![]() | Manetho received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Manetho's work is usually spelled "Aegyptiaca" in English. The references need fixing. Rd232 12:48, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Also, I'm afraid I don't see the point of the Transmission drawing. It takes up a lot of space to describe something that really isn't that complicated. Rd232 12:54, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Reading through, the leader text doesn't seem to flow quite right to me, plus bits of it could be arguably POV. I've changed the leader text, but preserved the old version below and would appreciate thoughts and comments; does my new version change the meaning too much?
Manetho (circa 3rd century BC), alternatively known as Manethon of Sebennytos, was an Egyptian historian and priest from Sebennytos who lived during the Ptolemaic era. He recorded Aegyptiaca ("History of Egypt"), and had an astrological work, The Book of Sothis, attributed to him pseudonymously. His work is of great interest to Egyptologists and a prime piece of evidence for the chronology of the reigns of Pharaohs.
Manetho, also known as Manethon of Sebennytos, was an Egyptian historian and priest from Sebennytos who lived during the Ptolematic era, circa 3rd century BC. Manetho is credited with recording Aegyptica (History of Egypt) and for The Book of Sothis, an astrological work.
His work is considered to be of great interest to Egyptologists, and is often used as evidence for the chronology of the reigns of Pharoahs.
There is no question that Manetho wrote Aegyptiaca and did not write The Book of Sothis; that's not POV. I accept the rephrasing of the last sentence to "often used as evidence for." -- Peter Kirby 17:09, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand how the current version is POV. All students of Egyptian history accept that Manetho is a primary source, & that he published this information in a book called Aegyptica. (Some scholars quibble over just how many books Manetho wrote & what they were named, though.) I can't think of any other ancient writer who is creditted with writing either this specific book -- or any other by this name. And "Manethon" is nothing more than a hyper-literal variant of "Manetho". -- llywrch 21:04, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I removed {{Template:Hiero|Manetho ("Gift of Thoth")|<hiero>F40:X1-D36-G26-t:Z4</hiero>|align=right|era=pt}} since it has no basis in reality. Klompje7 15:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the article leaves me unclear whether he was Egyptian or Hellenistic Greek. Do we know? Thanks...
He was Egyptian, however he was Hellenized, he could speak and write in Greek. JJAshfiel 22:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
What Manetho is best known for whithin the scope of Jewish history his is tale of the Jews origins in Egypt. This is an often contentious topic amongst Jewish Historians, and it would be enlightening to insert more inofrmation on this into the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JJAshfiel ( talk • contribs) 16:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
I felt that the article has a lot of detail but doesn't give the impression that Manetho's contribution to history is as important as I've been lead to believe. I'd like to see something based on the answer to the question "what if there was no Manetho?" which I think would suit WP:MTAA better. The section Impact of Aegyptiaca has a lot of this, which is why I think it, or at least some of its content, should be moved to the beginning. AngusCA ( talk) 01:45, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is the red link Timotheus of Athens the same as Timotheus (general)? If yes we should either correct the link or add an redirect (preferred).
RScheiber ( talk) 17:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
What is meant by "Manetho should not be judged on the factuality of his account, but on the approach he took to recording history, and in this, he was as successful as Herodotus and Hesiod."? For one thing, Hesiod was not a historian (Unless you're reallllly stretching the definition of historian). For another thing, why is wikipedia telling me what I should and shouldn't do? And why are we judging Manetho? And if we are going to judge Manetho, why shouldn't it be on the basis of his factual superiority to Herodotus - something which the article puts a lot of emphasis on? We can't really talk about his style - we only have epitomous copies. What is the point of this sentence? Furius ( talk) 09:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
There is a paragraph with no citations, which IMHO makes claims that we are in no position to know or prove 2000 years later.
It would be useful to have a seperate section detailing how reliable Manetho's history of Egypt is. He was writing about people and events that happened hundreds of years before, if not more, so it seems logical that you would have to take his accounts with rather a large pinch of salt (especially if he is relying on texts by other historians such as Herodotus, whose accounts are of debated accuracy). Some discussion of whether his history is considered accurte and reliable would be quite useful, or at least mentioned which parts are considered not to be accurate by current experts. 194.66.198.40 ( talk) 09:48, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
- 84.161.40.68 ( talk) 06:00, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Manetho. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:12, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Moneta is the word in both Latin and Italian that translates to money. It was used as an attribute for the goddess Juno-Moneta. I believe it is worth searching for a link with Manetho. RCNesland ( talk) 20:22, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
The Leper Story is mentioned in the article three times but there is no summary of the story. This could be expanded. -- Chris Guest 02:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
There is currently a large pointless detour from the subject embeded the "Content and Structure, Book 1" section, which goes into more detail on the Book of Sothis than there is on the Book of Sothis page. The Book of Sothis is not a book written by Manetho, but rather based a pseudo-Manetho. To a casual reader it looks like this section is dealing with Aegyptiaca.
I suggest moving the information to the Book of Sothis page, and leaving only a minor mention of the Book of Sothis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.228.242 ( talk) 02:48, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
The following is currently found under the section "Similarities with Berossos" near the end.
"Now the edition of the Aegyptiaca that Eusebius used stated that the period of the gods, demigods, and spirits of the dead was 24,925 years. It is possible that a different edition gave a different duration for this period, one that agreed with the number of saroi Berossos assigned to the period before Aloros. If this is correct, Syncellus would have understood that the first mortal king in Manetho's list, Menes, began his reign in the same year as Aloros, the first mortal king in Berossos' list. Hence Syncellus' charge that "Manetho" copied Berossos for the year date in which mortals began to be kings in Babylonia and Egypt, respectively."
An infinite number of things are possible, however as both Eusebius and Syncellus were concerned with disproving Manetho's and Berossos' reliability as historians, it is more likely they weren't entire motivate to be accurate in their maligning these writers. Unless someone can provide a source for this conjecture, it should be removed. 174.3.228.242 ( talk) 08:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
I've just made a drastic edit, restoring the entire section on the Aegyptiaca to the state it was in on 13 August 2016, so I should explain why. Today I looked at this article in detail for the first time in years, and I saw that it's pushing a thesis that the Aegyptiaca was forged in Roman times. This claim was cited once, to an 1861 book about Egyptian chronology by "W. Palmer"; Who Was Who in Egyptology shows that the author was William Palmer and the full title is Egyptian Chronicles with a Harmony of Sacred and Egyptian Chronology. I'm not conversant with the current scholarship about Manetho, but I've never seen it suggested that the Aegyptiaca was a forgery, and a 19th-century book trying to reconcile biblical chronology with Egyptian history is, in my opinion, utterly untrustworthy (as I once said here). Besides, most of the text didn't even rely on Palmer or any other inline citation. It looked to me like an essay by somebody with a novel thesis. I checked the article history, and this text is the product of a major rewrite in October 2016 by User:Judahtzdk, who hasn't edited since 2017 and whose only talk page edits were at Talk:Amraphel defending the highly questionable works of David Rohl.
The hypothesis that the Aegyptiaca was a forgery may have enough academic standing to be included here, but I don't know that it does, and I know it's not established well enough to be asserted as fact, as Judahtzdk wanted to do. The simplest way to clean up the mess was to revert to the old version of the article, so that's what I did. (Most of that old version isn't great either, dating as it does to the days before citations were de rigueur, but at least I know it's not pushing a fringe hypothesis.) A. Parrot ( talk) 21:38, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
I poked through the article, and I don't see much of anything to reconcile bits of other informations I've read about Aegyptiaca in other articles claiming it was a lost book. If it's lost, then how is it that a modern translation of it exists? Yes, I do understand that the original was lost and the modern translation was based on an older translation of Aegyptiaca which still exist even if the original does not... but, there's nothing about that in the article. What was that original translation, and/or what'th generation copy was the copy that the English version was based on? I'm legitimate curious if that information is out there... — 135.26.148.155 ( talk) 08:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Per the transmission section of the article, Manetho's original is long lost. What we have is an epitome (summary) of the work by Sextus Julius Africanus and Eusebius of Caesarea, a Latin translation of Eusebius' work by Jerome, an anonymous Armenian translation of Eusebius' work, a comparison of Africanus and Eusebius' versions by George Syncellus, some fragments preserved by John Malalas, and a poor translation of a Greek chronicle in the Excerpta Latina Barbari (which was quoting Manetho). 09:47, 8 April 2021 (UTC) Dimadick ( talk)
Some ancient words even when they stand alone could still convey clear messages. For example, euaregit/aaregit means “old.” As an adjective, it comes before a noun as in old book, but it can also stand alone when referring to a person with the corresponding verb to be. Hence, euregit’u, that means “he is old, or euregit’ya that means, she is old. It can also emphasize by saying: “euregityusu” or, aregitusu that is: aregit iyu su”, meaning, “he is/it is/ old.” “Seb/sp” means, person and “sebbenyu” means, “ HER relative.” For example if a question was to be posed as: “mantu or Man U tu/Man U tius” meaning, “and who is that one.?” The answer would be “sebennyu” or “sebenutus.” As in “ he is HER relative” or “but he/that one/ is HER relative.” The word aiaaregkhenen means, “ YOU have not aged” (f/respectfully addressed because of her age or status in society = f/s/R,). Such a word could be in response to her asking some visitor whom she had not seen for a long time and stating, “aarignna” that is, “I have aged/ I am getting old” and the response would be, “No YOU have not aged” or as a comment of his/her observation kindly stated especially when one sees her after a long time. In Ancient Egyptian Language, some of their words seem to have been a part of their conversation. Alphalang Alphalang ( talk) 06:02, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be the Argead dynasty ( Alexander the Great and his son), while the Ptolemies should be the 33rd dynasty of Egypt? Lamassus ( talk) 22:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Manetho received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Manetho's work is usually spelled "Aegyptiaca" in English. The references need fixing. Rd232 12:48, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Also, I'm afraid I don't see the point of the Transmission drawing. It takes up a lot of space to describe something that really isn't that complicated. Rd232 12:54, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Reading through, the leader text doesn't seem to flow quite right to me, plus bits of it could be arguably POV. I've changed the leader text, but preserved the old version below and would appreciate thoughts and comments; does my new version change the meaning too much?
Manetho (circa 3rd century BC), alternatively known as Manethon of Sebennytos, was an Egyptian historian and priest from Sebennytos who lived during the Ptolemaic era. He recorded Aegyptiaca ("History of Egypt"), and had an astrological work, The Book of Sothis, attributed to him pseudonymously. His work is of great interest to Egyptologists and a prime piece of evidence for the chronology of the reigns of Pharaohs.
Manetho, also known as Manethon of Sebennytos, was an Egyptian historian and priest from Sebennytos who lived during the Ptolematic era, circa 3rd century BC. Manetho is credited with recording Aegyptica (History of Egypt) and for The Book of Sothis, an astrological work.
His work is considered to be of great interest to Egyptologists, and is often used as evidence for the chronology of the reigns of Pharoahs.
There is no question that Manetho wrote Aegyptiaca and did not write The Book of Sothis; that's not POV. I accept the rephrasing of the last sentence to "often used as evidence for." -- Peter Kirby 17:09, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand how the current version is POV. All students of Egyptian history accept that Manetho is a primary source, & that he published this information in a book called Aegyptica. (Some scholars quibble over just how many books Manetho wrote & what they were named, though.) I can't think of any other ancient writer who is creditted with writing either this specific book -- or any other by this name. And "Manethon" is nothing more than a hyper-literal variant of "Manetho". -- llywrch 21:04, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I removed {{Template:Hiero|Manetho ("Gift of Thoth")|<hiero>F40:X1-D36-G26-t:Z4</hiero>|align=right|era=pt}} since it has no basis in reality. Klompje7 15:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi, the article leaves me unclear whether he was Egyptian or Hellenistic Greek. Do we know? Thanks...
He was Egyptian, however he was Hellenized, he could speak and write in Greek. JJAshfiel 22:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
What Manetho is best known for whithin the scope of Jewish history his is tale of the Jews origins in Egypt. This is an often contentious topic amongst Jewish Historians, and it would be enlightening to insert more inofrmation on this into the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JJAshfiel ( talk • contribs) 16:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
I felt that the article has a lot of detail but doesn't give the impression that Manetho's contribution to history is as important as I've been lead to believe. I'd like to see something based on the answer to the question "what if there was no Manetho?" which I think would suit WP:MTAA better. The section Impact of Aegyptiaca has a lot of this, which is why I think it, or at least some of its content, should be moved to the beginning. AngusCA ( talk) 01:45, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Is the red link Timotheus of Athens the same as Timotheus (general)? If yes we should either correct the link or add an redirect (preferred).
RScheiber ( talk) 17:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
What is meant by "Manetho should not be judged on the factuality of his account, but on the approach he took to recording history, and in this, he was as successful as Herodotus and Hesiod."? For one thing, Hesiod was not a historian (Unless you're reallllly stretching the definition of historian). For another thing, why is wikipedia telling me what I should and shouldn't do? And why are we judging Manetho? And if we are going to judge Manetho, why shouldn't it be on the basis of his factual superiority to Herodotus - something which the article puts a lot of emphasis on? We can't really talk about his style - we only have epitomous copies. What is the point of this sentence? Furius ( talk) 09:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
There is a paragraph with no citations, which IMHO makes claims that we are in no position to know or prove 2000 years later.
It would be useful to have a seperate section detailing how reliable Manetho's history of Egypt is. He was writing about people and events that happened hundreds of years before, if not more, so it seems logical that you would have to take his accounts with rather a large pinch of salt (especially if he is relying on texts by other historians such as Herodotus, whose accounts are of debated accuracy). Some discussion of whether his history is considered accurte and reliable would be quite useful, or at least mentioned which parts are considered not to be accurate by current experts. 194.66.198.40 ( talk) 09:48, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
- 84.161.40.68 ( talk) 06:00, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Manetho. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:12, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Moneta is the word in both Latin and Italian that translates to money. It was used as an attribute for the goddess Juno-Moneta. I believe it is worth searching for a link with Manetho. RCNesland ( talk) 20:22, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
The Leper Story is mentioned in the article three times but there is no summary of the story. This could be expanded. -- Chris Guest 02:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
There is currently a large pointless detour from the subject embeded the "Content and Structure, Book 1" section, which goes into more detail on the Book of Sothis than there is on the Book of Sothis page. The Book of Sothis is not a book written by Manetho, but rather based a pseudo-Manetho. To a casual reader it looks like this section is dealing with Aegyptiaca.
I suggest moving the information to the Book of Sothis page, and leaving only a minor mention of the Book of Sothis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.228.242 ( talk) 02:48, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
The following is currently found under the section "Similarities with Berossos" near the end.
"Now the edition of the Aegyptiaca that Eusebius used stated that the period of the gods, demigods, and spirits of the dead was 24,925 years. It is possible that a different edition gave a different duration for this period, one that agreed with the number of saroi Berossos assigned to the period before Aloros. If this is correct, Syncellus would have understood that the first mortal king in Manetho's list, Menes, began his reign in the same year as Aloros, the first mortal king in Berossos' list. Hence Syncellus' charge that "Manetho" copied Berossos for the year date in which mortals began to be kings in Babylonia and Egypt, respectively."
An infinite number of things are possible, however as both Eusebius and Syncellus were concerned with disproving Manetho's and Berossos' reliability as historians, it is more likely they weren't entire motivate to be accurate in their maligning these writers. Unless someone can provide a source for this conjecture, it should be removed. 174.3.228.242 ( talk) 08:10, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
I've just made a drastic edit, restoring the entire section on the Aegyptiaca to the state it was in on 13 August 2016, so I should explain why. Today I looked at this article in detail for the first time in years, and I saw that it's pushing a thesis that the Aegyptiaca was forged in Roman times. This claim was cited once, to an 1861 book about Egyptian chronology by "W. Palmer"; Who Was Who in Egyptology shows that the author was William Palmer and the full title is Egyptian Chronicles with a Harmony of Sacred and Egyptian Chronology. I'm not conversant with the current scholarship about Manetho, but I've never seen it suggested that the Aegyptiaca was a forgery, and a 19th-century book trying to reconcile biblical chronology with Egyptian history is, in my opinion, utterly untrustworthy (as I once said here). Besides, most of the text didn't even rely on Palmer or any other inline citation. It looked to me like an essay by somebody with a novel thesis. I checked the article history, and this text is the product of a major rewrite in October 2016 by User:Judahtzdk, who hasn't edited since 2017 and whose only talk page edits were at Talk:Amraphel defending the highly questionable works of David Rohl.
The hypothesis that the Aegyptiaca was a forgery may have enough academic standing to be included here, but I don't know that it does, and I know it's not established well enough to be asserted as fact, as Judahtzdk wanted to do. The simplest way to clean up the mess was to revert to the old version of the article, so that's what I did. (Most of that old version isn't great either, dating as it does to the days before citations were de rigueur, but at least I know it's not pushing a fringe hypothesis.) A. Parrot ( talk) 21:38, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
I poked through the article, and I don't see much of anything to reconcile bits of other informations I've read about Aegyptiaca in other articles claiming it was a lost book. If it's lost, then how is it that a modern translation of it exists? Yes, I do understand that the original was lost and the modern translation was based on an older translation of Aegyptiaca which still exist even if the original does not... but, there's nothing about that in the article. What was that original translation, and/or what'th generation copy was the copy that the English version was based on? I'm legitimate curious if that information is out there... — 135.26.148.155 ( talk) 08:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Per the transmission section of the article, Manetho's original is long lost. What we have is an epitome (summary) of the work by Sextus Julius Africanus and Eusebius of Caesarea, a Latin translation of Eusebius' work by Jerome, an anonymous Armenian translation of Eusebius' work, a comparison of Africanus and Eusebius' versions by George Syncellus, some fragments preserved by John Malalas, and a poor translation of a Greek chronicle in the Excerpta Latina Barbari (which was quoting Manetho). 09:47, 8 April 2021 (UTC) Dimadick ( talk)
Some ancient words even when they stand alone could still convey clear messages. For example, euaregit/aaregit means “old.” As an adjective, it comes before a noun as in old book, but it can also stand alone when referring to a person with the corresponding verb to be. Hence, euregit’u, that means “he is old, or euregit’ya that means, she is old. It can also emphasize by saying: “euregityusu” or, aregitusu that is: aregit iyu su”, meaning, “he is/it is/ old.” “Seb/sp” means, person and “sebbenyu” means, “ HER relative.” For example if a question was to be posed as: “mantu or Man U tu/Man U tius” meaning, “and who is that one.?” The answer would be “sebennyu” or “sebenutus.” As in “ he is HER relative” or “but he/that one/ is HER relative.” The word aiaaregkhenen means, “ YOU have not aged” (f/respectfully addressed because of her age or status in society = f/s/R,). Such a word could be in response to her asking some visitor whom she had not seen for a long time and stating, “aarignna” that is, “I have aged/ I am getting old” and the response would be, “No YOU have not aged” or as a comment of his/her observation kindly stated especially when one sees her after a long time. In Ancient Egyptian Language, some of their words seem to have been a part of their conversation. Alphalang Alphalang ( talk) 06:02, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be the Argead dynasty ( Alexander the Great and his son), while the Ptolemies should be the 33rd dynasty of Egypt? Lamassus ( talk) 22:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)