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![]() | On 25 April 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Love on Top. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
The result of the move request was: Move unopposed, rough consensus (non-admin closure) — Andy W. ( talk · ctb) 21:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Love on Top → Love On Top – Similar to the ongoing request at Talk:Dancing on My Own, and per MOS:CAPS, "on" in this case is not used specifically as a preposition, but as part of a compound adjective " on top". — Amakuru ( talk) 20:33, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: no consensus. There does not seem to be a consensus on the part of speech of "on". (
closed by non-admin page mover) ~
Aseleste
(
t,
e |
c,
l)
11:16, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Love On Top → Love on Top – MOS:TITLECAPS ----- FMSky ( talk) 01:33, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
What matters is whether we're dealing with a phrasal verb or a compound preposition, two cases for upper-casing. Here, we have a truncated compound preposition, on top [of] [something/someone]. You can tell when something is a phrasal verb that contains a preposition that has been converted into a phrasal-verb particle and thus gets capitalized, generally by whether or not the meaning has become divorced from the normal prepositional sense(s). E.g., look up and look [it] up in reference to a dictionary or database is a phrasal verb, because the described action has nothing to do with turning ones eyes/head/gaze upward. Here, being on top [of] retains the original senses, both of physical position (the on-top sexual position) and of metaphoric position (also found in "I'm feeling on top of the world"). However, WP also upper-cases the first word of compound prepositions (even if that word is under 5 letters), and we don't have a codified exception to lower-case ones that are truncated. Given this, and the fact that whether it's really an adverbial usage anyway would require detailed lyrics analysis (which should be done very carefully here if at all, for copyright reasons), it should arguably be upper-case, but this really is an edge case, and I would not be terribly opposed to it going the other way. That would be more WP:CONSISTENT.
If we go lower-case, we would need to clarify the MoS rule about this to make the answer clearer next time. It really comes down to whether we, as a community, want to be "fiddly" about such matters, or try to simplify them (in ways that some might find to be over-simplification). I think the latter is the most likely, long-term, because it is easier to apply a rule whether everyone is happy about it or not, than to keep re-litigating the same questions over and over, often with inconsistent results. We've had similar problems with foreign language titles, human job and position and heritable titles, dashes, and several other style matters where MoS had unnecessarily complex rules that have over time simplied but left some people dissatisfied. The overall disruption level of a few being disgruntled versus years of recurrent re-re-re-fighting of the same subjects is pretty obvious math. But it's not enough to make me "demand" lower-case at this time. PS: I will observe that the MoS exception to lower-casing of short "preposition words" when they are part of phrasal verbs, is a long-running and stable one, while the exception for compound prepositions is recent (I think I added it myself, in an attempt to codify the results of several RMs; I don't think it's been subject to an RfC or other more formal "should MoS say X, or say Y, or remain silent on it?" discussion.)
—
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ 😼
06:53, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Love On Top article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Love On Top has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 25 April 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Love on Top. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
The result of the move request was: Move unopposed, rough consensus (non-admin closure) — Andy W. ( talk · ctb) 21:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Love on Top → Love On Top – Similar to the ongoing request at Talk:Dancing on My Own, and per MOS:CAPS, "on" in this case is not used specifically as a preposition, but as part of a compound adjective " on top". — Amakuru ( talk) 20:33, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
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I have just modified 7 external links on Love On Top. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. There does not seem to be a consensus on the part of speech of "on". (
closed by non-admin page mover) ~
Aseleste
(
t,
e |
c,
l)
11:16, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Love On Top → Love on Top – MOS:TITLECAPS ----- FMSky ( talk) 01:33, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
What matters is whether we're dealing with a phrasal verb or a compound preposition, two cases for upper-casing. Here, we have a truncated compound preposition, on top [of] [something/someone]. You can tell when something is a phrasal verb that contains a preposition that has been converted into a phrasal-verb particle and thus gets capitalized, generally by whether or not the meaning has become divorced from the normal prepositional sense(s). E.g., look up and look [it] up in reference to a dictionary or database is a phrasal verb, because the described action has nothing to do with turning ones eyes/head/gaze upward. Here, being on top [of] retains the original senses, both of physical position (the on-top sexual position) and of metaphoric position (also found in "I'm feeling on top of the world"). However, WP also upper-cases the first word of compound prepositions (even if that word is under 5 letters), and we don't have a codified exception to lower-case ones that are truncated. Given this, and the fact that whether it's really an adverbial usage anyway would require detailed lyrics analysis (which should be done very carefully here if at all, for copyright reasons), it should arguably be upper-case, but this really is an edge case, and I would not be terribly opposed to it going the other way. That would be more WP:CONSISTENT.
If we go lower-case, we would need to clarify the MoS rule about this to make the answer clearer next time. It really comes down to whether we, as a community, want to be "fiddly" about such matters, or try to simplify them (in ways that some might find to be over-simplification). I think the latter is the most likely, long-term, because it is easier to apply a rule whether everyone is happy about it or not, than to keep re-litigating the same questions over and over, often with inconsistent results. We've had similar problems with foreign language titles, human job and position and heritable titles, dashes, and several other style matters where MoS had unnecessarily complex rules that have over time simplied but left some people dissatisfied. The overall disruption level of a few being disgruntled versus years of recurrent re-re-re-fighting of the same subjects is pretty obvious math. But it's not enough to make me "demand" lower-case at this time. PS: I will observe that the MoS exception to lower-casing of short "preposition words" when they are part of phrasal verbs, is a long-running and stable one, while the exception for compound prepositions is recent (I think I added it myself, in an attempt to codify the results of several RMs; I don't think it's been subject to an RfC or other more formal "should MoS say X, or say Y, or remain silent on it?" discussion.)
—
SMcCandlish
☏
¢ 😼
06:53, 3 May 2021 (UTC)