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I've added ( [1]) the Star Wars example because its got to be one of the few examples where the movie director/writer has explicitly referred to as the MacGuffin, in this case on the DVD commentary soundtrack at about 15 minutes in (where the stormtroopers find droid bits on Tattooine). It's also interesting that it is of significance to the plot, so Lucas is using the phrase in a sense contra to that of the movie buffs. Who do you believe, eh? Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
R2D2 is a MacGuffin in the sense, that it carries the plans of the Death Star. It's initiating the action. /roger.duprat.copenhagen
I don't get this. Whatever you think of his movies, there's no question he's an important and knowledgable filmmaker. Unless any of us here are also filmmakers, then our opinions don't count for much. Of the three references to this article, one (the Indy IV one) says nothing either way. Of the other two, one's an amateur dictionary site, the other an amateur cinema site. The second site uses this article as a reference, so its use seems a completely circular argument to me.
Surely, if a filmmaker calls something in his movie a MacGuffin, then it's a MacGuffin. You might say that isn't what Hitchcock meant, but reading through the Hitchcock quote, I don't see that it rules out R2D2. In fact Hitchcock says "it could be anything - or nothing - at all". Hence, the term is inclusive, not exclusive.
I don't see any, NOT ONE, reference in this article from a respected filmmaker using the term MacGuffin in the proscriptive way advocated here. If amateur movie buffs want to use the word in a narrow sense, that's fine, but the article should respect the fact that people in the industry clearly do not.
Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 19:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems the major problem is a lack of sources. Is MacGuffin still used mostly the way Hitchcock intended it or has it changed? Lucas could simply be using the word incorrectly or he could using the word the way it is commonly used now. Rodger Ebert used the term in his review of transformers the Hitchcock way saying that the "allspark" is a MacGuff - it doesn't matter what it is. As he is a notable film critic that would lend weight to the way the article stands. 151.112.57.22 21:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that famous "Rosebud" from " Citizen Kane" movie can be considered as MacGuffin, isn't it? -- AndyTerry 19:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think its insignificant - its pretty-much the answer to the main question of the film ("what was Rosebud?") and is crucial to the viewer's understanding of Kane. It's not a "random memory", rather a significant one. One of the best definitions of "MacGuffin" (which we've used when discussing examples in this article -see talk page) is that it is interchangable - it could be absolutely anything for the purposes of the plot. Apart from that, we need to keep the "examples" section to a minimum. Earlier versions of this article were horrible lists of every passing editors favourite "MacGuffin" (many if not most of them original research and not proper MacGuffins at all) -- Zagrebo 13:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The sled could have been interchanged with Albus Dumbledore's woolen socks. The reporter would still go for the story. What Kane wanted was happiness, and for all his money and power, the closest he came to attaining happiness was sledding on Rosebud outside that Colorado shack. Perfect MacGuffin. MMetro ( talk) 21:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick note. Some editor made a comment and placed it between one of my comments and my signature. This later got placed in the archive. (I probably wouldn't have even noticed if the comment had sounded like something I'd say) I've edited the archive and properly attributed the comment. Please, folks, properly attribute your comments. -- superluser t c 20:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure this has come up before but I'm going to press it anyway. The letters of transit in Casablanca are nonsensical. The characters are using letters of transit signed by Charles de Gaulle to exit Vichy France. There is no way that Vichy would recognize these letters as being official documents. Nor does it make any sense why Nazis would be in possession of these documents. Roger Eberts makes this same point on the DVD commentary track. So I guess my question is- If the characters don't in fact need the letters to leave that why are they not a MacGuffin?
KHorberg 15:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
In defense of my edit to add Transformers to the list of film examples, I can think of no more authoritative source to state that a particular item is a MacGuffin than Roger Ebert. As someone else noted in the revert of my edit, Roger Ebert does not rely on Wikipedia to make this determination - he relies on his professional judgement and merely directs those who don't know what a MacGuffin is to this page. Great press for Wikipedia! I'll admit that I thought it would be clever for those so directed to find the Allspark in Transformers specifically listed as a Macguffin, but that does not detract from its timeliness and relevance as an example. -- Javance 02:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
The "Allspark" works as a MacGuffin precisely because it is so very silly. Something that in some vague way creates life? What? The Allspark exists in the film to motivate the characters to do things (i.e. create plot), but does not in itself have much depth of meaning or explanation. One of the central aspects of a MacGuffin is replaceability. In the crook plots, the necklace is easily replaced with a ring, a bracelet, a stash of gold coins, a set of valuable old stamps. In a spy thriller, the contents of the papers just have to be Important -- what they actually say (the code for launching nukes? the identity of Valerie Plame?) is unimportant. For it to be a MacGuffin, the thing in itself doesn't much matter, only that it be capable of motivating everyone in the movie. I would agree that Lucas kind of misused the term when he called R2-D2 a MacGuffin.
It's pretty simple actually. If the All-Spark is not a McGuffin, then neither are the letters of transit in Casablanca. They both are constantly sought throughout the entire movie, and though McGuffins, they play a pivotal role in the plot at the end of the movie. Whether it be killing Megatron or helping Ilsa and Victor escape to America, they are one and the same. If one is to be removed from the list, then so must the other, and I believe a similar argument could be made for most of the other McGuffins on the list, such as the statue in The Maltese Falcon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.40.44 ( talk) 20:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Does the pineapple in the first season episode The Pineapple Incident qualifies as a MacGuffin? It moves the story, it`s never revealed why, when or how it got there and it names the episode.-- Morpheos 14:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Disagree. It's "Rosebud" all over again, but you definitely need a secondary source to cite in this overcrowded and misunderstood topic. MMetro ( talk) 20:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I like it. Well done. It cites usage in the industry but then explains the differences in a *non judgemental* way. Good stuff. Trying to prevent explanations or uses we don't like is wrong, but letting the reader come to a conclusion based on varied expert opinion is precisely what this article should strive for. Neale Monks 17:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I realize that we're not intending to be exaustive by any means here, but we need to at least capture examples from a wider variety of genres. We should have examples from video games and drama, at the very least. I'm sure there are other genres as well that are significant. And if we're gonna have examples from cartoons, we should have more than one. There are too significant of differences between the different types for them to be encapsulated by any one example. Manga may be significant in Japan, but it's mostly niche in the U.S. and Europe, and there's plenty from the U.S. that isn't very popular in Japan, either. Maratanos 21:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
In the final book The End, towards the end of the book (Chapter 13, I think), a conversation about the Baudelaire orphan's fortune is mentioned, which gets the response from Sunny (who normally speaks in nonsensical words which have to be translated by her siblings) "MacGuffin". I think this is a good example of a MacGuffin, as the whole series of books centre around Count Olaf trying to get his hands on the fortune, but ultimately, the fortune is never retrieved. Would this be a good example to include in the literature example section? StephenBuxton 16:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
A more clear MacGuffin in the entire series (or at least from the 8th book) would be the suger bowl, you never see it, only here of its existance, you never learn what is in it and at the end of the series you have no clue about what has happend to it. It is not cofirmed that it is a MacGuffin I just wish to throw this in for consideration.-- Whap ( talk) 18:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I know this definition is purely OR, so I would not dream of putting it in the main article. The reason I am writing it here is that I want to check that I have got the understanding of a MacGuffin correct. A MacGuffin (or at least, my idea of one) is an object in a plot that does not do anything other than cause the plot to happen. If you could take a plot item, replace it by a box of chocolates, and the plot still develops in the same way as before, then it is a MacGuffin. Does that sound about right? StephenBuxton 13:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure yet whether I understood the concept. Does the ring in LOTR apply? I would think so, that it's a ring seems rather random (as long as you chose to ignore things like Lessing's "Nathan The Wise"), it could as well be 'The Sword Of A Thousand Truths'. If the ring is a McGuffin, it should be added to the example list. What's the difference between a McGuffin and a plot device in general? Doesn't it have to be an actual device or item? If so, 'rosebud' in 'Citizen Kane' wouldn't be a McGuffin, but simply a plot device, since it's not an actual object but an abstract idea throughout the film. Davey Jones' heart in 'Pirates of the Carrebean' would not be one, since it has a significance in itself, beeing the heart of one of the characters - while a ring is normally simply a piece of jewellery. My all time favourite Mcguffin would be the 'pieces of eight' in the 3rd Pirates movie. Ebn 17:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
It does not seem to me that the tape in The Life of David Gale is a MacGuffin, since it does tell us a few things about the plot, specifically in the ending. What do you guys think? Ty Weezy 14:03, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I totally agree. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
143.44.131.245 (
talk)
03:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Where does MI3's Rabbit's Foot fit in to this? JJ Abrams called it a MacGuffin in several interviews. It's an mysterious "thing" that all the characters seek. It's explained what it *could* be, but the audience or movie characters are never sure. Tom Cruise's character steals an object that may or may not be the Rabbits Foot.-- 24.249.108.133 ( talk) 23:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
MMetro ( talk) 18:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that an IP took my changes to the point where ILiketobeAnonymous reverted to the original POV'd statement. While I admire the citations for the original quotes, the original contributor seems to disagree with these quotes, as the resulting synthesis violates WP:NOR. Unless there is corroborating evidence for the synthesis (and I highly doubt anybody of serious worth questions Ebert's assessment of the All-dreck), the synthesis should be removed. However, the removal will seriously harm the subsection unless other better-documented problems can be found. I suggest keeping the quotes elsewhere while removing the section entirely, or replacing it with the 24 November 2007 Third Paragraph of description-- but that is also uncited. Any other ideas? MMetro ( talk) 10:29, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The creation of the problems section was Revision as of 19:20, 13 May 2007 by Neale Monks. I hardly think less than a year establishes it as old.Since then, it has added a second example of citation and disagreement. However, 3RR foreshadowed, I can see that removing the POV is futile, and I will seek the advice from admin and outside council. If they think it's okay, fine, ILtbA, but I feel that it is misusing the citation. MMetro ( talk) 08:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Is the briefcase of money a MacGuffin? I would be inclined to say yes, but I will leave it to someone else to add it to the list if they agree. I would almost say it is the definition of a MacGuffin, since the movie revolves around chasing the briefcase, but the movie is really about the characters and their personalities, and the money never really matters at all. -- 155.91.28.231 ( talk) 15:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be cited if there's consensus on it; managing the page is what the talk page is for. The briefcase is a MacGuffin -- it never becomes clear why it's so sought-after. That's to say, it's not really logical that it's just about the money. On the other hand, a bit of the money is used, so it's not the best example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.133.245 ( talk) 20:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, so the Cloverfield Monster is clearly the largest McGuffin in the history of cinema. It's merely a plot driver for a disaster movie, not the focus of a monster movie. Right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.15.34.234 ( talk) 13:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I figured I'd bring it here since there is no video game section yet.
The whole point of these two games is to find Macguffins. The player finds items which don't affect the game or plot in any way, but are permitted to advance to the next portion of the game when they have an arbetrary number of them. I'm not sure if it can be cited because it's such a fundamental mechanic in these games. Would there be a problem if this was added? Hewinsj ( talk) 14:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to see this article merged with Plot device. The two concepts are so similar as to be indistinguishable. In fact from the definitions in the articles I can't see a difference at all. Any objections? DJ Clayworth ( talk) 20:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
From just reading the article, it seems immediately apparent to me that the movie What's Up Doc with Barbra Streisand and Ryan O'Niel has four MacGuffins - the four identical traveling cases with four different contents (secret papers, coed's college stuff, rich lady's jewelry, and musicologist's tambula rocks.) While there are complexities in the plot caused by the contents being different, everybody is chasing after these four items, and no one ever really gets to use any of them. We do get some details from time to time about some of the contents, for instance in the criminal's hideout we see the much-vaunted rocks plainly for a few seconds, and one of them appears to be nothing more than a piece of concrete. It almost seems like the stories of the contents are another whole story of which we only get a glimpse now and then. I'll add this after 3 months if there's no objection. Friendly Person ( talk) 23:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
As seems normal on Wikipedia, the "Examples" section is growing and growing as everyone adds their own favourite examples of this frequently-used plot device. Since there seems to be no limit on how big it might grow I propose one of two solutions.
Any preferences? DJ Clayworth ( talk) 15:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Someone deleted the example I added last week, namely both the eponymous Car and the Continuum Transfunctioner from "Dude Where's my Car." The example was short, factual and well-cited and I'm actually pretty peeved that someone took it upon themselves to delete what I thought was a great and highly relevant example, especially when I question the validity of several of the pre-existing ones. If there's to be a cap on examples that's fine, and I don't want to get in an adding/deleting war with the editor in question, but is there anywhere I can appeal this deletion? USER: RitzWolf 13:35 29 September 2008
The MacGuffin by definition is the object that at least starts off the plot but is of little consequence to the action of the movie in and of itself. It is the characters desire to get the to object first that provides the motivation. Why they want to get it or what it is is secondary to the character's methods of getting to it.
Therefore, since the object in all four INDIANA JONES movies (the Lost Ark, the Stones, the Holy Grail, the Crystal skull) play a crucial role in the finale of each movie, they are not MacGuffins.
It is the passiveness or inconsequentiality of the central object that makes it a MacGuffin. If it somehow interacts with the characters or becomes more significantly important to the plot it ceases to be a MacGuffin.
The Lost Ark in RAIDERS could be interpreted as an actual character as opposed to just the central object.
Drjimmyandmrjim ( talk) 21:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Somehow, I thought Kiss Me Deadly would be the first and most obvious instance of the use of a MacGuffin in film. Certainly if later films like Pulp Fiction which seem to be explicitly referencing Kiss Me Deadly appear here, I would imagine to see it here too... or am I the only one who immediately thinks of that film when the word "MacGuffin" pops up? zadignose ( talk) 08:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I tried it add Y: The Last Man to the list of MacGuffins in comic books, but it kept showing up under the list of films. I'm sorry I'm not a terribly proficient wikipedia editor. Also, I can find a source for it, if that is absolutely required, but I think some of the editors on this article have goen a little citation crazy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.49.119.227 ( talk) 05:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know much of the Talk page here is taken up with people protesting that the bit of kit or gadgetry mentioned in their own particular favourite film shouldn't be considered a McGuffin (on the apparent assumption that 'McGuffin' is a derogatory term) - but I have to take issue with the statement that the chest in Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest is a McGuffin. The chest contains (or at times is merely thought to contain) the heart of Davy Jones, the chief villain of the second movie, and represents the means by which he can be controlled. It therefore represents a way out of trouble for Jack in the second film, and the reason Jones and the Flying Dutchman are operating under the command of the East India Company in the third. It also - without wanting to inflict too many spoilers - has a significant role to play in determining the fate of one of the main characters at the end of the third film.
More than all that, the function of the heart (and therefore the chest it's kept in) is explored and explained in detail during the two sequel movies, so we not only know it's important but we know why. Of course I accept that the actual explanation for how it does what it does is left to the imagination. A McGuffin, as I understand it, is something that we're told is important and we accept is important for the sake of the story without needing to know why it is. Therefore I suggest that the "Dead Man's Chest" isn't a McGuffin but a plot element. - 78.86.81.52 ( talk) 18:05, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
...for which I have no reference at all, sadly. The TV Set in Beavis and Butthead do America is a great example of a proper McGuffin: they start their trip searching for the TV set that's stolen at the beginning of the movie, then come up with the idea of gaining some cash to buy a new one, spend two hours of footage between spies, criminals and the FBI and - after being decorated by the President of the US (but, of course, given no money) - they finally find their old TV set in their neighborhood.
Don't know how it works, see if you can slop it in according to the guidelines, otherwise...
P.s.: My English sucks and it's late night here, I'm far too tired to check the above shebang for errors, sorry. Goodnight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.33.51 ( talk) 22:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, I guess so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.33.51 ( talk) 22:18, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Under the Examples section under films it has "The mysterious, dangerous contents in the trunk of the 1964 Chevrolet Malibu in Repo Man" listed as the MacGuffin in the film. I would argue that the Malibu itself is the MacGuffin, as most of the characters actually had no idea that the trunk had anything of interest in it at all. AltrEgo2001 ( talk) 17:30, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The Mel Brooks movie "High Anxiety", which parodies many Hitchcock films, makes a reference to MacGuffin.
When Richard H. Thorndyke (Mel Brooks) arrives in San Francisco Hyatt Regency hotel to attend the American Psychiatric Convention, he finds his room is on the 17th floor, despite having secured a reservation for a room on the 2nd floor. He's afraid of heights, and when he asks what happened to his original room, the desk clerk informs him that a Mr. MacGuffin called and requested the change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.201.231.221 ( talk) 09:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
The Princeton's wordnet defines the term "a plot element that catches the viewers' attention or drives the plot". A MacGuffin certainly isn't always "not explained", though it sometimes it clearly escapes any definition (such as the extreme case of the suitcase in Pulp Fiction (film)).
Moreover, comporting with that definition, countless examples exist (some in the article) of the specifics of a MacGuffin being explained in excruciating detail, such as the battle plans for the Death Star in Star Wars, for which we not only saw an extended explanatory film within the middle of the film, but those details were the center of the entire climactic ending 15 minutes or so of the movie. In fact, in that instance, the MacGuffin's details were actually explained in more specificity than the motivation of any character in the movie. The Ark of the Covenant in the first Raiders of the Lost Ark is another example, where it was described, with its vague nature only temporary to keep the viewer's attention until the big reveal at the end, when its supernatural power turned out to be very real and took the central role of slaying (in gory detail) the entire Nazi force, saving the characters at the end of the movie.
The point being that the definition is broad. While all MacGuffins spark motivation from usually conflicting characters throughout a film, they can go from entirely unexplained passive objects to extensively detailed elements that later themselves act as a main action force in a film. Mosedschurte ( talk) 03:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
216.115.60.247 ( talk) 23:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree the definition is too broad. As I see it the most central element in the plot of New Hope is not really R2-D2, but the technical drawings R2-D2 happens to be holding. However, the nature of those drawings is what is important in the end, so they are not lacking intrinsic importance. If we want a character lacking intrinsic importance, we should look at Leia, who after giving the technical drawings to R2-D2 and asking it to deliver help in the beginning, doesn't do anything important besides being an object, as far as I recall. If it's not a requirement that a MacGuffin has to lack intrinsic importance it seems like almost anything, that isn't merely a part of the scenery, is a MacGuffin. If a MacGuffin needs to have a lasting presence and effect, that excludes some things, but for example all major characters would still be MacGuffins as they keep the plot moving forward. – Lakefall ( talk) 16:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I've added ( [1]) the Star Wars example because its got to be one of the few examples where the movie director/writer has explicitly referred to as the MacGuffin, in this case on the DVD commentary soundtrack at about 15 minutes in (where the stormtroopers find droid bits on Tattooine). It's also interesting that it is of significance to the plot, so Lucas is using the phrase in a sense contra to that of the movie buffs. Who do you believe, eh? Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 18:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
R2D2 is a MacGuffin in the sense, that it carries the plans of the Death Star. It's initiating the action. /roger.duprat.copenhagen
I don't get this. Whatever you think of his movies, there's no question he's an important and knowledgable filmmaker. Unless any of us here are also filmmakers, then our opinions don't count for much. Of the three references to this article, one (the Indy IV one) says nothing either way. Of the other two, one's an amateur dictionary site, the other an amateur cinema site. The second site uses this article as a reference, so its use seems a completely circular argument to me.
Surely, if a filmmaker calls something in his movie a MacGuffin, then it's a MacGuffin. You might say that isn't what Hitchcock meant, but reading through the Hitchcock quote, I don't see that it rules out R2D2. In fact Hitchcock says "it could be anything - or nothing - at all". Hence, the term is inclusive, not exclusive.
I don't see any, NOT ONE, reference in this article from a respected filmmaker using the term MacGuffin in the proscriptive way advocated here. If amateur movie buffs want to use the word in a narrow sense, that's fine, but the article should respect the fact that people in the industry clearly do not.
Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 19:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems the major problem is a lack of sources. Is MacGuffin still used mostly the way Hitchcock intended it or has it changed? Lucas could simply be using the word incorrectly or he could using the word the way it is commonly used now. Rodger Ebert used the term in his review of transformers the Hitchcock way saying that the "allspark" is a MacGuff - it doesn't matter what it is. As he is a notable film critic that would lend weight to the way the article stands. 151.112.57.22 21:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that famous "Rosebud" from " Citizen Kane" movie can be considered as MacGuffin, isn't it? -- AndyTerry 19:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think its insignificant - its pretty-much the answer to the main question of the film ("what was Rosebud?") and is crucial to the viewer's understanding of Kane. It's not a "random memory", rather a significant one. One of the best definitions of "MacGuffin" (which we've used when discussing examples in this article -see talk page) is that it is interchangable - it could be absolutely anything for the purposes of the plot. Apart from that, we need to keep the "examples" section to a minimum. Earlier versions of this article were horrible lists of every passing editors favourite "MacGuffin" (many if not most of them original research and not proper MacGuffins at all) -- Zagrebo 13:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The sled could have been interchanged with Albus Dumbledore's woolen socks. The reporter would still go for the story. What Kane wanted was happiness, and for all his money and power, the closest he came to attaining happiness was sledding on Rosebud outside that Colorado shack. Perfect MacGuffin. MMetro ( talk) 21:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick note. Some editor made a comment and placed it between one of my comments and my signature. This later got placed in the archive. (I probably wouldn't have even noticed if the comment had sounded like something I'd say) I've edited the archive and properly attributed the comment. Please, folks, properly attribute your comments. -- superluser t c 20:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure this has come up before but I'm going to press it anyway. The letters of transit in Casablanca are nonsensical. The characters are using letters of transit signed by Charles de Gaulle to exit Vichy France. There is no way that Vichy would recognize these letters as being official documents. Nor does it make any sense why Nazis would be in possession of these documents. Roger Eberts makes this same point on the DVD commentary track. So I guess my question is- If the characters don't in fact need the letters to leave that why are they not a MacGuffin?
KHorberg 15:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
In defense of my edit to add Transformers to the list of film examples, I can think of no more authoritative source to state that a particular item is a MacGuffin than Roger Ebert. As someone else noted in the revert of my edit, Roger Ebert does not rely on Wikipedia to make this determination - he relies on his professional judgement and merely directs those who don't know what a MacGuffin is to this page. Great press for Wikipedia! I'll admit that I thought it would be clever for those so directed to find the Allspark in Transformers specifically listed as a Macguffin, but that does not detract from its timeliness and relevance as an example. -- Javance 02:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
The "Allspark" works as a MacGuffin precisely because it is so very silly. Something that in some vague way creates life? What? The Allspark exists in the film to motivate the characters to do things (i.e. create plot), but does not in itself have much depth of meaning or explanation. One of the central aspects of a MacGuffin is replaceability. In the crook plots, the necklace is easily replaced with a ring, a bracelet, a stash of gold coins, a set of valuable old stamps. In a spy thriller, the contents of the papers just have to be Important -- what they actually say (the code for launching nukes? the identity of Valerie Plame?) is unimportant. For it to be a MacGuffin, the thing in itself doesn't much matter, only that it be capable of motivating everyone in the movie. I would agree that Lucas kind of misused the term when he called R2-D2 a MacGuffin.
It's pretty simple actually. If the All-Spark is not a McGuffin, then neither are the letters of transit in Casablanca. They both are constantly sought throughout the entire movie, and though McGuffins, they play a pivotal role in the plot at the end of the movie. Whether it be killing Megatron or helping Ilsa and Victor escape to America, they are one and the same. If one is to be removed from the list, then so must the other, and I believe a similar argument could be made for most of the other McGuffins on the list, such as the statue in The Maltese Falcon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.40.44 ( talk) 20:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Does the pineapple in the first season episode The Pineapple Incident qualifies as a MacGuffin? It moves the story, it`s never revealed why, when or how it got there and it names the episode.-- Morpheos 14:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Disagree. It's "Rosebud" all over again, but you definitely need a secondary source to cite in this overcrowded and misunderstood topic. MMetro ( talk) 20:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I like it. Well done. It cites usage in the industry but then explains the differences in a *non judgemental* way. Good stuff. Trying to prevent explanations or uses we don't like is wrong, but letting the reader come to a conclusion based on varied expert opinion is precisely what this article should strive for. Neale Monks 17:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I realize that we're not intending to be exaustive by any means here, but we need to at least capture examples from a wider variety of genres. We should have examples from video games and drama, at the very least. I'm sure there are other genres as well that are significant. And if we're gonna have examples from cartoons, we should have more than one. There are too significant of differences between the different types for them to be encapsulated by any one example. Manga may be significant in Japan, but it's mostly niche in the U.S. and Europe, and there's plenty from the U.S. that isn't very popular in Japan, either. Maratanos 21:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
In the final book The End, towards the end of the book (Chapter 13, I think), a conversation about the Baudelaire orphan's fortune is mentioned, which gets the response from Sunny (who normally speaks in nonsensical words which have to be translated by her siblings) "MacGuffin". I think this is a good example of a MacGuffin, as the whole series of books centre around Count Olaf trying to get his hands on the fortune, but ultimately, the fortune is never retrieved. Would this be a good example to include in the literature example section? StephenBuxton 16:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
A more clear MacGuffin in the entire series (or at least from the 8th book) would be the suger bowl, you never see it, only here of its existance, you never learn what is in it and at the end of the series you have no clue about what has happend to it. It is not cofirmed that it is a MacGuffin I just wish to throw this in for consideration.-- Whap ( talk) 18:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I know this definition is purely OR, so I would not dream of putting it in the main article. The reason I am writing it here is that I want to check that I have got the understanding of a MacGuffin correct. A MacGuffin (or at least, my idea of one) is an object in a plot that does not do anything other than cause the plot to happen. If you could take a plot item, replace it by a box of chocolates, and the plot still develops in the same way as before, then it is a MacGuffin. Does that sound about right? StephenBuxton 13:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure yet whether I understood the concept. Does the ring in LOTR apply? I would think so, that it's a ring seems rather random (as long as you chose to ignore things like Lessing's "Nathan The Wise"), it could as well be 'The Sword Of A Thousand Truths'. If the ring is a McGuffin, it should be added to the example list. What's the difference between a McGuffin and a plot device in general? Doesn't it have to be an actual device or item? If so, 'rosebud' in 'Citizen Kane' wouldn't be a McGuffin, but simply a plot device, since it's not an actual object but an abstract idea throughout the film. Davey Jones' heart in 'Pirates of the Carrebean' would not be one, since it has a significance in itself, beeing the heart of one of the characters - while a ring is normally simply a piece of jewellery. My all time favourite Mcguffin would be the 'pieces of eight' in the 3rd Pirates movie. Ebn 17:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
It does not seem to me that the tape in The Life of David Gale is a MacGuffin, since it does tell us a few things about the plot, specifically in the ending. What do you guys think? Ty Weezy 14:03, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I totally agree. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
143.44.131.245 (
talk)
03:43, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Where does MI3's Rabbit's Foot fit in to this? JJ Abrams called it a MacGuffin in several interviews. It's an mysterious "thing" that all the characters seek. It's explained what it *could* be, but the audience or movie characters are never sure. Tom Cruise's character steals an object that may or may not be the Rabbits Foot.-- 24.249.108.133 ( talk) 23:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
MMetro ( talk) 18:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that an IP took my changes to the point where ILiketobeAnonymous reverted to the original POV'd statement. While I admire the citations for the original quotes, the original contributor seems to disagree with these quotes, as the resulting synthesis violates WP:NOR. Unless there is corroborating evidence for the synthesis (and I highly doubt anybody of serious worth questions Ebert's assessment of the All-dreck), the synthesis should be removed. However, the removal will seriously harm the subsection unless other better-documented problems can be found. I suggest keeping the quotes elsewhere while removing the section entirely, or replacing it with the 24 November 2007 Third Paragraph of description-- but that is also uncited. Any other ideas? MMetro ( talk) 10:29, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The creation of the problems section was Revision as of 19:20, 13 May 2007 by Neale Monks. I hardly think less than a year establishes it as old.Since then, it has added a second example of citation and disagreement. However, 3RR foreshadowed, I can see that removing the POV is futile, and I will seek the advice from admin and outside council. If they think it's okay, fine, ILtbA, but I feel that it is misusing the citation. MMetro ( talk) 08:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Is the briefcase of money a MacGuffin? I would be inclined to say yes, but I will leave it to someone else to add it to the list if they agree. I would almost say it is the definition of a MacGuffin, since the movie revolves around chasing the briefcase, but the movie is really about the characters and their personalities, and the money never really matters at all. -- 155.91.28.231 ( talk) 15:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be cited if there's consensus on it; managing the page is what the talk page is for. The briefcase is a MacGuffin -- it never becomes clear why it's so sought-after. That's to say, it's not really logical that it's just about the money. On the other hand, a bit of the money is used, so it's not the best example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.133.245 ( talk) 20:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, so the Cloverfield Monster is clearly the largest McGuffin in the history of cinema. It's merely a plot driver for a disaster movie, not the focus of a monster movie. Right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.15.34.234 ( talk) 13:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I figured I'd bring it here since there is no video game section yet.
The whole point of these two games is to find Macguffins. The player finds items which don't affect the game or plot in any way, but are permitted to advance to the next portion of the game when they have an arbetrary number of them. I'm not sure if it can be cited because it's such a fundamental mechanic in these games. Would there be a problem if this was added? Hewinsj ( talk) 14:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to see this article merged with Plot device. The two concepts are so similar as to be indistinguishable. In fact from the definitions in the articles I can't see a difference at all. Any objections? DJ Clayworth ( talk) 20:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
From just reading the article, it seems immediately apparent to me that the movie What's Up Doc with Barbra Streisand and Ryan O'Niel has four MacGuffins - the four identical traveling cases with four different contents (secret papers, coed's college stuff, rich lady's jewelry, and musicologist's tambula rocks.) While there are complexities in the plot caused by the contents being different, everybody is chasing after these four items, and no one ever really gets to use any of them. We do get some details from time to time about some of the contents, for instance in the criminal's hideout we see the much-vaunted rocks plainly for a few seconds, and one of them appears to be nothing more than a piece of concrete. It almost seems like the stories of the contents are another whole story of which we only get a glimpse now and then. I'll add this after 3 months if there's no objection. Friendly Person ( talk) 23:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
As seems normal on Wikipedia, the "Examples" section is growing and growing as everyone adds their own favourite examples of this frequently-used plot device. Since there seems to be no limit on how big it might grow I propose one of two solutions.
Any preferences? DJ Clayworth ( talk) 15:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Someone deleted the example I added last week, namely both the eponymous Car and the Continuum Transfunctioner from "Dude Where's my Car." The example was short, factual and well-cited and I'm actually pretty peeved that someone took it upon themselves to delete what I thought was a great and highly relevant example, especially when I question the validity of several of the pre-existing ones. If there's to be a cap on examples that's fine, and I don't want to get in an adding/deleting war with the editor in question, but is there anywhere I can appeal this deletion? USER: RitzWolf 13:35 29 September 2008
The MacGuffin by definition is the object that at least starts off the plot but is of little consequence to the action of the movie in and of itself. It is the characters desire to get the to object first that provides the motivation. Why they want to get it or what it is is secondary to the character's methods of getting to it.
Therefore, since the object in all four INDIANA JONES movies (the Lost Ark, the Stones, the Holy Grail, the Crystal skull) play a crucial role in the finale of each movie, they are not MacGuffins.
It is the passiveness or inconsequentiality of the central object that makes it a MacGuffin. If it somehow interacts with the characters or becomes more significantly important to the plot it ceases to be a MacGuffin.
The Lost Ark in RAIDERS could be interpreted as an actual character as opposed to just the central object.
Drjimmyandmrjim ( talk) 21:11, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Somehow, I thought Kiss Me Deadly would be the first and most obvious instance of the use of a MacGuffin in film. Certainly if later films like Pulp Fiction which seem to be explicitly referencing Kiss Me Deadly appear here, I would imagine to see it here too... or am I the only one who immediately thinks of that film when the word "MacGuffin" pops up? zadignose ( talk) 08:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I tried it add Y: The Last Man to the list of MacGuffins in comic books, but it kept showing up under the list of films. I'm sorry I'm not a terribly proficient wikipedia editor. Also, I can find a source for it, if that is absolutely required, but I think some of the editors on this article have goen a little citation crazy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.49.119.227 ( talk) 05:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I know much of the Talk page here is taken up with people protesting that the bit of kit or gadgetry mentioned in their own particular favourite film shouldn't be considered a McGuffin (on the apparent assumption that 'McGuffin' is a derogatory term) - but I have to take issue with the statement that the chest in Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest is a McGuffin. The chest contains (or at times is merely thought to contain) the heart of Davy Jones, the chief villain of the second movie, and represents the means by which he can be controlled. It therefore represents a way out of trouble for Jack in the second film, and the reason Jones and the Flying Dutchman are operating under the command of the East India Company in the third. It also - without wanting to inflict too many spoilers - has a significant role to play in determining the fate of one of the main characters at the end of the third film.
More than all that, the function of the heart (and therefore the chest it's kept in) is explored and explained in detail during the two sequel movies, so we not only know it's important but we know why. Of course I accept that the actual explanation for how it does what it does is left to the imagination. A McGuffin, as I understand it, is something that we're told is important and we accept is important for the sake of the story without needing to know why it is. Therefore I suggest that the "Dead Man's Chest" isn't a McGuffin but a plot element. - 78.86.81.52 ( talk) 18:05, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
...for which I have no reference at all, sadly. The TV Set in Beavis and Butthead do America is a great example of a proper McGuffin: they start their trip searching for the TV set that's stolen at the beginning of the movie, then come up with the idea of gaining some cash to buy a new one, spend two hours of footage between spies, criminals and the FBI and - after being decorated by the President of the US (but, of course, given no money) - they finally find their old TV set in their neighborhood.
Don't know how it works, see if you can slop it in according to the guidelines, otherwise...
P.s.: My English sucks and it's late night here, I'm far too tired to check the above shebang for errors, sorry. Goodnight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.33.51 ( talk) 22:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, I guess so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.0.33.51 ( talk) 22:18, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Under the Examples section under films it has "The mysterious, dangerous contents in the trunk of the 1964 Chevrolet Malibu in Repo Man" listed as the MacGuffin in the film. I would argue that the Malibu itself is the MacGuffin, as most of the characters actually had no idea that the trunk had anything of interest in it at all. AltrEgo2001 ( talk) 17:30, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The Mel Brooks movie "High Anxiety", which parodies many Hitchcock films, makes a reference to MacGuffin.
When Richard H. Thorndyke (Mel Brooks) arrives in San Francisco Hyatt Regency hotel to attend the American Psychiatric Convention, he finds his room is on the 17th floor, despite having secured a reservation for a room on the 2nd floor. He's afraid of heights, and when he asks what happened to his original room, the desk clerk informs him that a Mr. MacGuffin called and requested the change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.201.231.221 ( talk) 09:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
The Princeton's wordnet defines the term "a plot element that catches the viewers' attention or drives the plot". A MacGuffin certainly isn't always "not explained", though it sometimes it clearly escapes any definition (such as the extreme case of the suitcase in Pulp Fiction (film)).
Moreover, comporting with that definition, countless examples exist (some in the article) of the specifics of a MacGuffin being explained in excruciating detail, such as the battle plans for the Death Star in Star Wars, for which we not only saw an extended explanatory film within the middle of the film, but those details were the center of the entire climactic ending 15 minutes or so of the movie. In fact, in that instance, the MacGuffin's details were actually explained in more specificity than the motivation of any character in the movie. The Ark of the Covenant in the first Raiders of the Lost Ark is another example, where it was described, with its vague nature only temporary to keep the viewer's attention until the big reveal at the end, when its supernatural power turned out to be very real and took the central role of slaying (in gory detail) the entire Nazi force, saving the characters at the end of the movie.
The point being that the definition is broad. While all MacGuffins spark motivation from usually conflicting characters throughout a film, they can go from entirely unexplained passive objects to extensively detailed elements that later themselves act as a main action force in a film. Mosedschurte ( talk) 03:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
216.115.60.247 ( talk) 23:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree the definition is too broad. As I see it the most central element in the plot of New Hope is not really R2-D2, but the technical drawings R2-D2 happens to be holding. However, the nature of those drawings is what is important in the end, so they are not lacking intrinsic importance. If we want a character lacking intrinsic importance, we should look at Leia, who after giving the technical drawings to R2-D2 and asking it to deliver help in the beginning, doesn't do anything important besides being an object, as far as I recall. If it's not a requirement that a MacGuffin has to lack intrinsic importance it seems like almost anything, that isn't merely a part of the scenery, is a MacGuffin. If a MacGuffin needs to have a lasting presence and effect, that excludes some things, but for example all major characters would still be MacGuffins as they keep the plot moving forward. – Lakefall ( talk) 16:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
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