This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Maamme article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 13, 2005, May 13, 2006, May 13, 2007, May 13, 2008, and May 13, 2016. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
When(date, year) was it officially declared as the national anthem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.65.192.22 ( talk) 06:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the move from "Maamme" to "Maamme/Vårt land" is such a good idea. Use of either name is a better altervative and could be well argued for. It would also be possible to chose a more neutral designation such as "National anthem of Finland". Compare with Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika/Die stem van Suid-Afrika at
National anthem of South Africa. --
Mic 08:13, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Agreed that it is not a good name. But "National anthem of Finland" sounds like a bad compromise. Google gives a edge for Maamme compared to Vårt Land. Only english-language sites included:
Searching for only "Vårt land" gives results får norwegian sites with "vaart land" etc. -- Jniemenmaa 08:31, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
What is the usual practice when the anthem is sung?
The lyrics regarded as a literary work would favour the Swedish spelling, as it is written in Swedish and then translated to Finnish. However, I am doubtful whether that would be the overriding concern. -- Mic 12:22, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It depends who the group is made of, what the organisation is, or even what place you are in. For instance, on places such as Åland or in Närpes you are unlikely to hear it sung in anything else than Swedish. Just as if you were in Oulu, you'd be unlikely to hear it in anything else in Finnish. There again, exceptions to every rule - Svenska folkpartiet for instance has had its conferences in places like Tampere/Tammerfors - where naturally it was sung in Swedish. I have been to gatherings in bilingual places where it's sung in both languages, often they just do the first verse twice (once in Finnish, once in Swedish). Of course, sometimes everyone just sings according to their own choice of language. Hmm... basically, there is no rule to go by - so no easy answer to your question! 82.21.219.114 ( talk) 20:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I hope I did not step on too many toes now when I made Vårt Land into a disambiguation page; I did it as a consequence of a discussion on the Wikipedia:Requested moves page concerning a Norwegian newspaper by the same name. I also discovered that there has been, among other things, a Swedish newspaper called Vårt Land. There seems to be no point in putting a disambiguation notice on top when this page is under the Finnish title. / u p p l a n d 22:00, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Which oneis the correct title of the song? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.78.110.8 ( talk) 18:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Third paragraph of the article sound a bit biased while describing the preferred national song:
I just recently read for the first time an article where this was debated. As far as I know, there isn't any real movement to change to national anthem. Is this claim based on something else than maybe a single newspaper article or an opinion poll? The writer seems to be quite certain about the reasons people prefer Finlandia - is this based on a survey?
This sounds like a personal opinion and doesn't belong here.
See also Talk:Finland.
- Nikke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.197.232.132 ( talk) 15:10, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
I moved the article back to Maamme from Maamme or Vårt land. Maybe we could discuss this before making such a move? The move to "Maamme or Vårt land" also caused a lot of double-redirects which had not been fixed. -- Jniemenmaa 09:11, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
The article says:
This may be slightly incorrect, however, because the fourth verse of the original poem in Swedish does contain a reference to the "Finnish people":
Granted, the 4th verse is not sung as part of the anthem (only the first and last verses are), but still, that mention in the article could be revised a bit. -- Jonik 15:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Since Maamme and the Estonian anthem share the same tune, I have linked the instrumental music file for both. – Kaihsu ( talk) 15:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Could we at least get some citations for the claims of certain people wanting Finlandia as Finland's national anthem? I've heard of this rumour before but I've never seen which people/parties specifically are/were striving towards this goal. Same goes for the critics who supposedly said Finlandia is hard to sing. -- TheHande ( talk) 10:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Maamme. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.national-anthems.net/countries/index.php?id=FIWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:04, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:49, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Maamme → Vårt land – The title here seems truly strange. The article is about a poem Vårt land. As the text indicates, this poem was written in Swedish with the same title, Vårt Land. The Finnish version is only a translation. I don't know of any other case where we use the title of a translation instead of the original (except for the translated title in English). I could see a case for using an English title, or the title of the original. Using a translation that it neither English nor the original seems odd. (Please note that the fact that it is also the anthem of Finland is a moot argument; both Finnish and Swedish are official languages of Finland with equal legal standing. Neither title is more relevant for the anthem of the bilingual country). Hence I propose that the title be changed to Vårt land, or to an English translation. Jeppiz ( talk) 12:54, 23 December 2019 (UTC)—Relisting. Dekimasu よ! 01:10, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
A Swedish-speaking Finn is just as much a Finn as a Finnish-speaking Finn. The argument conflates language and nationality. The wider argument still stands. This is a poem in Swedish, and using the Swedish title seem a natural. As the article makes clear, it's a widely known poem in Sweden. Jeppiz ( talk) 20:30, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
The phrase "national anthem" was changed to "unofficial national anthem" with no edit comment, no source citation, and no discussion here in Talk, so I reverted the change.
11:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpbsmith ( talk • contribs) 11:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
It’s “funny” seeing how the word “unofficial” has been reinserted, while the banner shouts “This article may be expanded with text translated from the corresponding article in Finnish.” The first sentence in the Finnish article goes “Maamme (ruots. Vårt land) on Suomen kansallislaulu.” (Maame (Swed. Vårt land) is the national anthem of Finland.) No “unofficial” over there, nor “de facto” (both words that I would not recognize). Perhaps the first thing that can be done to sync this to the Finnish article is to re-remove the word “unofficial”. — al12si ( talk) 06:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Should the description describe Maamme as "the de facto national anthem of Finland"?
Accordingly, should the tag in the infobox be "National anthem of Finland"?
This seems to be the consensus in edits and from the Talk page, however an individual user has repeatedly reverted "the de facto national anthem" to "an unofficial national anthem". Lea 4545 ( talk) 22:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Maamme article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 13, 2005, May 13, 2006, May 13, 2007, May 13, 2008, and May 13, 2016. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
When(date, year) was it officially declared as the national anthem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.65.192.22 ( talk) 06:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the move from "Maamme" to "Maamme/Vårt land" is such a good idea. Use of either name is a better altervative and could be well argued for. It would also be possible to chose a more neutral designation such as "National anthem of Finland". Compare with Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika/Die stem van Suid-Afrika at
National anthem of South Africa. --
Mic 08:13, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Agreed that it is not a good name. But "National anthem of Finland" sounds like a bad compromise. Google gives a edge for Maamme compared to Vårt Land. Only english-language sites included:
Searching for only "Vårt land" gives results får norwegian sites with "vaart land" etc. -- Jniemenmaa 08:31, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
What is the usual practice when the anthem is sung?
The lyrics regarded as a literary work would favour the Swedish spelling, as it is written in Swedish and then translated to Finnish. However, I am doubtful whether that would be the overriding concern. -- Mic 12:22, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
It depends who the group is made of, what the organisation is, or even what place you are in. For instance, on places such as Åland or in Närpes you are unlikely to hear it sung in anything else than Swedish. Just as if you were in Oulu, you'd be unlikely to hear it in anything else in Finnish. There again, exceptions to every rule - Svenska folkpartiet for instance has had its conferences in places like Tampere/Tammerfors - where naturally it was sung in Swedish. I have been to gatherings in bilingual places where it's sung in both languages, often they just do the first verse twice (once in Finnish, once in Swedish). Of course, sometimes everyone just sings according to their own choice of language. Hmm... basically, there is no rule to go by - so no easy answer to your question! 82.21.219.114 ( talk) 20:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I hope I did not step on too many toes now when I made Vårt Land into a disambiguation page; I did it as a consequence of a discussion on the Wikipedia:Requested moves page concerning a Norwegian newspaper by the same name. I also discovered that there has been, among other things, a Swedish newspaper called Vårt Land. There seems to be no point in putting a disambiguation notice on top when this page is under the Finnish title. / u p p l a n d 22:00, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Which oneis the correct title of the song? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.78.110.8 ( talk) 18:50, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Third paragraph of the article sound a bit biased while describing the preferred national song:
I just recently read for the first time an article where this was debated. As far as I know, there isn't any real movement to change to national anthem. Is this claim based on something else than maybe a single newspaper article or an opinion poll? The writer seems to be quite certain about the reasons people prefer Finlandia - is this based on a survey?
This sounds like a personal opinion and doesn't belong here.
See also Talk:Finland.
- Nikke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.197.232.132 ( talk) 15:10, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
I moved the article back to Maamme from Maamme or Vårt land. Maybe we could discuss this before making such a move? The move to "Maamme or Vårt land" also caused a lot of double-redirects which had not been fixed. -- Jniemenmaa 09:11, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
The article says:
This may be slightly incorrect, however, because the fourth verse of the original poem in Swedish does contain a reference to the "Finnish people":
Granted, the 4th verse is not sung as part of the anthem (only the first and last verses are), but still, that mention in the article could be revised a bit. -- Jonik 15:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Since Maamme and the Estonian anthem share the same tune, I have linked the instrumental music file for both. – Kaihsu ( talk) 15:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Could we at least get some citations for the claims of certain people wanting Finlandia as Finland's national anthem? I've heard of this rumour before but I've never seen which people/parties specifically are/were striving towards this goal. Same goes for the critics who supposedly said Finlandia is hard to sing. -- TheHande ( talk) 10:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Maamme. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.national-anthems.net/countries/index.php?id=FIWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:04, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:49, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Maamme → Vårt land – The title here seems truly strange. The article is about a poem Vårt land. As the text indicates, this poem was written in Swedish with the same title, Vårt Land. The Finnish version is only a translation. I don't know of any other case where we use the title of a translation instead of the original (except for the translated title in English). I could see a case for using an English title, or the title of the original. Using a translation that it neither English nor the original seems odd. (Please note that the fact that it is also the anthem of Finland is a moot argument; both Finnish and Swedish are official languages of Finland with equal legal standing. Neither title is more relevant for the anthem of the bilingual country). Hence I propose that the title be changed to Vårt land, or to an English translation. Jeppiz ( talk) 12:54, 23 December 2019 (UTC)—Relisting. Dekimasu よ! 01:10, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
A Swedish-speaking Finn is just as much a Finn as a Finnish-speaking Finn. The argument conflates language and nationality. The wider argument still stands. This is a poem in Swedish, and using the Swedish title seem a natural. As the article makes clear, it's a widely known poem in Sweden. Jeppiz ( talk) 20:30, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
The phrase "national anthem" was changed to "unofficial national anthem" with no edit comment, no source citation, and no discussion here in Talk, so I reverted the change.
11:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpbsmith ( talk • contribs) 11:43, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
It’s “funny” seeing how the word “unofficial” has been reinserted, while the banner shouts “This article may be expanded with text translated from the corresponding article in Finnish.” The first sentence in the Finnish article goes “Maamme (ruots. Vårt land) on Suomen kansallislaulu.” (Maame (Swed. Vårt land) is the national anthem of Finland.) No “unofficial” over there, nor “de facto” (both words that I would not recognize). Perhaps the first thing that can be done to sync this to the Finnish article is to re-remove the word “unofficial”. — al12si ( talk) 06:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Should the description describe Maamme as "the de facto national anthem of Finland"?
Accordingly, should the tag in the infobox be "National anthem of Finland"?
This seems to be the consensus in edits and from the Talk page, however an individual user has repeatedly reverted "the de facto national anthem" to "an unofficial national anthem". Lea 4545 ( talk) 22:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)