ( talk) 17:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: I think this is quite an interesting article and it seems to have a great deal of information in it. I think it needs some MOS clean up and a good copyedit to reach FA level. Here are some suggestions for improvement:
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Thankyou for the review, Kensplanet ( talk) 17:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
An Annonymous user by the IP 122.167.59.203 claims that Kannada is not a local language of Mangalore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mangalore&diff=221240653&oldid=221172765
Please explain your edits 122.167.59.203--->>> Kensplanet ( talk) 07:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
There are many unreliable sites which may fail to meet WP:RS and WP:V. I am removing all of them. So please do not bother about my edits regarding references. Regards, Kensplanet ( talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
It has been brought to notice in the peer Review that the Lead is not concise enough. It fails to include some data from each and every section. If you think you can put some good information in the Lead, then please do so. Regards, Kensplanet ( talk) 08:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone put some details of Mangalore's jasmine popularly known as Mangalooru Mallige? -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:45, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Mangalorru is a variety of jasmine flower which is aavailable only in Mangalore. They are thinner in structure and more fragrant compared to Mysore jasmine.It can be put either under economy or geography-- Crazysoul ( talk) 09:24, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Well, I think this Article is ready for a FAC. This Article incorporates enough data on the city. If the editors have any suggestions, any more data then now is the time to put it. Please let me know what you all think? Kensplanet ( talk) 12:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I am trying to clean up the prose but have a few questions about some content that I am not able to understand. I will list my questions below, to hopefully get a better sense of what the intention of the sentence is. Thanks AreJay ( talk) 01:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks AreJay I am going through these points [see Prose cleanup I] as well as some of the other editors here.-- PremKudva Talk 06:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I have added a image in .../wiki/Mangalore#Geography_and_climate section please review it. NAvin Shetty Brahmavar 17:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I think NITK image would be a more suitable candidate for the Education section. Even the name is clearly visible in front. Whereas the KPT image doesn't even have a signboard. Moreover Infosys is prominently visible in the background. One might have to mark & show which one is KPT for the newbies. I suggest replacing KPT image with NITK image. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 12:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Mangalore is currently a FAC. (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mangalore). Please help the article to promote it to FA status. Thanks, Kensplanet ( talk) 15:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Congrats everyone.. especially kensplanet for all the efforts that he had putforth -- Crazysoul ( talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada is the right order. Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary is not the right order. It should be strictly according to the no of native speakers of a language. As far as official languages go, all official things have to be mentioned in the Infobox. If you check, the official language has been mentioned Kannada in the Infobox.
For the Rest of the article (including the first line), we have to follow the native speakers order. No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
Best example is the Troy article. Although Troy is officially in Turkey and the official language of Troy is Turkish, but people belonging to the Greek ethnic group are the largest and hence Greek has been mentioned first. There are many such articles. The native speaker order is the right order Kensplanet Talk Contributions 08:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
They migrated from inland karnataka, thats from beyond the western ghats. Thats why these people are 'Ghattamithudkulu'locally.Probably you too can trace your origin to some place in inland karnataka Kannadiga Warrior I refuse to entertain this forumish discussion anymore. Because along with you, I'll be blocked too.. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 11:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Kensplanet said No Govt. of K'taka or Mangalore City Corp owns this page.
adding, neither you nor me owning this article. PS:For more than 2 years Kannada script is placed before Tulu script, now how can
User:Kensplanet change the order without gaining consensus? is he owning this article?
Kannadiga Warrior (
talk) 12:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
A poll to determine the opinions. all are welcome, anyone can vote here by adding SUPPORT in below options (NOTE: Supports by IP's/socks/newly registered accounts are not considered).
No consensus ->
Option 1=3
Option 2=3
No change in current order - Kannada, Tulu, Konkani, Beary
Change the order to - Tulu, Konkani, Beary, Kannada as per User:Kensplanet comments
Kenplsnet, I have right to end this poll because this poll is started by me. Kannadiga Warrior ( talk) 12:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.
You have no right over the contents and the poll now. Polls will be closed later by a common understanding. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 12:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Even though i'm a tuluva, i feel that official name of a city should be given the first place (i.e. Mangalore in English & Mangalooru in kannada). All other names are all unofficial & just orally used. There's no logic that the no. of native speakers should be considered for sorting the names. Do we really have any statistics to prove that the number of speakers are in the same order? As some one rightly pointed out, we are not sure whether bearys outnumber konkanis or vice versa. And what about the malayalis who are also significant in number. Whatever website u may refer to, they only provide estimated figures & not actual. Somebody has also pointed out above that every mangalorean knows kannada, but same cannot be told for other languages. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 16:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
now, Follow the wikipolicy and close this discussion. Kannadiga Warrior ( talk) 03:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Kensplanet, It can be called height of ignoroance questioning the authenticity of the name Mangalooru in Kannada. All signboards, nameplates, shops, banks, postal dept, corporation, etc, use Mangalooru & not Kudla/Kodial/Maikala. I dont understand why you are so much against the word mangalooru which is derived from mangaladevi temple which is very much in the same city. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 08:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
It not 'for or against' any name, we are discussing the order in which it has to be written. It should be according to the no. of native speakers. kannada,Tulu,Konkani,Beary does not have any logic. Neither in ascending order or descending order. More over Kannada has been mentioned as official language in the infobox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.93.135 ( talk) 16:28, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The debate is not about official language. It is about the official name. Why do u want to hide the official name at last? It should come first. And who told that the names should be in the decreasing order of native speakers & not the name popularity or usage? Whether you like to hear it or not, you can't deny the fact that Mangalooru is a popular name 7 extensively used. Even buses plying in this area bear the name mangalooru. It doesnt imply that other languages are minorities. If you are so much keen on indicating the no. of speakers, u may put it at the demography section. Lets not be so jingoistic about unofficial names sidelining the original name. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:21, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
By far the most extensively used name is Kudla, No doubt. all buses mention mangaluru on the boards is only because they are using the official language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.98.28.90 ( talk) 17:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes ur right, I am currently in Saudi, and that does not stop me from making a comment here. Does it? since Tulu is mostly spoken in Mangalore,Kudla is naturally the most used word. mangaluru may be used only in documents that too Kannada documents. Kannada is used in this part only cos its the official lang of Karnataka. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.30.60.228 ( talk) 16:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
New Proposal of changing order
Mangaluru is not the official name of the city. If it is, prove it. Just because Kannada is the official language of Mangalore, so Mangaluru gets more importance over other names. For example, in the Mangalore City Corporation website, Mangaluru Mahanagarpalike is mentioned. So for other purposes. Can anyone prove it is the official name. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 12:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
It is really childish to ask anyone to prove that mangalooru is the official name. I really doubt whether you have lived in Mangalore. Anyone would laugh at this question -- Crazysoul ( talk) 15:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Dear Premkudva, I'm not claiming that Mangaluru is the official name in English. I mentioned that Mangaluru is the offcial name in Kannada.Is there any doubt in that? All land records,official documents, history refer to this city as Mangaluru(in kannada) and not by any other name. Its easy to give weblinks as reference for the cities whose names have been renamed recently. But Mangalore has been known by its name since centuries. And the debate is being carried out in a tangential way as if there is no connection between Mangalore & mangalooru. Dear kensplanet, What according to you is official name in Kannada? If u say Kudla i beg to differ. Except for oral conversations in Tulu, this word doesnt have a standing while conversing in other local languages as well. You have even downplayed that argument that Mangalore city corporation website shows mangalooru mahanagarapalike just bcoz kannada is official language... If Kudla was the official name, it cud have been named Kudla mahanagarapalike. Can u tell me any one official or commercial establishent which uses the word Kudla? Is it possible for you to give links to prove that bengaluru is the official name of the Bangalore in kannada (remember not english) or Mumbai is the official name in marathi (not english) or dilli is the official name in hindi. or Mysooru is the official name in kannada(not english). If you can provide them, we'll explore similar source for mangalooru as welll. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 14:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes I agree with Kensplanet. The order of names should be decided by no. of native speakers. Just because Mangaluru is used in official documents(that too only Kannada Documents)we cannot ignore Kudla. We have to take the sentiments of Tuluvas (majority ethnic group)into consideration. The word Mangaluru is attached with Mangalore only b'cos Kannada is the official language of the state. We should follow the example of Troy article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.43.62 ( talk) 16:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
But u r ignoring the fact that mangalooru is more popular than Kudla.. Is popularity an ignorable factor? And i do not understand how placing kudla in the begining would be an indicator of taking majority into consideration. You are unnecessarily creating a language war here.... It also seems that anonyous edits are your own..... If u read the belgaum article, belagavu is written first even though marathi is a majority there.. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 17:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Again you are coming up with superficial figures. 2-3% Kannandigas? Whats ur source. And who told u that mangalooru is the word used by only kanadigas? And do u think only kannadigas visit Mangaladevi temple? Dont make your own assumptions. And regarding the Belgaum article, the article itself mentions that it has 75% marathis. And my reply was to your staement that Mangalooru may not be the official name in Kannada. And you haevnt yet replied what else is the official name in kannada. -- Crazysoul ( talk) 13:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The Poll has been closed since no strong consensus was established. Thanks everyone for discussing. Kensplanet T C 05:53, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
<ref name="mcc5">{{harvnb|Mangalore City Corporation|p=5|Ref=18}}</ref>
Someone has given the above harvnb reference in the Etymology section with three other occurances of this in the rest of the article. Exactly how are we supposed to check these references? The reference is clickable but gets you nowhere.-- PremKudva Talk 10:58, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
If we have the document in the Reference.......it should be
Repeating the same URL, Title, Publisher etc......again and again for individual references looks silly. In this case only the Page No. is different. Rest all parameters are the same. That's the reason, we have followed HARVNB Reference system, where only the Page number differs. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 06:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know what is Mangalorean in Beary. Kensplanet Talk Contributions 11:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I think we need to put a proper skyline of Mangalore rather than Town Hall pic there. There are many Town halls with the same architecture in a lot of places. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.108.178 ( talk) 17:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
1)Dr.Deviprasd shetty
2)Dr.B.R.Shetty
3)Aishwarya Rai
4)Vijay Mallya
5)Sunil Shetty
6)Shilpa Shetty
7)George Fernandese
8)Aravinda Adiga
9)Ravi Shastri
10)Shamitha Shetty
11)Deepika Padukone
12)Daya Nayak
13)Hansika Motwani
14)Sneha Ullal
15)Frieda Pinto
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumeetrshetty ( talk • contribs) 11:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Mangalore Article should be protected. And Non Autoconfirmed user should not be allowed for editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Navaneeth nayak ( talk • contribs) 16:05, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
I just moved last years conversations to the archives.-- PremKudva Talk 05:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Deepak D'souza, that TuluNadu is not an administrative region, but we need to mention this fact somewhere in the article somewhere. We can decide on where it should be mentioned. 188.54.84.236 ( talk) 05:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Added a statement of Mangalore being the largest town in Tulu Nadu. 188.52.51.34 ( talk) 08:37, 23 October 2009 (UTC)