![]() | Magic in Middle-earth has been listed as one of the
Language and literature good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: November 18, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
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![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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The article says "Men and Hobbits could not directly work magic, but could make use of more or less magical artefacts made by others, such as Númenorean swords (made by Men with Elvish blood) and the Phial of Galadriel given to Frodo." This statement reflects a debunked point of view that is based on a selective citation (letter no. 155 - an unsent, unfinished fragment he abandoned). It also compresses a misunderstanding about the Númenorean ancestry. They were not all descended from Elves - or, rather, it cannot be shown (from Tolkien's statements) that they were all descended from Elvish blood. Only the descendants of Elros claimed such ancestry.
As for the use of magic, Tolkien noted that his logic failed when attempting to explain in the unsent fragment designated 155. The 2nd end-note for the letter reads: "Alongside the final paragraph, Tolkien has written: 'But the Númenóreans used "spells" in making swords?'" So this article must not represent a single point of view, especially in the opening summary. It's fair to acknowledge differences of interpretation provided those differences can be properly sourced, but many sources that quote or reference the letter ignore the end-note. Gareth Knight's 'The Magical World of the Inklings' is a good example. He discusses the points Tolkien made in the letter but omits the end-note's mention that Tolkien annotated the draft and abandoned it. Ronald Hutton, in his paper, 'Tolkien's Magic', does call out the end-note.
The article should be updated to note these oversights and Tolkien's own change of mind by referencing the end-note directly. Michael Martinez ( talk) 21:54, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
The "Self-wrapped weapons" section incorrectly states "Men of Númenor forged named swords with power to shine in presence of Orcs,[T 30][10]". The cited sources do not support this statement, which contradicts what the books themselves say anyway. The weapons that glowed in the presence of orcs were made by elves (and not just the elves of Gondolin). Michael Martinez ( talk) 13:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Magic in Middle-earth has been listed as one of the
Language and literature good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: November 18, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
|
The article says "Men and Hobbits could not directly work magic, but could make use of more or less magical artefacts made by others, such as Númenorean swords (made by Men with Elvish blood) and the Phial of Galadriel given to Frodo." This statement reflects a debunked point of view that is based on a selective citation (letter no. 155 - an unsent, unfinished fragment he abandoned). It also compresses a misunderstanding about the Númenorean ancestry. They were not all descended from Elves - or, rather, it cannot be shown (from Tolkien's statements) that they were all descended from Elvish blood. Only the descendants of Elros claimed such ancestry.
As for the use of magic, Tolkien noted that his logic failed when attempting to explain in the unsent fragment designated 155. The 2nd end-note for the letter reads: "Alongside the final paragraph, Tolkien has written: 'But the Númenóreans used "spells" in making swords?'" So this article must not represent a single point of view, especially in the opening summary. It's fair to acknowledge differences of interpretation provided those differences can be properly sourced, but many sources that quote or reference the letter ignore the end-note. Gareth Knight's 'The Magical World of the Inklings' is a good example. He discusses the points Tolkien made in the letter but omits the end-note's mention that Tolkien annotated the draft and abandoned it. Ronald Hutton, in his paper, 'Tolkien's Magic', does call out the end-note.
The article should be updated to note these oversights and Tolkien's own change of mind by referencing the end-note directly. Michael Martinez ( talk) 21:54, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
The "Self-wrapped weapons" section incorrectly states "Men of Númenor forged named swords with power to shine in presence of Orcs,[T 30][10]". The cited sources do not support this statement, which contradicts what the books themselves say anyway. The weapons that glowed in the presence of orcs were made by elves (and not just the elves of Gondolin). Michael Martinez ( talk) 13:44, 24 June 2023 (UTC)