This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
How about his current stuff on ECW? Feuding with Shelton, chasing Rosa. More importantly, Ryder is so notable that we, the fans, are actually able to see inside his head and view his thoughts.
I feel this makes him notable, in that he is literally breaking the 4th wall and transcending the television screen. He is so notable that he enters our homes each week and allows us to peer into his mind, however briefly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.28.14 ( talk) 03:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
WOO WOO WOO.
That alone proves why Zack needs his own page. He has a catchphrase. He's already more notable than any wrestler in any independent promotion by virtue of how long he's been a singles wrestler on TV.
Ryder has almost won the ECW title, Hawkins is in limbo. They are completely separate individuals and keeping them linked like this is akin to saying Edge and Christian should be a single page because they spent all that time in the Brood and as surfer dudes.
15-20 mostly unstorylined matches on a show frequently watched by less people than TNA on a global scale doesn't compare with 8 years of singles success and major titles, stop being facetious.
Tony2Times (
talk)
23:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Unstorylined? So Ryder trying to become number one contender multiple times isn't a storyline? Sorry it can't be a gold star storyline like TNA's "Abyss is retarded" or "Kevin Nash likes money".
Face it, if we interviewed 100 people on the street, far more would be able to name Ryder than any single TNA wrestler other than maybe Kurt Angle, and that's only because Angle was in the Olympics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.16.113.252 ( talk) 23:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Mostly unstorylined. Aside from wanting a title, he's had no other storyline aside from a singing contest with Benjamin. He has a page, it's here, deal with it. When his career is different enough that this page is no longer mainly about the tag team then he'll get a page. As is his career has been 5 years in a tag team, 15-20 matches not. Tony2Times ( talk) 00:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
The above section is extremely long and gets off subject alot. Starting anew is better.
Okay, lets get to it. I'm going to hopefully show why Zack Ryder should not have an individual page. First, the argument that it seems no one on the opposite side can understand. This article is about the history of both wrestlers. Why is that? Because they have spent the majority of their careers together. To break the article in half to make two new articles would be WP:Content forking. The subject material can easily fit into another article. Understand, it is not that we don't like Ryder, Hawkins, etc; it is instead that we can't reasonably give him his own page because of guidelines. Ryder is notable, and he has a page right here. That is far as he is going to get at the moment. He could win the ECW Championship, but still then will not get his own page. Why you ask? Because it is still content forking. The current ECW section on Ryder is actually more in depth than it should.
Now, this site is called "Wikipedia" not the "WWEpedia". Other promotions mean just as much as WWE is a notability sense. Reliable sources make subjects notable. No third party RELIABLE sources, then a subject is not notable. In this case, we have enough sources to justify notability, but due to the content forking guideline, we can't have two bio articles. Now, you are welcome to do as much research as you want to find enough notable info that would justify a separation, like singles career outside of the tag team in other promotions than WWE. Hell, if Hawkins was release tomorrow and debuted in ROH, he would be more notable than Ryder would. Why? Because he would have wrestled in more than one promotion in a singles career. Hopefully everyone understands now. Content forking prevents us from separating the article.-- Will C 00:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
If Tyler Reks is a notable person, why can't Zack Ryder? Zack was in DSW and OVW with Hawkins yes, buts thats still one more "promotion" even if its still under and owned by WWE. Also Zack WAS in a feud with Shelton as they did team together, the singing competition and the single match. And he is becoming a prominent figure in WWE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 02:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
No, this page is not about Zack Ryder specifically, its is about the stable Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder or the Major Brothers. If it was about Zack Ryder, the page would be named Zack Ryder, you don't see Jeff and Matt Hardy's wrestling career under The Hardy Boyz do you? And stating that Zack Ryder is forgotten about is purely your point of view, so you can not argue that point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 01:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Zack is a notable person I agree with Will on that but if he is he should have his own page think about it 2 fueds Shelton Benjamin, and now with 4 different superstars ECW Champion Christian, William Regal, Vladimir Kozlov and Ezekial Jackson and has had a ECW championship match how long and how many main event matches will it take for Zack to get his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I know nothing about the Wikipedia law but Ryder really doesn't deserve his own page. If you look at anyone else's page, an entire year or more is only a few paragraphs even people like John Cena or Randy Orton. With that in mind, it's obvious Ryder hasn't done anything like they have since he split with Curt Hawkins. He's won a few squash matches, feuded with Shelton and had a couple main events on ECW. If he spent maybe a year on ECW with a run with the title and more feuds, got drafted to SmackDown! or RAW then won the IC Title or something and feuded for a bit then did some other stuff over a longer period of time, accomplishing more in a singles career then he should get a page since if you did try to make a Zack Ryder page right now it'd have exactly the same as this page except almost a week-by-week rundown of his singles career in ECW to make it seem bigger. He'll get his own page when he does more credible things as a singles wrestler and that just makes more sense than having two pages floating around with the same info minus a few sentences. 190.59.13.89 ( talk) 03:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Above post makes no sense. Just give him his own page he's been on ECW for months now.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 16:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm trying to make a consensus but you guys continue to disagree why don't you merge Jeff Hardy and Matt Hardy to Hardy Boyz or merge Edge and Randy Orton to Rated-RKO or especially merege Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes to The Legacy or merge John Morrison and The Miz to John Morrison and The Miz or Jesse and Festus to Jesse and Festus and last why don't you merge Shawn Michaels and Triple H to D-Generation X but all these people have different pages so why not split Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder and give Zack a page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 20:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Will poor poor Will you just don't understand and watch your mouth don't take your anger out on me that wasn't a dumb question. Oh and most of Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase's Careers have been tag teams especially Cody he's almost started with Holly right away.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 20:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Meh, might as well just start pages for both of them and do something...
What's the point of all you guys saying that Zack doesn't deserve a page he's notable enough for his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 22:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Zack deserves his own page just like i've always said before and all the explainations i've given.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 21:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you should propose an article in a sandbox of yours. Write up his article, bearing in mind that as this page exists to talk in detail about his tag team, it would be summarised in far less depth on his own article (cf The Hardy Boys' articles and their own pages.) Maybe then we can see if there is any credence in a Zack article at this time. Tony2Times ( talk) 21:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Since Ryder is obviously more established than Hawkins, why don't we just rename this article "Zack Ryder" and make the first part about his early career with Curt Hawkins, and then have it become about Ryder after the breakup. I just don't understand what it would hurt giving Zack Ryder his own article considering wikipedia has articles about everything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NotoriousND22 ( talk • contribs) 00:19, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Zack and Curt do not have a page!!! Their STABLE or TAG TEAM have a page but not either one of them!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 23:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The interesting thing is that people keep thinking that just because Zack has a singles career in ECW they think that Hawkins' doesn't have a singles career in FCW. Zack may be getting more screen-time but if Hawkins' were to win a singles title in FCW he'd actually be more acceptable to getting his own article than Zack Ryder. 190.59.20.64 ( talk) 02:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree with both of you, the people pushing the "content forking" I think are just fans to take wrestling a wee bit to serious and don't like Ryder because of his character. They are both notable as they both have been in 2 other promotions which means they have Independant experiance, just like Tyler Reks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.142.63 ( talk) 03:14, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Well if Zack and Curt don't get single, seperate articles, then explain to me why Tyler Reks should get one without just saying "He passes guidelines for being a notable person". Because Tyler = 2 promotions, Zack and Curt, whilst they have competed in a team for many years have SPLIT = DIFFERANT CAREERS!!! And have both wrestled in FIVE promotions AND held titles, I'm sure thats notable not just to have a STABLE PAGE, which is what this is! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.142.63 ( talk) 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I just don't get Ryder AND Hawkins have been well into their singles career Hawkins has been on a winning streak in FCW and Ryder has been in a lot of main event matches i'm just saying this because part of this is people saying that if we give Ryder a page we have to give Hawkins a page and we now can.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 01:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok Will and TOny, this is meant to be a discussion about Splitting the article being talked about, not a "I'm so big, I can talk trash with a keyboard" article. Just thought that needed clearing up. Second, Zack and Curt will most likely not get their own Single article at this moment, but in a years time It most likely will, going back to the trend of Hawkins winning streak and Ryders "main event-ish" status. Now if you want to discuss this article, please dicuss it, not behave like whiny brats or big computer pychotic nerds and try an act all cool by saying you are going over to the UK to kill people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 07:32, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry Rob, didn't write my words properly. meant to write "Who's to say in a years time...". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 18:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC) People need to keep a better eye on this page. It's had repeated vandalism. The same person keeps vandalizing Dustin Rhodes. Here's their latest IP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/190.59.21.71 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.23.156.97 ( talk) 20:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok i'll work on my subpage and then show it to you guys and then you'll see.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 00:22, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Who's to say anytime soon Will? Hawkins could suddenly go to TNA, and win the TNA World Heavyweight Title, or Ryder, a very unlikely event but who would know with WWE lol! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 02:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Would Ryder get his own if he became ECW Champion defeated Christian in a rematch a Survivor Series and then defended it in Championship Scramble at TLC and then won the Royal Rumble then defened it against William Regal and then next week Christian then Vladimir Kozlov then Ezekial Jackson, then won an elimation chamber match to defend the ECW championship at elimation chamber then defended it in a six pack challenge then next week a triple threat soon defeating every person on the ECW roster in a championship match and then at Wrestlemania won the WWE Championship for winning the Royal Rumble then defending both championships against thw whole ECW roster then kept defending it through Backlash and Extreme Rules then would he get his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 14:55, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
He would have needed the Intercontinental Championship as well and also win the Money In The Bank, King of the Ring, all the Slammys, TNA World Heavyweight Championship, have a 20 year career in RoH, win the World Heavyweight Championship and beat Curt Hawkins in a "Winner Gets Their Own Wikipedia Page" Match to have his own page. :P 190.59.9.44 ( talk) 23:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
For Hawkins or Ryder to get their own page, one of them would have to join another NOTABLE company or star in movies etc. E.g. Ryder goes to TNA, therefore Ryder becomes a notable person as he is with another mainstream brand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
WWE should actually do a "Winner Gets Their Own Wikipedia Page" Match between Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder since there's so much fighting over it, you know, capitalize on something real. 190.59.9.44 ( talk) 21:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Miikro. At the moment Zack nor Curt havn't done much to become notable enough. In my opinion if Curt was to debeut as the "Gay gimmick" thing in WWE and Him and Ryder were to still be single star-type-things then the case for seperation of this article will be greater than what it is now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 08:01, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Where did you hear about Hawkins having a "Gay Gimmick"? 190.59.2.127 ( talk) 01:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I read on a wrestling news site that Curt Hawkins is set to debut on the December 1 edition of ECW. His gimmick well be that of a Hardcore old school ECW fan, he frequently states he was trained by Mikey Whipwreck, and he chants "ECDUB" and "ECW" on his way to the ring and after wins, not unlike Tommy Dreamer. His ring name well be Edgar Compton Wright and is set to fued with Zack Ryder, who apparently wins the ECW Championship sometime soon 142.162.55.94 ( talk) 12:26, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I just checked my history and it urns out it got deleted, so I can't get to the site, but I'll try to look for it. 142.162.55.94 ( talk) 14:25, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
If that site did have all those details, WWE would have changed them/canceled them since they hate when stories get leaked especially over a month in advance... 190.59.19.249 ( talk) 01:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Just split them Ryder is notable I mean he's a main-eventer been on ECW for 7 months or a little more than 210 days he's had an ECW Championship Shot won a 10-man battle royal and is currently engaged in a huge fued.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 23:45, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Define "huge feud" because from the looks of things, they've given up on pushing Ryder on ECW since he lost his match against Shelton Benjamin on ECW and also hasn't had any real promos for a while minus a Rosa Mendes fantasy. 190.59.19.249 ( talk) 01:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Tony they are not the same.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 21:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Here is your winner and NEW ECW Champion, Zack Ryder.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 23:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I was being positive.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 17:10, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I've been editing my subpage here it is.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 17:57, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
That subpage just proves that Ryder doesn't deserve his own page since it's going to be the same as this one minus a few lines. When Ryder has more of an actual singles career then he'll get a page. Right now, this page is good enough for both of them. 190.59.254.116 ( talk) 00:10, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
No it proves he deserves his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
You said once he has a sucessful storyline it would make him noteable he's having a storyline with Rosa Mendes and Shelton Benjamin anyway even though this is making him more noteable he's always been noteable so give him a page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 16:19, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
I never said that. One storyline means nothing. He will have to do alot more to be notable enough for his own page. He has one right now, right here, so get over it.-- Will C 21:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The first thread about splitting the article was back in April. Since August, this page has had some running discussion about making a split. It's very silly to continue arguing over this. I'm not going to give my opinion, because that's not why I'm posting. I suggest all editors involved here walk away and find an article to productively edit. iMatthew talk at 21:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Yah it does need to end but nobody agrees with what's right splitting the page. I mean making a page for Zack Ryder I mean he's very noteable I mean almost every WWE fan I know (and that's a lot) know him.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 04:43, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I found something according to the content forking article it says that they have to be on the same subject so the only thing that keeps me from splitting the article is what you have about Ryder on ECW if you took out the championship match thing and stuff it woulnd't be content forking.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 04:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
What do you have to do to be noteable you haven't specified that what do you have to do I bet he's way more noteable (without his tag team career) then anybody in ECW's new superstar initiative and everybody from that has their own page explain that.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
By comparison Zack Ryder has spent 6 months as a singles wrestler in one company wrestling mostly different people each week with only 20 televised matches of which 7 have been against the same competitor more than once. Contrast that with 4 years of tag team wrestling in four different promotions, winning 3 seperate titles and being a tag team inside La Familia which dominated SmackDown's programming for 7 months during their involvement of it. Tony2Times ( talk) 03:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Please stop I don't like these kinds of fights. Back to the subject. I'm talking about people like Tyler Reks what have they done?-- 74.235.5.234 ( talk) 00:49, 17 November 2009 (UTC) Sorry i'm Curtis.^ Forgot to log in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.235.5.234 ( talk) 00:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Hehehe Curtis thats been my argument for ages as I was one of the first to bring him up! Lol. Personally I think there needs to be a vote as its been proved splitting won't be "COntent forking" but then people still say Ryder still isn't notable was is a fair argument as in some cases he can, and some he isn't. Someone just needs to start a new sub and have a vote tally there. And we can see if anyone edits the votes incase anyone is saying or thinking that people can do that because your IP adress will show up on the changes page of this discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs)
Zack Ryder -- Curtis23 ( talk) 03:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey i'm new but I think Zack should get his own account.--You don't know me 03:16, 21 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtis23 ( talk • contribs)
That Zack Ryder page is the exact same except it has an almost perfect recollection of the very small Ryder/Shelton/Rosa feud which Wikipedia doesn't need, as all the details you gave for it on the page are week by week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRealEeL ( talk • contribs) 21:35, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that Team 3D does. Granted Team 3D is one of the biggest names in tag team wrestling of all time, but what have they done in their careers without each other? Aside from the 2-line "Singles Career" parts of their articles, and their short split due to the WWE Draft (both of which could be summarized in single paragraph if the articles were merged), they have never been apart. Explain why (aside from their fame as a tag team) they deserve separate articles any more then Ryder & Hawkins. KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 08:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
http://twitter.com/thecurthawkins - according to Hawkin's twitter, he is one of the FCW tag team champions. Last I checked, the dudebusters were the tag team champions. Care to shed some light? KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 08:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, Hawkins is even listed on Wikipedia's FCW Tag Team Championship page as having been a champion... it should be added but there's no source that's truly reliable... If Hawkins did win that title, he's actually more notable than Ryder lol. 190.59.0.135 ( talk) 17:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I got a link to a reliable source that shows that Hawkins wins a title without Ryder in FCW, I'll post it here since it has yet to be shown on TV: http://pwinsider.com/article/43134/florida-championship-wrestling-tv-taping-results-irwin-r-shyster-appears-kaval-low-ki-back-in-action-and-more.html?p=1
I think that we should expand Hawkins article more, talking about his time in The Dudebusters and his championship reign in FCW. 190.59.0.135 ( talk) 16:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Well now that were on the topic of Hawkins yes he is FCW Tag Team Champion so lets give him a page.-- 74.235.5.212 ( talk) 02:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I never said it did. What I am asking is who the hell is the tag team champions lol? KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 08:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Your letting Hawkins have a page and not Ryder?-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Curtis, if Hawkins would to get a page, then so would Ryder.-- Will C 03:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I never said give Hawkins his own page, just expand his article in the split section of this article. Hawkins is admittedly more notable than Zack Ryder because he's one a championship without Ryder around and with another team plus he's in a feud in FCW while he's with The Dudebusters. Ryder's done nothing compared to Hawkins. Ryder's had brief feuds with random people that amounted to nothing while Hawkins entered tons of feuds in FCW, made a new team The Dudebusters and won a title. Let's expand Hawkins' article who actually has done more than Ryder, and while we're at it, clear out the split section with all this stuff people put there about Ryder just to make it look longer than it should be and replace it with Hawkins information. 190.59.10.252 ( talk) 09:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Not to start an argument but if Hawkins is so much more notable why isn't he on the main roster? KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 02:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
It is all about information and reliable sources to back up that information. Just appearing on the main roster for two weeks then disappearing doesn't make that guy more notable over, lets say, a guy who has worked in countless indy promotions and been covered in-depthly by third party reliable sources. It isn't about who deserves one.-- Will C 07:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Does anybody know if Curt is the real FCW Tag Champion or if it is still the Rutundos?-- Curtis23 ( talk) 16:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I have to ask, why does the Broski reference keep getting added to the section about Zack Ryder's image change? There is no proof at all that Zack Ryder's look and/or gimmick is based on the Broski internet video. Nobody has actually shown any proof of anyone certifying this claim.
Until it is certified if his look and/or gimmick are based on the Broski internet video, it's just pure speculation and coincidence and therefor I believe it should not be added to the article. - User: Cool King 16:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Now that they are on ECW what about Hawkins and his FCW Tag Team Championship reign.-- Curtis23 (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.24.27.225 ( talk) 03:48, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I took the liberty to update Hawkins section of the "split" area... all those crazy Zack Ryder fans should notice that Hawkins' section actually has more details about his career in FCW rather than hisnew look and catchphrases and whatever else you try to add to make his[Zack Ryder] article look bigger. Anyway, I updated Hawkins' career while in FCW hope you guys enjoy, anything else would be great. 190.59.31.234 ( talk) 06:05, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
What about the rumors that Hawkins will debut in ECW alongside Bazooka Kaboom (ROH Superstar Bryan Danielson)?
Would that be grounds for a split, since it both men would would be on WWE Television as separate characters.
I personally feel that the Dudebusters is enough of a differentiation, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.239.211 ( talk) 01:09, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
How about his current stuff on ECW? Feuding with Shelton, chasing Rosa. More importantly, Ryder is so notable that we, the fans, are actually able to see inside his head and view his thoughts.
I feel this makes him notable, in that he is literally breaking the 4th wall and transcending the television screen. He is so notable that he enters our homes each week and allows us to peer into his mind, however briefly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.28.14 ( talk) 03:28, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
WOO WOO WOO.
That alone proves why Zack needs his own page. He has a catchphrase. He's already more notable than any wrestler in any independent promotion by virtue of how long he's been a singles wrestler on TV.
Ryder has almost won the ECW title, Hawkins is in limbo. They are completely separate individuals and keeping them linked like this is akin to saying Edge and Christian should be a single page because they spent all that time in the Brood and as surfer dudes.
15-20 mostly unstorylined matches on a show frequently watched by less people than TNA on a global scale doesn't compare with 8 years of singles success and major titles, stop being facetious.
Tony2Times (
talk)
23:30, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Unstorylined? So Ryder trying to become number one contender multiple times isn't a storyline? Sorry it can't be a gold star storyline like TNA's "Abyss is retarded" or "Kevin Nash likes money".
Face it, if we interviewed 100 people on the street, far more would be able to name Ryder than any single TNA wrestler other than maybe Kurt Angle, and that's only because Angle was in the Olympics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.16.113.252 ( talk) 23:46, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Mostly unstorylined. Aside from wanting a title, he's had no other storyline aside from a singing contest with Benjamin. He has a page, it's here, deal with it. When his career is different enough that this page is no longer mainly about the tag team then he'll get a page. As is his career has been 5 years in a tag team, 15-20 matches not. Tony2Times ( talk) 00:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
The above section is extremely long and gets off subject alot. Starting anew is better.
Okay, lets get to it. I'm going to hopefully show why Zack Ryder should not have an individual page. First, the argument that it seems no one on the opposite side can understand. This article is about the history of both wrestlers. Why is that? Because they have spent the majority of their careers together. To break the article in half to make two new articles would be WP:Content forking. The subject material can easily fit into another article. Understand, it is not that we don't like Ryder, Hawkins, etc; it is instead that we can't reasonably give him his own page because of guidelines. Ryder is notable, and he has a page right here. That is far as he is going to get at the moment. He could win the ECW Championship, but still then will not get his own page. Why you ask? Because it is still content forking. The current ECW section on Ryder is actually more in depth than it should.
Now, this site is called "Wikipedia" not the "WWEpedia". Other promotions mean just as much as WWE is a notability sense. Reliable sources make subjects notable. No third party RELIABLE sources, then a subject is not notable. In this case, we have enough sources to justify notability, but due to the content forking guideline, we can't have two bio articles. Now, you are welcome to do as much research as you want to find enough notable info that would justify a separation, like singles career outside of the tag team in other promotions than WWE. Hell, if Hawkins was release tomorrow and debuted in ROH, he would be more notable than Ryder would. Why? Because he would have wrestled in more than one promotion in a singles career. Hopefully everyone understands now. Content forking prevents us from separating the article.-- Will C 00:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
If Tyler Reks is a notable person, why can't Zack Ryder? Zack was in DSW and OVW with Hawkins yes, buts thats still one more "promotion" even if its still under and owned by WWE. Also Zack WAS in a feud with Shelton as they did team together, the singing competition and the single match. And he is becoming a prominent figure in WWE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 02:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
No, this page is not about Zack Ryder specifically, its is about the stable Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder or the Major Brothers. If it was about Zack Ryder, the page would be named Zack Ryder, you don't see Jeff and Matt Hardy's wrestling career under The Hardy Boyz do you? And stating that Zack Ryder is forgotten about is purely your point of view, so you can not argue that point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 01:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Zack is a notable person I agree with Will on that but if he is he should have his own page think about it 2 fueds Shelton Benjamin, and now with 4 different superstars ECW Champion Christian, William Regal, Vladimir Kozlov and Ezekial Jackson and has had a ECW championship match how long and how many main event matches will it take for Zack to get his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I know nothing about the Wikipedia law but Ryder really doesn't deserve his own page. If you look at anyone else's page, an entire year or more is only a few paragraphs even people like John Cena or Randy Orton. With that in mind, it's obvious Ryder hasn't done anything like they have since he split with Curt Hawkins. He's won a few squash matches, feuded with Shelton and had a couple main events on ECW. If he spent maybe a year on ECW with a run with the title and more feuds, got drafted to SmackDown! or RAW then won the IC Title or something and feuded for a bit then did some other stuff over a longer period of time, accomplishing more in a singles career then he should get a page since if you did try to make a Zack Ryder page right now it'd have exactly the same as this page except almost a week-by-week rundown of his singles career in ECW to make it seem bigger. He'll get his own page when he does more credible things as a singles wrestler and that just makes more sense than having two pages floating around with the same info minus a few sentences. 190.59.13.89 ( talk) 03:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Above post makes no sense. Just give him his own page he's been on ECW for months now.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 16:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm trying to make a consensus but you guys continue to disagree why don't you merge Jeff Hardy and Matt Hardy to Hardy Boyz or merge Edge and Randy Orton to Rated-RKO or especially merege Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes to The Legacy or merge John Morrison and The Miz to John Morrison and The Miz or Jesse and Festus to Jesse and Festus and last why don't you merge Shawn Michaels and Triple H to D-Generation X but all these people have different pages so why not split Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder and give Zack a page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 20:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Will poor poor Will you just don't understand and watch your mouth don't take your anger out on me that wasn't a dumb question. Oh and most of Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase's Careers have been tag teams especially Cody he's almost started with Holly right away.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 20:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Meh, might as well just start pages for both of them and do something...
What's the point of all you guys saying that Zack doesn't deserve a page he's notable enough for his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 22:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Zack deserves his own page just like i've always said before and all the explainations i've given.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 21:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you should propose an article in a sandbox of yours. Write up his article, bearing in mind that as this page exists to talk in detail about his tag team, it would be summarised in far less depth on his own article (cf The Hardy Boys' articles and their own pages.) Maybe then we can see if there is any credence in a Zack article at this time. Tony2Times ( talk) 21:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
Since Ryder is obviously more established than Hawkins, why don't we just rename this article "Zack Ryder" and make the first part about his early career with Curt Hawkins, and then have it become about Ryder after the breakup. I just don't understand what it would hurt giving Zack Ryder his own article considering wikipedia has articles about everything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NotoriousND22 ( talk • contribs) 00:19, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Zack and Curt do not have a page!!! Their STABLE or TAG TEAM have a page but not either one of them!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 23:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
The interesting thing is that people keep thinking that just because Zack has a singles career in ECW they think that Hawkins' doesn't have a singles career in FCW. Zack may be getting more screen-time but if Hawkins' were to win a singles title in FCW he'd actually be more acceptable to getting his own article than Zack Ryder. 190.59.20.64 ( talk) 02:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree with both of you, the people pushing the "content forking" I think are just fans to take wrestling a wee bit to serious and don't like Ryder because of his character. They are both notable as they both have been in 2 other promotions which means they have Independant experiance, just like Tyler Reks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.142.63 ( talk) 03:14, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Well if Zack and Curt don't get single, seperate articles, then explain to me why Tyler Reks should get one without just saying "He passes guidelines for being a notable person". Because Tyler = 2 promotions, Zack and Curt, whilst they have competed in a team for many years have SPLIT = DIFFERANT CAREERS!!! And have both wrestled in FIVE promotions AND held titles, I'm sure thats notable not just to have a STABLE PAGE, which is what this is! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.142.63 ( talk) 07:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I just don't get Ryder AND Hawkins have been well into their singles career Hawkins has been on a winning streak in FCW and Ryder has been in a lot of main event matches i'm just saying this because part of this is people saying that if we give Ryder a page we have to give Hawkins a page and we now can.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 01:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok Will and TOny, this is meant to be a discussion about Splitting the article being talked about, not a "I'm so big, I can talk trash with a keyboard" article. Just thought that needed clearing up. Second, Zack and Curt will most likely not get their own Single article at this moment, but in a years time It most likely will, going back to the trend of Hawkins winning streak and Ryders "main event-ish" status. Now if you want to discuss this article, please dicuss it, not behave like whiny brats or big computer pychotic nerds and try an act all cool by saying you are going over to the UK to kill people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 07:32, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry Rob, didn't write my words properly. meant to write "Who's to say in a years time...". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 18:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC) People need to keep a better eye on this page. It's had repeated vandalism. The same person keeps vandalizing Dustin Rhodes. Here's their latest IP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/190.59.21.71 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.23.156.97 ( talk) 20:29, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok i'll work on my subpage and then show it to you guys and then you'll see.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 00:22, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Who's to say anytime soon Will? Hawkins could suddenly go to TNA, and win the TNA World Heavyweight Title, or Ryder, a very unlikely event but who would know with WWE lol! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 02:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Would Ryder get his own if he became ECW Champion defeated Christian in a rematch a Survivor Series and then defended it in Championship Scramble at TLC and then won the Royal Rumble then defened it against William Regal and then next week Christian then Vladimir Kozlov then Ezekial Jackson, then won an elimation chamber match to defend the ECW championship at elimation chamber then defended it in a six pack challenge then next week a triple threat soon defeating every person on the ECW roster in a championship match and then at Wrestlemania won the WWE Championship for winning the Royal Rumble then defending both championships against thw whole ECW roster then kept defending it through Backlash and Extreme Rules then would he get his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 14:55, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
He would have needed the Intercontinental Championship as well and also win the Money In The Bank, King of the Ring, all the Slammys, TNA World Heavyweight Championship, have a 20 year career in RoH, win the World Heavyweight Championship and beat Curt Hawkins in a "Winner Gets Their Own Wikipedia Page" Match to have his own page. :P 190.59.9.44 ( talk) 23:54, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
For Hawkins or Ryder to get their own page, one of them would have to join another NOTABLE company or star in movies etc. E.g. Ryder goes to TNA, therefore Ryder becomes a notable person as he is with another mainstream brand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
WWE should actually do a "Winner Gets Their Own Wikipedia Page" Match between Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder since there's so much fighting over it, you know, capitalize on something real. 190.59.9.44 ( talk) 21:32, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Miikro. At the moment Zack nor Curt havn't done much to become notable enough. In my opinion if Curt was to debeut as the "Gay gimmick" thing in WWE and Him and Ryder were to still be single star-type-things then the case for seperation of this article will be greater than what it is now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs) 08:01, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Where did you hear about Hawkins having a "Gay Gimmick"? 190.59.2.127 ( talk) 01:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I read on a wrestling news site that Curt Hawkins is set to debut on the December 1 edition of ECW. His gimmick well be that of a Hardcore old school ECW fan, he frequently states he was trained by Mikey Whipwreck, and he chants "ECDUB" and "ECW" on his way to the ring and after wins, not unlike Tommy Dreamer. His ring name well be Edgar Compton Wright and is set to fued with Zack Ryder, who apparently wins the ECW Championship sometime soon 142.162.55.94 ( talk) 12:26, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I just checked my history and it urns out it got deleted, so I can't get to the site, but I'll try to look for it. 142.162.55.94 ( talk) 14:25, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
If that site did have all those details, WWE would have changed them/canceled them since they hate when stories get leaked especially over a month in advance... 190.59.19.249 ( talk) 01:31, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Just split them Ryder is notable I mean he's a main-eventer been on ECW for 7 months or a little more than 210 days he's had an ECW Championship Shot won a 10-man battle royal and is currently engaged in a huge fued.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 23:45, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Define "huge feud" because from the looks of things, they've given up on pushing Ryder on ECW since he lost his match against Shelton Benjamin on ECW and also hasn't had any real promos for a while minus a Rosa Mendes fantasy. 190.59.19.249 ( talk) 01:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Tony they are not the same.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 21:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Here is your winner and NEW ECW Champion, Zack Ryder.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 23:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I was being positive.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 17:10, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I've been editing my subpage here it is.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 17:57, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
That subpage just proves that Ryder doesn't deserve his own page since it's going to be the same as this one minus a few lines. When Ryder has more of an actual singles career then he'll get a page. Right now, this page is good enough for both of them. 190.59.254.116 ( talk) 00:10, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
No it proves he deserves his own page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
You said once he has a sucessful storyline it would make him noteable he's having a storyline with Rosa Mendes and Shelton Benjamin anyway even though this is making him more noteable he's always been noteable so give him a page.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 16:19, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
I never said that. One storyline means nothing. He will have to do alot more to be notable enough for his own page. He has one right now, right here, so get over it.-- Will C 21:16, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
The first thread about splitting the article was back in April. Since August, this page has had some running discussion about making a split. It's very silly to continue arguing over this. I'm not going to give my opinion, because that's not why I'm posting. I suggest all editors involved here walk away and find an article to productively edit. iMatthew talk at 21:32, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Yah it does need to end but nobody agrees with what's right splitting the page. I mean making a page for Zack Ryder I mean he's very noteable I mean almost every WWE fan I know (and that's a lot) know him.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 04:43, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
I found something according to the content forking article it says that they have to be on the same subject so the only thing that keeps me from splitting the article is what you have about Ryder on ECW if you took out the championship match thing and stuff it woulnd't be content forking.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 04:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
What do you have to do to be noteable you haven't specified that what do you have to do I bet he's way more noteable (without his tag team career) then anybody in ECW's new superstar initiative and everybody from that has their own page explain that.-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
By comparison Zack Ryder has spent 6 months as a singles wrestler in one company wrestling mostly different people each week with only 20 televised matches of which 7 have been against the same competitor more than once. Contrast that with 4 years of tag team wrestling in four different promotions, winning 3 seperate titles and being a tag team inside La Familia which dominated SmackDown's programming for 7 months during their involvement of it. Tony2Times ( talk) 03:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Please stop I don't like these kinds of fights. Back to the subject. I'm talking about people like Tyler Reks what have they done?-- 74.235.5.234 ( talk) 00:49, 17 November 2009 (UTC) Sorry i'm Curtis.^ Forgot to log in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.235.5.234 ( talk) 00:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Hehehe Curtis thats been my argument for ages as I was one of the first to bring him up! Lol. Personally I think there needs to be a vote as its been proved splitting won't be "COntent forking" but then people still say Ryder still isn't notable was is a fair argument as in some cases he can, and some he isn't. Someone just needs to start a new sub and have a vote tally there. And we can see if anyone edits the votes incase anyone is saying or thinking that people can do that because your IP adress will show up on the changes page of this discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devilfreak12 ( talk • contribs)
Zack Ryder -- Curtis23 ( talk) 03:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey i'm new but I think Zack should get his own account.--You don't know me 03:16, 21 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtis23 ( talk • contribs)
That Zack Ryder page is the exact same except it has an almost perfect recollection of the very small Ryder/Shelton/Rosa feud which Wikipedia doesn't need, as all the details you gave for it on the page are week by week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRealEeL ( talk • contribs) 21:35, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that Team 3D does. Granted Team 3D is one of the biggest names in tag team wrestling of all time, but what have they done in their careers without each other? Aside from the 2-line "Singles Career" parts of their articles, and their short split due to the WWE Draft (both of which could be summarized in single paragraph if the articles were merged), they have never been apart. Explain why (aside from their fame as a tag team) they deserve separate articles any more then Ryder & Hawkins. KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 08:14, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
http://twitter.com/thecurthawkins - according to Hawkin's twitter, he is one of the FCW tag team champions. Last I checked, the dudebusters were the tag team champions. Care to shed some light? KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 08:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, Hawkins is even listed on Wikipedia's FCW Tag Team Championship page as having been a champion... it should be added but there's no source that's truly reliable... If Hawkins did win that title, he's actually more notable than Ryder lol. 190.59.0.135 ( talk) 17:07, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
I got a link to a reliable source that shows that Hawkins wins a title without Ryder in FCW, I'll post it here since it has yet to be shown on TV: http://pwinsider.com/article/43134/florida-championship-wrestling-tv-taping-results-irwin-r-shyster-appears-kaval-low-ki-back-in-action-and-more.html?p=1
I think that we should expand Hawkins article more, talking about his time in The Dudebusters and his championship reign in FCW. 190.59.0.135 ( talk) 16:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Well now that were on the topic of Hawkins yes he is FCW Tag Team Champion so lets give him a page.-- 74.235.5.212 ( talk) 02:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I never said it did. What I am asking is who the hell is the tag team champions lol? KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 08:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Your letting Hawkins have a page and not Ryder?-- Curtis23 ( talk) 02:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Curtis, if Hawkins would to get a page, then so would Ryder.-- Will C 03:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I never said give Hawkins his own page, just expand his article in the split section of this article. Hawkins is admittedly more notable than Zack Ryder because he's one a championship without Ryder around and with another team plus he's in a feud in FCW while he's with The Dudebusters. Ryder's done nothing compared to Hawkins. Ryder's had brief feuds with random people that amounted to nothing while Hawkins entered tons of feuds in FCW, made a new team The Dudebusters and won a title. Let's expand Hawkins' article who actually has done more than Ryder, and while we're at it, clear out the split section with all this stuff people put there about Ryder just to make it look longer than it should be and replace it with Hawkins information. 190.59.10.252 ( talk) 09:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Not to start an argument but if Hawkins is so much more notable why isn't he on the main roster? KP McZiggy (Allow Me To Introduce Myself...) 02:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
It is all about information and reliable sources to back up that information. Just appearing on the main roster for two weeks then disappearing doesn't make that guy more notable over, lets say, a guy who has worked in countless indy promotions and been covered in-depthly by third party reliable sources. It isn't about who deserves one.-- Will C 07:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Does anybody know if Curt is the real FCW Tag Champion or if it is still the Rutundos?-- Curtis23 ( talk) 16:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I have to ask, why does the Broski reference keep getting added to the section about Zack Ryder's image change? There is no proof at all that Zack Ryder's look and/or gimmick is based on the Broski internet video. Nobody has actually shown any proof of anyone certifying this claim.
Until it is certified if his look and/or gimmick are based on the Broski internet video, it's just pure speculation and coincidence and therefor I believe it should not be added to the article. - User: Cool King 16:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Now that they are on ECW what about Hawkins and his FCW Tag Team Championship reign.-- Curtis23 (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.24.27.225 ( talk) 03:48, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I took the liberty to update Hawkins section of the "split" area... all those crazy Zack Ryder fans should notice that Hawkins' section actually has more details about his career in FCW rather than hisnew look and catchphrases and whatever else you try to add to make his[Zack Ryder] article look bigger. Anyway, I updated Hawkins' career while in FCW hope you guys enjoy, anything else would be great. 190.59.31.234 ( talk) 06:05, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
What about the rumors that Hawkins will debut in ECW alongside Bazooka Kaboom (ROH Superstar Bryan Danielson)?
Would that be grounds for a split, since it both men would would be on WWE Television as separate characters.
I personally feel that the Dudebusters is enough of a differentiation, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.239.211 ( talk) 01:09, 11 December 2009 (UTC)