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I am going to quote a story taken from the Lineage (Buddhism) site; I never heard about it before so I don't know whether it claims some historical truth or not. Does anybody know? Since it is to be found beneath the headline "Teaching story" it seems to be constructed for mind training.
"Though it cannot be conclusively ascertained as to whether or not Kamalashila was vain, it is pointed that directly after this debate with Mo Ho Yen, as he was making his way down from the Himalaya to the Indian lowlands, that he was induced to resort to phowa on compassionate grounds, transferring his mindstream into a truly dead corpse polluted with contagion. Thereby in compassion, animating the corpse, he moved it to a safe location - as nobody wished to move the dangerous corpse in fear of disease. As the mindstream of Kamalashila was otherwise engaged, a Mahasidda by the name of Padampa Sangye came across the vacant kuten or "physical basis" of Kamalashila. Padampa Sangye, was not karmically blessed with an aesthetic corporeal form, and upon finding the very handsome and healthy empty body of Kamalashila, which he perceived as a newly dead fresh corpse, transferred his mindstream into Kamalashila's body. Padampa Sangye's mindstream in Kamalashila's body continued the ascent to the Himalaya and thereby transmitted the Chöd. The mindstream of Kamalashila upon endeavouring to return to his kuten was unable to do so and resorted by necessity to the vacant body of Padampa Sangye.[4] The mindstream of Padampa Sangye continued in this body, and it is in this body that the transmission of Chod was made to Machig Labdrön.[5]
Who is Kamalashila?
Unrelated to Machig Labdröns lifestory, you want to say?
what about these links? [1], [2]: related or not?
what about this one?
I have taken the link from this site - http://lhamo.tripod.com/9deity.htm#Machig-, and it says "Thangka #349 on the Art of Tibet site depicts Machig Labdrön's life story, and thangka #223 shows her at the centre of a Nyingma chöd lineage tree." The thangka above is thangka #223 that here is she is shown at the centre of a Nyingma chöd lineage tree.
This thangka is thangka #349.
Has she been given the title yogi and not yogini because of the mindstream of Mönlam Drub? Did she not have a mindstream of "her own"?
demons
In the article there is the following quotation: ""You may think that Gods are the one's who give you benefits, and Demons cause damage; but it may be the other way round. Those who cause pain teach you to be patient, and those who give you presents may keep you from practising the Dharma. So it depends on their effect on you if they are Gods or Demons", she said." I do not remember the source.
Additionally it is said in the article: "Although they are referred to as demons, it is clear from Machg Labdron's writings that the entities being dealt with in Chod practices are formulations of the human mind, rather than supernatural beings."
there is a contradiciton, is there not?
please see page 72, it is about Machig Labdrön and her son Gyalwa Döndrup.
One of her sons is to be found in TBRC.
-- 88.75.195.38 ( talk) 15:12, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
tbrc doesn't mention a Seat for Machig Labdrön. The wiki article says that Zangri Khangmar has been her home. so: what does Seat mean in Tibetan Buddhist terminology?
Here Zangri Khangmar is called her Seat. " While Lama Tsultrim was on pilgrimage in central Tibet at Zangri Khangmar, the seat of Machig Labdrön where she lived from age 37-99, the resident Lama recognized Lama Tsultrim as an emanation of Machig Labdrön. The Lama offered her the throne, a hat designed by Machig, a self-arisen golden crystal phurba and the only remaining tsatsa (clay mold ) made from the ashes of Machig's body."
This woman does not have a Seat neither, [9]. Maybe socalled wandering yoginis don't have seats, by nature so to speak. Yogis also don't have seats. ?
I was wrong, she has (had) a Seat, [10]. The Seat was a nunnery [11], or two?
Most probably Seat and estate have the same meaning, namely sort of financial labrang. The expression own estate is used referring to Drepung monastery and Penchen Sönam Drakpa (1478-1554 CE), when he installed the Zimkhang Gongma as his "own estate". I guess that kind of Seats are given to the Tulku incarnations after the original Seatholder passed away.
how does all this go together?
Here in this glossary [13] it is said: "Jomo Menmo: The incarnation of Ma-gÇig Labdrön, and emanation of Yeshé Tsogyel who was the consort of Guru Chöwang."
I am not sure whether these are words only or whether there are sort of real meanings, effects, so to speak.
Another son is mentioned here [14], "Machik Lhadron's second son Toling Sandrup founded the "Tradition of Black Hat of Snowy Mountain." This tradition had many nuns of Joyul sect. Toling had "twenty-one male and female chief disciples" and "eighteen female disciples of achievements". Most of them were nuns." see " 3. Nuns of Joyul sect and their unique way of self-cultivation".
"Besides, Macik Labdron's daughter Lha-lcam and granddaughter gang-pa mug-yan were well-known nuns of the Joyul sect. Lha-lcam founded a tradition based on quiet practice, violent practice and quiet-violent practice. This tradition had three branches, of which the most influential was the "rgyal-thang Joyul tradition," founded by rgyal-thang-pa bsam-gtan vod-zer.
Macik Labdron's granddaughter Gangpa Moyen, daughter of her second son Toling Sandrup, learned the teachings of Joyul sect from her father, She taught disciples and propagated the Joyul sect."
I doubt which of the informations should be inserted into the article.
By the way, the above source mentioned her son Tonyon Samdru (thod-smyon bsam-grub) as "second son", too ( Her second son Tonyon Samdru(thod-smyon bsam-grub)became her main successor and propagator of Macik Labdron's teachings. He became a monk at the age of 15 under the tutorship of Pha Dampa Sangye. Pha Dampa Sangye's original name was Dampa Sangye. Tonyon Samdru(thod-smyon bsam-grub) treated him as stepfather and called him Pha Dampa Sangye, with "Pha" meaning "father." Since then he was named Pha Dampa Sangye.)
Simhamukha and Machig Labdrön: some relationship?
Tsultrim Allione provides some more information online What is a Demon? Simhamukha is said to be (have been?) a dakini. Some people -maybe even many- think dakinis to be demons.
Allione in her book Tibets Weise Frauen writes: Da Dämonen (eine Projektion des Ego) nur demjenigen schaden können, der etwas zu verteidigen hat, können sie niemanden belästigen, der kein Hoheitsgebiet (das heißt Ego) hat, das er beschützen müsste. Dies ist die philosophische Basis der Chöd-Lehren.“ Allione in Anmerkung 63 der Lebensgeschichte von Machig Lapdrön, S. 328 des Buches Tibets weise Frauen
more about Machig Labdrön
I shifted the original reference to the Troma Nagmo Chod here, with the associated talk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AD64 ( talk • contribs) 06:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Mother Tröma Nagmo (The Extremely Wrathful Black Mother - Dakini Troma Nagmo (the black form of Vajrayogini), ) , Wisdom mother, Great Mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.199.209 ( talk) 06:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The preview for the Machig Labdron entry (with the small photo and a one line description) reads "Tibetan Busshist Teacher." I don't know where this content is stored, or even what this preview item is properly called, yet I'd like to correct the spelling on this. Can anyone help with this or point me to the place where I can make the change myself? Thanks so much. AD64 ( talk) 04:59, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
In the first sentence of this article, the portion of the translation of Machig Labdron's name to "One Mother" links to the Tibetan Fraternal Polyandry article. Now, this seems like a big jump to to link her name to this form of kinship and social structure. It's not impossible though. It just the first time I've heard of this and I've studied a lot of literature on Chod and Machig Labdron, and know something of Himalaya fraternal polyandry. I can't yet confirm if fraternal polyandry was historically practiced in U-Tsang or not. In addition, as I try to puzzle this out, the first reference, which is after the date of birth, has no page numbers, and I can't tell if it is meant to refer to the whole preceding sentence, or just the date of birth. Does anyone have any insight on this, or do you happen to be the editor who inserted this reference (Norbu, Namkhai (1986). The Crystal and the Way of Light. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul. ISBN 0-14-019084-8)? If so, can you provide a page number so I can do some fact checking? Thank you. Best, AD64 ( talk) 06:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
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I am going to quote a story taken from the Lineage (Buddhism) site; I never heard about it before so I don't know whether it claims some historical truth or not. Does anybody know? Since it is to be found beneath the headline "Teaching story" it seems to be constructed for mind training.
"Though it cannot be conclusively ascertained as to whether or not Kamalashila was vain, it is pointed that directly after this debate with Mo Ho Yen, as he was making his way down from the Himalaya to the Indian lowlands, that he was induced to resort to phowa on compassionate grounds, transferring his mindstream into a truly dead corpse polluted with contagion. Thereby in compassion, animating the corpse, he moved it to a safe location - as nobody wished to move the dangerous corpse in fear of disease. As the mindstream of Kamalashila was otherwise engaged, a Mahasidda by the name of Padampa Sangye came across the vacant kuten or "physical basis" of Kamalashila. Padampa Sangye, was not karmically blessed with an aesthetic corporeal form, and upon finding the very handsome and healthy empty body of Kamalashila, which he perceived as a newly dead fresh corpse, transferred his mindstream into Kamalashila's body. Padampa Sangye's mindstream in Kamalashila's body continued the ascent to the Himalaya and thereby transmitted the Chöd. The mindstream of Kamalashila upon endeavouring to return to his kuten was unable to do so and resorted by necessity to the vacant body of Padampa Sangye.[4] The mindstream of Padampa Sangye continued in this body, and it is in this body that the transmission of Chod was made to Machig Labdrön.[5]
Who is Kamalashila?
Unrelated to Machig Labdröns lifestory, you want to say?
what about these links? [1], [2]: related or not?
what about this one?
I have taken the link from this site - http://lhamo.tripod.com/9deity.htm#Machig-, and it says "Thangka #349 on the Art of Tibet site depicts Machig Labdrön's life story, and thangka #223 shows her at the centre of a Nyingma chöd lineage tree." The thangka above is thangka #223 that here is she is shown at the centre of a Nyingma chöd lineage tree.
This thangka is thangka #349.
Has she been given the title yogi and not yogini because of the mindstream of Mönlam Drub? Did she not have a mindstream of "her own"?
demons
In the article there is the following quotation: ""You may think that Gods are the one's who give you benefits, and Demons cause damage; but it may be the other way round. Those who cause pain teach you to be patient, and those who give you presents may keep you from practising the Dharma. So it depends on their effect on you if they are Gods or Demons", she said." I do not remember the source.
Additionally it is said in the article: "Although they are referred to as demons, it is clear from Machg Labdron's writings that the entities being dealt with in Chod practices are formulations of the human mind, rather than supernatural beings."
there is a contradiciton, is there not?
please see page 72, it is about Machig Labdrön and her son Gyalwa Döndrup.
One of her sons is to be found in TBRC.
-- 88.75.195.38 ( talk) 15:12, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
tbrc doesn't mention a Seat for Machig Labdrön. The wiki article says that Zangri Khangmar has been her home. so: what does Seat mean in Tibetan Buddhist terminology?
Here Zangri Khangmar is called her Seat. " While Lama Tsultrim was on pilgrimage in central Tibet at Zangri Khangmar, the seat of Machig Labdrön where she lived from age 37-99, the resident Lama recognized Lama Tsultrim as an emanation of Machig Labdrön. The Lama offered her the throne, a hat designed by Machig, a self-arisen golden crystal phurba and the only remaining tsatsa (clay mold ) made from the ashes of Machig's body."
This woman does not have a Seat neither, [9]. Maybe socalled wandering yoginis don't have seats, by nature so to speak. Yogis also don't have seats. ?
I was wrong, she has (had) a Seat, [10]. The Seat was a nunnery [11], or two?
Most probably Seat and estate have the same meaning, namely sort of financial labrang. The expression own estate is used referring to Drepung monastery and Penchen Sönam Drakpa (1478-1554 CE), when he installed the Zimkhang Gongma as his "own estate". I guess that kind of Seats are given to the Tulku incarnations after the original Seatholder passed away.
how does all this go together?
Here in this glossary [13] it is said: "Jomo Menmo: The incarnation of Ma-gÇig Labdrön, and emanation of Yeshé Tsogyel who was the consort of Guru Chöwang."
I am not sure whether these are words only or whether there are sort of real meanings, effects, so to speak.
Another son is mentioned here [14], "Machik Lhadron's second son Toling Sandrup founded the "Tradition of Black Hat of Snowy Mountain." This tradition had many nuns of Joyul sect. Toling had "twenty-one male and female chief disciples" and "eighteen female disciples of achievements". Most of them were nuns." see " 3. Nuns of Joyul sect and their unique way of self-cultivation".
"Besides, Macik Labdron's daughter Lha-lcam and granddaughter gang-pa mug-yan were well-known nuns of the Joyul sect. Lha-lcam founded a tradition based on quiet practice, violent practice and quiet-violent practice. This tradition had three branches, of which the most influential was the "rgyal-thang Joyul tradition," founded by rgyal-thang-pa bsam-gtan vod-zer.
Macik Labdron's granddaughter Gangpa Moyen, daughter of her second son Toling Sandrup, learned the teachings of Joyul sect from her father, She taught disciples and propagated the Joyul sect."
I doubt which of the informations should be inserted into the article.
By the way, the above source mentioned her son Tonyon Samdru (thod-smyon bsam-grub) as "second son", too ( Her second son Tonyon Samdru(thod-smyon bsam-grub)became her main successor and propagator of Macik Labdron's teachings. He became a monk at the age of 15 under the tutorship of Pha Dampa Sangye. Pha Dampa Sangye's original name was Dampa Sangye. Tonyon Samdru(thod-smyon bsam-grub) treated him as stepfather and called him Pha Dampa Sangye, with "Pha" meaning "father." Since then he was named Pha Dampa Sangye.)
Simhamukha and Machig Labdrön: some relationship?
Tsultrim Allione provides some more information online What is a Demon? Simhamukha is said to be (have been?) a dakini. Some people -maybe even many- think dakinis to be demons.
Allione in her book Tibets Weise Frauen writes: Da Dämonen (eine Projektion des Ego) nur demjenigen schaden können, der etwas zu verteidigen hat, können sie niemanden belästigen, der kein Hoheitsgebiet (das heißt Ego) hat, das er beschützen müsste. Dies ist die philosophische Basis der Chöd-Lehren.“ Allione in Anmerkung 63 der Lebensgeschichte von Machig Lapdrön, S. 328 des Buches Tibets weise Frauen
more about Machig Labdrön
I shifted the original reference to the Troma Nagmo Chod here, with the associated talk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AD64 ( talk • contribs) 06:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Mother Tröma Nagmo (The Extremely Wrathful Black Mother - Dakini Troma Nagmo (the black form of Vajrayogini), ) , Wisdom mother, Great Mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.199.209 ( talk) 06:48, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
The preview for the Machig Labdron entry (with the small photo and a one line description) reads "Tibetan Busshist Teacher." I don't know where this content is stored, or even what this preview item is properly called, yet I'd like to correct the spelling on this. Can anyone help with this or point me to the place where I can make the change myself? Thanks so much. AD64 ( talk) 04:59, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
In the first sentence of this article, the portion of the translation of Machig Labdron's name to "One Mother" links to the Tibetan Fraternal Polyandry article. Now, this seems like a big jump to to link her name to this form of kinship and social structure. It's not impossible though. It just the first time I've heard of this and I've studied a lot of literature on Chod and Machig Labdron, and know something of Himalaya fraternal polyandry. I can't yet confirm if fraternal polyandry was historically practiced in U-Tsang or not. In addition, as I try to puzzle this out, the first reference, which is after the date of birth, has no page numbers, and I can't tell if it is meant to refer to the whole preceding sentence, or just the date of birth. Does anyone have any insight on this, or do you happen to be the editor who inserted this reference (Norbu, Namkhai (1986). The Crystal and the Way of Light. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul. ISBN 0-14-019084-8)? If so, can you provide a page number so I can do some fact checking? Thank you. Best, AD64 ( talk) 06:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
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