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Believe what you want about the Majestic documents, but stating that Truman purportedly assembled the group in 1952 is far too late. That should be obvious by James Forrestal's inclusion in the listed twelve. Forrestal, at that time, had been dead for three years. GwydionRhys ( talk) 18:39, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure how he fits in. If I remember correctly He was just mentioned. Walter form the B.M.R.F. ( talk) 02:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
“…obviously planted to bolster the legitimacy of the briefing papers". Does the source cited specify who could have planted a document in the National Archives, and how that would even be possible? I haven’t been able to find the quote either. Betaparticle1002 ( talk) 05:51, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
I have confirmed that the text in question does indeed reside in the cited source on page 205, Enemies Within: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America, Robert Alan Goldberg, Yale University Press, 2002. On December 11, 1984, Jaime Shandera, a research associate of Stan Friedman’s and Bill Moore’s, received an envelope with no return address containing a roll of exposed but unprocessed black-and-white 35mm film. When developed, the film revealed eight pages, the most important of which were portions of an alleged briefing paper dated November 18, 1952, and prepared for newly elected President Dwight Eisenhower...In follow-up, the researchers (Moore, Friedman, and Shandera) received postcards with riddles whose solutions revealed the location of documents in the National Archives obviously planted to bolster the legitimacy of the briefing papers. Bill Moore, in secret communication with men claiming to be members of the U.S. intelligence community, was shown additional materials that testified to the papers’ authenticity.
The original text was attributed to Goldberg, Consequently, I am reverting this edit. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 01:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
By chance, I happened upon an apparent CIA document that a Lee M. Graham of Monrovia, California shared with Peter Keisler, Associate Council to President Reagan, on 5/27/1987 as part of a FOIA request he'd submitted some time earlier.
The document can be found on Page 10 of the following PDF, which has been made publicly available by the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library: https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/public/2021-06/40-654-209237722-045-010-2021.pdf
It states that President Truman established a "top secret research and development intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States" on 9/24/1947 upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary James Forrestal. It goes on to state that the "[redacted] group" were designated as:
•Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter •Dr. Vannevar Bush •Secy. James V. Forrestal •Gen. Nathan F. Twining •Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg •Dr. Detlev Bronk •Dr. Jerome Hunsaker •Mr. Sidney W. Souers •Mr. Gordon Gray •Dr. Donald Menzel •Gen. Robert M. Montague •Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner
The document appears to be a briefing prepared for Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, who is subsequently referred to as "MJ-1".
Seeing as these are the same twelve men who've been purported to comprise Majestic 12—and since it states these twelve men belong to a "top secret research and development intelligence operation" that was established by President Truman in the same year that Majestic 12 was allegedly established—I believe that this briefing may confirm Majestic 12's existence.
Mr. Graham shared this document with Mr. Keisler in the hopes that he would authenticate it (see Page 6). Mr. Keisler cites Kissinger v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press (see Page 4) and states that "we respectfully decline to comply with [his] request."
Since this was a formal correspondence between a man (Mr. Graham) who appeared to be in possession of CIA documentation confirming Majestic 12's existence and the Associate Council to President Reagan (Mr. Keisler), I believe it should be described in some substantive way in this article.
Any of your thoughts, comments, concerns, and/or objections are welcomed. I had little familiarity with Majestic 12 prior to reviewing this document and reading this Wikipedia article, and so I'd appreciate contextual feedback of any kind. Felixkennedy ( talk) 07:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Majestic 12 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Believe what you want about the Majestic documents, but stating that Truman purportedly assembled the group in 1952 is far too late. That should be obvious by James Forrestal's inclusion in the listed twelve. Forrestal, at that time, had been dead for three years. GwydionRhys ( talk) 18:39, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure how he fits in. If I remember correctly He was just mentioned. Walter form the B.M.R.F. ( talk) 02:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
“…obviously planted to bolster the legitimacy of the briefing papers". Does the source cited specify who could have planted a document in the National Archives, and how that would even be possible? I haven’t been able to find the quote either. Betaparticle1002 ( talk) 05:51, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
I have confirmed that the text in question does indeed reside in the cited source on page 205, Enemies Within: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America, Robert Alan Goldberg, Yale University Press, 2002. On December 11, 1984, Jaime Shandera, a research associate of Stan Friedman’s and Bill Moore’s, received an envelope with no return address containing a roll of exposed but unprocessed black-and-white 35mm film. When developed, the film revealed eight pages, the most important of which were portions of an alleged briefing paper dated November 18, 1952, and prepared for newly elected President Dwight Eisenhower...In follow-up, the researchers (Moore, Friedman, and Shandera) received postcards with riddles whose solutions revealed the location of documents in the National Archives obviously planted to bolster the legitimacy of the briefing papers. Bill Moore, in secret communication with men claiming to be members of the U.S. intelligence community, was shown additional materials that testified to the papers’ authenticity.
The original text was attributed to Goldberg, Consequently, I am reverting this edit. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 01:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
By chance, I happened upon an apparent CIA document that a Lee M. Graham of Monrovia, California shared with Peter Keisler, Associate Council to President Reagan, on 5/27/1987 as part of a FOIA request he'd submitted some time earlier.
The document can be found on Page 10 of the following PDF, which has been made publicly available by the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library: https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/public/2021-06/40-654-209237722-045-010-2021.pdf
It states that President Truman established a "top secret research and development intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States" on 9/24/1947 upon recommendation by Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary James Forrestal. It goes on to state that the "[redacted] group" were designated as:
•Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter •Dr. Vannevar Bush •Secy. James V. Forrestal •Gen. Nathan F. Twining •Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg •Dr. Detlev Bronk •Dr. Jerome Hunsaker •Mr. Sidney W. Souers •Mr. Gordon Gray •Dr. Donald Menzel •Gen. Robert M. Montague •Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner
The document appears to be a briefing prepared for Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, who is subsequently referred to as "MJ-1".
Seeing as these are the same twelve men who've been purported to comprise Majestic 12—and since it states these twelve men belong to a "top secret research and development intelligence operation" that was established by President Truman in the same year that Majestic 12 was allegedly established—I believe that this briefing may confirm Majestic 12's existence.
Mr. Graham shared this document with Mr. Keisler in the hopes that he would authenticate it (see Page 6). Mr. Keisler cites Kissinger v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press (see Page 4) and states that "we respectfully decline to comply with [his] request."
Since this was a formal correspondence between a man (Mr. Graham) who appeared to be in possession of CIA documentation confirming Majestic 12's existence and the Associate Council to President Reagan (Mr. Keisler), I believe it should be described in some substantive way in this article.
Any of your thoughts, comments, concerns, and/or objections are welcomed. I had little familiarity with Majestic 12 prior to reviewing this document and reading this Wikipedia article, and so I'd appreciate contextual feedback of any kind. Felixkennedy ( talk) 07:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)