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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 3 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Inahong, Sashaalexa.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
As mentioned below, after carefully analyzing this page, our group decided to make some changes regarding the structure and content of the article. By changing around the structure and including and revising sections, we were able to create bigger, more relevant sections, rather than having many smalls sections with only a couple sentences in it. Originally there were many small paragraphs or random sentences placed around the article, and through this structure change, we were either able to add more information to these paragraphs and include them in a bigger section, or ultimately remove them if they were unimportant. In regards to the content, we found that some of the links were too narrowly focused, occasionally the language was too broad and lacked information, a few pictures were faded and rather unclear, and many citations were either left out or incorrect. By dividing the work up among our three group members, we each were able to tackle these issues in our individual sections, and try to include more information from reliable cites and better overall links that lead to helpful sources. Finally, we were able to take the time to fix previously noticed flaws, such as the Original Research Warning. We feel that these additions enhanced the overall quality of the article, and made it more resourceful for all viewers. Jhirschberg13 ( talk) 22:45, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi, everyone! I'm part of a group of three enrolled in a class at Colgate University that has been assigned to edit a wikipedia article and we have chosen this one. We're hoping to rework the structure a little bit and maybe some of the wording, but we're starting so please be patient with us! Also, if anyone has additional ideas/suggestions/objections to any edits we make, we'd be really grateful for the input! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lunazagor ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I wonder, would it not read more clearly if saying rather than "Not have I carried off food", it said, "Naught have I carried off food"?
If anyone agrees I could change it.
I have found several sources, including from Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan, that states that their are 147 Negative Confessions. I think this needs to be clairifed.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.152.26.141 ( talk) 14:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
Comments number 20 and 21 are identical in the list; this needs tp be double-checked. - Dragonfly31 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.145.88.180 ( talk) 12:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
This page says that souls were weighed against Maat, who was represented as a feather, but the page on Duat says that souls were weighed against just a feather. Was the feather Maat herself or did Maat have a feather or is it sometimes one way and sometimes another?
Maat was a seperate entity I believe, although she and the feather represented the same things: truth and justice. Maat possessed the feather.-ka
The Shu-Feather, and Maát, are interchangeable, and the principle, which extended for centuries, actually millenia, was (I am sure), a principle tied with the Role, and Authority of the Pharaoh.
So... MenKneperRe, Becomes ..."Steadfastly becoming like Ra", quite a lofty goal for any human, much less the leader of a People.
The point I want to get at is that "Maát" , is represented on the the "Ceremonial" Scarabs of Thutmose III, thus: Maat is the seated "Goddess" with the Shu feather on her head for identification, but on her Knee, at 60 degree angle (or whatever), is the Ankh. When you put all these "High" principles together, the Ankh, Maát. the 'She-feather'–of-truth, the Pharaoh, and Kheper, always trying to be better: Transformation. .....All I have to say, is, Thank goodness they were working in Stone, etc. Michael inHotDesertArizonaYUMA,Az-- Mmcannis 04:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Why was the list of confessions changed like they are now? Before, when it was "Thou shalt not ..." it was much easier to read and understand. I realise that they originally say "I have not..." but even then it's easier than it is now, with the extra bit at the beginning of each line. I've generally only seen it on sites written in the first two ways I've mentioned. -- WolferGiga 14:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
It was changed when I discovered that the actual source cited no less made it clear that the actual statements were negative affirmations. The deceased said that they didn't do those things, but nowhere was it stated "thou shalt not". That was changed to make it more understandable to the audience, but to quote them as such would disagree with the source and be inaccurate.
KV( Talk) 00:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 06:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Maàt → Ma'at — All our external sources seem to spell the name "Ma'at", which is also the only way I've ever seen it spelled. (I am not an expert.) I didn't think the "a-with-grave-accent" character was part of any transliteration scheme. -- Quuxplusone 01:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC) Quuxplusone 01:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
Add any additional comments:
I'm just going to list off some of the sources I have found. Alternatively, I can go read the book itself and list what I can find.
http://www.maatinus.com/Nguzo%20Saba/negative.htm - seems pretty good, though not numbered.
http://hometown.aol.com/tokapu/declar.htm - another good one, though I am not sure of the translator, it is an aol homepage. Calls them declarations of innocence
http://www.ancient-knowledge-breakthrough.net/id17.html - Declarations of Innocence again.
http://www.philae.nu/akhet/Declaration.html - Seems well enough
http://www.smaitawiankh.org/hekau.html - This version tries to expand upon them in parentheses about what they mean. It also says "I will not".
http://www.maatinus.com/Nguzo%20Saba/maatprn.htm - yet another
Those are a few I have found..... but they definately are not 33 in number.
KV( Talk) 23:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
You can't just copy these off on any website, the translator holds the copyright. Budge could be used, I believe his work is in the public domain. But in any case, source texts are not supposed to be included in Wikipedia. They belong in Wikisource. The correct solution would be to add a public domain version to Wikisource and then link to it from WP. IPSOS ( talk) 01:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Please be a bit more careful with sources. allexperts cannot be used, it is derived from Wikipedia. Forums cannot be used, they don't meet WP:RS (or is it WP:ATT now), etc. I'll be removing impermissible sources. IPSOS ( talk) 01:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In general, a reliable web source gives its sources. IPSOS ( talk) 01:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Man, none of the sources was any good.
IPSOS ( talk) 04:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
There are no references to dates of each of the mentionings here, they should be included. Faro0485 ( talk) 21:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest changing the article name from Ma'at to Maat because the latter seems the most common in modern scholarly works and it is little bit more keyboard/user friendly. If no objections will proceed in a months time. Taam ( talk) 14:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I have renamed, after verifying the Google hits (adding '-wikipedia' to all searches). Crum375 ( talk) 03:57, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I have a problem with "Maat as a principle was formed to meet the complex needs of the emergent Egyptian state that embraced diverse peoples with conflicting interests." - because I don't think there is any evidence that Maat was a response to diversity and suggests that it/she was something to do with introducing uniformity. I intend to remove this and other similar expressions of POV unless someone can give a reference. Apepch7 ( talk) 08:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
8 April 2010, there appear to only be 41 negative confessions? wh'appen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.144.83 ( talk) 07:04, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
After reading the article, I am not clear how a heart is compared to the feather. Does a sinful heart weigh more than the feather? In the Christian system where the soul is weighed, a sinful soul is heavy. The assertion of the Wiki article "Weighing of souls" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighing_of_souls) which discusses both the Christian system and the Egyptian, is that in the Egyptian system the heart must weigh exactly the same as the feather or the heart is devoured. I do not see that confirmed or refuted in this article.
Also, in the Christian system the scale usually appears as a balance between two souls, not against a standard. So your damnation is entirely dependent on who happens to be beside you in line for judgement. Hint: Try to stand between two monstrous criminal types :) 76.181.73.131 ( talk) 22:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
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The description of Maat states that she holds a was sceptre, and she does in many examples of Egyptian imagery I've seen. However, the sceptre in the picture is a wadj, or papyrus, sceptre. Not being a scholar of Egyptian history, I don't know where to look for a citation, but I think the description needs to be clear that her sceptre is not always the was sceptre. I have looked in vain for an authoritative source discussing this, but there are many images to find featuring her holding a was or a wadj sceptre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:89:C700:DE70:9804:A1FE:BA40:9515 ( talk) 21:05, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Is there any indication as to which god the thirty-seventh negative confession refers to? Clearly it is not the Judeo-Christian one, since that god was probably not invented for another several hundred years after the Papyrus of Ani was written. Ikjbagl ( talk) 15:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
I would actually argue that Ma at is the creator Goddess in that she brought order from chaos. She is what we now call "God" Allanana79 ( talk) 13:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 3 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Inahong, Sashaalexa.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
As mentioned below, after carefully analyzing this page, our group decided to make some changes regarding the structure and content of the article. By changing around the structure and including and revising sections, we were able to create bigger, more relevant sections, rather than having many smalls sections with only a couple sentences in it. Originally there were many small paragraphs or random sentences placed around the article, and through this structure change, we were either able to add more information to these paragraphs and include them in a bigger section, or ultimately remove them if they were unimportant. In regards to the content, we found that some of the links were too narrowly focused, occasionally the language was too broad and lacked information, a few pictures were faded and rather unclear, and many citations were either left out or incorrect. By dividing the work up among our three group members, we each were able to tackle these issues in our individual sections, and try to include more information from reliable cites and better overall links that lead to helpful sources. Finally, we were able to take the time to fix previously noticed flaws, such as the Original Research Warning. We feel that these additions enhanced the overall quality of the article, and made it more resourceful for all viewers. Jhirschberg13 ( talk) 22:45, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi, everyone! I'm part of a group of three enrolled in a class at Colgate University that has been assigned to edit a wikipedia article and we have chosen this one. We're hoping to rework the structure a little bit and maybe some of the wording, but we're starting so please be patient with us! Also, if anyone has additional ideas/suggestions/objections to any edits we make, we'd be really grateful for the input! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lunazagor ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I wonder, would it not read more clearly if saying rather than "Not have I carried off food", it said, "Naught have I carried off food"?
If anyone agrees I could change it.
I have found several sources, including from Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan, that states that their are 147 Negative Confessions. I think this needs to be clairifed.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.152.26.141 ( talk) 14:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
Comments number 20 and 21 are identical in the list; this needs tp be double-checked. - Dragonfly31 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.145.88.180 ( talk) 12:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
This page says that souls were weighed against Maat, who was represented as a feather, but the page on Duat says that souls were weighed against just a feather. Was the feather Maat herself or did Maat have a feather or is it sometimes one way and sometimes another?
Maat was a seperate entity I believe, although she and the feather represented the same things: truth and justice. Maat possessed the feather.-ka
The Shu-Feather, and Maát, are interchangeable, and the principle, which extended for centuries, actually millenia, was (I am sure), a principle tied with the Role, and Authority of the Pharaoh.
So... MenKneperRe, Becomes ..."Steadfastly becoming like Ra", quite a lofty goal for any human, much less the leader of a People.
The point I want to get at is that "Maát" , is represented on the the "Ceremonial" Scarabs of Thutmose III, thus: Maat is the seated "Goddess" with the Shu feather on her head for identification, but on her Knee, at 60 degree angle (or whatever), is the Ankh. When you put all these "High" principles together, the Ankh, Maát. the 'She-feather'–of-truth, the Pharaoh, and Kheper, always trying to be better: Transformation. .....All I have to say, is, Thank goodness they were working in Stone, etc. Michael inHotDesertArizonaYUMA,Az-- Mmcannis 04:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Why was the list of confessions changed like they are now? Before, when it was "Thou shalt not ..." it was much easier to read and understand. I realise that they originally say "I have not..." but even then it's easier than it is now, with the extra bit at the beginning of each line. I've generally only seen it on sites written in the first two ways I've mentioned. -- WolferGiga 14:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
It was changed when I discovered that the actual source cited no less made it clear that the actual statements were negative affirmations. The deceased said that they didn't do those things, but nowhere was it stated "thou shalt not". That was changed to make it more understandable to the audience, but to quote them as such would disagree with the source and be inaccurate.
KV( Talk) 00:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 06:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Maàt → Ma'at — All our external sources seem to spell the name "Ma'at", which is also the only way I've ever seen it spelled. (I am not an expert.) I didn't think the "a-with-grave-accent" character was part of any transliteration scheme. -- Quuxplusone 01:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC) Quuxplusone 01:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
Add any additional comments:
I'm just going to list off some of the sources I have found. Alternatively, I can go read the book itself and list what I can find.
http://www.maatinus.com/Nguzo%20Saba/negative.htm - seems pretty good, though not numbered.
http://hometown.aol.com/tokapu/declar.htm - another good one, though I am not sure of the translator, it is an aol homepage. Calls them declarations of innocence
http://www.ancient-knowledge-breakthrough.net/id17.html - Declarations of Innocence again.
http://www.philae.nu/akhet/Declaration.html - Seems well enough
http://www.smaitawiankh.org/hekau.html - This version tries to expand upon them in parentheses about what they mean. It also says "I will not".
http://www.maatinus.com/Nguzo%20Saba/maatprn.htm - yet another
Those are a few I have found..... but they definately are not 33 in number.
KV( Talk) 23:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
You can't just copy these off on any website, the translator holds the copyright. Budge could be used, I believe his work is in the public domain. But in any case, source texts are not supposed to be included in Wikipedia. They belong in Wikisource. The correct solution would be to add a public domain version to Wikisource and then link to it from WP. IPSOS ( talk) 01:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Please be a bit more careful with sources. allexperts cannot be used, it is derived from Wikipedia. Forums cannot be used, they don't meet WP:RS (or is it WP:ATT now), etc. I'll be removing impermissible sources. IPSOS ( talk) 01:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In general, a reliable web source gives its sources. IPSOS ( talk) 01:53, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Man, none of the sources was any good.
IPSOS ( talk) 04:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
There are no references to dates of each of the mentionings here, they should be included. Faro0485 ( talk) 21:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Suggest changing the article name from Ma'at to Maat because the latter seems the most common in modern scholarly works and it is little bit more keyboard/user friendly. If no objections will proceed in a months time. Taam ( talk) 14:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I have renamed, after verifying the Google hits (adding '-wikipedia' to all searches). Crum375 ( talk) 03:57, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I have a problem with "Maat as a principle was formed to meet the complex needs of the emergent Egyptian state that embraced diverse peoples with conflicting interests." - because I don't think there is any evidence that Maat was a response to diversity and suggests that it/she was something to do with introducing uniformity. I intend to remove this and other similar expressions of POV unless someone can give a reference. Apepch7 ( talk) 08:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
8 April 2010, there appear to only be 41 negative confessions? wh'appen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.144.83 ( talk) 07:04, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
After reading the article, I am not clear how a heart is compared to the feather. Does a sinful heart weigh more than the feather? In the Christian system where the soul is weighed, a sinful soul is heavy. The assertion of the Wiki article "Weighing of souls" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighing_of_souls) which discusses both the Christian system and the Egyptian, is that in the Egyptian system the heart must weigh exactly the same as the feather or the heart is devoured. I do not see that confirmed or refuted in this article.
Also, in the Christian system the scale usually appears as a balance between two souls, not against a standard. So your damnation is entirely dependent on who happens to be beside you in line for judgement. Hint: Try to stand between two monstrous criminal types :) 76.181.73.131 ( talk) 22:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Maat. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:02, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
The description of Maat states that she holds a was sceptre, and she does in many examples of Egyptian imagery I've seen. However, the sceptre in the picture is a wadj, or papyrus, sceptre. Not being a scholar of Egyptian history, I don't know where to look for a citation, but I think the description needs to be clear that her sceptre is not always the was sceptre. I have looked in vain for an authoritative source discussing this, but there are many images to find featuring her holding a was or a wadj sceptre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:89:C700:DE70:9804:A1FE:BA40:9515 ( talk) 21:05, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Is there any indication as to which god the thirty-seventh negative confession refers to? Clearly it is not the Judeo-Christian one, since that god was probably not invented for another several hundred years after the Papyrus of Ani was written. Ikjbagl ( talk) 15:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
I would actually argue that Ma at is the creator Goddess in that she brought order from chaos. She is what we now call "God" Allanana79 ( talk) 13:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)