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This is an archive of older "talk" from the Loudspeaker article up to and including April, 2006.
For the most recent discussion, see Talk:Loudspeaker.
Would this be the place to have an entry for a line array and point source? or should those be entirely different articles?
I believe that it would be a good idea to split the article because although enclosures are part of a loudspeaker, they also are a componant of their own, and it diserves its own article. I have already setup a
Subwoofer enclosure
Loudspeaker enclosure article and linked about 10 articles there, and then redirected it to
Loudspeaker for now. Please comment:
I am currently a media production student studying 3D design as part of my solid modelling module. I am trying to design a futuristic (25 year gap) speaker. Having hunted there appears to be little about the future design of speaker casing most searches have led to dead ends............... can anyone please offer a resultant target?
Not to nitpick, but the first photo is a single woofer driver, not an entire speaker.
Actually, it is a loudspeaker driver of indeterminate frequency range. Could be woofer, mid-bass, or "full-range."
Is it just me, or do those two sketches in the enclosure section tend to come and go randomly on random days? today i can see the first one and not the second one, which is a new phenomenon. Gzuckier 03:18, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I added a little note at the end of subwoofers re: the LFE channel on modern decoders since there is often confusion about its purpose. I'll edit the LFE page later to be more informative instead of blathering about it where its not relevant. MtB
I removed this aside from the text, as it didn't help to explain how plasma speakers work.
It might belong somewhere in Wikipedia, if it's true. -- Heron 18:35, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
This article should include a section on series vs parallel speaker connections. I am trying to figure out the difference, and how those connections are set up, and cannot seem to find a simple explanation.
A recent edit to the article stated that "All speakers have two terminals...".
This is incorrect. Some multi-driver speakers allow for the possibility of bi-/tri-amplification by containing separate terminals for the tweeters, midranges, etc. Ordinarily, the multiple "hot" terminals are connected together by jumper wires, but these can be removed to allow separate operation of the separate drivers.
And then there were the off, multi-impedance speakers that contain multiple terminals that connect to multiple taps on the voice coil...
Atlant 14:00, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Would someone mind expounding on the various loudspeaker power capacity ratings? What is peak power, program power and continuous power?
Thanks!
Jeb6kids 14:55, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Atlant is on the right track, but I'd like to add more if I may.
The continous power rating of a drive unit (or complete loudspeaker) is the rating to take note of. This should always be an RMS quantity and refers to the continous amount of [wideband] signal power the driver (or system) can cope with while exhibiting reliable operation considering thermal and mechanical limitations.
The peak power rating or peak music power rating refers to the unit's (or system's) ability to cope with [instantanious] short bursts of high levels of input. This is dependent on the capacity of the drive units in question to cope with the heat and mechanical extremes generated in these very short periods. This is why liquid cooling and extended pole pieces (bumped backplates) were first introduced to HF and LF units respectively. Music material is very dynamic and good quality loudspeakers easily cope with dynamic power levels twice that of the continious rating without risk of failure.
Unfortunately, as noted by Atlant, the marketing guys have jumped all over the P.M.P.O rating of loudspeakers and this is often given precedence over the real power handling capacity, continious RMS power handling.
Visor57 09:59, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Referring to
Wikipedia:External links and
WP:NOT, it's clear that a massive list of external links is not appropiate.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
23:15, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Please do not simply revert changes you don't like. See
edit war. Review the links above and provide a reason why almost one hundred external links need to be included in this article.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
02:40, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm quite dissapointed in the tone that has been taken in this. It's very bad form to simply revert someone repeatedly, especially when that person has asked several times for you to come to the talk page. Please actually read
Edit war, and maybe have a look at
Wikiquette as well, as the language you've used is unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
00:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Here's a direct dump of text from
Wikipedia:External links
1) What should be linked to
- Official sites should be added to the page of any organization, person, or other entity that has an official site.
- Sites that have been cited or used as references in the creation of a text. Intellectual honesty requires that any site actually used as a reference be cited. To fail to do so is plagiarism.
- If a book or other text that is the subject of an article exists somewhere on the Internet it should be linked to.
- On articles with multiple Points of View, a link to sites dedicated to each, with a detailed explanation of each link. The number of links dedicated to one POV should not overwhelm the number dedicated to any other. One should attempt to add comments to these links informing the reader of what their POV is.
- High content pages that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article. Ideally this content should be integrated into the Wikipedia article at which point the link would remain as a reference.
2) Maybe OK to add
- For albums, movies, books: one or two links to professional reviews which express some sort of general sentiment. For films, Movie Review Query Engine, Internet Movie DataBase, Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic offer especially large collections of reviews. To access the list of other collections of movie reviews available online, please use this link.
- Web directories: When deemed appropriate by those contributing to an article on Wikipedia, a link to one web directory listing can be added, with preference to open directories (if two are comparable and only one is open). If deemed unnecessary, or if no good directory listing exists, one should not be included.
- Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link.
3) What should not be linked to
- Wikipedia disapproves strongly of links that are added for advertising purposes. Adding links to one's own page is strongly discouraged. The mass adding of links to any website is also strongly discouraged, and any such operation should be raised at the Village Pump or other such page and approved by the community before going ahead. Persistently linking to one's own site is considered Vandalism and can result in sanctions. See also External link spamming.
- Links to a site that is selling products, unless it applies via a "do" above.
I won't bother going through and putting "3.2" by every one, but if you could note which of sections 1 or 2 above apply to each of these?
brenneman
(t)
(c)
00:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
see KEF website they have some good loudspeaker diagrams. www.kef.com and the technology page www.kef.com/technology.asp
In my opinion, 1.4 (PoV) and 1.5 (High-content external links) apply. Loudspeaker design is a highly-opinionated business and while the article is written in a nicely NPOV way, the individual manufacturers have widely divergent opinions as to how to design systems. For example, Klipsh and Acoustic Research disagreed just a little.
And 3.2 is only a close miss, IMO. Most of these sites probably aren't involved in direct sales (especially via the web), which is the usual sort of thing that gets quashed. Instead, these links have each been added over time by a large number of individual editors so it seems a mite presumptuous for you to come along and suddenly act like the Wiki Police, quoting policy at us; I don't see anyone objecting to these links besides you, and at least several of us are defending these links. If need be, we could simply write a Wiki stub article on each of these vendors, provide a 1.1 link, and call your bluff. But that seems like a silly waste of effort to appease one lone editor.
Atlant 19:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Please note (as above) any links that do follow the guideline, if we're following it. - brenneman (t) (c) 03:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Note also that there is lots of wiggle room. What you have cited is a guideline, something we are free to ignore, not a policy. Gene Nygaard
brenneman (t) (c) 03:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
P.S. I'd suggest you review WP:CIV (which is a policy, rather than a guideline) yourself, especially the part about "ill-considered accusations of impropriety of one kind or another", because there certainly was no impropriety in Atlant's response. Gene Nygaard 04:51, 2 October 2005 (UTC) Note that what you put in your editorial comment was a more egregious violation than asking Atlant to review it here. Gene Nygaard 05:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
No axe to grind here, but I'm restoring a big chunky deletion from Nov. 29 or thereabouts which I would hope to be accidental, and I can't tell from reading the above what the final decision on the manufacturers' links was... so I figured it's easier to restore them and then they can be deleted if that was the consensus than not restore them if the consensus was to restore them. That's what happens when folks don't use their words on the talk page! Gzuckier 03:29, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Having read the article I think its very much in need of a few changes, none more important than deciding on the terminology to be used to refer to a driver (transducer) and to 1 or more drivers in an enclosure (cabinet) and clear distinctions to be drawn between the 2. I also think the last 1/3rd - 2/3rds of the article could benefit from being farmed off into other articles. Just my 2c but it is a very messy read. People seem to be actively editing so I'll leave well alone for fear of treading on others toes.-- Pypex 23:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I did my best tryng to clean the article, check it out, I hope the work could be useful
"One problem with loudspeakers is that the original soundwave usually radiates outwards in a spherical wavefront that reaches both ears;"
I do not know of any sound source that has a sphereical wavefront, in the sense that all frequencies are radiated in all directions evenly. What follows seems to be a advertisement for Bose, If there are no objections I would like to remove this part. Iain 11:27, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
maybe someone chould add something about how they get damaged by too loud sounds. J C 03:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Much of this article seems to have been copied from http://www.audiocircuit.com (click 'Loudspeaker'). Njál 03:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I just skimmed the article and don't see any mention of "70 V" "constant voltage" distribution systems. [1] Is there an article about this? — Omegatron 02:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Heron asks if this new sectionof the article is spam. I think I'd say that it is. Transmission line speakers ain't really nothin' new; horn-loaded speakers share a lot of the same attributes and it could be argued that they are also transmission line speakers. In any case, the recent editor certainly was pumping in the PoV. I think it would be correct to tone this section down squite a bit.
Atlant 19:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Rohitbd changed the cross-sectional view of a spaker driver and asked if it's OK.
To me, it's fine.
Atlant 19:46, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Just an observation over a period of time that this article is particularly the target of vandalism, while related articles are relatively safe. Any ideas/reasons/theories why? Rohitbd 10:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I have added a cut-away view of a loudspeaker as seen from front. I thought it might be helpful. Please check if it is ok. Rohitbd 11:20, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Copied from my talk page (links just put back):
Please do not add commercial links (or links to your own private websites) to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia. See the welcome page to learn more. Thanks. AlistairMcMillan 21:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I am very surprised and puzzled by this comment. Firstly, I have added no links to my own private website (I do not own or control Lindos Electronics, though I founded it). Secondly, Wikipedia is full of external links to company sites, often of poor quality. Lindos is a very high profile company in the area of audio measurements, and the articles on its site are very pertinent to many Wikipedia topics. The test sheet database is a novel public resource, built by users, rather like Wikipedia, and hence of great interest to those reading audio topics and something Wikipedians might be expected to support. My personal interest has always been in improving the understanding of audio quality and measurement, and that is my role now, through my own business Lindos Developments, which does not sell anything but has income from IP rights. Perhaps you should have a go at the IPod page. That's pure product advertising for one manufacturer. Then there is the listing of manufacturers on this page. Lindos does not even make speakers!!
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lindosland"
The Lindos links are to independent reviews, relevant to the article in that they are described as 'typical' measured results. The Lindos articles are also relevant as they describe measurement techniques appropriate to loudspeakers.
I dispute the "30 to 40". The links are to articles, and, as I have explained, a public database. Both are a major resource written by me for the benefit of the industry and the public. The fact that these are on the Lindos website should not bar them from being linked to. I think you should back off now and let others have a chance to check the links and decide. Removing the one serious test result from the iPod site, a most valuable resource, is especially mean. Have you looked at the links. If you were seriously interested in audio topics I think you would see them as of unique value. If all I were doing was putting up advertising links all over the place you would have a point, but I've spent hundreds of hours writing and converting material on audio for Wikipedia and created dozens of ready made pages on the subject. Please put all links back. -- Lindosland 18:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
(copied from talk:lindosland:)
So I do not feel I have breached Wikipedia rules, and I do feel that I am doing a good service for Wikipedia. Given that fact, I do not feel you should be policing so many articles hastily in the way that you are. You should leave the links for others to decide their relevance to each page independantly, with discussions on the talk at each page.
How about a compromise? One link to Lindos per article if you like, and no mention of Lindos in any link as it appears on Wikipedia (as I have largely done on Speakers). I really do want these articles read. They are used as a teaching resource by several universities who's professors (in Audio engineering) have recently contacted us to let us know. Lets get down to their content, not what website they are on. Of course I could move them to another website, or I could have remained anonymous like most Wikipedians, or I could get others to put up the links (as per Wikipedia above) but doesn't that seems less satisfactory than just being open about it all, as is my way? -- Lindosland 20:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm giving in on this, though I am a bit unhappy that so many other links to commercial (and less philanthropic) sites exist on Wikipedia. I now think I was misled by this fact. Linking to the articles seemed logical, since I have actually be combining writing for the Lindos site with writing for Wikipedia, and the Lindos ones can in some cases differ in POV of course. This is not important though. I do think it a pity that I cannot link to the test site database, especially for the IPod. Chris went to some trouble to find someone with the latest IPod so that we could add it to the site. I don't want to go into the details of Lindos much, suffice it to say that it is not nice to be constantly told that I own Lindos when it was actually taken from me in very painful and complicated circumstances connected with a split with my partner and mother of my children. Lindos was in other hands from 1994 until 2003 when it was transferred to Chris by mutual agreement, with me giving him the right to use IP rights which it transpired I still owned (there were legal battles). Clearly I am involved, and don't deny it, but the facts are the facts.
After 25 years in the field I now despair at the way things are going backwards with myth replacing reality in so many things concerned with audio. Chris agrees, and Lindos is very much our vehicle for trying to educate both professionals and the public back to a proper understanding. I do research in buildings in the groounds of my home, some of which feeds into Lindos. I never liked business, and always enjoyed the R&D. That is why it is particulary sad that the test sheet database results cannot be used here to demonstrate the reality of audio (we specialise in measuring in a way that allows fair comparisons). Yes, most (but not all) of the entries are currently by Chris and myself, but that is because it has not been going long. I thought of including test sheets in articles, but that does not seem nice with Lindos on the top. To me it seems better to link to them - I hate advertising. I wonder if links in the form of citations in the text would be acceptable. I could say something like 'the iPod performed well in independant tests' with a citation link added. Would you consider that acceptable? As far as I can see, the rules support that, though you might still say I am linking to a site that I have interest in! I am in a peculiar position if I cannot refer to things I was involvded in, because there are only a few people in the world heading the development of test methods for audio, and I am the only one specialising in 'subjectively valid' test methods, despite having to fight a hard battle in the face of an industry run by 'spec writers' who tell lies as part of their marketing, so inevitably it all comes back to me! If I leave it for others to write, the job will not be so well done. Any further thoughts? -- Lindosland 11:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
One last point - I've just realised that a clamp down on links began on this page before I came to it, and the rules are spelled out there, including references to the desirability of crediting sources to avoid accusations of plagurism. This works both ways, and I don't want people reading the Lindos site to say 'they pinched that from Wikipedia'! How do you suggest I point out the source, to avoid two-way assumptions of plagurism, if I am barred from referring to a site I have 'interest' in, even when I wrote the source and the article (I'm thinking of the many articles I created at a stroke, not this one of course)? -- Lindosland 11:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually you can, if you appear to copyright it, because Wikipedia is only free to use if you agree to adhere to rule that others can use the material you put it in. The articles on the Lindos site are Lindos copyright. If I use similar phrases in writing for Wikipedia then I am granting use of the new article, not the Lindos one. So the Lindos copyrighted article might then appear to be in breach of the Wikipedia agreement. Even though the articles differ, we enter the realms of plagiarism. This is made quite clear in WP guidelines as already pointed out above on this page as follows!
Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources. Exceptions may be when a well-known, professional researcher in a relevant field, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material. In some cases, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as their work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications. However, exercise caution: if the information on the professional researcher's blog is really worth reporting, someone else will have done so.
If that were true it would mean that I could not write for Wikipedia, as it says clearly that not to link to reference sources would be plagiarism. I think you are confusing links generally with links to sources used in creation of an article. I read the above section as saying that well known professionals who have been published elsewhere by credible third-party publications can be an exception. They have to be if they are to write for Wikipedia. If you insist on not replacing those links, then I feel you put Wikipedia in the position of seriously plagiarising articles that are copyright on the Lindos site. You also make it look as if Lindos stole the articles from Wikipedia and slapped copyright on them. It's not acceptable at all, hence the emphasis in the rules about plagiarism. I want other opinions on this particular aspect before I will give in on this. -- Lindosland 22:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is an archive of older "talk" from the Loudspeaker article up to and including April, 2006.
For the most recent discussion, see Talk:Loudspeaker.
Would this be the place to have an entry for a line array and point source? or should those be entirely different articles?
I believe that it would be a good idea to split the article because although enclosures are part of a loudspeaker, they also are a componant of their own, and it diserves its own article. I have already setup a
Subwoofer enclosure
Loudspeaker enclosure article and linked about 10 articles there, and then redirected it to
Loudspeaker for now. Please comment:
I am currently a media production student studying 3D design as part of my solid modelling module. I am trying to design a futuristic (25 year gap) speaker. Having hunted there appears to be little about the future design of speaker casing most searches have led to dead ends............... can anyone please offer a resultant target?
Not to nitpick, but the first photo is a single woofer driver, not an entire speaker.
Actually, it is a loudspeaker driver of indeterminate frequency range. Could be woofer, mid-bass, or "full-range."
Is it just me, or do those two sketches in the enclosure section tend to come and go randomly on random days? today i can see the first one and not the second one, which is a new phenomenon. Gzuckier 03:18, 9 May 2005 (UTC)
I added a little note at the end of subwoofers re: the LFE channel on modern decoders since there is often confusion about its purpose. I'll edit the LFE page later to be more informative instead of blathering about it where its not relevant. MtB
I removed this aside from the text, as it didn't help to explain how plasma speakers work.
It might belong somewhere in Wikipedia, if it's true. -- Heron 18:35, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
This article should include a section on series vs parallel speaker connections. I am trying to figure out the difference, and how those connections are set up, and cannot seem to find a simple explanation.
A recent edit to the article stated that "All speakers have two terminals...".
This is incorrect. Some multi-driver speakers allow for the possibility of bi-/tri-amplification by containing separate terminals for the tweeters, midranges, etc. Ordinarily, the multiple "hot" terminals are connected together by jumper wires, but these can be removed to allow separate operation of the separate drivers.
And then there were the off, multi-impedance speakers that contain multiple terminals that connect to multiple taps on the voice coil...
Atlant 14:00, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Would someone mind expounding on the various loudspeaker power capacity ratings? What is peak power, program power and continuous power?
Thanks!
Jeb6kids 14:55, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
Atlant is on the right track, but I'd like to add more if I may.
The continous power rating of a drive unit (or complete loudspeaker) is the rating to take note of. This should always be an RMS quantity and refers to the continous amount of [wideband] signal power the driver (or system) can cope with while exhibiting reliable operation considering thermal and mechanical limitations.
The peak power rating or peak music power rating refers to the unit's (or system's) ability to cope with [instantanious] short bursts of high levels of input. This is dependent on the capacity of the drive units in question to cope with the heat and mechanical extremes generated in these very short periods. This is why liquid cooling and extended pole pieces (bumped backplates) were first introduced to HF and LF units respectively. Music material is very dynamic and good quality loudspeakers easily cope with dynamic power levels twice that of the continious rating without risk of failure.
Unfortunately, as noted by Atlant, the marketing guys have jumped all over the P.M.P.O rating of loudspeakers and this is often given precedence over the real power handling capacity, continious RMS power handling.
Visor57 09:59, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Referring to
Wikipedia:External links and
WP:NOT, it's clear that a massive list of external links is not appropiate.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
23:15, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Please do not simply revert changes you don't like. See
edit war. Review the links above and provide a reason why almost one hundred external links need to be included in this article.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
02:40, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm quite dissapointed in the tone that has been taken in this. It's very bad form to simply revert someone repeatedly, especially when that person has asked several times for you to come to the talk page. Please actually read
Edit war, and maybe have a look at
Wikiquette as well, as the language you've used is unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion.
brenneman
(t)
(c)
00:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Here's a direct dump of text from
Wikipedia:External links
1) What should be linked to
- Official sites should be added to the page of any organization, person, or other entity that has an official site.
- Sites that have been cited or used as references in the creation of a text. Intellectual honesty requires that any site actually used as a reference be cited. To fail to do so is plagiarism.
- If a book or other text that is the subject of an article exists somewhere on the Internet it should be linked to.
- On articles with multiple Points of View, a link to sites dedicated to each, with a detailed explanation of each link. The number of links dedicated to one POV should not overwhelm the number dedicated to any other. One should attempt to add comments to these links informing the reader of what their POV is.
- High content pages that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article. Ideally this content should be integrated into the Wikipedia article at which point the link would remain as a reference.
2) Maybe OK to add
- For albums, movies, books: one or two links to professional reviews which express some sort of general sentiment. For films, Movie Review Query Engine, Internet Movie DataBase, Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic offer especially large collections of reviews. To access the list of other collections of movie reviews available online, please use this link.
- Web directories: When deemed appropriate by those contributing to an article on Wikipedia, a link to one web directory listing can be added, with preference to open directories (if two are comparable and only one is open). If deemed unnecessary, or if no good directory listing exists, one should not be included.
- Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link.
3) What should not be linked to
- Wikipedia disapproves strongly of links that are added for advertising purposes. Adding links to one's own page is strongly discouraged. The mass adding of links to any website is also strongly discouraged, and any such operation should be raised at the Village Pump or other such page and approved by the community before going ahead. Persistently linking to one's own site is considered Vandalism and can result in sanctions. See also External link spamming.
- Links to a site that is selling products, unless it applies via a "do" above.
I won't bother going through and putting "3.2" by every one, but if you could note which of sections 1 or 2 above apply to each of these?
brenneman
(t)
(c)
00:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
see KEF website they have some good loudspeaker diagrams. www.kef.com and the technology page www.kef.com/technology.asp
In my opinion, 1.4 (PoV) and 1.5 (High-content external links) apply. Loudspeaker design is a highly-opinionated business and while the article is written in a nicely NPOV way, the individual manufacturers have widely divergent opinions as to how to design systems. For example, Klipsh and Acoustic Research disagreed just a little.
And 3.2 is only a close miss, IMO. Most of these sites probably aren't involved in direct sales (especially via the web), which is the usual sort of thing that gets quashed. Instead, these links have each been added over time by a large number of individual editors so it seems a mite presumptuous for you to come along and suddenly act like the Wiki Police, quoting policy at us; I don't see anyone objecting to these links besides you, and at least several of us are defending these links. If need be, we could simply write a Wiki stub article on each of these vendors, provide a 1.1 link, and call your bluff. But that seems like a silly waste of effort to appease one lone editor.
Atlant 19:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Please note (as above) any links that do follow the guideline, if we're following it. - brenneman (t) (c) 03:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Note also that there is lots of wiggle room. What you have cited is a guideline, something we are free to ignore, not a policy. Gene Nygaard
brenneman (t) (c) 03:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
P.S. I'd suggest you review WP:CIV (which is a policy, rather than a guideline) yourself, especially the part about "ill-considered accusations of impropriety of one kind or another", because there certainly was no impropriety in Atlant's response. Gene Nygaard 04:51, 2 October 2005 (UTC) Note that what you put in your editorial comment was a more egregious violation than asking Atlant to review it here. Gene Nygaard 05:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
No axe to grind here, but I'm restoring a big chunky deletion from Nov. 29 or thereabouts which I would hope to be accidental, and I can't tell from reading the above what the final decision on the manufacturers' links was... so I figured it's easier to restore them and then they can be deleted if that was the consensus than not restore them if the consensus was to restore them. That's what happens when folks don't use their words on the talk page! Gzuckier 03:29, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Having read the article I think its very much in need of a few changes, none more important than deciding on the terminology to be used to refer to a driver (transducer) and to 1 or more drivers in an enclosure (cabinet) and clear distinctions to be drawn between the 2. I also think the last 1/3rd - 2/3rds of the article could benefit from being farmed off into other articles. Just my 2c but it is a very messy read. People seem to be actively editing so I'll leave well alone for fear of treading on others toes.-- Pypex 23:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I did my best tryng to clean the article, check it out, I hope the work could be useful
"One problem with loudspeakers is that the original soundwave usually radiates outwards in a spherical wavefront that reaches both ears;"
I do not know of any sound source that has a sphereical wavefront, in the sense that all frequencies are radiated in all directions evenly. What follows seems to be a advertisement for Bose, If there are no objections I would like to remove this part. Iain 11:27, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
maybe someone chould add something about how they get damaged by too loud sounds. J C 03:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Much of this article seems to have been copied from http://www.audiocircuit.com (click 'Loudspeaker'). Njál 03:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
I just skimmed the article and don't see any mention of "70 V" "constant voltage" distribution systems. [1] Is there an article about this? — Omegatron 02:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Heron asks if this new sectionof the article is spam. I think I'd say that it is. Transmission line speakers ain't really nothin' new; horn-loaded speakers share a lot of the same attributes and it could be argued that they are also transmission line speakers. In any case, the recent editor certainly was pumping in the PoV. I think it would be correct to tone this section down squite a bit.
Atlant 19:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Rohitbd changed the cross-sectional view of a spaker driver and asked if it's OK.
To me, it's fine.
Atlant 19:46, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Just an observation over a period of time that this article is particularly the target of vandalism, while related articles are relatively safe. Any ideas/reasons/theories why? Rohitbd 10:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I have added a cut-away view of a loudspeaker as seen from front. I thought it might be helpful. Please check if it is ok. Rohitbd 11:20, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Copied from my talk page (links just put back):
Please do not add commercial links (or links to your own private websites) to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia. See the welcome page to learn more. Thanks. AlistairMcMillan 21:52, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I am very surprised and puzzled by this comment. Firstly, I have added no links to my own private website (I do not own or control Lindos Electronics, though I founded it). Secondly, Wikipedia is full of external links to company sites, often of poor quality. Lindos is a very high profile company in the area of audio measurements, and the articles on its site are very pertinent to many Wikipedia topics. The test sheet database is a novel public resource, built by users, rather like Wikipedia, and hence of great interest to those reading audio topics and something Wikipedians might be expected to support. My personal interest has always been in improving the understanding of audio quality and measurement, and that is my role now, through my own business Lindos Developments, which does not sell anything but has income from IP rights. Perhaps you should have a go at the IPod page. That's pure product advertising for one manufacturer. Then there is the listing of manufacturers on this page. Lindos does not even make speakers!!
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lindosland"
The Lindos links are to independent reviews, relevant to the article in that they are described as 'typical' measured results. The Lindos articles are also relevant as they describe measurement techniques appropriate to loudspeakers.
I dispute the "30 to 40". The links are to articles, and, as I have explained, a public database. Both are a major resource written by me for the benefit of the industry and the public. The fact that these are on the Lindos website should not bar them from being linked to. I think you should back off now and let others have a chance to check the links and decide. Removing the one serious test result from the iPod site, a most valuable resource, is especially mean. Have you looked at the links. If you were seriously interested in audio topics I think you would see them as of unique value. If all I were doing was putting up advertising links all over the place you would have a point, but I've spent hundreds of hours writing and converting material on audio for Wikipedia and created dozens of ready made pages on the subject. Please put all links back. -- Lindosland 18:00, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
(copied from talk:lindosland:)
So I do not feel I have breached Wikipedia rules, and I do feel that I am doing a good service for Wikipedia. Given that fact, I do not feel you should be policing so many articles hastily in the way that you are. You should leave the links for others to decide their relevance to each page independantly, with discussions on the talk at each page.
How about a compromise? One link to Lindos per article if you like, and no mention of Lindos in any link as it appears on Wikipedia (as I have largely done on Speakers). I really do want these articles read. They are used as a teaching resource by several universities who's professors (in Audio engineering) have recently contacted us to let us know. Lets get down to their content, not what website they are on. Of course I could move them to another website, or I could have remained anonymous like most Wikipedians, or I could get others to put up the links (as per Wikipedia above) but doesn't that seems less satisfactory than just being open about it all, as is my way? -- Lindosland 20:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm giving in on this, though I am a bit unhappy that so many other links to commercial (and less philanthropic) sites exist on Wikipedia. I now think I was misled by this fact. Linking to the articles seemed logical, since I have actually be combining writing for the Lindos site with writing for Wikipedia, and the Lindos ones can in some cases differ in POV of course. This is not important though. I do think it a pity that I cannot link to the test site database, especially for the IPod. Chris went to some trouble to find someone with the latest IPod so that we could add it to the site. I don't want to go into the details of Lindos much, suffice it to say that it is not nice to be constantly told that I own Lindos when it was actually taken from me in very painful and complicated circumstances connected with a split with my partner and mother of my children. Lindos was in other hands from 1994 until 2003 when it was transferred to Chris by mutual agreement, with me giving him the right to use IP rights which it transpired I still owned (there were legal battles). Clearly I am involved, and don't deny it, but the facts are the facts.
After 25 years in the field I now despair at the way things are going backwards with myth replacing reality in so many things concerned with audio. Chris agrees, and Lindos is very much our vehicle for trying to educate both professionals and the public back to a proper understanding. I do research in buildings in the groounds of my home, some of which feeds into Lindos. I never liked business, and always enjoyed the R&D. That is why it is particulary sad that the test sheet database results cannot be used here to demonstrate the reality of audio (we specialise in measuring in a way that allows fair comparisons). Yes, most (but not all) of the entries are currently by Chris and myself, but that is because it has not been going long. I thought of including test sheets in articles, but that does not seem nice with Lindos on the top. To me it seems better to link to them - I hate advertising. I wonder if links in the form of citations in the text would be acceptable. I could say something like 'the iPod performed well in independant tests' with a citation link added. Would you consider that acceptable? As far as I can see, the rules support that, though you might still say I am linking to a site that I have interest in! I am in a peculiar position if I cannot refer to things I was involvded in, because there are only a few people in the world heading the development of test methods for audio, and I am the only one specialising in 'subjectively valid' test methods, despite having to fight a hard battle in the face of an industry run by 'spec writers' who tell lies as part of their marketing, so inevitably it all comes back to me! If I leave it for others to write, the job will not be so well done. Any further thoughts? -- Lindosland 11:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
One last point - I've just realised that a clamp down on links began on this page before I came to it, and the rules are spelled out there, including references to the desirability of crediting sources to avoid accusations of plagurism. This works both ways, and I don't want people reading the Lindos site to say 'they pinched that from Wikipedia'! How do you suggest I point out the source, to avoid two-way assumptions of plagurism, if I am barred from referring to a site I have 'interest' in, even when I wrote the source and the article (I'm thinking of the many articles I created at a stroke, not this one of course)? -- Lindosland 11:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually you can, if you appear to copyright it, because Wikipedia is only free to use if you agree to adhere to rule that others can use the material you put it in. The articles on the Lindos site are Lindos copyright. If I use similar phrases in writing for Wikipedia then I am granting use of the new article, not the Lindos one. So the Lindos copyrighted article might then appear to be in breach of the Wikipedia agreement. Even though the articles differ, we enter the realms of plagiarism. This is made quite clear in WP guidelines as already pointed out above on this page as follows!
Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources. Exceptions may be when a well-known, professional researcher in a relevant field, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material. In some cases, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as their work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications. However, exercise caution: if the information on the professional researcher's blog is really worth reporting, someone else will have done so.
If that were true it would mean that I could not write for Wikipedia, as it says clearly that not to link to reference sources would be plagiarism. I think you are confusing links generally with links to sources used in creation of an article. I read the above section as saying that well known professionals who have been published elsewhere by credible third-party publications can be an exception. They have to be if they are to write for Wikipedia. If you insist on not replacing those links, then I feel you put Wikipedia in the position of seriously plagiarising articles that are copyright on the Lindos site. You also make it look as if Lindos stole the articles from Wikipedia and slapped copyright on them. It's not acceptable at all, hence the emphasis in the rules about plagiarism. I want other opinions on this particular aspect before I will give in on this. -- Lindosland 22:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)