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His true name was Giulio Cesare Vanini. cf. Raimondi and all the others contemprary biographers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.199.243.72 ( talk) 17:49, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
This article says: "Vanini was a polygenist, who argued that Africans are descended from apes because of their skin colour, while other races are not. In his book De Admirandis Naturae Reginae Deaeque Mortalium Arcanis (1616), he wrote that only the Negro descends from the monkey and that there are lower and higher levels within humanity (a race hierarchy); he also reported in the book that other atheists supported this position as opposed to the theory of monogenism". This I can however not read from the two given references:
Encyclopaedia Britannica ( vol 27, p 894) from which most of the remaining text in the article is taken (though somewhat modified) says nothing on the subject.
In Readings In Early Anthropology p. 80 by James Sydney Slotkin (not used as reference of this article, but given by Popkin above) there is a translation:
Lucilio Vanini (1585 - 1619) put the following words into the mouth of one of the speakers in a dialogue:
Others have dreamed that the first man has taken his origin from mud, putrified by the corruption of certain monkeys, swine, and frogs, and thence (they say) proceeds the great resemblance there is betwixt our flesh and propensions, and that of those creatures. Other atheists, more mild, have thought that none but the Ethipians [sic!] are produced from a race of monkeys, because the same degree of heat is found in both... Atheists cry out to us continually, that the first men went upon all four as other beasts, and 'tis by education only they have changed this custom, which, nevertheless, in their old age, returns to them.
The original text can probably be found somewhere among the 500 pages of De Admirandis Naturae Reginae Deaeque Mortalium Arcanis, but it doesn't seem to me worth the effort to scan through 500 pages of Latin for a quote that obviously is quite insignificant, perhaps not even expresses the view of the author and doubtfully belongs in the article.
-- Episcophagus ( talk) 22:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
if anyone is interested, here an explanation of Vanini's thinking on this topic without the need to read 500 pages of Latin: SMITH, 'Nature, Human Nature, and Human Difference: Race in Early Modern Philosophy'-- 188.153.133.7 ( talk) 14:10, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
I.C. Alij somniarunt ex simiarum, porcorum & ranarum putredine genitum primum hominem, ijs enim est in carne, moribusque persimilis. Quidam vero mitiores athaei, solos Aethiopes ex simiarum genere & semine prodiisse attestantur, quia & color idem in verisque conspicitur. Alex. Miror profecto cur ex ipsa hominus rectitudine non agnoscant prae excellentiorum in homine quam in brutis originem.
I.C. Imo primaeuos homines curuos quemadmodum quadrupes ambulasse Athaei vociferantur, nam & cu consenescunt fieri vt veluti quadrupes incedant, industria igitur factum esse asserunt vt pueruli compressis brachijs colligetur. Alex. Percuperum huius rei experimentum videre, an puer recens natus inter nemora quadrupes euaderet: sed missa hoc faciamus Athaeorum deliria & fides sit penes praescripta religionis. Sed cur factus est homo. I.C. Sic olim concionando hanc quaestionem resolui, vt nempe aliquid esset quod intercessione sua summis ima coapter et. Alex. id autem quomodo sit?
I have expanded this page by putting the Italian language version of the page through Google Translate, correcting the translation as far as I can (as a non-Italian-speaker), and weaving the result into the pre-existing article. What do you think? Here's what I think; deficiencies:
This Vanini guy is interesting – another Galileo or Descartes? – maybe not so important, but needs to be better understood in the English-speaking world – hence my efforts! AWhiteC ( talk) 00:02, 26 November 2014 (UTC) – updated on 26 and 27 November 2014
P.S. Has anybody out there got an English-language biography of Vanini, or English translations of his two works, especially the De Admirandis? AWhiteC ( talk) 10:48, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
P.P.S. There is a gap in the biography between 1606 (or maybe 1608) and 1611, which seems to have been the period when Vanini picked up his radical ideas. If you know more about this, please add it in, or discuss here.
AWhiteC (
talk)
13:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
From the text, it seems that while he certainly opposed Abrahamic religions, he wasn't an atheist proper. -- 181.115.110.141 ( talk) 18:59, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
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His true name was Giulio Cesare Vanini. cf. Raimondi and all the others contemprary biographers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.199.243.72 ( talk) 17:49, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
This article says: "Vanini was a polygenist, who argued that Africans are descended from apes because of their skin colour, while other races are not. In his book De Admirandis Naturae Reginae Deaeque Mortalium Arcanis (1616), he wrote that only the Negro descends from the monkey and that there are lower and higher levels within humanity (a race hierarchy); he also reported in the book that other atheists supported this position as opposed to the theory of monogenism". This I can however not read from the two given references:
Encyclopaedia Britannica ( vol 27, p 894) from which most of the remaining text in the article is taken (though somewhat modified) says nothing on the subject.
In Readings In Early Anthropology p. 80 by James Sydney Slotkin (not used as reference of this article, but given by Popkin above) there is a translation:
Lucilio Vanini (1585 - 1619) put the following words into the mouth of one of the speakers in a dialogue:
Others have dreamed that the first man has taken his origin from mud, putrified by the corruption of certain monkeys, swine, and frogs, and thence (they say) proceeds the great resemblance there is betwixt our flesh and propensions, and that of those creatures. Other atheists, more mild, have thought that none but the Ethipians [sic!] are produced from a race of monkeys, because the same degree of heat is found in both... Atheists cry out to us continually, that the first men went upon all four as other beasts, and 'tis by education only they have changed this custom, which, nevertheless, in their old age, returns to them.
The original text can probably be found somewhere among the 500 pages of De Admirandis Naturae Reginae Deaeque Mortalium Arcanis, but it doesn't seem to me worth the effort to scan through 500 pages of Latin for a quote that obviously is quite insignificant, perhaps not even expresses the view of the author and doubtfully belongs in the article.
-- Episcophagus ( talk) 22:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
if anyone is interested, here an explanation of Vanini's thinking on this topic without the need to read 500 pages of Latin: SMITH, 'Nature, Human Nature, and Human Difference: Race in Early Modern Philosophy'-- 188.153.133.7 ( talk) 14:10, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
I.C. Alij somniarunt ex simiarum, porcorum & ranarum putredine genitum primum hominem, ijs enim est in carne, moribusque persimilis. Quidam vero mitiores athaei, solos Aethiopes ex simiarum genere & semine prodiisse attestantur, quia & color idem in verisque conspicitur. Alex. Miror profecto cur ex ipsa hominus rectitudine non agnoscant prae excellentiorum in homine quam in brutis originem.
I.C. Imo primaeuos homines curuos quemadmodum quadrupes ambulasse Athaei vociferantur, nam & cu consenescunt fieri vt veluti quadrupes incedant, industria igitur factum esse asserunt vt pueruli compressis brachijs colligetur. Alex. Percuperum huius rei experimentum videre, an puer recens natus inter nemora quadrupes euaderet: sed missa hoc faciamus Athaeorum deliria & fides sit penes praescripta religionis. Sed cur factus est homo. I.C. Sic olim concionando hanc quaestionem resolui, vt nempe aliquid esset quod intercessione sua summis ima coapter et. Alex. id autem quomodo sit?
I have expanded this page by putting the Italian language version of the page through Google Translate, correcting the translation as far as I can (as a non-Italian-speaker), and weaving the result into the pre-existing article. What do you think? Here's what I think; deficiencies:
This Vanini guy is interesting – another Galileo or Descartes? – maybe not so important, but needs to be better understood in the English-speaking world – hence my efforts! AWhiteC ( talk) 00:02, 26 November 2014 (UTC) – updated on 26 and 27 November 2014
P.S. Has anybody out there got an English-language biography of Vanini, or English translations of his two works, especially the De Admirandis? AWhiteC ( talk) 10:48, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
P.P.S. There is a gap in the biography between 1606 (or maybe 1608) and 1611, which seems to have been the period when Vanini picked up his radical ideas. If you know more about this, please add it in, or discuss here.
AWhiteC (
talk)
13:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
From the text, it seems that while he certainly opposed Abrahamic religions, he wasn't an atheist proper. -- 181.115.110.141 ( talk) 18:59, 15 August 2018 (UTC)