![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
199.182.102.21 added this bit of info:
However, I believe this does not belong in the main mage because a) It is a reference to a specific card's ability, and b) the same can be said of hundreds of other cards. I don't think we want to have an all inclusive list of card abilities here; Wizards of the Coast and other entities have published plenty of these for reference purposes. Thus, I moved the sentence here. Stormwriter
Re: Religious criticisms: I wish these folks would get their heads out of their asses. It's a game for goodness sake.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. Fundies have no sense of humor. Stormwriter
Why does this article have a trademark notice next to the first appearance of the term? I've never seen any other article have one. Is not including it illegal? Tokerboy 04:20 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
Travelling v. traveling - according to the online American heritage dictionary:
Both spellings are actually correct. Williamv1138
There risks being too many expansions listed on this page making it unwieldy. Perhaps it would be better as a sidebar or linked to a separate page.
I took the plunge and actually created new pages for the base sets and expansions. I also took the DCI, made it its own page and moved all tourney info there. I hope people find this makes the page more manageable.
Unweildy is right. I tried doing some cleaning up on this article and found it to be completely incoherently structured. Terms like "permanent" and "mana" and "colorless" come flying at the reader before they have ever been defined. I cleaned up "permanent" a bit, but I think this page lacks a clear vision. Is this a page to tell people what magic is, so they know what their 14-year-old son is asking for for X-mas? Is it supposed to teach them the rules? Is it supposed to be a history lesson for lovers of the game? Of the tournament scene?
I think the folks typing in "Magic: The Gathering" on Wikipedia search are not really interested in the different between local and global enchantments. Anyone else agree here?
Just a warning: The Magic card images posted (6 magic cards from various editions) may fall under copyright. I say "may" because I don't know for sure. Mike Church 15:15, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I removed this section:
One outspoken critic of Magic, a designer named Mike Church (known for the card game Ambition), disagrees. Church, who referred to Magic in 2003 as a "money-spending contest dressed up as a fantasy game", described mana-screw as a "gaping flaw in the design of [Magic]... that should've been fixed in the first day of playtesting". As he quipped, "mana-screw makes a whole 20 minutes of play not fun, and that's just bad design. How hard is it to have two piles, one for land, and one for spells, and let the player choose which to draw from?" However, critics of Church have pointed out that, according to a blog post, he admits to not having played Magic since 1998, and therefore should be discounted as a credible voice in the contemporary Magic-playing community.
This was written by anonymous user 137.22.4.102, who is (thought likely to be, by User: Andrewlevine)* Mike Church (see page history on Community card poker, which he edited from the same IP range). It is silly for the article to refer to "one outspoken critic of Magic" whom 99.9999% of the people who play Magic have never heard of, as if he were somebody well-known for his critiques. It should be self-evident why Church extensively quoting himself is not appropriate here. He has designed a few games which are still well under the radar of people in the gaming comunity, and I hope he does not take it the wrong way when I say that he is not (yet?) famous enough to warrant quoting himself the way he did.
If anyone should be quoted on why mana-screw is a design flaw, it should be Zvi Mowshowitz, who is a very well-known critic of Magic's fundamental design from within the game's own community, and who is very well-known and respected among Magic players. I will see if I can dig up a few quotes from him on the subject. Andrewlevine 03:45, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
(*parenthetical added by another user)
Could www.Magic-League.com be added to the "Playing Magic on the Internet-section" and/or to the related links section? E-League actually hasn't got a ratings system anymore. We also run some tournaments with Magic Workstation, another online play application. But it is still in beta stages. Koen 20:29, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
Question about the patent: I added a graf about the WotC suit against Nintendo. The suit had the potential to determine the validity of the patent, but it was settled early. I'm not enough involved in CCG's to know whether there have been any other suits. If no other suits have been filed, or if every suit filed has been settled or is still in an early enough stage that there's been no ruling on that issue, then it would be accurate for us to add, "The validity of this controversial patent has never been ruled on by a court." If that statement is correct, it would be useful information to add to the discussion of the patent. Given my limited knowledge of the field, the best I could do was to allude to the issue by noting that patents issued by the Patent Office are subject to judicial review. JamesMLane 04:53, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
Moved from article: The decision to patent an entire genre of game was highly controversial. While none would argue that the company should own the rights to Magic's particular rules, art, flavor text, game structure, and other copyrightable materials, the patent covers many game mechanics that neither Garfield nor Wizards invented, but which had not been patented before. Some of these game mechanics (modular play using collectible items, physical manipulation of objects to indicate temporary "tap"ping of their powers) predated Magic by decades in other game genres and are still therein used, unchallenged by Wizards. However, all who own collectible card games pay a royalty based upon this patent. While the patent's scope would likely be dramatically reduced if it were used in a lawsuit, the costs of such a legal challenge would by far exceed the royalty rates. In this sense, Wizards uses the patent to exact tributes, ruling by fear.
The description next to the Kai Budde link doesn't seem to follow NPOV, although I don't know (which is why I am not removing it myself). I don't follow the tournament scene. Whatever happened to Jon Finkel? - RealGrouchy 00:33, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
"People who own more than $1000 in Magic cards are empirically more likely to get septed than those who do not, by a margin believed to be roughly 75 percent." what the hell is this about? Vroman 02:06, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
How about doing an article about every Magic set? That's what I'm going to do. Some help is needed though. Want to participiate? See User:Grue/MTGSets for more information. Grue 09:07, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Ravnica: City of Guilds, is set to be the major release for Magic the Gathering's 2005/2006 block. The release date is set to be on 7 Oct, 2005. The codename for this set is "Control", and the other 2 minor set are "Alt" and "Del". Can this be included here? It seems too small for its own article and I have no way to verify it's true or not. [[User:MacGyverMagic| Mgm| (talk)]] 13:38, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)
The article says "Lands are colorless, and are never considered spells." (my italics)
Is it accurate that Lands are colorless? RJFJR 14:23, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
If Magic has Medium rules complexity and strategy depth, what are some examples of games with High? Very few games have been infobox'd, so I have no idea what the scale we're looking at is. Also, is "Some" a consistent term when the other terms are things like High/Medium/Low? Shouldn't all three categories, in fact, be High/Medium/Low? (I noticed Monopoly (game) uses "Easy" for Rules Complexity, but I'll take it up with that Talk page :) ) 209.114.249.74 20:01, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Be aware that as of December 31st, 2004 this article is approaching or has exceeded the 32K recommended max size.
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
199.182.102.21 added this bit of info:
However, I believe this does not belong in the main mage because a) It is a reference to a specific card's ability, and b) the same can be said of hundreds of other cards. I don't think we want to have an all inclusive list of card abilities here; Wizards of the Coast and other entities have published plenty of these for reference purposes. Thus, I moved the sentence here. Stormwriter
Re: Religious criticisms: I wish these folks would get their heads out of their asses. It's a game for goodness sake.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. Fundies have no sense of humor. Stormwriter
Why does this article have a trademark notice next to the first appearance of the term? I've never seen any other article have one. Is not including it illegal? Tokerboy 04:20 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)
Travelling v. traveling - according to the online American heritage dictionary:
Both spellings are actually correct. Williamv1138
There risks being too many expansions listed on this page making it unwieldy. Perhaps it would be better as a sidebar or linked to a separate page.
I took the plunge and actually created new pages for the base sets and expansions. I also took the DCI, made it its own page and moved all tourney info there. I hope people find this makes the page more manageable.
Unweildy is right. I tried doing some cleaning up on this article and found it to be completely incoherently structured. Terms like "permanent" and "mana" and "colorless" come flying at the reader before they have ever been defined. I cleaned up "permanent" a bit, but I think this page lacks a clear vision. Is this a page to tell people what magic is, so they know what their 14-year-old son is asking for for X-mas? Is it supposed to teach them the rules? Is it supposed to be a history lesson for lovers of the game? Of the tournament scene?
I think the folks typing in "Magic: The Gathering" on Wikipedia search are not really interested in the different between local and global enchantments. Anyone else agree here?
Just a warning: The Magic card images posted (6 magic cards from various editions) may fall under copyright. I say "may" because I don't know for sure. Mike Church 15:15, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I removed this section:
One outspoken critic of Magic, a designer named Mike Church (known for the card game Ambition), disagrees. Church, who referred to Magic in 2003 as a "money-spending contest dressed up as a fantasy game", described mana-screw as a "gaping flaw in the design of [Magic]... that should've been fixed in the first day of playtesting". As he quipped, "mana-screw makes a whole 20 minutes of play not fun, and that's just bad design. How hard is it to have two piles, one for land, and one for spells, and let the player choose which to draw from?" However, critics of Church have pointed out that, according to a blog post, he admits to not having played Magic since 1998, and therefore should be discounted as a credible voice in the contemporary Magic-playing community.
This was written by anonymous user 137.22.4.102, who is (thought likely to be, by User: Andrewlevine)* Mike Church (see page history on Community card poker, which he edited from the same IP range). It is silly for the article to refer to "one outspoken critic of Magic" whom 99.9999% of the people who play Magic have never heard of, as if he were somebody well-known for his critiques. It should be self-evident why Church extensively quoting himself is not appropriate here. He has designed a few games which are still well under the radar of people in the gaming comunity, and I hope he does not take it the wrong way when I say that he is not (yet?) famous enough to warrant quoting himself the way he did.
If anyone should be quoted on why mana-screw is a design flaw, it should be Zvi Mowshowitz, who is a very well-known critic of Magic's fundamental design from within the game's own community, and who is very well-known and respected among Magic players. I will see if I can dig up a few quotes from him on the subject. Andrewlevine 03:45, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)
(*parenthetical added by another user)
Could www.Magic-League.com be added to the "Playing Magic on the Internet-section" and/or to the related links section? E-League actually hasn't got a ratings system anymore. We also run some tournaments with Magic Workstation, another online play application. But it is still in beta stages. Koen 20:29, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
Question about the patent: I added a graf about the WotC suit against Nintendo. The suit had the potential to determine the validity of the patent, but it was settled early. I'm not enough involved in CCG's to know whether there have been any other suits. If no other suits have been filed, or if every suit filed has been settled or is still in an early enough stage that there's been no ruling on that issue, then it would be accurate for us to add, "The validity of this controversial patent has never been ruled on by a court." If that statement is correct, it would be useful information to add to the discussion of the patent. Given my limited knowledge of the field, the best I could do was to allude to the issue by noting that patents issued by the Patent Office are subject to judicial review. JamesMLane 04:53, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
Moved from article: The decision to patent an entire genre of game was highly controversial. While none would argue that the company should own the rights to Magic's particular rules, art, flavor text, game structure, and other copyrightable materials, the patent covers many game mechanics that neither Garfield nor Wizards invented, but which had not been patented before. Some of these game mechanics (modular play using collectible items, physical manipulation of objects to indicate temporary "tap"ping of their powers) predated Magic by decades in other game genres and are still therein used, unchallenged by Wizards. However, all who own collectible card games pay a royalty based upon this patent. While the patent's scope would likely be dramatically reduced if it were used in a lawsuit, the costs of such a legal challenge would by far exceed the royalty rates. In this sense, Wizards uses the patent to exact tributes, ruling by fear.
The description next to the Kai Budde link doesn't seem to follow NPOV, although I don't know (which is why I am not removing it myself). I don't follow the tournament scene. Whatever happened to Jon Finkel? - RealGrouchy 00:33, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
"People who own more than $1000 in Magic cards are empirically more likely to get septed than those who do not, by a margin believed to be roughly 75 percent." what the hell is this about? Vroman 02:06, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
How about doing an article about every Magic set? That's what I'm going to do. Some help is needed though. Want to participiate? See User:Grue/MTGSets for more information. Grue 09:07, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Ravnica: City of Guilds, is set to be the major release for Magic the Gathering's 2005/2006 block. The release date is set to be on 7 Oct, 2005. The codename for this set is "Control", and the other 2 minor set are "Alt" and "Del". Can this be included here? It seems too small for its own article and I have no way to verify it's true or not. [[User:MacGyverMagic| Mgm| (talk)]] 13:38, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)
The article says "Lands are colorless, and are never considered spells." (my italics)
Is it accurate that Lands are colorless? RJFJR 14:23, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
If Magic has Medium rules complexity and strategy depth, what are some examples of games with High? Very few games have been infobox'd, so I have no idea what the scale we're looking at is. Also, is "Some" a consistent term when the other terms are things like High/Medium/Low? Shouldn't all three categories, in fact, be High/Medium/Low? (I noticed Monopoly (game) uses "Easy" for Rules Complexity, but I'll take it up with that Talk page :) ) 209.114.249.74 20:01, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Be aware that as of December 31st, 2004 this article is approaching or has exceeded the 32K recommended max size.