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Introducing what may be the single largest diff in Wikipedia history... I was tempted to mark it "minor" just for the pure irony.
I wrote this article myself, entirely from scratch. It was easier than trying to fix all the existing (inaccurate, disorganized and poorly written) ones, and has given rather good end results. I have done my best to make this article approachable, and explain even highly technical issues in a simple fashion, while not hand-waving away the actual, functional details, and thereby making it useless. If you find anything difficult to understand, please be very SPECIFIC about exactly what, and I'll try to address it.
Although it is long, I strongly discourage splitting it: The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Independent articles always end up more generalized, do not make the relationship to the whole nearly as clear, and lower readability simply by virtue of forcing readers to switch to sub-articles, and come back, over and over again. MPEG-1 is also low traffic enough that more eyes in one place should significantly improve article quality.
And please edit carefully. Hopefully this article can maintain a decent level of quality and accuracy, unlike just about every other multimedia article here on WP. I can't watch it forever, so ultimately, it will deteriorate to whatever level of quality all of you are willing to accept. Good luck. Try not to tear it to shreds. Rcooley ( talk) 21:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
The article had claimed that MPEG-1 could be used without any patents licensing fees. However, Dave Singer's post
[1] claimed that it might still be patented. Since
MPEG-2 is still patented, there is a list of patents that it uses, and it is a superset of MPEG-1, if we can show that none of the patents that it still has are relevant for MPEG-1, then we have demonstrated that MPEG-1 is not patented. There are three ways to do this:
I have been working on adding the filing date and granting date for all the patents in the MPEGLA's MPEG-2 portfolio to the MPEG-2 article. It is looking like number 1 is not going to be true (since it would have to have been granted by 1991, which means it would have to have been filed by about 1989). However, there is still hope for 2 or 3. Jrincayc ( talk) 15:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
List of
MPEG-2 patents that were filed by August of 1994, since that is one year after the MPEG-1 standard was published. These may be applicable to MPEG-1.
Jrincayc (
talk) 04:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Note that wikipedia does not give legal advice, so consult a patent lawyer if you really need answers. Patents that probably do not apply to MPEG-1 are Struck out and patents that probably do apply to MPEG-1 are bold. Always give a reason if marking a patent. Data here is only as valid as the reason given. Refiled patents are included if they were initially filed by August 1994. Patents are also can be marked as to whether they are Video or Audio and whether they are for Encoding, Decoding or both. Please jump in and add reason why patents do or don't apply to MPEG-1.
This is a minor issue, but the parenthesis within the statement "each pair of (red and blue) chroma blocks" is confusing. Although green is the closest of the RGB colours to luminance, I think that to suggest that chroma represents red and blue is misleading. Unless, that is, I have misunderstood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.37.33.46 ( talk) 10:02, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
These are all the US patents listed on http://www.ip.philips.com/services/?module=IpsLicenseProgram&command=View&id=52&part=4 as a table. Jrincayc ( talk) 14:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Patent | Filed | Granted | Expiration | Summary | Notes | Company |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
5068846 | 23 apr 1988 | 26 nov 1991 | 23 apr 2008 | Reflective optical record carrier | [83] | Philips |
4977550 | 22 dec 1988 | 11 dec 1990 | 6 may 2003 | Disc playback apparatus for playback of music and digital data | [84] | Sony |
5113255 | 11 may 1990 | 12 may 1992 | 11 may 2010 | Moving image signal encoding apparatus and decoding apparatus | [85] | Panasonic |
5223949 | 17 apr 1992 | 29 jun 1993 | 17 apr 2012 | Coding means for a signal processing system | [86] | Panasonic |
5128758 | 02 jun 1989 | 07 jul 1992 | 02 jun 2009 | Method and apparatus for digitally processing a high definition television augmentation signal | [87] | Philips |
5179442 | 26 nov 1990 | 12 jan 1993 | 26 nov 2010 | Method and apparatus for digitally processing a high definition television augmentation signal | [88] | Philips |
5991715 | 31 aug 1995 | 23 nov 1999 | 31 aug 2015 | Perceptual audio signal subband coding using value classes for successive scale factor differences | [89] | Institut für Rundfunktechnik |
5323396 | 21 dec 1992 | 21 jun 1994 | 21 dec 2012 | Digital transmission system, transmitter and receiver for use in the transmission system | [90] | Philips |
5777992 | 07 jun 1995 | 07 jul 1998 | 07 jun 2015 | Decoder for decoding and encoded digital signal and a receiver comprising the decoder | [91] | Philips |
5539829 | 07 jun 1995 | 23 jul 1996 | 07 jun 2015 | Subband coded digital transmission system using some composite signals | [92] | Philips |
7209565 | 23 dec 2003 | 24 apr 2007 | 23 dec 2023 | Decoding of an encoded wideband digital audio signal in a transmission system for transmitting and receiving such signal | [93] | Philips |
5745641 | 28 nov 1995 | 28 apr 1998 | 28 nov 2015 | Full-motion video disc with reference information for slow-motion or freeze playback | [94] | Philips |
5606539 | 31 aug 1994 | 25 feb 1997 | 31 aug 2014 | Method and apparatus for encoding and decoding an audio and/or video signal, and a record carrier for use with such apparatus | [95] | Philips |
5844867 | 09 sep 1996 | 01 dec 1998 | 09 sep 2016 | Methods and apparatus for encoding and decoding an audio and/or video signal, and a record carrier used therewith or produced therefrom | [96] | Philips |
5214678 | 31 may 1990 | 25 may 1993 | 31 may 2010 | Digital transmission system using subband coding of a digital signal | [97] | No recorded assignee |
RE37222 | 12 oct 1990 | 21 jul 1992 | 12 oct 2010 | Video signal transmitting system | Reissue of 05132792 filed 19 jul 1994 granted 12 jun 2001 [98] | Sony |
5191436 | 30 apr 1991 | 02 mar 1993 | 30 apr 2011 | Method for recording coded motion picture data | [99] | Sony |
5291486 | 07 aug 1992 | 01 mar 1994 | 07 aug 2012 | Data multiplexing apparatus and multiplexed data demultiplexing apparatus | [100] | Sony |
RE34965 | 18 jan 1990 | 15 jan 1991 | 18 jan 2010 | Inter-frame predictive encoding system with encoded and transmitted prediction error | Reissue of 04985768 filed 14 jan 1993 granted 13 jun 1995 [101] | JVC |
RE35158 | 26 apr 1990 | 01 jan 1991 | 26 apr 2010 | Apparatus for adaptive inter-frame predictive encoding of video signal | Reissue of 04982285 filed 28 dec 1992 granted 20 feb 1996 [102] | JVC |
I am trying to understand the MPEG-1 synthesis windows and I found a mention of this reference: S. Searing, "Suggested Formulas for Audio Analysis and Synthesis Windows", ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29/WG11 MPEG 91/328, November 1991. However, I have not been able to find a way to get a hold of this. A couple google searches as well as worldcat that I tried have only turned up the book that I found the reference in, and nothing on the original paper. I also tried searching at both iso and iec, and could not find it though maybe I am searching for it incorrectly there. Any ideas? Thanks. Jrincayc ( talk) 13:19, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Achieving much higher compression is simply not possible without discarding some perceptible information.
That seems ulikely to be true, as AAC archives much higher compression.
The reason for this disparity with both earlier and later tests is not clear, but strangely, a sample of applause is notably absent from this test.
The rason seems to be obvious - the first test tested matrix encoded two channel MP2 vs full six channel audio other formats. That gave large advantage to MP2. It's so obvious actually I would say that the test was intentionally biased in favor of MP2.
-- 90.179.235.249 ( talk) 12:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Something that I haven't been able to find any further information on, after coming across some DVD / VCD encoding header tables on an external page (whilst looking for info about where the MPG2 field order flag is hidden ... still hunting that as well!) - what's the deal with all the strange and somewhat arbitrary-seeming pixel aspect ratios that can be set in an MPG1 video file? The only ones valid for VCD and DVD are those corresponding to 4:3 and 16:9 modes for each of PAL and NTSC. However, there also exists not only a computer-targeted-footage friendly 1:1 ratio, but nine other options, that run to wider than PAL 16:9 (otherwise the widest), narrower than NTSC 4:3 (otherwise the narrowest), and fill in several intermediate points besides. None of them seem at all familiar, I have so far failed to come up with resolutions and/or frame aspect ratios where they make sense (especially not in the sub-400x300 range that they're presumably intended for, though I'm open to any alternative setting up to 4096 x whatever), and there is ab. so. lute. ly nothing about it on the rest of the web that I can find. My one recourse might be to buy a copy of the ISO standard, but it's not beyond the realm of imagination that even that may be barren (though the listed numbers must have come from SOMEWHERE!). They're not just the wild imaginings of some random video professional trying to troll his rivals via the internet by bulking out the list - that particular stat is contained in a 4-bit field (16 entries), and the "useful" options are distributed through it and the unusual ones in a non-uniform manner, and unless you set the correct 4-bit code for those values, your video isn't gonna work right.
All but four options (plus a carried-over "forbidden" and "reserved") exist in MPG2 - 1:1 pixels, plus 4:3, 16:9 and 2.21:1 frame - packed up against the head of the table with all the others having been quietly dropped (and only 1:1 in the same position as before), and decoders expected to infer PAL/NTSC from the input resolution and framerate in order to both set the key features of the output signal and, if necessary, reformat the images contained within according to that and the aspect tag. (Somehow video-capable machines were not considered capable of that remarkably simple piece of truth-table navigation two years earlier!)
So presumably they were considered potentially useful for video conferencing and general-purpose progressive digital video encoding, but of no interest as far as high quality conversion of interlaced televisual content to the digital domain for optical disc and VOD delivery to consumers... strange-o.
...seriously, anyone got ANY pointers here? It's a completely pointless question and useless knowledge, but the insatiable geek within me won't rest until it gets its question answered... 193.63.174.254 ( talk) 19:47, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
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Introducing what may be the single largest diff in Wikipedia history... I was tempted to mark it "minor" just for the pure irony.
I wrote this article myself, entirely from scratch. It was easier than trying to fix all the existing (inaccurate, disorganized and poorly written) ones, and has given rather good end results. I have done my best to make this article approachable, and explain even highly technical issues in a simple fashion, while not hand-waving away the actual, functional details, and thereby making it useless. If you find anything difficult to understand, please be very SPECIFIC about exactly what, and I'll try to address it.
Although it is long, I strongly discourage splitting it: The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Independent articles always end up more generalized, do not make the relationship to the whole nearly as clear, and lower readability simply by virtue of forcing readers to switch to sub-articles, and come back, over and over again. MPEG-1 is also low traffic enough that more eyes in one place should significantly improve article quality.
And please edit carefully. Hopefully this article can maintain a decent level of quality and accuracy, unlike just about every other multimedia article here on WP. I can't watch it forever, so ultimately, it will deteriorate to whatever level of quality all of you are willing to accept. Good luck. Try not to tear it to shreds. Rcooley ( talk) 21:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
The article had claimed that MPEG-1 could be used without any patents licensing fees. However, Dave Singer's post
[1] claimed that it might still be patented. Since
MPEG-2 is still patented, there is a list of patents that it uses, and it is a superset of MPEG-1, if we can show that none of the patents that it still has are relevant for MPEG-1, then we have demonstrated that MPEG-1 is not patented. There are three ways to do this:
I have been working on adding the filing date and granting date for all the patents in the MPEGLA's MPEG-2 portfolio to the MPEG-2 article. It is looking like number 1 is not going to be true (since it would have to have been granted by 1991, which means it would have to have been filed by about 1989). However, there is still hope for 2 or 3. Jrincayc ( talk) 15:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
List of
MPEG-2 patents that were filed by August of 1994, since that is one year after the MPEG-1 standard was published. These may be applicable to MPEG-1.
Jrincayc (
talk) 04:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Note that wikipedia does not give legal advice, so consult a patent lawyer if you really need answers. Patents that probably do not apply to MPEG-1 are Struck out and patents that probably do apply to MPEG-1 are bold. Always give a reason if marking a patent. Data here is only as valid as the reason given. Refiled patents are included if they were initially filed by August 1994. Patents are also can be marked as to whether they are Video or Audio and whether they are for Encoding, Decoding or both. Please jump in and add reason why patents do or don't apply to MPEG-1.
This is a minor issue, but the parenthesis within the statement "each pair of (red and blue) chroma blocks" is confusing. Although green is the closest of the RGB colours to luminance, I think that to suggest that chroma represents red and blue is misleading. Unless, that is, I have misunderstood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.37.33.46 ( talk) 10:02, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
These are all the US patents listed on http://www.ip.philips.com/services/?module=IpsLicenseProgram&command=View&id=52&part=4 as a table. Jrincayc ( talk) 14:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Patent | Filed | Granted | Expiration | Summary | Notes | Company |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
5068846 | 23 apr 1988 | 26 nov 1991 | 23 apr 2008 | Reflective optical record carrier | [83] | Philips |
4977550 | 22 dec 1988 | 11 dec 1990 | 6 may 2003 | Disc playback apparatus for playback of music and digital data | [84] | Sony |
5113255 | 11 may 1990 | 12 may 1992 | 11 may 2010 | Moving image signal encoding apparatus and decoding apparatus | [85] | Panasonic |
5223949 | 17 apr 1992 | 29 jun 1993 | 17 apr 2012 | Coding means for a signal processing system | [86] | Panasonic |
5128758 | 02 jun 1989 | 07 jul 1992 | 02 jun 2009 | Method and apparatus for digitally processing a high definition television augmentation signal | [87] | Philips |
5179442 | 26 nov 1990 | 12 jan 1993 | 26 nov 2010 | Method and apparatus for digitally processing a high definition television augmentation signal | [88] | Philips |
5991715 | 31 aug 1995 | 23 nov 1999 | 31 aug 2015 | Perceptual audio signal subband coding using value classes for successive scale factor differences | [89] | Institut für Rundfunktechnik |
5323396 | 21 dec 1992 | 21 jun 1994 | 21 dec 2012 | Digital transmission system, transmitter and receiver for use in the transmission system | [90] | Philips |
5777992 | 07 jun 1995 | 07 jul 1998 | 07 jun 2015 | Decoder for decoding and encoded digital signal and a receiver comprising the decoder | [91] | Philips |
5539829 | 07 jun 1995 | 23 jul 1996 | 07 jun 2015 | Subband coded digital transmission system using some composite signals | [92] | Philips |
7209565 | 23 dec 2003 | 24 apr 2007 | 23 dec 2023 | Decoding of an encoded wideband digital audio signal in a transmission system for transmitting and receiving such signal | [93] | Philips |
5745641 | 28 nov 1995 | 28 apr 1998 | 28 nov 2015 | Full-motion video disc with reference information for slow-motion or freeze playback | [94] | Philips |
5606539 | 31 aug 1994 | 25 feb 1997 | 31 aug 2014 | Method and apparatus for encoding and decoding an audio and/or video signal, and a record carrier for use with such apparatus | [95] | Philips |
5844867 | 09 sep 1996 | 01 dec 1998 | 09 sep 2016 | Methods and apparatus for encoding and decoding an audio and/or video signal, and a record carrier used therewith or produced therefrom | [96] | Philips |
5214678 | 31 may 1990 | 25 may 1993 | 31 may 2010 | Digital transmission system using subband coding of a digital signal | [97] | No recorded assignee |
RE37222 | 12 oct 1990 | 21 jul 1992 | 12 oct 2010 | Video signal transmitting system | Reissue of 05132792 filed 19 jul 1994 granted 12 jun 2001 [98] | Sony |
5191436 | 30 apr 1991 | 02 mar 1993 | 30 apr 2011 | Method for recording coded motion picture data | [99] | Sony |
5291486 | 07 aug 1992 | 01 mar 1994 | 07 aug 2012 | Data multiplexing apparatus and multiplexed data demultiplexing apparatus | [100] | Sony |
RE34965 | 18 jan 1990 | 15 jan 1991 | 18 jan 2010 | Inter-frame predictive encoding system with encoded and transmitted prediction error | Reissue of 04985768 filed 14 jan 1993 granted 13 jun 1995 [101] | JVC |
RE35158 | 26 apr 1990 | 01 jan 1991 | 26 apr 2010 | Apparatus for adaptive inter-frame predictive encoding of video signal | Reissue of 04982285 filed 28 dec 1992 granted 20 feb 1996 [102] | JVC |
I am trying to understand the MPEG-1 synthesis windows and I found a mention of this reference: S. Searing, "Suggested Formulas for Audio Analysis and Synthesis Windows", ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29/WG11 MPEG 91/328, November 1991. However, I have not been able to find a way to get a hold of this. A couple google searches as well as worldcat that I tried have only turned up the book that I found the reference in, and nothing on the original paper. I also tried searching at both iso and iec, and could not find it though maybe I am searching for it incorrectly there. Any ideas? Thanks. Jrincayc ( talk) 13:19, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Achieving much higher compression is simply not possible without discarding some perceptible information.
That seems ulikely to be true, as AAC archives much higher compression.
The reason for this disparity with both earlier and later tests is not clear, but strangely, a sample of applause is notably absent from this test.
The rason seems to be obvious - the first test tested matrix encoded two channel MP2 vs full six channel audio other formats. That gave large advantage to MP2. It's so obvious actually I would say that the test was intentionally biased in favor of MP2.
-- 90.179.235.249 ( talk) 12:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:38, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Something that I haven't been able to find any further information on, after coming across some DVD / VCD encoding header tables on an external page (whilst looking for info about where the MPG2 field order flag is hidden ... still hunting that as well!) - what's the deal with all the strange and somewhat arbitrary-seeming pixel aspect ratios that can be set in an MPG1 video file? The only ones valid for VCD and DVD are those corresponding to 4:3 and 16:9 modes for each of PAL and NTSC. However, there also exists not only a computer-targeted-footage friendly 1:1 ratio, but nine other options, that run to wider than PAL 16:9 (otherwise the widest), narrower than NTSC 4:3 (otherwise the narrowest), and fill in several intermediate points besides. None of them seem at all familiar, I have so far failed to come up with resolutions and/or frame aspect ratios where they make sense (especially not in the sub-400x300 range that they're presumably intended for, though I'm open to any alternative setting up to 4096 x whatever), and there is ab. so. lute. ly nothing about it on the rest of the web that I can find. My one recourse might be to buy a copy of the ISO standard, but it's not beyond the realm of imagination that even that may be barren (though the listed numbers must have come from SOMEWHERE!). They're not just the wild imaginings of some random video professional trying to troll his rivals via the internet by bulking out the list - that particular stat is contained in a 4-bit field (16 entries), and the "useful" options are distributed through it and the unusual ones in a non-uniform manner, and unless you set the correct 4-bit code for those values, your video isn't gonna work right.
All but four options (plus a carried-over "forbidden" and "reserved") exist in MPG2 - 1:1 pixels, plus 4:3, 16:9 and 2.21:1 frame - packed up against the head of the table with all the others having been quietly dropped (and only 1:1 in the same position as before), and decoders expected to infer PAL/NTSC from the input resolution and framerate in order to both set the key features of the output signal and, if necessary, reformat the images contained within according to that and the aspect tag. (Somehow video-capable machines were not considered capable of that remarkably simple piece of truth-table navigation two years earlier!)
So presumably they were considered potentially useful for video conferencing and general-purpose progressive digital video encoding, but of no interest as far as high quality conversion of interlaced televisual content to the digital domain for optical disc and VOD delivery to consumers... strange-o.
...seriously, anyone got ANY pointers here? It's a completely pointless question and useless knowledge, but the insatiable geek within me won't rest until it gets its question answered... 193.63.174.254 ( talk) 19:47, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
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