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Reviewer: Wetrorave ( talk · contribs) 16:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
From a quick look, here's my opinion:
Good Article review progress box
|
Infobox and lead
- Image nees
|alt=text – NFCC seems fine- Okay
- A possibly better way to summarize The Dream's roles: "American singer, songwriter, and producer" > "American musician"
[a]
- Okay
- "is the debut
album by" – remove
album wikilink
- It should stay as a contextual link to an elementary topic of this article ( MOS:CONTEXTLINK).
- "producer
The-Dream. It was released" > "producer
The-Dream, released"
- I don't find this kind of construction the most sophisticated grammatically.
- "2007, during his" > "2007. With his"
- "
pop music. [line break] The-Dream pursued" > "
pop music, The-Dream pursued" (without the line break)
- That would change the meaning of the sentence by directly connecting his emergence to his musical direction for the album. isento ( talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- "Love/Hate, drawing" > "Love/Hate. The album drew"
- The word works best as an adverb referring to The-Dream and his direction, rather than the album itself, which is more a product of the direction and inspirations than an acting agent. isento ( talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- "native Atlanta. Recording" > "native Atlanta. [line break] Recording"
- "Recording alongside fellow songwriter-producers
Tricky Stewart and Carlos McKinney, he employed" > "Recorded alongside fellow songwriter-producers
Tricky Stewart and
Carlos McKinney, the album employs"
- Okay. isento ( talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- For info on critical reception, add this before the first sentence of the third paragraph:
- That doesn't seem necessary. And I think it's more effective to end the paragraph with views on its lasting significance, mirroring the structure of the body.
isento (
talk)
20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry
isento, I suggested that when I didn't know any better. I was going to write a summary of the reception but then I saw that it's already there (it's fine for it to be at the end of the lead). I must have
forgotten to remove this suggestion, but I guess
it was just a burning memory.
Wetrorave (
talk)
21:38, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Nice lyric reference! I love sharing the things we know and love with those of my kind ... isento ( talk) 03:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry
isento, I suggested that when I didn't know any better. I was going to write a summary of the reception but then I saw that it's already there (it's fine for it to be at the end of the lead). I must have
forgotten to remove this suggestion, but I guess
it was just a burning memory.
Wetrorave (
talk)
21:38, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- That doesn't seem necessary. And I think it's more effective to end the paragraph with views on its lasting significance, mirroring the structure of the body.
isento (
talk)
20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Background
- "As The-Dream recalls, "I called [
Island Def Jam executive] Karen Kwak and I told her I wanted to [...] shit. I figured" > "The-Dream stated he remembers calling
Island Def Jam executive Karen Kwak and telling her he "wanted to [...] shit." The-Dream said: "I figured"
- I've paraphrased much of it instead. "Stated" means to say something clearly and definitely, which phrases like "artist shit" and "figured" do not. isento ( talk) 00:59, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Writing and recording
- "and McKinney[4] – were [...] Angeles.[5]" > "and McKinney – were [...] Angeles.[4][5]"
- WP:CITEFOOT says to place the citation after the adjacent punctuation and close to the material it is supporting. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "approach[6] and wrote some of its songs responding" > "approach,[6] writing some of its songs as a response"
- I've split the clauses into two sentences. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "life, most notably "Nikki", which was inspired" > "life. An example is "Nikki", a track inspired"
- Apparently, whoever added that sentence in the past misused the source. So I've replaced it with something more faithful to the source. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "from past artists" > "from artists" – past is redundant, since there's no way someone can be influenced by a future artist
[b]
- Well, there is also the present, and the sentence mentions "contemporary", so I believe the "past" distinction is still useful. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "elements,[4] as the" > "elements.[4] The" for the sentence not be too large
- I've replaced the period with a semicolon, so the connection remains. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "resolutely luminescent" with" > "resolutely luminescent", with" for readers to have a pause on this sentence
- Done. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Title and packaging
- Change to Title and album cover
- Make this section a level 3 header since it's three/four lines long
- I would prefer to keep as is. As a subsection, it wouldn't belong under any of the other sections, topically. Perhaps I will expand it in the future, actually. isento ( talk) 02:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Actually, it can work also if merged into marketing and sales. isento ( talk) 04:03, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Marketing and sales
- "Around the time of "Bed"'s release," > "Near the release of "Bed","
- Near is defined primarily as proximity, i.e. physical distance, so I think the current phrasing makes it clearer that we are defining a period of time. isento ( talk) 02:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Critical reception
- Ref 25 redirects to Vibe's news page; use
this
- Thanks. Done. isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "year" because of The-Dream's ability to write catchy songs." > "year",opining that The-Dream is a skilled songwriter."
- Well, the critic specifies it's his "tune-sense", tune meaning melody or melodic song, so I've revised it to "The-Dream's instinct for composing melodies". isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "Some reviewers had reservations." – this is a very vague statement; what reservations did they have, and why?
- It's merely a summary and no more or less vague than the album having received acclaim. The subsequent sentences elucidate those reservations. isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "remained impressed by the consistent quality" > "opined that the album has consistent quality"
- I don't want to get too wordy here. I'll just remove "consistent", since that was the only problematic element in stating what she "remained impressed by" as fact. isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Legacy and influence
-
Endash with other dash might be confusing, so "the West–Jay-Z song" > "West's collaboration with Jay-Z"
- That would complicate the remaining structure of the sentence and make a long one even longer. MOS:ENBETWEEN says the dash can be used this way for compound constructions indicating "and". isento ( talk) 02:46, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "proved highly innovative" > "is considered highly innovative"
- The Pitchfork source, cited at the end of the second sentence, verifies it this. And writing "considered ..." without attribution would be weasel-y. There's no reason to doubt the veracity of this statement, with other sources verifying it too ( [1]). isento ( talk) 02:46, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Also, phrasing it in the past tense suits the narrative tone of the section, as events happening after the album. isento ( talk) 03:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Track listing
- Use
Cite AV media notes here per
WP:TRACKLISTING
- Done. isento ( talk) 02:50, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Personnel
- Wikiling the first instance of mastering to
mastering (audio) and engineer to
audio engineer
- Done. And I've expanded/completed the track credits. isento ( talk) 03:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Charts
- Seems fine
Certifications
- Change to Certification since it's only one
- Done. isento ( talk) 03:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
See also
- Fine
References
- Cite SOHH as
|website=or|work=on ref 3 - Use Cite AV media notes rather than Cite web for ref 5, since it seems the intent is to cite the liner notes
- Ref 10 is
|url-access=limitedand not paid, since the NYT does give you some free articles- Done. isento ( talk) 03:53, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Further reading/External links
- Fine
Overall
-
On hold for now; I may not be able to respond in the following hours though.
Wetrorave (
talk)
16:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'll get thru the rest later though.
isento (
talk)
20:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- You seem to have addressed all the issues. The ones you didn't seem fine, since there is a stated reason for not doing each one of them. [c] I'm still not entirely happy with the article not having a combination of the artist's name with the release date separated only by a comma, like other articles do, but 'brilliant' prose is not a requirement of GA so it's not necessary.
- Thanks. I'll get thru the rest later though.
isento (
talk)
20:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
In conclusion, this article is good to go: ✓ Pass. Wetrorave ( talk) 12:52, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- ^ This would also reduce mentions of "songwriter-producer", a term that is mentioned at "prominent songwriter-producer"
- ^ Except if you have a time machine, as I do
- ^ Although relatively advanced, I'm not a native English speaker, which probably makes you more qualified to work on the prose than I do. I still think I'm doing reasonably well on the English Wikipedia with my work on the album portraying the stages of dementia but it's still imperfect.
| GA toolbox |
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| Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
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Article talk (
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Reviewer: Wetrorave ( talk · contribs) 16:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
From a quick look, here's my opinion:
Good Article review progress box
|
Infobox and lead
- Image nees
|alt=text – NFCC seems fine- Okay
- A possibly better way to summarize The Dream's roles: "American singer, songwriter, and producer" > "American musician"
[a]
- Okay
- "is the debut
album by" – remove
album wikilink
- It should stay as a contextual link to an elementary topic of this article ( MOS:CONTEXTLINK).
- "producer
The-Dream. It was released" > "producer
The-Dream, released"
- I don't find this kind of construction the most sophisticated grammatically.
- "2007, during his" > "2007. With his"
- "
pop music. [line break] The-Dream pursued" > "
pop music, The-Dream pursued" (without the line break)
- That would change the meaning of the sentence by directly connecting his emergence to his musical direction for the album. isento ( talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- "Love/Hate, drawing" > "Love/Hate. The album drew"
- The word works best as an adverb referring to The-Dream and his direction, rather than the album itself, which is more a product of the direction and inspirations than an acting agent. isento ( talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- "native Atlanta. Recording" > "native Atlanta. [line break] Recording"
- "Recording alongside fellow songwriter-producers
Tricky Stewart and Carlos McKinney, he employed" > "Recorded alongside fellow songwriter-producers
Tricky Stewart and
Carlos McKinney, the album employs"
- Okay. isento ( talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- For info on critical reception, add this before the first sentence of the third paragraph:
- That doesn't seem necessary. And I think it's more effective to end the paragraph with views on its lasting significance, mirroring the structure of the body.
isento (
talk)
20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry
isento, I suggested that when I didn't know any better. I was going to write a summary of the reception but then I saw that it's already there (it's fine for it to be at the end of the lead). I must have
forgotten to remove this suggestion, but I guess
it was just a burning memory.
Wetrorave (
talk)
21:38, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Nice lyric reference! I love sharing the things we know and love with those of my kind ... isento ( talk) 03:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry
isento, I suggested that when I didn't know any better. I was going to write a summary of the reception but then I saw that it's already there (it's fine for it to be at the end of the lead). I must have
forgotten to remove this suggestion, but I guess
it was just a burning memory.
Wetrorave (
talk)
21:38, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- That doesn't seem necessary. And I think it's more effective to end the paragraph with views on its lasting significance, mirroring the structure of the body.
isento (
talk)
20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Background
- "As The-Dream recalls, "I called [
Island Def Jam executive] Karen Kwak and I told her I wanted to [...] shit. I figured" > "The-Dream stated he remembers calling
Island Def Jam executive Karen Kwak and telling her he "wanted to [...] shit." The-Dream said: "I figured"
- I've paraphrased much of it instead. "Stated" means to say something clearly and definitely, which phrases like "artist shit" and "figured" do not. isento ( talk) 00:59, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Writing and recording
- "and McKinney[4] – were [...] Angeles.[5]" > "and McKinney – were [...] Angeles.[4][5]"
- WP:CITEFOOT says to place the citation after the adjacent punctuation and close to the material it is supporting. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "approach[6] and wrote some of its songs responding" > "approach,[6] writing some of its songs as a response"
- I've split the clauses into two sentences. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "life, most notably "Nikki", which was inspired" > "life. An example is "Nikki", a track inspired"
- Apparently, whoever added that sentence in the past misused the source. So I've replaced it with something more faithful to the source. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "from past artists" > "from artists" – past is redundant, since there's no way someone can be influenced by a future artist
[b]
- Well, there is also the present, and the sentence mentions "contemporary", so I believe the "past" distinction is still useful. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "elements,[4] as the" > "elements.[4] The" for the sentence not be too large
- I've replaced the period with a semicolon, so the connection remains. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "resolutely luminescent" with" > "resolutely luminescent", with" for readers to have a pause on this sentence
- Done. isento ( talk) 02:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Title and packaging
- Change to Title and album cover
- Make this section a level 3 header since it's three/four lines long
- I would prefer to keep as is. As a subsection, it wouldn't belong under any of the other sections, topically. Perhaps I will expand it in the future, actually. isento ( talk) 02:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Actually, it can work also if merged into marketing and sales. isento ( talk) 04:03, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Marketing and sales
- "Around the time of "Bed"'s release," > "Near the release of "Bed","
- Near is defined primarily as proximity, i.e. physical distance, so I think the current phrasing makes it clearer that we are defining a period of time. isento ( talk) 02:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Critical reception
- Ref 25 redirects to Vibe's news page; use
this
- Thanks. Done. isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "year" because of The-Dream's ability to write catchy songs." > "year",opining that The-Dream is a skilled songwriter."
- Well, the critic specifies it's his "tune-sense", tune meaning melody or melodic song, so I've revised it to "The-Dream's instinct for composing melodies". isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "Some reviewers had reservations." – this is a very vague statement; what reservations did they have, and why?
- It's merely a summary and no more or less vague than the album having received acclaim. The subsequent sentences elucidate those reservations. isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "remained impressed by the consistent quality" > "opined that the album has consistent quality"
- I don't want to get too wordy here. I'll just remove "consistent", since that was the only problematic element in stating what she "remained impressed by" as fact. isento ( talk) 02:27, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Legacy and influence
-
Endash with other dash might be confusing, so "the West–Jay-Z song" > "West's collaboration with Jay-Z"
- That would complicate the remaining structure of the sentence and make a long one even longer. MOS:ENBETWEEN says the dash can be used this way for compound constructions indicating "and". isento ( talk) 02:46, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- "proved highly innovative" > "is considered highly innovative"
- The Pitchfork source, cited at the end of the second sentence, verifies it this. And writing "considered ..." without attribution would be weasel-y. There's no reason to doubt the veracity of this statement, with other sources verifying it too ( [1]). isento ( talk) 02:46, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Also, phrasing it in the past tense suits the narrative tone of the section, as events happening after the album. isento ( talk) 03:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Track listing
- Use
Cite AV media notes here per
WP:TRACKLISTING
- Done. isento ( talk) 02:50, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Personnel
- Wikiling the first instance of mastering to
mastering (audio) and engineer to
audio engineer
- Done. And I've expanded/completed the track credits. isento ( talk) 03:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Charts
- Seems fine
Certifications
- Change to Certification since it's only one
- Done. isento ( talk) 03:43, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
See also
- Fine
References
- Cite SOHH as
|website=or|work=on ref 3 - Use Cite AV media notes rather than Cite web for ref 5, since it seems the intent is to cite the liner notes
- Ref 10 is
|url-access=limitedand not paid, since the NYT does give you some free articles- Done. isento ( talk) 03:53, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Further reading/External links
- Fine
Overall
-
On hold for now; I may not be able to respond in the following hours though.
Wetrorave (
talk)
16:34, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'll get thru the rest later though.
isento (
talk)
20:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- You seem to have addressed all the issues. The ones you didn't seem fine, since there is a stated reason for not doing each one of them. [c] I'm still not entirely happy with the article not having a combination of the artist's name with the release date separated only by a comma, like other articles do, but 'brilliant' prose is not a requirement of GA so it's not necessary.
- Thanks. I'll get thru the rest later though.
isento (
talk)
20:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
In conclusion, this article is good to go: ✓ Pass. Wetrorave ( talk) 12:52, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- ^ This would also reduce mentions of "songwriter-producer", a term that is mentioned at "prominent songwriter-producer"
- ^ Except if you have a time machine, as I do
- ^ Although relatively advanced, I'm not a native English speaker, which probably makes you more qualified to work on the prose than I do. I still think I'm doing reasonably well on the English Wikipedia with my work on the album portraying the stages of dementia but it's still imperfect.