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I'm surprised there's no history section. It seems like that should be the foundation of an article which is, after all, about the profession/art of a luthier. How it is now it just kind of tells you what a luthier is in the briefest terms then lists a bunch of brand names... Not encyclopedic at all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.201.251 ( talk) 23:29, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
History aside, where is there a discussion of luthiers using 3D Printers / Additive manufacturing to make a modern instrument sound like a Stradivarius? https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/3d-printed-violin-stradivarius/ -- What do I need to do to submit a section? DroneResonance ( talk) 14:37, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
The "old italian" violin makers should have a distinctint mention.. actually they invented the instrument, they set up a method of building it, shape and measure that remained unchanged until today. At least Stradivarius and Amati. To be honest, how can you mention Scott Cao and not at leat 100 violin makers that worked or that are working in Cremona, North Italy, today? And how can you mantion Scott Cao and not mention for example MAggini (XVII century), school of Brescia, or Poggi (school of Bologna, last century)...whose violin are evaluated several hundres of thousand euros.. I have nothing against Cao, he is an example... the problem is that we have always to mention somebody from nowadays (better if american), even if he not really deserved it. Pierpaolo Dondio
This page is innaccurate. It provides a definition that isn't specific enough, and then lists people that only make certain types of stringed instruments as luthiers. Someone who only makes guitars, or who only makes violin family instruments or otherwise are not luthiers. A luthier is a crafstman capable of making any stringed instrument whatsoever. Even pianos, which are not bowed or plucked(Unless you're playing 'Banshee'). The word 'luthier' comes from 'Lute'. The first stringed instrument. Someone who only makes guitars is a guitar maker, not a luthier. A luthier is required to know how to make every stringed instrument, or intend to learn how to be an apprenticing luthier. Phillip and David Petillo are examples, while guitars are their most requested instrument, and they make them for many famous musicians, they are capable of and do infact make stringed instruments of all kinds. They've been requested to do repair work on Napolean's Harp(although that's actually for the marquetry, they're marquetrarians as well) and at the moment have in their shop an upright bass that they are repairing made by Stradivarius's sole apprentice. So this definition and list of luthiers both need to be revised as people who are capable of making all types of stringed instruments. - Uvirith
No one accuses numerous people of false advertising, I know a gentleman who makes guitars whose advertising document calls his guitars more rare than a stradivarius, because he hasn't made as many guitars as Antonio Stradivari has made violins. There is little system of authority in the artisan fields, but the definition is simply one who can make all stringed instruments. I'm aware of wikipedia's purpose, and as such, the revision should be that the actual definition is someone who has skills in making every stringed instrument, but a common usage is an all-encompassing term, however, the article should contain a decent respect to its origional definition. - Uvirith
Most dictionary entries agree with the Shorter Oxford, including Webster and Britannica. Luthier is an all-encompassing term especially in English although it does not refer to anything other than stringed instruments. A luthier does not make pianos nor French horns.
In common practice, the term luthier is used to generically describe anyone who makes scraped(bowed)or plucked stringed instrument. That is the only requirement that has ever been intimated to me. After identifying oneself as a luthier in general, the maker may then indicate a particular specialty such as violin-maker or guitar-maker. Equate it, if you will, to the genus being "Luthier" and the species being a more exact description of the maker, in my case - violin-maker/restorer. In fact, because the stringed-instrument industry is completely unregulated by any group, office, government edict, or official body, it is only necessary for someone to build one stringed instrument before lawfully declaring themselves a luthier and they need not learn their craft through apprenticeship or other schooling. Additionally, the French pronunciation of luthier is often perceived as arrogant or condescending among luthiers and so the English pronunciation is the more common. Himmelmann00 18:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
After re-reading the article, I have some misgivings about listing any particular makers as iconic 20th century bowed-instrument makers. I may be nitpicking, but I think we are too close to the last century and that there were and are too many qualified makers to call attention to a handful whose instruments, while probably deserving of the accolade, have yet to stand the dual tests of time and popular demand. In fifty or a hundred years, we will have gained a truer perspective of the contributions of the 20th century makers. Himmelmann00 18:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Himmelmann's comments are quite acurate. In actual practice the trade of lutherie tends toward specialisation. Uveriths comment reflects a particular bias within the lutherie community, not the reality of a luthiers work. It is very complex field, after all even the division into two main disciplines, while informative, is fairly arbitrary (a hurdygurdy is not "bowed" in the ordinary sense and double bass is often plucked). It would be worth changing the article as Himmelman suggests to at least make it clear that luthiers are not piano makers. Darrell Wheeler 11:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)darrell wheeler
I just re-organized the long list of external links, placing maker's sites & sites that sell supplies to luthiers last. If no one objects, or if no one does it first, I will shortly remove all the maker's sites & supplies links, as they are really just a sort of advertisement and not encyclopedic information. J Lorraine 06:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I just did a major edit to this article which can be summarized as:
Still remaining:
Mbartruff 04:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I have been writing an article for the Wiki about the English luthier, John Birch. It can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Paulkstadden/article. I have had to do a lot of correspondence to get the necessary info, but the Wiki has strict rules about original research. I have posted the email correspondence here, at http://thepaulforum.blogspot.com, but this may not be enough. All the books I've ever seen give the same information, that he was an English luthier who made guitars for celebrities. Does anyone have any magazine interviews or any books that give him more than a passing glance? Thanks, Paulkstadden 04:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
This article appears to consist primarily of lists. I'm not sure what to do about that, but it does seem to be a problem. Dfeuer 01:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Luthier is the maker of the instrument. What do we call the maker of the strings? I know there is a word for this but can't find it. Anyone? Kaiwhakahaere ( talk) 03:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
This page needs a lot of work. I think it should be a basic definition of what a luthier is (if we can agree on one), and then link to seperate pages with the History of Violin Making, History of Guitar and Lute Making etc. and link to the already existing lists of makers (i.e. }}[[Category:Luthiers]]}}). This page also needs careful watching to prevent self interested makers popping themselves in there. I am tempted to delete not just the links in this list but the entire articles, for example, of Jim Fleeting, Francesco Bissolotti, Dean Zelinsky, Douglas Cox, Vasile Gliga, Johann Goldfuss, Stefan-Peter Greiner, Jonathan Beecher. Robert Nelson and Richard Alexander and Harry Dean are links to lists of people with that name, none of whom seem to be luthiers of note. Chickpeana ( talk) 18:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
How would people feel about break out a lot of the lists into an article called List of Luthiers? RJFJR ( talk) 17:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
See this diff.
In my experience, "luthier" is commonly used in written English, hence the large number of Google hits. When someone says "luthier" out loud, usually with an anglicized pronunciation, I take it as a sign that they have done more reading than talking about it. From people who know their way around the business, I am more accustomed to hearing "violin maker" or simply "maker" or "builder" or, in the sense of one who repairs or restores such instruments, "repairman." It seems to me that the following statement is true but unverifiable:
even instrument makers don't use "luthier"
Having said that, I would be overjoyed to see a reliable source to confirm it. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 17:39, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree that "luthier" is much less commonly used than "maker" or "violin maker" in spoken US English. (Same applies to describing builders of other string instruments.) With that said, I am not sure that this "truth with skimpy sourcing" is weighty enough to be mentioned in the lead paragraph. Absence from a dictionary can hardly be considered a reliable source.
When I hear someone who does not "know their way around the business" use the word, it is usually not a precious affectation, but a good-faith attempt to be accurate, based on the prevalence of "get thee to a luthier" type advice seen in online fora. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 01:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Here. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 21:44, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
LUTHIERY is the established spelling — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.82.192 ( talk) 19:16, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: RESULT. It was a small mistake + confusing and not moving it to Luthier (woodworking), the disambig is created instead as of Andy Dingley saids it. DigiPen92 ( talk) 05:02, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Luthier →
Luthier (woodworking) – I totally think that this page needs to be moved since there is about three other Luthiers existed:
Luthier (horse),
Les Luthiers, and the playable mage character from
Fire Emblem Gaiden in Alm's route named "Luthier" that he reappears in
Fire Emblem: Awakening on the Gaiden SpotPass and a few DLC chapter such as Lostbloodline 2 (which he wasn't added in Wikipedia yet).
DigiPen92 (
talk)
22:10, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
First sentence: "A luthier (/ˈluːtiər/ LOO-ti-ər)[1] is someone who makes or repairs string instruments (except harps)."
I don't have the knowledge required to say whether that's right, but if it is... what's someone who makes harps called? A brief mention, or at least a "See also" link would be very handy. 86.150.147.176 ( talk) 23:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
A luthier ( /ˈluːtiər/ LOO-ti-ər) [1] is someone who makes or repairs string instruments generally consisting of a neck and a soundbox, but excluding instruments such as harps and pianos, where strings are secured to a frame, and which require different skills and methods of construction.
References
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I'm surprised there's no history section. It seems like that should be the foundation of an article which is, after all, about the profession/art of a luthier. How it is now it just kind of tells you what a luthier is in the briefest terms then lists a bunch of brand names... Not encyclopedic at all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.201.251 ( talk) 23:29, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
History aside, where is there a discussion of luthiers using 3D Printers / Additive manufacturing to make a modern instrument sound like a Stradivarius? https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/3d-printed-violin-stradivarius/ -- What do I need to do to submit a section? DroneResonance ( talk) 14:37, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
The "old italian" violin makers should have a distinctint mention.. actually they invented the instrument, they set up a method of building it, shape and measure that remained unchanged until today. At least Stradivarius and Amati. To be honest, how can you mention Scott Cao and not at leat 100 violin makers that worked or that are working in Cremona, North Italy, today? And how can you mantion Scott Cao and not mention for example MAggini (XVII century), school of Brescia, or Poggi (school of Bologna, last century)...whose violin are evaluated several hundres of thousand euros.. I have nothing against Cao, he is an example... the problem is that we have always to mention somebody from nowadays (better if american), even if he not really deserved it. Pierpaolo Dondio
This page is innaccurate. It provides a definition that isn't specific enough, and then lists people that only make certain types of stringed instruments as luthiers. Someone who only makes guitars, or who only makes violin family instruments or otherwise are not luthiers. A luthier is a crafstman capable of making any stringed instrument whatsoever. Even pianos, which are not bowed or plucked(Unless you're playing 'Banshee'). The word 'luthier' comes from 'Lute'. The first stringed instrument. Someone who only makes guitars is a guitar maker, not a luthier. A luthier is required to know how to make every stringed instrument, or intend to learn how to be an apprenticing luthier. Phillip and David Petillo are examples, while guitars are their most requested instrument, and they make them for many famous musicians, they are capable of and do infact make stringed instruments of all kinds. They've been requested to do repair work on Napolean's Harp(although that's actually for the marquetry, they're marquetrarians as well) and at the moment have in their shop an upright bass that they are repairing made by Stradivarius's sole apprentice. So this definition and list of luthiers both need to be revised as people who are capable of making all types of stringed instruments. - Uvirith
No one accuses numerous people of false advertising, I know a gentleman who makes guitars whose advertising document calls his guitars more rare than a stradivarius, because he hasn't made as many guitars as Antonio Stradivari has made violins. There is little system of authority in the artisan fields, but the definition is simply one who can make all stringed instruments. I'm aware of wikipedia's purpose, and as such, the revision should be that the actual definition is someone who has skills in making every stringed instrument, but a common usage is an all-encompassing term, however, the article should contain a decent respect to its origional definition. - Uvirith
Most dictionary entries agree with the Shorter Oxford, including Webster and Britannica. Luthier is an all-encompassing term especially in English although it does not refer to anything other than stringed instruments. A luthier does not make pianos nor French horns.
In common practice, the term luthier is used to generically describe anyone who makes scraped(bowed)or plucked stringed instrument. That is the only requirement that has ever been intimated to me. After identifying oneself as a luthier in general, the maker may then indicate a particular specialty such as violin-maker or guitar-maker. Equate it, if you will, to the genus being "Luthier" and the species being a more exact description of the maker, in my case - violin-maker/restorer. In fact, because the stringed-instrument industry is completely unregulated by any group, office, government edict, or official body, it is only necessary for someone to build one stringed instrument before lawfully declaring themselves a luthier and they need not learn their craft through apprenticeship or other schooling. Additionally, the French pronunciation of luthier is often perceived as arrogant or condescending among luthiers and so the English pronunciation is the more common. Himmelmann00 18:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
After re-reading the article, I have some misgivings about listing any particular makers as iconic 20th century bowed-instrument makers. I may be nitpicking, but I think we are too close to the last century and that there were and are too many qualified makers to call attention to a handful whose instruments, while probably deserving of the accolade, have yet to stand the dual tests of time and popular demand. In fifty or a hundred years, we will have gained a truer perspective of the contributions of the 20th century makers. Himmelmann00 18:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Himmelmann's comments are quite acurate. In actual practice the trade of lutherie tends toward specialisation. Uveriths comment reflects a particular bias within the lutherie community, not the reality of a luthiers work. It is very complex field, after all even the division into two main disciplines, while informative, is fairly arbitrary (a hurdygurdy is not "bowed" in the ordinary sense and double bass is often plucked). It would be worth changing the article as Himmelman suggests to at least make it clear that luthiers are not piano makers. Darrell Wheeler 11:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)darrell wheeler
I just re-organized the long list of external links, placing maker's sites & sites that sell supplies to luthiers last. If no one objects, or if no one does it first, I will shortly remove all the maker's sites & supplies links, as they are really just a sort of advertisement and not encyclopedic information. J Lorraine 06:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I just did a major edit to this article which can be summarized as:
Still remaining:
Mbartruff 04:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I have been writing an article for the Wiki about the English luthier, John Birch. It can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Paulkstadden/article. I have had to do a lot of correspondence to get the necessary info, but the Wiki has strict rules about original research. I have posted the email correspondence here, at http://thepaulforum.blogspot.com, but this may not be enough. All the books I've ever seen give the same information, that he was an English luthier who made guitars for celebrities. Does anyone have any magazine interviews or any books that give him more than a passing glance? Thanks, Paulkstadden 04:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
This article appears to consist primarily of lists. I'm not sure what to do about that, but it does seem to be a problem. Dfeuer 01:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Luthier is the maker of the instrument. What do we call the maker of the strings? I know there is a word for this but can't find it. Anyone? Kaiwhakahaere ( talk) 03:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
This page needs a lot of work. I think it should be a basic definition of what a luthier is (if we can agree on one), and then link to seperate pages with the History of Violin Making, History of Guitar and Lute Making etc. and link to the already existing lists of makers (i.e. }}[[Category:Luthiers]]}}). This page also needs careful watching to prevent self interested makers popping themselves in there. I am tempted to delete not just the links in this list but the entire articles, for example, of Jim Fleeting, Francesco Bissolotti, Dean Zelinsky, Douglas Cox, Vasile Gliga, Johann Goldfuss, Stefan-Peter Greiner, Jonathan Beecher. Robert Nelson and Richard Alexander and Harry Dean are links to lists of people with that name, none of whom seem to be luthiers of note. Chickpeana ( talk) 18:19, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
How would people feel about break out a lot of the lists into an article called List of Luthiers? RJFJR ( talk) 17:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
See this diff.
In my experience, "luthier" is commonly used in written English, hence the large number of Google hits. When someone says "luthier" out loud, usually with an anglicized pronunciation, I take it as a sign that they have done more reading than talking about it. From people who know their way around the business, I am more accustomed to hearing "violin maker" or simply "maker" or "builder" or, in the sense of one who repairs or restores such instruments, "repairman." It seems to me that the following statement is true but unverifiable:
even instrument makers don't use "luthier"
Having said that, I would be overjoyed to see a reliable source to confirm it. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 17:39, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree that "luthier" is much less commonly used than "maker" or "violin maker" in spoken US English. (Same applies to describing builders of other string instruments.) With that said, I am not sure that this "truth with skimpy sourcing" is weighty enough to be mentioned in the lead paragraph. Absence from a dictionary can hardly be considered a reliable source.
When I hear someone who does not "know their way around the business" use the word, it is usually not a precious affectation, but a good-faith attempt to be accurate, based on the prevalence of "get thee to a luthier" type advice seen in online fora. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 01:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Here. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 21:44, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
LUTHIERY is the established spelling — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.169.82.192 ( talk) 19:16, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: RESULT. It was a small mistake + confusing and not moving it to Luthier (woodworking), the disambig is created instead as of Andy Dingley saids it. DigiPen92 ( talk) 05:02, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Luthier →
Luthier (woodworking) – I totally think that this page needs to be moved since there is about three other Luthiers existed:
Luthier (horse),
Les Luthiers, and the playable mage character from
Fire Emblem Gaiden in Alm's route named "Luthier" that he reappears in
Fire Emblem: Awakening on the Gaiden SpotPass and a few DLC chapter such as Lostbloodline 2 (which he wasn't added in Wikipedia yet).
DigiPen92 (
talk)
22:10, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
First sentence: "A luthier (/ˈluːtiər/ LOO-ti-ər)[1] is someone who makes or repairs string instruments (except harps)."
I don't have the knowledge required to say whether that's right, but if it is... what's someone who makes harps called? A brief mention, or at least a "See also" link would be very handy. 86.150.147.176 ( talk) 23:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
A luthier ( /ˈluːtiər/ LOO-ti-ər) [1] is someone who makes or repairs string instruments generally consisting of a neck and a soundbox, but excluding instruments such as harps and pianos, where strings are secured to a frame, and which require different skills and methods of construction.
References
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Anacasb ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Anacasb ( talk) 14:23, 31 October 2022 (UTC)