This article was nominated for deletion on 27 February 2008. The result of the discussion was no consensus to delete; default to KEEP.

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I've started a serious overhaul of this page. As part of this, I'll be posting comments on what I do to this discussion page, in case people feel like adding to them or fixing them up. Importantly, I am not going to initially focus on sourcing information, so please add sources where appropriate, if I have not. I'm most concerned with getting the information up first. Drhamad ( talk) 20:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Intro added. If somebody has a better description for the subculture or type of people that MOC attracts, please mention it to me. I wouldn't mind also adding a 2nd intro paragraph actually describing the "voice" of MOC (ie the style you see on it). Drhamad ( talk) 20:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

I haven't touched History so far, except: Drhamad ( talk) 20:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Old School MOC

Added this section. Drhamad ( talk) 20:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

I've linked a lot of info in this section to the Wayback Machine, because the newest version of Makeoutclub doesn't have working About pages yet, and the information is better sourced there than anywhere else. Drhamad ( talk) 21:29, 25 January 2008 (UTC) reply

The boards are so integral to MOC that I added a section about them here. Obviously it needs a lot of work. Drhamad ( talk) 20:41, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Added. Drhamad ( talk) 21:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Yeah yeah what I put in about Culture is awful. But hey, I'm just trying to set up a framework here. Drhamad ( talk) 20:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Vocabulary

Added, with a few examples so far. Drhamad ( talk) 21:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Hello - I was wondering how to start dialog on why the makeoutclub is getting deleted

-exdeligate

Thanks for your note. Please don't delete tags from pages you've created yourself; it's considered vandalism. Also, please sign your messages with four tildes.

You may want to familiarize yourself with the information at WP:Notable, which will give you an idea of the criteria that an administrator will use when deciding whether or not to delete the page. In general, though, what would be required is verifiable impartial third-party references, such as quotations from a magazine article, asserting the notability of the subject. Self-promotional material, such as quotations issued by the subject about itself, are not considered impartial third-party references. If I can help you further, please let me know by leaving a notice on my talk page, signed with four tildes. Accounting4Taste 23:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC) reply

Thanks for working within Wikipedia's boundaries, your cooperation is appreciated. I'm satisfied that you've demonstrated notability and have removed my own db tag. One point -- you don't sign articles themselves, just messages about articles on talk pages. I've removed your signature on the Makeoutclub page, it's not appropriate. I will add a welcome message below that may offer you some pointers on how to proceed and, if you have any questions, get in touch on my talk page.

I have now removed the notability tag. If somebody feels it needs to be re-added, even with the additional cites I've put in, talk to me. Drhamad ( talk) 21:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Welcome!

Hello, Makeoutclub, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Accounting4Taste 23:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC) reply

In order to keep the page in place, I've removed what I think are the parts to which people would most readily raise an objection; I hope that just the facts about what the site is and what it does remain. If people want more, they can find it on their own. If there's an admin reading this -- check out the video clip marked [1] in the lede, which I believe demonstrates substantial notability. If you still feel this is spam, by all means cut away at what you are offended by, but I think the article should stay, in abbreviated form. Thanks to everyone who helped to make this article better. Accounting4Taste 04:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC) reply

The parts removed by A4T are pretty much what I just advised the author to remove to make it acceptable. No need for a speedy. -- Finngall ^talk 04:09, 1 September 2007 (UTC) reply

I have now removed the notability tag. If somebody feels it needs to be re-added, even with the additional cites I've put in, talk to me. Drhamad ( talk) 21:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Have the policies changed since September? This was deemed fit then, as you can see. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.34.194 ( talk) 18:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC) reply

According to Alexa.com, Makeoutclub is 208,991th for hits worldwide, and 15,375th in the United States. While it is not on the first 10 pages of results in Google when searching for "Indie music news" (both with and without quotes), a quick comparison shows that it receives more traffic than two first-page sites, and in fact considerably more traffic than the top site (Indienewslive.com, which has a traffic ranking of 6,145,280 - see here and here). While Alexa warns of using rankings below 100,000 due to the statistical tests it employs (at the bottom of this page), I think the numbers hold a strong case nonetheless. Note: a Google search for Makeoutclub is difficult to assess, as a large majority of returned pages are lyrics pages for the song of the same name. An Alexa search for sites linking in yielded a number of pages, including an article from Salon.com, which uses makeoutclub as an example of a social networking site (see here - note that the term 'social networking site' is not used; the article is from November 2001, which is before the genesis of the term). -- Sasuke Sarutobi ( talk) 09:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC) reply

A quick look at makeoutclub's member search suggests that its membership is just below 10,000 - this is about 3,500 lower than the lowest listed page on List of social networking websites ( Advogato - a social-networking site for developers of open-source software). This may be a moot point - the article for that site also has its notability questioned. I'm going to later be calculating some membership co-efficients for various social networking sites (membership divided by 1 over Alexa rank) to see if it shows popularity of the site within its members. A note before I leave - according to the entry for ' Nothing Feels Good: Punk Rock, Teenagers, and Emo' makeoutclub is mentioned in there, providing a third-party source. The book itself is rated as 108,235 and 157,272 on the Amazon.com bestsellers list (the book has two separate entries, see here and here). According to the latter-linked page, it is also the 22nd most popular book in Amazon.com's punk books category.

-- Sasuke Sarutobi ( talk) 10:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC) reply

Makeoutclub boasts just under 100k registered members since 2000. Not sure where you got the 10k figure from? If you go to the Boys or Girls pages, knowing there are 10 users listed per page, look at the total number of pages for users. 4952 for girls, 4523 for boys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.7 ( talk) 05:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC) reply

I've moved this list of places where Makeoutclub is mentioned from the AfD page to here. The list is courtesy of Exdeligate ( talk). -- Sasuke Sarutobi ( talk) 11:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC) reply

The following Books all discuss MOC:

Everybody Hurts: An Essential Guide to Emo Culture by Trevor Kelley and Leslie Simon (Paperback - April 24, 2007) Excerpt - page 74: "... this began to change with Makeoutclub.com, the first online community to..." http://www.amazon.com/Everybody-Hurts-Essential-Guide-Culture/dp/0061195391/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204730442&sr=8-1 http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061195396/Everybody_Hurts/index.aspx

Social Networks Around The World: How is Web 2.0 Changing Your Life? by An De Jonghe (Paperback - Feb 15, 2008) Excerpt - page 72: "... com http://makeoutclub.com/ Created from a small apartment ..." http://www.amazon.com/Social-Networks-Around-World-Changing/dp/1419683659/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204730442&sr=8-2

Straight Edge: Clean-Living Youth, Hardcore Punk, And Social Change by Ross Haenfler (Paperback - Jun 25, 2006) Excerpt - page 180: "... and services such as Friendster, Makeoutclub.com, and Myspace foster online communities ..." http://www.amazon.com/Straight-Edge-Clean-Living-Hardcore-Social/dp/0813538521/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204730442&sr=8-3

Nothing Feels Good: Punk Rock, Teenagers, and Emo by Andy Greenwald (Paperback - Nov 15, 2003) Excerpt - page 58: "... On messageboards, on Makeoutclub, on livejournals and blogs, the ..." - Many citations and interviews http://www.amazon.com/Nothing-Feels-Good-Punk-Teenagers/dp/0312308639/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204730442&sr=8-4

How to Do Everything with Windows XP Home Networking (How to Do Everything) by Dave Field and Andrew Brandt (Paperback - Oct 27, 2004) Excerpt - page 309: "... been finding one another on MakeOutClub.com since 1999, which, despite the ..." http://www.amazon.com/How-Everything-Windows-Home-Networking/dp/0072258098/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204730442&sr=8-5

Hipster Handbook 1st Anchor Books Ed edition (February 4, 2003) http://www.amazon.com/Hipster-Handbook-Robert-Lanham/dp/1400032016/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204740679&sr=1-1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exdeligate ( talk • contribs) 18:14, 5 March 2008 (UTC) reply

Television Citations:

TechLive (TechTV now G4) Online Meet Market 2003 http://www.g4tv.com/techtvvault/features/45589/Online_Meet_Market.html?detectflash=false&

KNBC4 Los Angeles - "The Internet Exposed" 2007 http://www.knbc.com/video/9861680/index.html

Magazine Citations:

LAS July 16, 2003 Indie Rock Porn http://www.lostatsea.net/feature.phtml?fid=785819758468401da7d6ef

USC Trojan March 6, 2001 A Makeoutclub worth visiting http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V142/N37/03-amakeout.37d.html

Online Tripod Article Mocking MOC Date not found http://superfashionchic.tripod.com/id19.html

Student Life - Newspaper of Washington University in St. Louis since 1878 The New God of Romance 4/7/04 http://media.www.studlife.com/media/storage/paper337/news/2004/04/07/Cadenza/The-New.God.Of.Romance-653228.shtml

Time Magazine Sunday May 18, 2002 Emotional Rescue http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101020527-238603-2,00.html

Fabricoffolly (online) The Long Tail of Social Networking March 20, 2007 http://www.fabricoffolly.com/2007/03/long-tail-of-social-networking.html

Iowa State Daily 12/10/01 You better not pout, you better not cry http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com/media/storage/paper818/news/2001/12/10/Pulse/You-Better.Not.Pout.You.Better.Not.Cry-1066384.shtml

Jade Tree Records MOC One Year Aniversary Aug 10, 2001 http://www.jadetree.com/news/article/0/130

The Stranger Seattles "Only" Newspaper Jan 30-Feb 5 2003 Issue Making Punk Porn http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=13227

Cleve Scene News March 24, 2004 The Underwear Underground http://promotions.clevescene.com/2004-03-24/news/the-underwear-underground/full

Spin Magazine - "Trend of the Year" - 12/24/2003 http://www.spinmagazine.com/articles/trend-year-mainstreamo

A&R man Luke Wood (who signed Brand New, Jimmy Eat World, and Saves the Day) says "We're beyond the kids who are lucky enough to find Hot Topic on the fourth floor of the mall or stumble onto Makeoutclub.com."

Village Voice - "Fuck Emo Let's Fight" - 07/22/2003 http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0330,phillips,45671,22.html

"Makeoutclub.com vs Buddyhead.com"

Cleveland Scene - "The Underwear Underground" - 03/24/2004 http://movies.clevescene.com/2004-03-24/news/the-underwear-underground/

"She modeled it after MakeOutClub.com, a profile site that was becoming increasingly popular with indie-rock scenesters. "Even if there are no kids on your block that you relate to, online at MakeOutClub there are 75,000 kids that you might find something in common with," explains Gibby, the site's too-cool-for-a-last-name founder." "Last July, Blender Magazine listed OnlyUndies and MakeOutClub at number 53 on its list of 100 cool things."

I've relisted the AfD after the previous outcome was "no consensus." Although my previous vote was to delete as not notable and promotional, the relisting is on procedural grounds only to generate a clear consensus. - Realkyhick ( Talk to me) 23:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC) reply

Noticed the page was tagged for "promotional copy", so spent some time removing copy that wasn't sourced or quoted this morning. There are a lot of references and articles about Makeoutclub online and in print, so it would be great to get some of those actual quotes in here. Regarding the versioning list of releases - is that needed? What else could we do it improve the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:890F:2F00:D9E1:B7DE:E216:F437 ( talk) 17:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC) reply

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Cheers.— ^{cyberbot II} _{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:22, 21 January 2016 (UTC) reply

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Makeoutclub. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{ cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{ nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080310130110/http://promotions.clevescene.com:80/2004-03-24/news/the-underwear-underground/full to http://promotions.clevescene.com/2004-03-24/news/the-underwear-underground/full
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071121170444/http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com:80/media/storage/paper818/news/2001/12/10/Pulse/You-Better.Not.Pout.You.Better.Not.Cry-1066384.shtml to http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com/media/storage/paper818/news/2001/12/10/Pulse/You-Better.Not.Pout.You.Better.Not.Cry-1066384.shtml

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Cheers.— ^{cyberbot II} _{Talk to my owner:Online} 06:45, 23 February 2016 (UTC) reply

Hi, I'm tasked with revising the MOC page to be more straight forward and fact based. I've started to simply—specifically removing any sweeping claims—and would love any feedback to improve the page. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.103.40.91 ( talk) 19:34, 8 February 2017 (UTC) reply