![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Mark:
The changes you are reverting to Macroeconomics page are NOT a neutral point of view. The are clearly written by someone who (1) favors Keynsian economics and (2) does not understand economics. Much of what is written is irrevant to current Macroeconomic thought and represents a lay-persons thoughts and NOT the thoughts of the economics profession and some of the statements are just wrong!
Mark:
So it goes then with uneducated people watching over this project.
I think a paragraph about Hayek could be added to this article. He has been somehow erased by Keynes' fame, but I think he deserves to be mentioned here, and maybe, if someone has substantial argument about that, the main points of quarrel with Keynes could be explained. After all, Hayek was admittedly appointed to the LSE as a reply to Keynes. Although he gave up his theory of business cycles, it could be mentioned anyway.
Peutch 20:56, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I took out the following as it is totally wrong:
"* Rational Expectations represents a conservative school of macro-economics lead by Lucas, Prescott and Barro. It concentrates on the behavior at infinity of rational economic actors and the removal of barriers to the selection of rational strategies. It utilizes game theory among perfectly rational players to determine what the best strategy would be in the absence of other effects, and then in a normative fashion argues for the removal of "economic friction"."
First RE is NOT a "school" rather it is a hypothesis or an assumption. The behavior is NOT "at infinity" (whatever that means), it does not utilize game theory (???), there's no strategies just forecasts and the last part of the sentence makes absolutely no sense what so ever. RE should probably be mentioned somewhere in this article but correctly and in a relevant portion.
radek
06:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Bravo, Prescott ripped me a few months ago when I brought up one of Barro's paper... amusing how history may view things. That said he'd love the "conservative school" title although it is hardly NPOV-- how exactly is theory political?
I noticed that this page has extremely bad grammar. It reads more like a power-point slide than an encyclopedic entry. I would be glad to improve upon the grammar if I understood the subject better. Could someone who knows something about economics clean up the non-sentences and such. Vitamin D 00:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Were missing the extreme left of macroeconomic thought, central planning, esp. in the template. Ksenon 09:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I think a note should be added somewhere about Macroeconomics being an Advanced Placement course common in many schools throughout the world. The same goes for Microeconomics. I'm not exactly sure where to place this information, so if possible could someone else add it in. -- Zeerus ( E T C) 00:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
This page has little to do with marco-economics; it fails to acknowledge that marco-economics has been arround a lot longer than the 1930s (see for instances Quesnay, who esstentially modeled the economy as a whole); Jan Tinbergen's model was not the first macro model, it was the first of a wide range of macro-econometric models; New-Keynsian economics is based on the notion that markets may be imperfect but that agents do poses rational expectations; Neo-Keynesians on the other hand feel that in the short run the economy may behave in a style close to that of Keynes but that in the long-run it behaves in a classical fashion; etctera. If I have some time in future I would be well willing to composes a new page on macro. If anybody else feels like doing so I would propose to raise the basic issue in macro based on a standard framework in which the difference in the schools may be seen. For instance along the lines of [1], though it is a bit technical it does cover the main attributes of macro.
please i want to know more about the basi c element of keynesians rebuttal of yhe monetarist.
The text of the second sentence confounds several economic concepts. First there is the suggestion that GDP is somehow affected by changes in national income. This is formally correct because GDP is one measure of national income. Furthermore what is meant by "the rate of growth"? If GDP grows over time, then it exhibits a "growth rate", but it is not affected by the growth rate. The level of GDP is a measure of national income over a fixed period of time, and this level can change as the determinants of GDP change.
While I am an economist, I am not a macro-economist, and thus I do not feel qualified to edit the article. However, I would suggest that if one would want to succinctly introduce the main topics of macro-economics, those topics would be:
The determinants of long-run growth of income (as measured by GDP, GNP, etc.), the level of unemployment, the level of prices (and inflation), and the relationships between these three "big" macro-economic variables (income, prices, and employment).
I think this would be a good (but not easy!) project for a grad student with access to their core course notes, and modern macro texts at the undergrad, masters, and doctoral level.
Joel Kincaid 17:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Any of these exist? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.245.250.181 ( talk) 06:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
FSN often covers it
Tehd
01:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I added proper references for the Blaug and Frisch references.
Can someone knowledgable in the subject place a reference in the text for the Snowdon-Vane book ?
Cmskog 16:17, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Would the floating of a country's currency be considered a macroeconomic reform or a microeconomic reform? Thanks. Timeshift 06:43, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Austrian economics rejects "macroeconomics", hence it's not a form of macroeconomics. Macroeconomics deals with the behavior of economic sectors and aggregate forces. Their methodological individualism explicitly rejects the macroeconomic\microeconomic distinction, the mainstream notion that firms and individuals act in ways that are quite different from the way that economic sectors act. 69.138.16.202 ( talk) 11:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Suppose that government spending was increased by 10 units and that this increase was financed by a 10 unit increase in taxes. Would equilibrium income change or remain the same as result of these two policy action? If Equilibrium incime changed, in which direction would it move, and by how much? please explain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.185.68.121 ( talk) 04:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment -- the is ridiculous, intellectual error created by a simple semantic confusion. Boom and bust phenomena take place and must be explained. This is "macroeconomics" and Friedrich Hayek spent a good part of his career working in this field. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg Ransom ( talk • contribs) 04:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The history contained in this entry is massively false.
Example 1: There was all sorts of macroeconomic empirical work pre-1936. There were business cycle research institutes in many of the major countries of the world in the 1920s. Many of these still exist today. Mitchell's work was widely known far before 1936.
Example 2: There were all sorts of people working on trade cycle and monetary problems in the 100 years prior to 1936, folks in Germany, England, Sweden, and America. And its a fraud to represent these people as some sort of uniform "classical economics".
Example 3: Much or most of what people take to be "Keynesian Economics" existed in the work of other economists prior to Keynes' 1936 work (see Laidler, Fabricating the Keynesian Revolution", and the main pillar of 1930s-1970 "Keynesian Economics" wasn't Keynes, it was Hicks and Meade, etc.
Can't we fix this massive intellectual embarrassment? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg Ransom ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Uh, while there was a substantial literature that started in the 90's that focused on long term growth and innovation, I'm not sure that calling it an "alternative school of macroeconomics" is accurate - it was just one strand of Macro lit. radek ( talk) 19:09, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
The list of "three approaches" is completely nonstandard (and unsupported by citations). Rinconsoleao ( talk) 11:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
investigate the requirement at the different stages of growth of an organization? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.0.7.1 ( talk) 12:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
investigate the requirement at the different stages of growth of an organization? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.0.7.3 ( talk) 12:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
This image may be better than the current one. I translated it from the French and Spanish versions. Thoughts? -- Shinkansen Fan ( talk) 20:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
am a young economist and i wish to ask certain questions on national income yes you can — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.186.12.249 ( talk) 14:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
In reply to this pertainent question I had written an explanationn which is now included in the discussion further below (having been rejected from the article itself, shame!). The short answer is: a) to enable us to understand of what our social system consists b) to describe how our system works and c) to allow us to forecast how it will behave in the future. I might add that none of these aims are properly satisfied by present macroeconomic theory and analysis, although some useful pointers are available for governmental policy decisions. Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:43, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
The diagram that was at the beginning of this article (and shown above) is unsatisfctory and it has a number of faults.
1. Confusion between what is flowing and the entities or agents between which the flow exits or enters.
2. Insufficient agents. For a good representation of a social system of a country (not including The Rest of The World) a minimum of 6 are necessary and these need a minimum of 19 connecting double flows.
3. The place where the transactions take place is irrevalent and should be omitted.
4. Flow quantities have two names to define the kind of goods, services, valuable documents flowing in one direction ad to specify the money flowing in the reciprocal direction.
5. Thus each flow is a mutual flow having two opposing components.
A diagram which satisfies these requirements does more than indicate the circulation of money and goods etc. It also shows the model that is being used to represent the system. Such a diagram has now been included. It is a more suitable diagram, which does not have these faults and which can be used in general macroeconomics work and study, without having the implications of the present limited diagram. It is now available in wikicommons, Social Science, title: Diagram For A Functional Macroeconomics System (closed economy). file image: DiagFuncMacroSyst[1].pdf Macrocompassion ( talk) 08:22, 17 August 2011 (UTC) Macrocompassion ( talk) 14:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC) 85.65.139.173 ( talk) 15:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Although the following (and corrected) text was rejected by an editor, who claimed it is more like an essay, it is my claim that something like this is a necessary way of starting this important subject. The past article on macroeconomics is inadequate in a number of ways and it surely deserves better introductory and explanatory words. I therefore wish to present the same material here and for this editor to re-consider how best it might be included, instead of rejecting it out of hand, in a manner that is not in the Wikipedia spirit! Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Whilst there is a degree of uncertancy about macroeconomics, it is regarded as a science and as a result it has both theoretical and practical sides that are related. In discussing the subject is important to cover both of these aspects of the knowledge that comprises this inexact science.
Practical macroeconomics phenomena can be measured and related to the theoretical side, but in general the theories so far submitted are not sufficiently close to the actual society-at-large behavour as to properly explain how it works and to be able to forecast what will happen in future times. Experience is regarded as a good means of estimating what will happen too. For this reason a branch of economics called econometrics has been developed, which is based solely on the past performance of the social system. This performance is expressed mathematically in terms of statistical data and various coefficients for use in suitable time-dependent equations, for determining the behavour of various economics functions and variables. It has failed however, to provide a satisfactory means of telling when a sudden change is due and in general it becomes progressively less accurate in forecasting, as increasing future time intervals are taken.
In considering the theoretical aspects of macroeconomics a number of schools of thought have emerged, none of them being sufficiently complete or precise as to to be able to claim that their version of the science is completely correct. However, progress has been made and it can be said that some of the government policy decision-making as based on the theory has been useful, in that it has helped to both stabilize and advance the progress of the social system. Many alternate theories have been tried, but not all of them have worked properly and some have been adverse to progress. So that for all the profoundity, vitality and need to do the right thing for society-at-large, in fact it is the somewhat more selfish political considerations rather than the ideal theoretical ones that have dominated governmental policy-making.
In considering theoretical macroeconomics the first stage is one of defning terms and trying to set up a clear understanding of what is involved. This is difficult in that many theoretical studies seem to begin without a full statement of the assumptions, axioms and meanings of the terms being used. Thus the resulting (limited) theories, which in fact cover only some of the aspects of the social system-at-large, are not able to be properly joined together, nor do they find application to the whole of the community. Even so, the next stage in the process of developing a theory must then be to establish a suitable model that represents all or part of the social system. It is generally but not always conceded that the whole system is so big and complicated that it is impractical to represent it all, and consequently a smaller partial model is constructed with the unlikely assumption of there being no outside effects occurring during the operation of this model and within the limits of what it represents. Probably because of this, there has been so little agreement about how in theory the system actually works!
The early theories were directed at the aspects of production and consumption of goods so only the householders and producers were included. This is strange because the three factors of production, land, labor and durable capital goods, (and their returns ground-rent, wages and dividends/yield/interest) had already been defined by Adam Smith in 1765. Later theories concerned the effect of trade abroard and the relative effects of prices on the quantities of goods needed for both home and foreign businesses. A theory of money and its circulation was also developed but as can be seen there ideas are difficult as separated theories to become one seamless whole. Also in this discussion it is easy to confuse some of the microeconomics theories, such as those of supply and demand and the associated equilibrium assumptions and anaylses, with the macroeconomics ones which were fewer and less exacting as explained above. 85.65.139.173 ( talk) 15:43, 4 October 2011 (UTC) Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Definitions of, Place Within Social Science, Understanding Nature of, Purpose of, Theories About, Collection of Various Data and Their Use, Statistical Analysis (Econometrics), Schools of Thought, Development of (History), Government Policies from, Political Aspects (of Policy-Making), Mathematical Analysis for, Usefullness of, Forcasts of, Relation with Microeconomics, Educational Aspects.
This article has been found to be edited by students of the Wikipedia:India Education Program project as part of their (still ongoing) course-work. Unfortunately, many of the edits in this program so far have been identified as plain copy-jobs from books and online resources and therefore had to be reverted. See the India Education Program talk page for details. In order to maintain the WP standards and policies, let's all have a careful eye on this and other related articles to ensure that no material violating copyrights remains in here. -- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 12:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
The Flow diagram of the Economy, does not reflect current economic thinking and is a idiological representation. (its quite marxist in its ontology) It should be substitute by something that corresponds with todays text books. It could be also regarded as original research as it has no reference and I am unaware who today would produce such a flow diagram. (see also comment below, that indicate that this model original research. Davoud Taghawi-Nejad
I'm going to revert this series of edits. On the whole, they don't help the article, although they're much closer than some other recent things. There are four broad problems with the edits:
Anyway, overall I just don't think the edits help the article. All the above points need to be dealt with, but the edits also just need improvement. CRETOG8( t/ c) 04:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
The current Wikipedia presentation of Macroeconomics is inadequate and makes no attempt to present the subject in a comprehensive way. Granted that macroeconomics is a much debated subject with a number of schools of thought, it is still necessary to provide some general facts about it before entering into the variations. So I suggest that the editors for this subject begin to re-organize it according to a more logical and systematic basis.
The first thing that is missing is a statement about what macroeconomics actually is. This should not just define it but also describe what it is and what it does. Which parts of human society are involved and under which kind of general heading does it fall? Then we need to supply some general features about the subject which are distinct from microeconomics and which will not cause a student to get confused between the two. An illustration of the flow of money and materials within the whole social system would be useful at the start and help to focus the reader on the various aspects of the subject. The present diagram is unsatisfactory in this respect. It is both confusing and incomplete (see my other Talk).
The various division of the subject also need to be listed so that at least the following are mentioned: General Macroeconomics, Econometrics, Theoretical Macroeconomics, History of Macroeconomics, Moneist Theory, Keynesian Theories and subsequent Methods of Mnalysis, various other Schools of Thought in Macroeconomics, Mathematical and other Modeling in Macroeconomics to include the early Phillips Water Model and to continue with later models. These should cover various developments for both Short-Term Stability with Equilibrium and Long-term Dynamics including "Business Cycles", Ethics, Competition, Monopolies, Socialism, Taxation, Inflation, Government Policies and their effects.
No politics but the mention of lots of independent ideas are mandatory. The present write-up should be completely overhauled. Reference to the other articles on this subject would do much to save space here and make the subject more easy to understand and to find. (In other words, before re-writing a lot of planning is needed so as to cover the whole subject in a number of articles, some of which already exist.) The single main reference book most quoted at the end of the present artical implies that the article is written by somebody with a bias toward it! Surely we can do better than that! Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:58, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Two notes refererring to Dimand, but no further data over this book in the references. 198.184.231.254 ( talk) 13:49, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I've started a centralised discussion here regarding File:Employment growth by top tax rate.jpg, which is used in this article. Gabbe ( talk) 09:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.149.1 ( talk) 13:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
To start with showing a macroeconomics flow-diagram is a good idea, however the present diagram is inadequate because it does not include sufficient sectors nor their correct connections. At least 6 sectors should be shown on the diagram which are Landlords, Capitalists, Government, Producers, Householders and Banks (Financial Institutions). There are 19 relationships between them as shown previously. The present model which is from an older era also confuses the functions and natures of the various elements. The model which I previously posted does not have these faults and the previous discussion that was provided to justify its use has been eliminated! Also I am not a Marxist and the comment that this model was so is completely unjustified. So I would be grateful if the person whom changed my postings and data would reverse what he/she has done.
I realise that Macroeconomics is a difficult topic and I have not tried to make a nusence of myself over what I regard as some unthinking comments and changes. There is no guarentee that the textbooks are correct and it certainly is time for a change from the old dogged style of presentation which is not useful nor able to satisfactorily explain many recent macroeconomic phenomena. Macrocompassion ( talk) 15:42, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
The main objection to the existing diagram is that in common with the loss of the landlord's entity wikipedia has follow suit. This occurred about 1900 when John Bates Clark removed it from what Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Henry George and Karl Marx all recognized as being part of the basic structure. This change was politically inspired by landed monopolists and was utterly wrong because landlords continue to exist and to speculate in land values. So what is shown here is incorrect and it will lead to worse trouble during analysis. Macrocompassion ( talk) 14:52, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Dr. Dai has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:
1) "The IS–LM model represents the equilibrium in interest rates and output given by the equilibrium in the goods and money markets"
to be replaced by "The IS–LM model represents all the combinations of interest rates and output that ensure the equilibrium in the goods and money markets"
2) "Banks continuously shift the money supply ..." to be changed to "Central banks continuously shift the money supply... "
3) "Some banks allow the interest rate to fluctuate " to be changed to "Some of them allow the interest rate to fluctuate "
4) "implement quantitative easing by buying other assets such as corporate bonds," to be changed as "can implement quantitative easing by buying not only government bonds, but also other assets such as corporate bonds,"
5) "The rigidity of new Keynesian theory" to be replaced by
"The nominal rigidity of new Keynesian theory"
We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.
Dr. Dai has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:
ExpertIdeasBot ( talk) 18:29, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
What's the point of citing a criticism of macroeconomics in the lead? Right in the beginning it reads,
"evidence regarding the consequences of different macroeconomic policies is still highly imperfect and open to serious criticism."
You know that there are few areas of research that are not open to 'serious criticism'? The whole point of scholarship is that ideas are open to criticism, and knowledge improves by a process of critical analysis. History, sociology, even the natural sciences function this way.
Actually this line is very much in the tradition of certain Wikipedia editors going out of their way to single out the discipline of economics as an illegitimate or questionable field of inquiry. There's no problem on here citing other controversial areas of research as fact, but there is certainly a crusade against economics. If it were just an article or two it wouldn't be worth addressing, but this is a reoccurring theme in the economics space.
If you really can't resist criticizing macroeconomics, and you have a sufficient number of reliable sources critiquing it in this way (not just one or two), why not just add a criticism section? The lead is supposed to summarize the main body of the article, and currently there is no section that critiques macroeconomics in this article. Jonathan f1 ( talk) 01:27, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Four-rate formula and Exchange-rate Formula?
Four-rate formula explains the mathematical relation of change rate in price, wage, interest rate and GDP (or GNP).
Exchange rate reqlll8888888888formula help to calculate exchange rate between different money with different productivity.
This book introduces a new theory of price system and a general theory of interest rate.
Please read a new mook:
THING AND ITS LAW, Chapter 3: Productive force ( the theory of price system) ISBN 1-58939-525-5. Published 2003 by Virtualbookworm.com Publishing Inc.
xiaozhong zhai
People who edit this page should know something about economics. Do you think that Lucas would have received the nobel prize for simply a suggesting?
Furthermore, New Keysian economics does not provide strong micro foundations to Keysian economics.
Also, these so called schools of economic thought have no bearing on relevant macroeconomics and are very outdated and not used by anyone who knows economics anymore.
I know nothing about economics, but it's not clear to me that link to short-run links to the correct article. It doesn't seem related.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Mark:
The changes you are reverting to Macroeconomics page are NOT a neutral point of view. The are clearly written by someone who (1) favors Keynsian economics and (2) does not understand economics. Much of what is written is irrevant to current Macroeconomic thought and represents a lay-persons thoughts and NOT the thoughts of the economics profession and some of the statements are just wrong!
Mark:
So it goes then with uneducated people watching over this project.
I think a paragraph about Hayek could be added to this article. He has been somehow erased by Keynes' fame, but I think he deserves to be mentioned here, and maybe, if someone has substantial argument about that, the main points of quarrel with Keynes could be explained. After all, Hayek was admittedly appointed to the LSE as a reply to Keynes. Although he gave up his theory of business cycles, it could be mentioned anyway.
Peutch 20:56, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I took out the following as it is totally wrong:
"* Rational Expectations represents a conservative school of macro-economics lead by Lucas, Prescott and Barro. It concentrates on the behavior at infinity of rational economic actors and the removal of barriers to the selection of rational strategies. It utilizes game theory among perfectly rational players to determine what the best strategy would be in the absence of other effects, and then in a normative fashion argues for the removal of "economic friction"."
First RE is NOT a "school" rather it is a hypothesis or an assumption. The behavior is NOT "at infinity" (whatever that means), it does not utilize game theory (???), there's no strategies just forecasts and the last part of the sentence makes absolutely no sense what so ever. RE should probably be mentioned somewhere in this article but correctly and in a relevant portion.
radek
06:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Bravo, Prescott ripped me a few months ago when I brought up one of Barro's paper... amusing how history may view things. That said he'd love the "conservative school" title although it is hardly NPOV-- how exactly is theory political?
I noticed that this page has extremely bad grammar. It reads more like a power-point slide than an encyclopedic entry. I would be glad to improve upon the grammar if I understood the subject better. Could someone who knows something about economics clean up the non-sentences and such. Vitamin D 00:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Were missing the extreme left of macroeconomic thought, central planning, esp. in the template. Ksenon 09:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I think a note should be added somewhere about Macroeconomics being an Advanced Placement course common in many schools throughout the world. The same goes for Microeconomics. I'm not exactly sure where to place this information, so if possible could someone else add it in. -- Zeerus ( E T C) 00:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
This page has little to do with marco-economics; it fails to acknowledge that marco-economics has been arround a lot longer than the 1930s (see for instances Quesnay, who esstentially modeled the economy as a whole); Jan Tinbergen's model was not the first macro model, it was the first of a wide range of macro-econometric models; New-Keynsian economics is based on the notion that markets may be imperfect but that agents do poses rational expectations; Neo-Keynesians on the other hand feel that in the short run the economy may behave in a style close to that of Keynes but that in the long-run it behaves in a classical fashion; etctera. If I have some time in future I would be well willing to composes a new page on macro. If anybody else feels like doing so I would propose to raise the basic issue in macro based on a standard framework in which the difference in the schools may be seen. For instance along the lines of [1], though it is a bit technical it does cover the main attributes of macro.
please i want to know more about the basi c element of keynesians rebuttal of yhe monetarist.
The text of the second sentence confounds several economic concepts. First there is the suggestion that GDP is somehow affected by changes in national income. This is formally correct because GDP is one measure of national income. Furthermore what is meant by "the rate of growth"? If GDP grows over time, then it exhibits a "growth rate", but it is not affected by the growth rate. The level of GDP is a measure of national income over a fixed period of time, and this level can change as the determinants of GDP change.
While I am an economist, I am not a macro-economist, and thus I do not feel qualified to edit the article. However, I would suggest that if one would want to succinctly introduce the main topics of macro-economics, those topics would be:
The determinants of long-run growth of income (as measured by GDP, GNP, etc.), the level of unemployment, the level of prices (and inflation), and the relationships between these three "big" macro-economic variables (income, prices, and employment).
I think this would be a good (but not easy!) project for a grad student with access to their core course notes, and modern macro texts at the undergrad, masters, and doctoral level.
Joel Kincaid 17:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Any of these exist? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.245.250.181 ( talk) 06:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
FSN often covers it
Tehd
01:07, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I added proper references for the Blaug and Frisch references.
Can someone knowledgable in the subject place a reference in the text for the Snowdon-Vane book ?
Cmskog 16:17, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Would the floating of a country's currency be considered a macroeconomic reform or a microeconomic reform? Thanks. Timeshift 06:43, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Austrian economics rejects "macroeconomics", hence it's not a form of macroeconomics. Macroeconomics deals with the behavior of economic sectors and aggregate forces. Their methodological individualism explicitly rejects the macroeconomic\microeconomic distinction, the mainstream notion that firms and individuals act in ways that are quite different from the way that economic sectors act. 69.138.16.202 ( talk) 11:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Suppose that government spending was increased by 10 units and that this increase was financed by a 10 unit increase in taxes. Would equilibrium income change or remain the same as result of these two policy action? If Equilibrium incime changed, in which direction would it move, and by how much? please explain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.185.68.121 ( talk) 04:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment -- the is ridiculous, intellectual error created by a simple semantic confusion. Boom and bust phenomena take place and must be explained. This is "macroeconomics" and Friedrich Hayek spent a good part of his career working in this field. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg Ransom ( talk • contribs) 04:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The history contained in this entry is massively false.
Example 1: There was all sorts of macroeconomic empirical work pre-1936. There were business cycle research institutes in many of the major countries of the world in the 1920s. Many of these still exist today. Mitchell's work was widely known far before 1936.
Example 2: There were all sorts of people working on trade cycle and monetary problems in the 100 years prior to 1936, folks in Germany, England, Sweden, and America. And its a fraud to represent these people as some sort of uniform "classical economics".
Example 3: Much or most of what people take to be "Keynesian Economics" existed in the work of other economists prior to Keynes' 1936 work (see Laidler, Fabricating the Keynesian Revolution", and the main pillar of 1930s-1970 "Keynesian Economics" wasn't Keynes, it was Hicks and Meade, etc.
Can't we fix this massive intellectual embarrassment? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg Ransom ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Uh, while there was a substantial literature that started in the 90's that focused on long term growth and innovation, I'm not sure that calling it an "alternative school of macroeconomics" is accurate - it was just one strand of Macro lit. radek ( talk) 19:09, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
The list of "three approaches" is completely nonstandard (and unsupported by citations). Rinconsoleao ( talk) 11:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
investigate the requirement at the different stages of growth of an organization? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.0.7.1 ( talk) 12:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
investigate the requirement at the different stages of growth of an organization? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.0.7.3 ( talk) 12:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
This image may be better than the current one. I translated it from the French and Spanish versions. Thoughts? -- Shinkansen Fan ( talk) 20:09, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
am a young economist and i wish to ask certain questions on national income yes you can — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.186.12.249 ( talk) 14:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
In reply to this pertainent question I had written an explanationn which is now included in the discussion further below (having been rejected from the article itself, shame!). The short answer is: a) to enable us to understand of what our social system consists b) to describe how our system works and c) to allow us to forecast how it will behave in the future. I might add that none of these aims are properly satisfied by present macroeconomic theory and analysis, although some useful pointers are available for governmental policy decisions. Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:43, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
The diagram that was at the beginning of this article (and shown above) is unsatisfctory and it has a number of faults.
1. Confusion between what is flowing and the entities or agents between which the flow exits or enters.
2. Insufficient agents. For a good representation of a social system of a country (not including The Rest of The World) a minimum of 6 are necessary and these need a minimum of 19 connecting double flows.
3. The place where the transactions take place is irrevalent and should be omitted.
4. Flow quantities have two names to define the kind of goods, services, valuable documents flowing in one direction ad to specify the money flowing in the reciprocal direction.
5. Thus each flow is a mutual flow having two opposing components.
A diagram which satisfies these requirements does more than indicate the circulation of money and goods etc. It also shows the model that is being used to represent the system. Such a diagram has now been included. It is a more suitable diagram, which does not have these faults and which can be used in general macroeconomics work and study, without having the implications of the present limited diagram. It is now available in wikicommons, Social Science, title: Diagram For A Functional Macroeconomics System (closed economy). file image: DiagFuncMacroSyst[1].pdf Macrocompassion ( talk) 08:22, 17 August 2011 (UTC) Macrocompassion ( talk) 14:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC) 85.65.139.173 ( talk) 15:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Although the following (and corrected) text was rejected by an editor, who claimed it is more like an essay, it is my claim that something like this is a necessary way of starting this important subject. The past article on macroeconomics is inadequate in a number of ways and it surely deserves better introductory and explanatory words. I therefore wish to present the same material here and for this editor to re-consider how best it might be included, instead of rejecting it out of hand, in a manner that is not in the Wikipedia spirit! Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Whilst there is a degree of uncertancy about macroeconomics, it is regarded as a science and as a result it has both theoretical and practical sides that are related. In discussing the subject is important to cover both of these aspects of the knowledge that comprises this inexact science.
Practical macroeconomics phenomena can be measured and related to the theoretical side, but in general the theories so far submitted are not sufficiently close to the actual society-at-large behavour as to properly explain how it works and to be able to forecast what will happen in future times. Experience is regarded as a good means of estimating what will happen too. For this reason a branch of economics called econometrics has been developed, which is based solely on the past performance of the social system. This performance is expressed mathematically in terms of statistical data and various coefficients for use in suitable time-dependent equations, for determining the behavour of various economics functions and variables. It has failed however, to provide a satisfactory means of telling when a sudden change is due and in general it becomes progressively less accurate in forecasting, as increasing future time intervals are taken.
In considering the theoretical aspects of macroeconomics a number of schools of thought have emerged, none of them being sufficiently complete or precise as to to be able to claim that their version of the science is completely correct. However, progress has been made and it can be said that some of the government policy decision-making as based on the theory has been useful, in that it has helped to both stabilize and advance the progress of the social system. Many alternate theories have been tried, but not all of them have worked properly and some have been adverse to progress. So that for all the profoundity, vitality and need to do the right thing for society-at-large, in fact it is the somewhat more selfish political considerations rather than the ideal theoretical ones that have dominated governmental policy-making.
In considering theoretical macroeconomics the first stage is one of defning terms and trying to set up a clear understanding of what is involved. This is difficult in that many theoretical studies seem to begin without a full statement of the assumptions, axioms and meanings of the terms being used. Thus the resulting (limited) theories, which in fact cover only some of the aspects of the social system-at-large, are not able to be properly joined together, nor do they find application to the whole of the community. Even so, the next stage in the process of developing a theory must then be to establish a suitable model that represents all or part of the social system. It is generally but not always conceded that the whole system is so big and complicated that it is impractical to represent it all, and consequently a smaller partial model is constructed with the unlikely assumption of there being no outside effects occurring during the operation of this model and within the limits of what it represents. Probably because of this, there has been so little agreement about how in theory the system actually works!
The early theories were directed at the aspects of production and consumption of goods so only the householders and producers were included. This is strange because the three factors of production, land, labor and durable capital goods, (and their returns ground-rent, wages and dividends/yield/interest) had already been defined by Adam Smith in 1765. Later theories concerned the effect of trade abroard and the relative effects of prices on the quantities of goods needed for both home and foreign businesses. A theory of money and its circulation was also developed but as can be seen there ideas are difficult as separated theories to become one seamless whole. Also in this discussion it is easy to confuse some of the microeconomics theories, such as those of supply and demand and the associated equilibrium assumptions and anaylses, with the macroeconomics ones which were fewer and less exacting as explained above. 85.65.139.173 ( talk) 15:43, 4 October 2011 (UTC) Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Definitions of, Place Within Social Science, Understanding Nature of, Purpose of, Theories About, Collection of Various Data and Their Use, Statistical Analysis (Econometrics), Schools of Thought, Development of (History), Government Policies from, Political Aspects (of Policy-Making), Mathematical Analysis for, Usefullness of, Forcasts of, Relation with Microeconomics, Educational Aspects.
This article has been found to be edited by students of the Wikipedia:India Education Program project as part of their (still ongoing) course-work. Unfortunately, many of the edits in this program so far have been identified as plain copy-jobs from books and online resources and therefore had to be reverted. See the India Education Program talk page for details. In order to maintain the WP standards and policies, let's all have a careful eye on this and other related articles to ensure that no material violating copyrights remains in here. -- Matthiaspaul ( talk) 12:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
The Flow diagram of the Economy, does not reflect current economic thinking and is a idiological representation. (its quite marxist in its ontology) It should be substitute by something that corresponds with todays text books. It could be also regarded as original research as it has no reference and I am unaware who today would produce such a flow diagram. (see also comment below, that indicate that this model original research. Davoud Taghawi-Nejad
I'm going to revert this series of edits. On the whole, they don't help the article, although they're much closer than some other recent things. There are four broad problems with the edits:
Anyway, overall I just don't think the edits help the article. All the above points need to be dealt with, but the edits also just need improvement. CRETOG8( t/ c) 04:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
The current Wikipedia presentation of Macroeconomics is inadequate and makes no attempt to present the subject in a comprehensive way. Granted that macroeconomics is a much debated subject with a number of schools of thought, it is still necessary to provide some general facts about it before entering into the variations. So I suggest that the editors for this subject begin to re-organize it according to a more logical and systematic basis.
The first thing that is missing is a statement about what macroeconomics actually is. This should not just define it but also describe what it is and what it does. Which parts of human society are involved and under which kind of general heading does it fall? Then we need to supply some general features about the subject which are distinct from microeconomics and which will not cause a student to get confused between the two. An illustration of the flow of money and materials within the whole social system would be useful at the start and help to focus the reader on the various aspects of the subject. The present diagram is unsatisfactory in this respect. It is both confusing and incomplete (see my other Talk).
The various division of the subject also need to be listed so that at least the following are mentioned: General Macroeconomics, Econometrics, Theoretical Macroeconomics, History of Macroeconomics, Moneist Theory, Keynesian Theories and subsequent Methods of Mnalysis, various other Schools of Thought in Macroeconomics, Mathematical and other Modeling in Macroeconomics to include the early Phillips Water Model and to continue with later models. These should cover various developments for both Short-Term Stability with Equilibrium and Long-term Dynamics including "Business Cycles", Ethics, Competition, Monopolies, Socialism, Taxation, Inflation, Government Policies and their effects.
No politics but the mention of lots of independent ideas are mandatory. The present write-up should be completely overhauled. Reference to the other articles on this subject would do much to save space here and make the subject more easy to understand and to find. (In other words, before re-writing a lot of planning is needed so as to cover the whole subject in a number of articles, some of which already exist.) The single main reference book most quoted at the end of the present artical implies that the article is written by somebody with a bias toward it! Surely we can do better than that! Macrocompassion ( talk) 13:58, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Two notes refererring to Dimand, but no further data over this book in the references. 198.184.231.254 ( talk) 13:49, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I've started a centralised discussion here regarding File:Employment growth by top tax rate.jpg, which is used in this article. Gabbe ( talk) 09:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.149.1 ( talk) 13:56, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
To start with showing a macroeconomics flow-diagram is a good idea, however the present diagram is inadequate because it does not include sufficient sectors nor their correct connections. At least 6 sectors should be shown on the diagram which are Landlords, Capitalists, Government, Producers, Householders and Banks (Financial Institutions). There are 19 relationships between them as shown previously. The present model which is from an older era also confuses the functions and natures of the various elements. The model which I previously posted does not have these faults and the previous discussion that was provided to justify its use has been eliminated! Also I am not a Marxist and the comment that this model was so is completely unjustified. So I would be grateful if the person whom changed my postings and data would reverse what he/she has done.
I realise that Macroeconomics is a difficult topic and I have not tried to make a nusence of myself over what I regard as some unthinking comments and changes. There is no guarentee that the textbooks are correct and it certainly is time for a change from the old dogged style of presentation which is not useful nor able to satisfactorily explain many recent macroeconomic phenomena. Macrocompassion ( talk) 15:42, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
The main objection to the existing diagram is that in common with the loss of the landlord's entity wikipedia has follow suit. This occurred about 1900 when John Bates Clark removed it from what Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Henry George and Karl Marx all recognized as being part of the basic structure. This change was politically inspired by landed monopolists and was utterly wrong because landlords continue to exist and to speculate in land values. So what is shown here is incorrect and it will lead to worse trouble during analysis. Macrocompassion ( talk) 14:52, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
Dr. Dai has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:
1) "The IS–LM model represents the equilibrium in interest rates and output given by the equilibrium in the goods and money markets"
to be replaced by "The IS–LM model represents all the combinations of interest rates and output that ensure the equilibrium in the goods and money markets"
2) "Banks continuously shift the money supply ..." to be changed to "Central banks continuously shift the money supply... "
3) "Some banks allow the interest rate to fluctuate " to be changed to "Some of them allow the interest rate to fluctuate "
4) "implement quantitative easing by buying other assets such as corporate bonds," to be changed as "can implement quantitative easing by buying not only government bonds, but also other assets such as corporate bonds,"
5) "The rigidity of new Keynesian theory" to be replaced by
"The nominal rigidity of new Keynesian theory"
We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.
Dr. Dai has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:
ExpertIdeasBot ( talk) 18:29, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
What's the point of citing a criticism of macroeconomics in the lead? Right in the beginning it reads,
"evidence regarding the consequences of different macroeconomic policies is still highly imperfect and open to serious criticism."
You know that there are few areas of research that are not open to 'serious criticism'? The whole point of scholarship is that ideas are open to criticism, and knowledge improves by a process of critical analysis. History, sociology, even the natural sciences function this way.
Actually this line is very much in the tradition of certain Wikipedia editors going out of their way to single out the discipline of economics as an illegitimate or questionable field of inquiry. There's no problem on here citing other controversial areas of research as fact, but there is certainly a crusade against economics. If it were just an article or two it wouldn't be worth addressing, but this is a reoccurring theme in the economics space.
If you really can't resist criticizing macroeconomics, and you have a sufficient number of reliable sources critiquing it in this way (not just one or two), why not just add a criticism section? The lead is supposed to summarize the main body of the article, and currently there is no section that critiques macroeconomics in this article. Jonathan f1 ( talk) 01:27, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Four-rate formula and Exchange-rate Formula?
Four-rate formula explains the mathematical relation of change rate in price, wage, interest rate and GDP (or GNP).
Exchange rate reqlll8888888888formula help to calculate exchange rate between different money with different productivity.
This book introduces a new theory of price system and a general theory of interest rate.
Please read a new mook:
THING AND ITS LAW, Chapter 3: Productive force ( the theory of price system) ISBN 1-58939-525-5. Published 2003 by Virtualbookworm.com Publishing Inc.
xiaozhong zhai
People who edit this page should know something about economics. Do you think that Lucas would have received the nobel prize for simply a suggesting?
Furthermore, New Keysian economics does not provide strong micro foundations to Keysian economics.
Also, these so called schools of economic thought have no bearing on relevant macroeconomics and are very outdated and not used by anyone who knows economics anymore.
I know nothing about economics, but it's not clear to me that link to short-run links to the correct article. It doesn't seem related.