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To call the requested move of this article "uncontroversial" on WP:RM was shockingly disingenuous.
(1) Google reports
only 40 references in English (14.9%) to "Louie Bickerton" compared to
228 in English for "Louise Bickerton" (85.1%).
(2) Google reports
only 4 references in French (16.0%) to "Louie Bickerton" compared to
21 in French for "Louise Bickerton" (84.0%).
(3) The French, Norwegian, and Polish language Wikipedia articles use "Louise Bickerton," not "Louie Bickerton".
(4)
Reuters refers to her as "Louise Bickerton."
(5) In American news media,
About.com (owned by the New York Times),
CBS,
Sports Illustrated, and
USA Today refer to her as "Louise Bickerton", not "Louie Bickerton".
(6)
Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia refers to her as "Louise Bickerton", not "Louie Bickerton".
(7) The consensus on English-language Wikipedia is to refer to her as
"Louise Bickerton" (22 instances, 88%), not
"Louie Bickerton" (only 3 instances, 12%).
Tennis expert (
talk)
08:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
The spelling "Louie Bickerton" is supported by primary, secondary and tertiary source information. "Tennis expert" has not, and cannot, present primary and secondary source information in support of their spurious claim that "Louise Bickerton" is the correct spelling. Instead, all the sources are not referenced and are probably derived from the same faulty information - possibly even from a single transcription error. It is easier, after all, to replicate other people's lists, rather than doing the research or transcription themselves... so they simply "copy and paste". Does anyone really believe that all those many websites with tennis lists all transcribed them afresh? AND from a reputable source?
All that "Tennis expert" provides are links to internet tennis lists and Wikipedia articles, that are likely based upon the same data. Tennis lists can be, and are, replicated widely without correction, despite errors. Therefore Google percentages mean little. All it proves is that incorrect data replication is rife on the internet - even on some 'name' sites. But, at the end of the day, it is the quality of information that counts, not quantity.
The Reuters, About.com, CBS, Sports Illustrated, USA Today and Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia are all tennis lists, not biographies. And they are not authoritative. What, for instance, are their sources?
At the risk of sounding repetitive... check some authoritative sources. Go on, humour me. No, don't Google it. Go here:
NSW Registry of Births Deaths & Marriages
Enter the groom's surname of Cozens in the appropriate field. Then enter the bride's surname of Bickerton. Enter the marriage year of 1935 (or a date range from 1788-1957). Click "Search Now" and voila! That is information from their marriage certificate.
If you're still not convinced, then wander along to this place. Search the picture database for "Louie Bickerton" to see a captioned photograph of her:
This is another credible source. Neither of these sources are lists copied from other unreliable and unsourced sites.
There are some other interesting local history sites that have actually researched their subjects. Not surprisingly, they spell her name Louie:
Strathfield District Historical Society.
[www.scenenewspapers.com.au/supp/issues/March2006/page12.pdf Strathfield Scene newspaper March 2006].
[rotarnet.com.au/users/9/96933/Strathfield%20Heritage%20Tour%202004.pdf Strathfield Heritage Tour].
How about published sources? Well, they spell it Louie too. Here are a couple of oldies, but they're goodies:
Metzler, Paul (1979). "Great Players of Australian Tennis", Sydney, Harper & Row. (page 89)
Matthews, Bruce (1985). "Game, set, and glory: a history of the Australian tennis championships, Hawthorn, Five Mile Press. (page 18)
Contemporaneous newspaper articles? Well, they spell it Louie, of course. Here's a quotation from one article (of many):
"Miss Nell Lloyd and Miss Louie Bickerton, with the chairwoman, Mrs. R. J. Conway, asked Mrs Warburton to accept their thanks on behalf of the women tennis players." (Sydney Morning Herald 14-Feb-1935, p. 20, "Tennis Pioneer"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.221.111.60 ( talk) 14:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
This article, currently at Louise Bickerton, recently (July 2008) went through several moves to Louie Bickerton and back again. The "move war" with this article has subsided, but I have come across this talk page and see that the evidence in favour of Louie Bickerton, provided by 203.221.111.60, is strong, and cogent, and persuasive. Human nature, especially when it comes to the internet, plays a hand here: we must admit that "Louie" is an odd name for a female, and there isn't much argument in speculating that she may have got her own name wrong on her marriage certificate, or that it's just a coincidence that Paul Metzler goofed the name Louise in his Syndey, Harper & Row-published book. There has to be a reason to lose the s; whereas there need be no reason, other than a person's own assumptions, to add the s; suggesting that Louie is the correct name. It is similar to an argument that I used in support of moving October Guard to Oktober Guard. A lot of the sources were (by the very nature of the action figure genre) those of collectors running personal websites for their own collections, and they invariably spelt it Oktober, but these weren't considered "appropriate" sources. But they have the action figure, something has to persuade a handful of, say, Americans, to spell something wrong. If it wasn't on the packaging, or wasn't in the comic book, they'd have spelt it October. This might not hold true for a lot of words, especially those that are commonly misspelled by the masses, but Louise and October very rarely are, even with typos reigning on the web in general.
The solid web evidence and printed evidence provided by 203.221.111.60 may be sparser than that provided by Tennis expert, but keeping this article at Louise Bickerton would rely too heavily on "google hits"; Tennis expert has shown that the references to Louise are more common than Louie, but not necessarily correct. 203.221.111.60 has invariably proved a case of error replication.
If there is opposition to my moving this article to Louie Bickerton, please discuss it here before reverting! Maedin\ talk 20:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This is 203.221.111.60, who tried to change Louise to Louie all that time ago. I must confess that I had given up the cause as lost, having provided such authoritative references, and still not convinced other contributors at the time. Until now I hadn't checked the page, but was relieved to find that the correct name has prevailed (I notice that the number of other websites adopting the correct name are on the increase. Such is the influence of Wikipedia!).
Other resources, such as old newspapers that have been digitised, are increaingly becoming available online. The following are some further references to Louie Bickerton from old Australian newspapers, provided on the National Library of Australia site:
The Argus, Melbourne, 12-Dec-1916 page 5 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1617754?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Argus, Melbourne, 13-Dec-1918 page 4 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1410420?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Courier-Mail, Brisbane, 19-Jan-1934 page 9 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1161589?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Courier-Mail, Brisbane, 23-Jan-1934 page 10 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1163058?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Courier-Mail, Brisbane, 27-Jan-1934 page 10 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1164633?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.221.111.186 ( talk) 16:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To call the requested move of this article "uncontroversial" on WP:RM was shockingly disingenuous.
(1) Google reports
only 40 references in English (14.9%) to "Louie Bickerton" compared to
228 in English for "Louise Bickerton" (85.1%).
(2) Google reports
only 4 references in French (16.0%) to "Louie Bickerton" compared to
21 in French for "Louise Bickerton" (84.0%).
(3) The French, Norwegian, and Polish language Wikipedia articles use "Louise Bickerton," not "Louie Bickerton".
(4)
Reuters refers to her as "Louise Bickerton."
(5) In American news media,
About.com (owned by the New York Times),
CBS,
Sports Illustrated, and
USA Today refer to her as "Louise Bickerton", not "Louie Bickerton".
(6)
Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia refers to her as "Louise Bickerton", not "Louie Bickerton".
(7) The consensus on English-language Wikipedia is to refer to her as
"Louise Bickerton" (22 instances, 88%), not
"Louie Bickerton" (only 3 instances, 12%).
Tennis expert (
talk)
08:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
The spelling "Louie Bickerton" is supported by primary, secondary and tertiary source information. "Tennis expert" has not, and cannot, present primary and secondary source information in support of their spurious claim that "Louise Bickerton" is the correct spelling. Instead, all the sources are not referenced and are probably derived from the same faulty information - possibly even from a single transcription error. It is easier, after all, to replicate other people's lists, rather than doing the research or transcription themselves... so they simply "copy and paste". Does anyone really believe that all those many websites with tennis lists all transcribed them afresh? AND from a reputable source?
All that "Tennis expert" provides are links to internet tennis lists and Wikipedia articles, that are likely based upon the same data. Tennis lists can be, and are, replicated widely without correction, despite errors. Therefore Google percentages mean little. All it proves is that incorrect data replication is rife on the internet - even on some 'name' sites. But, at the end of the day, it is the quality of information that counts, not quantity.
The Reuters, About.com, CBS, Sports Illustrated, USA Today and Funk & Wagnalls New Encyclopedia are all tennis lists, not biographies. And they are not authoritative. What, for instance, are their sources?
At the risk of sounding repetitive... check some authoritative sources. Go on, humour me. No, don't Google it. Go here:
NSW Registry of Births Deaths & Marriages
Enter the groom's surname of Cozens in the appropriate field. Then enter the bride's surname of Bickerton. Enter the marriage year of 1935 (or a date range from 1788-1957). Click "Search Now" and voila! That is information from their marriage certificate.
If you're still not convinced, then wander along to this place. Search the picture database for "Louie Bickerton" to see a captioned photograph of her:
This is another credible source. Neither of these sources are lists copied from other unreliable and unsourced sites.
There are some other interesting local history sites that have actually researched their subjects. Not surprisingly, they spell her name Louie:
Strathfield District Historical Society.
[www.scenenewspapers.com.au/supp/issues/March2006/page12.pdf Strathfield Scene newspaper March 2006].
[rotarnet.com.au/users/9/96933/Strathfield%20Heritage%20Tour%202004.pdf Strathfield Heritage Tour].
How about published sources? Well, they spell it Louie too. Here are a couple of oldies, but they're goodies:
Metzler, Paul (1979). "Great Players of Australian Tennis", Sydney, Harper & Row. (page 89)
Matthews, Bruce (1985). "Game, set, and glory: a history of the Australian tennis championships, Hawthorn, Five Mile Press. (page 18)
Contemporaneous newspaper articles? Well, they spell it Louie, of course. Here's a quotation from one article (of many):
"Miss Nell Lloyd and Miss Louie Bickerton, with the chairwoman, Mrs. R. J. Conway, asked Mrs Warburton to accept their thanks on behalf of the women tennis players." (Sydney Morning Herald 14-Feb-1935, p. 20, "Tennis Pioneer"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.221.111.60 ( talk) 14:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
This article, currently at Louise Bickerton, recently (July 2008) went through several moves to Louie Bickerton and back again. The "move war" with this article has subsided, but I have come across this talk page and see that the evidence in favour of Louie Bickerton, provided by 203.221.111.60, is strong, and cogent, and persuasive. Human nature, especially when it comes to the internet, plays a hand here: we must admit that "Louie" is an odd name for a female, and there isn't much argument in speculating that she may have got her own name wrong on her marriage certificate, or that it's just a coincidence that Paul Metzler goofed the name Louise in his Syndey, Harper & Row-published book. There has to be a reason to lose the s; whereas there need be no reason, other than a person's own assumptions, to add the s; suggesting that Louie is the correct name. It is similar to an argument that I used in support of moving October Guard to Oktober Guard. A lot of the sources were (by the very nature of the action figure genre) those of collectors running personal websites for their own collections, and they invariably spelt it Oktober, but these weren't considered "appropriate" sources. But they have the action figure, something has to persuade a handful of, say, Americans, to spell something wrong. If it wasn't on the packaging, or wasn't in the comic book, they'd have spelt it October. This might not hold true for a lot of words, especially those that are commonly misspelled by the masses, but Louise and October very rarely are, even with typos reigning on the web in general.
The solid web evidence and printed evidence provided by 203.221.111.60 may be sparser than that provided by Tennis expert, but keeping this article at Louise Bickerton would rely too heavily on "google hits"; Tennis expert has shown that the references to Louise are more common than Louie, but not necessarily correct. 203.221.111.60 has invariably proved a case of error replication.
If there is opposition to my moving this article to Louie Bickerton, please discuss it here before reverting! Maedin\ talk 20:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This is 203.221.111.60, who tried to change Louise to Louie all that time ago. I must confess that I had given up the cause as lost, having provided such authoritative references, and still not convinced other contributors at the time. Until now I hadn't checked the page, but was relieved to find that the correct name has prevailed (I notice that the number of other websites adopting the correct name are on the increase. Such is the influence of Wikipedia!).
Other resources, such as old newspapers that have been digitised, are increaingly becoming available online. The following are some further references to Louie Bickerton from old Australian newspapers, provided on the National Library of Australia site:
The Argus, Melbourne, 12-Dec-1916 page 5 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1617754?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Argus, Melbourne, 13-Dec-1918 page 4 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1410420?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Courier-Mail, Brisbane, 19-Jan-1934 page 9 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1161589?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Courier-Mail, Brisbane, 23-Jan-1934 page 10 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1163058?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22
The Courier-Mail, Brisbane, 27-Jan-1934 page 10 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1164633?searchTerm=%22Louie+Bickerton%22 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.221.111.186 ( talk) 16:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)