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Most of the information on the survivors is duplicated at Characters of Lost. Whatever information isn't duplicated there should be moved. "Characters of Lost" is better suited this. K1Bond007 05:56, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
Theory regarding Ethan Rom:
Second is Ethan Rom, who is first seen hunting with Locke as one of the survivors. However, in "Raised by Another", Hurley discovers that Ethan is not one of the survivors of the plane crash. Ethan's real name is Erwin Rommel, one of the original Nazi's who discovered the Island. Island contains the fountain of youth hence his young features.
Mattlach 18:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know if this really is something to add to the themes section, but I think it is worth mentioning here at least. My friend and I talked a bit about Lost today and he mentioned something that I haven't noticed earlier, but that seems reasonable. Many of the characters have, on the island, been facing what might be fears and nightmares. We found at least four "coinsidences" worth looking up:
Might also mention the fact that Sun that above all wanted to leave Jin before the flight is forced to spend time with him on the island and that Sayid is tortured by Rousseau, something I would guess he fears a lot after seeing things in Iraq. -- Elisson 21:05, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the following from the page, and include my reasoning:
Note, however, that I do draw a distinction between this and the "themes" posting on theories from EW and USA Today and interviews with cast and crew. That is inner circle stuff, from the people directly involved with the production. For example, Damon Lindelof saying what the show is NOT is valuable information. If any disagree, feel free to remove it too or discuss here.
On May 5th, I also removed:
On August 27, Leflyman removed from the Themes section:
The theory part is original research. While the Website referenced is outside the scope of the televised series, and may or may not relate to the actual story, dependent on the writers' whims. LeFlyman 19:41, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Though this has already been posted above, I'll reiterate for this very specific example, since I've dealt with it twice today: HHGttG has not in any way been referenced on the show, and therefore, has no business being in a section that is solely concerned with references to the numbers that have appeared in the show. As I have repeatedly said, if we are going to feature POSSIBLE connections to the numbers, then we should give open space to any and every theory about them. I do not want to manage such a page, and I don't think anyone else does either. If one wants to assert a link between 42 in the show's mythos and HHGttG, then by all means, get a confirmation from a creator of the show, or find some reference to the book in the show itself. Baryonyx 02:08, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the following creeping original research -- for reasons already explicated by Baryonyx:
- The sum of the differences between the first five numbers in sequence plus the fifth number equals the sixth number. 4+7+1+7=19 and 19+23=42 - However, this curiousity is true for any sequnce of numbers 4,x,y,z,23,42. The differences between consecutive numbers in the sequence are x-4,y-x,z-y, and 23-z respectively. Also their sum along with the number 23 is x-4+y-x+z-y+23-z+23 = x-x-x+y-y+z-z+23+23-4 = 0+23+23-4 = 46-4 = 42. In fact, this is due entirely to the fact that 23 is the average of 4 and 42, and as such, any sequence of six numbers where the fifth number is the average of the first and the sixth will provide a similar result. - Take for example the sequence 10,12,14,16,20,30. Since 20 is the average of 30 and 10 ((30+10)/2 = 20), 30 will be the result of the sum of 20 (the fifth number) and the differences of the first 5 numbers.
- Significantly or not, 42 was also the answer to "life the Universe, and everything" in Douglas Adams's Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy series.
-- LeFlyman 02:56, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
In the last episode, we find that in the hatch, there is a long dark vertical shaft with a ladder leading downward, looking similar to a sewer passage from the top of a street; the ladder is broken-off just a little ways down the shaft. The question is: what is down there?
The answer is: Hell.
Pandora's box. It's an interesting theory, but flawed IMHO. First: if hope was left in the box, with the hatch now opened it's supposed to come out, right? That's sounds like the end of the show. Besides, why would Walt tell Locke not to open it? - FB
I found a picture hidden on the Oceanic Airlines website. The image appears to be of a crumbled up draft of an Exodus: Part 2 script in which the monster is revealed to be:
"HUGE. Mechanical AND biological. Godlike and profane. A massive, multi-tenticled robotic beast resembling a primordial mapinguari ― only partially obscured in a cloud of aerid smoke!"
Black smoke can be seen when Locke, Jack, Hurley, and Kate encounter the monster on their way back from "The Black Rock." In red ink is "NOT YET!" which may imply that this is the monster but should not be revealed yet. BRO_co03 06:07, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
Could the numbers be something as simple as a mystical combination lock? The ship carrying Mira Furlan crashed after they heard the Numbers, and the specific positions of the right people (or the Hurley influenced people) in the right places could have cause an opening into what is to all extents and purposes, the Bermuda Triangle.
Such a theory does not preclude the Radio signals being able to pass in and out, though garbled (no survivors/we are the survivors of Oceanic Flight...).
Also, it should be pointed out that since the order the numbers were placed in different revealed areas (the radio transmission, the numbers on the side of the hatch) it can not be ascertained which is the origin and which is a copy. The 'insanity' surrounding the numbers can excuse anything, storytelling wise. -- 82.6.182.220 23:30, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Suggest a minor change from Lost (2004 television series) to Lost (ABC TV series) or something similar? It just keeps bothering me that i see the "2004" in the title when it'll soon be in its second season and has gone well after 2004. Thunderbrand 21:21, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
I was watching some old Alias episodes, more specifically the episode Time Will Tell from season one. In this episode, Sydney encounters a hatch in the wilderness that resembles "The Hatch" from Lost greatly. The only difference is that the Alias one is smaller, is ornamented, and has a wooden ladder. Something to add to the "miscellaneous section" as a reference to Alias?-- Imperialles 19:27, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
OK, please humour me. I've only seen the pilot of Lost, but...it sounds from the episode summaries (particularly Special) that Walt is like Patrick Danville from Insomnia and, ultimately, The Dark Tower. mat_x 08:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
The whole section seems like some very dodgy numerology, and probably original research, especially the smaller numbers. It needs to be seriously cut back. ed g2s • talk 22:09, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Like many elements of the show, the "Numbers" lead to a lot of speculation. Clearly, there's quite a bit of material already generated for the section. How about breaking it out as its own article? LeFlyman 18:51, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
"The series was developed exclusively by ABC: former studio executive Lloyd Braun pitched an idea about a plane crashing on a remote island to series creator J.J. Abrams in January 2004" should perhaps be removed for the time being.
A man by the name of Anthony Spinner filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court alleging that he was hired to write, produce and develop the script some 30 years ago. He is suing US network ABC and Touchstone Television seeking unspecified damages for breach of contract and fraud, according to trade publication The Hollywood Reporter.
Spinner claims he was hired by Sid and Mary Krofft Productions in 1977 to develop an idea for an ABC series called Lost, about stranded plane crash survivors who encounter strange creatures and dangerous characters. Jachin 12:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Someone else thought of the very original idea of a plane crashing onto a mysterious land where strange things happen to the survivors? I mean, that's nothing at all like Jules Verne's 1874 book Mysterious Island or 1912's Arthur Conan Doyle story The Lost World or 1954's Lord of the Flies or 1999's Peter Benchley's Amazon, or even other televised " survivor" series like Krofft's own 1974 kid's show Land of the Lost or 1964's Gilligan's Island -- which itself was a comedy rip-off of the 1962 Japanese horror classic Matango (aka Attack of the Mushroom People). In other words, the setting isn't original (or even the name), so it would be impossible for Spinner to claim he developed it. LeFlyman 19:45, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
As the hidden images and information on the Oceanic Airlines website have a lot to do with further informed reading and understanding of this series, I would like to put i to all of you that we submit found images under this discussion link.
Just paste them all in line up top here, comment below, just to keep things neat.
Images
Text
On the front page of the site are the following entries: -
-- Jachin
Why is the airdate listed for the UK? There is no reason for this to be included for every episode, the series did not air in the UK first and it's already been shown in many other countries and now for some reason the airdate is given for both channel 4 and e4. Does anyone else think this should be removed? -- Adam 12:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm with you. Only the original airdate is necessary. Subsequent re-airings and international syndication dates are beyond the needs of the article. While the show may be popular in the UK, it is a US television production, and the UK broadcasts are significantly later than the showings were initially scheduled. Plus, once one starts adding in British and Irish airdates, where does one stop? Why not every market's broadcast date? I think as with every article, a balance needs to be reached between the appropriate and excessive amount of detail. LeFlyman 18:49, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Despite being from the UK, I also agree with this. Especially given that there is a seperate column for E4 with no explanation as to what this means. For those not living in the UK this could be confusing and is unnesacary. A seperate list article could be created with airdates for all the networks worldwide, otherwise the table should only show the original airdates. Jackqu7 17:36, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not really a great Wikipedia contributer anymore.. but I took User:Jackqu7's idea and made it into an article - Airdates of Lost. There it can have all the airdate and showing times that people want, and not mess up the main article with picky information. If anyone thinks the new article will be worthless, say here and I'll put it up for speedy delete. At least this way though, the UK column can be deleted and the US column changed to "original airdate". — CuaHL 02:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Ok, the airdates have now been removed from the main article and a link has been added to Airdates of Lost. The new article is coming along well but we still need more info, please contribute if you can. (In my last message, I said "There is no reason for this to be edited out of the old article", I mean "not to be edited out". Sorry if this caused any confusion.) Jackqu7 16:20, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Should a list of broadcasters be created or is there already one on a "subpage" ? -- Get_It 14:38, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Seems like K1Bond007, Leflyman and myself are having some similar feelings about the state of the article. IMHO, there is far too much trivia, and far too much extraneous information on the page now. Most of the things we have here would probably be more appropriate on either a fansite (examples of the numbers, miscellaneous "references" of all kinds) or entertainment sites like IMDB (trivia about creating characters for actors, etc.). I haven't done anything yet because of this debate over the move (I'm assuming we have an impending move SOMEWHERE, even if the location isn't determined yet), but what are people's thoughts on trimming this down a bit? Baryonyx 05:29, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
The important things to keep from the trivia section, IMO, are black and white, redemption, Boone's message, the numbers, and the philosopher names. All else is expendable. 16:59, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Has anyone heard about or can confirm if this so called 'Genetic Mirror Theory' book/theory by Marsille Roussaurealy exists? See here for details http://www.ericd.net/2005_09_18_blogger_archive.inc#112735774691079919 (The page I found it on.)
If so, this could really be the theory the writers of lost are using to underpin the whole story of Lost. It seems to it quite nicely if its real.
Can someone please confirm this theory isn't made up and if not, any thoughts on how much it relates to Lost? I did a few Google searches but couldn't find much. I guess if the Desmond on the island from this weeks episode doesn't remember Jack then it's a big possibility.
Hope I've put this query in the appropriate spot,
Thx -- 59.167.67.45 09:02, 22 September 2005
Reads like a fake to me, and smacks of hoax. I find no reference to any "Marsille Roussau" or "Genetic Mirror Theory." In any event, Wikipedia is not the place to propose Original Research like this -- LeFlyman 17:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Case closed: http://www.livejournal.com/users/mattalcala/15575.html#cutid1 LeFlyman 23:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Most of the information on the survivors is duplicated at Characters of Lost. Whatever information isn't duplicated there should be moved. "Characters of Lost" is better suited this. K1Bond007 05:56, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
Theory regarding Ethan Rom:
Second is Ethan Rom, who is first seen hunting with Locke as one of the survivors. However, in "Raised by Another", Hurley discovers that Ethan is not one of the survivors of the plane crash. Ethan's real name is Erwin Rommel, one of the original Nazi's who discovered the Island. Island contains the fountain of youth hence his young features.
Mattlach 18:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know if this really is something to add to the themes section, but I think it is worth mentioning here at least. My friend and I talked a bit about Lost today and he mentioned something that I haven't noticed earlier, but that seems reasonable. Many of the characters have, on the island, been facing what might be fears and nightmares. We found at least four "coinsidences" worth looking up:
Might also mention the fact that Sun that above all wanted to leave Jin before the flight is forced to spend time with him on the island and that Sayid is tortured by Rousseau, something I would guess he fears a lot after seeing things in Iraq. -- Elisson 21:05, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the following from the page, and include my reasoning:
Note, however, that I do draw a distinction between this and the "themes" posting on theories from EW and USA Today and interviews with cast and crew. That is inner circle stuff, from the people directly involved with the production. For example, Damon Lindelof saying what the show is NOT is valuable information. If any disagree, feel free to remove it too or discuss here.
On May 5th, I also removed:
On August 27, Leflyman removed from the Themes section:
The theory part is original research. While the Website referenced is outside the scope of the televised series, and may or may not relate to the actual story, dependent on the writers' whims. LeFlyman 19:41, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Though this has already been posted above, I'll reiterate for this very specific example, since I've dealt with it twice today: HHGttG has not in any way been referenced on the show, and therefore, has no business being in a section that is solely concerned with references to the numbers that have appeared in the show. As I have repeatedly said, if we are going to feature POSSIBLE connections to the numbers, then we should give open space to any and every theory about them. I do not want to manage such a page, and I don't think anyone else does either. If one wants to assert a link between 42 in the show's mythos and HHGttG, then by all means, get a confirmation from a creator of the show, or find some reference to the book in the show itself. Baryonyx 02:08, May 13, 2005 (UTC)
I have removed the following creeping original research -- for reasons already explicated by Baryonyx:
- The sum of the differences between the first five numbers in sequence plus the fifth number equals the sixth number. 4+7+1+7=19 and 19+23=42 - However, this curiousity is true for any sequnce of numbers 4,x,y,z,23,42. The differences between consecutive numbers in the sequence are x-4,y-x,z-y, and 23-z respectively. Also their sum along with the number 23 is x-4+y-x+z-y+23-z+23 = x-x-x+y-y+z-z+23+23-4 = 0+23+23-4 = 46-4 = 42. In fact, this is due entirely to the fact that 23 is the average of 4 and 42, and as such, any sequence of six numbers where the fifth number is the average of the first and the sixth will provide a similar result. - Take for example the sequence 10,12,14,16,20,30. Since 20 is the average of 30 and 10 ((30+10)/2 = 20), 30 will be the result of the sum of 20 (the fifth number) and the differences of the first 5 numbers.
- Significantly or not, 42 was also the answer to "life the Universe, and everything" in Douglas Adams's Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy series.
-- LeFlyman 02:56, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
In the last episode, we find that in the hatch, there is a long dark vertical shaft with a ladder leading downward, looking similar to a sewer passage from the top of a street; the ladder is broken-off just a little ways down the shaft. The question is: what is down there?
The answer is: Hell.
Pandora's box. It's an interesting theory, but flawed IMHO. First: if hope was left in the box, with the hatch now opened it's supposed to come out, right? That's sounds like the end of the show. Besides, why would Walt tell Locke not to open it? - FB
I found a picture hidden on the Oceanic Airlines website. The image appears to be of a crumbled up draft of an Exodus: Part 2 script in which the monster is revealed to be:
"HUGE. Mechanical AND biological. Godlike and profane. A massive, multi-tenticled robotic beast resembling a primordial mapinguari ― only partially obscured in a cloud of aerid smoke!"
Black smoke can be seen when Locke, Jack, Hurley, and Kate encounter the monster on their way back from "The Black Rock." In red ink is "NOT YET!" which may imply that this is the monster but should not be revealed yet. BRO_co03 06:07, May 30, 2005 (UTC)
Could the numbers be something as simple as a mystical combination lock? The ship carrying Mira Furlan crashed after they heard the Numbers, and the specific positions of the right people (or the Hurley influenced people) in the right places could have cause an opening into what is to all extents and purposes, the Bermuda Triangle.
Such a theory does not preclude the Radio signals being able to pass in and out, though garbled (no survivors/we are the survivors of Oceanic Flight...).
Also, it should be pointed out that since the order the numbers were placed in different revealed areas (the radio transmission, the numbers on the side of the hatch) it can not be ascertained which is the origin and which is a copy. The 'insanity' surrounding the numbers can excuse anything, storytelling wise. -- 82.6.182.220 23:30, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Suggest a minor change from Lost (2004 television series) to Lost (ABC TV series) or something similar? It just keeps bothering me that i see the "2004" in the title when it'll soon be in its second season and has gone well after 2004. Thunderbrand 21:21, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
I was watching some old Alias episodes, more specifically the episode Time Will Tell from season one. In this episode, Sydney encounters a hatch in the wilderness that resembles "The Hatch" from Lost greatly. The only difference is that the Alias one is smaller, is ornamented, and has a wooden ladder. Something to add to the "miscellaneous section" as a reference to Alias?-- Imperialles 19:27, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
OK, please humour me. I've only seen the pilot of Lost, but...it sounds from the episode summaries (particularly Special) that Walt is like Patrick Danville from Insomnia and, ultimately, The Dark Tower. mat_x 08:52, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
The whole section seems like some very dodgy numerology, and probably original research, especially the smaller numbers. It needs to be seriously cut back. ed g2s • talk 22:09, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Like many elements of the show, the "Numbers" lead to a lot of speculation. Clearly, there's quite a bit of material already generated for the section. How about breaking it out as its own article? LeFlyman 18:51, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
"The series was developed exclusively by ABC: former studio executive Lloyd Braun pitched an idea about a plane crashing on a remote island to series creator J.J. Abrams in January 2004" should perhaps be removed for the time being.
A man by the name of Anthony Spinner filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court alleging that he was hired to write, produce and develop the script some 30 years ago. He is suing US network ABC and Touchstone Television seeking unspecified damages for breach of contract and fraud, according to trade publication The Hollywood Reporter.
Spinner claims he was hired by Sid and Mary Krofft Productions in 1977 to develop an idea for an ABC series called Lost, about stranded plane crash survivors who encounter strange creatures and dangerous characters. Jachin 12:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Someone else thought of the very original idea of a plane crashing onto a mysterious land where strange things happen to the survivors? I mean, that's nothing at all like Jules Verne's 1874 book Mysterious Island or 1912's Arthur Conan Doyle story The Lost World or 1954's Lord of the Flies or 1999's Peter Benchley's Amazon, or even other televised " survivor" series like Krofft's own 1974 kid's show Land of the Lost or 1964's Gilligan's Island -- which itself was a comedy rip-off of the 1962 Japanese horror classic Matango (aka Attack of the Mushroom People). In other words, the setting isn't original (or even the name), so it would be impossible for Spinner to claim he developed it. LeFlyman 19:45, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
As the hidden images and information on the Oceanic Airlines website have a lot to do with further informed reading and understanding of this series, I would like to put i to all of you that we submit found images under this discussion link.
Just paste them all in line up top here, comment below, just to keep things neat.
Images
Text
On the front page of the site are the following entries: -
-- Jachin
Why is the airdate listed for the UK? There is no reason for this to be included for every episode, the series did not air in the UK first and it's already been shown in many other countries and now for some reason the airdate is given for both channel 4 and e4. Does anyone else think this should be removed? -- Adam 12:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm with you. Only the original airdate is necessary. Subsequent re-airings and international syndication dates are beyond the needs of the article. While the show may be popular in the UK, it is a US television production, and the UK broadcasts are significantly later than the showings were initially scheduled. Plus, once one starts adding in British and Irish airdates, where does one stop? Why not every market's broadcast date? I think as with every article, a balance needs to be reached between the appropriate and excessive amount of detail. LeFlyman 18:49, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Despite being from the UK, I also agree with this. Especially given that there is a seperate column for E4 with no explanation as to what this means. For those not living in the UK this could be confusing and is unnesacary. A seperate list article could be created with airdates for all the networks worldwide, otherwise the table should only show the original airdates. Jackqu7 17:36, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not really a great Wikipedia contributer anymore.. but I took User:Jackqu7's idea and made it into an article - Airdates of Lost. There it can have all the airdate and showing times that people want, and not mess up the main article with picky information. If anyone thinks the new article will be worthless, say here and I'll put it up for speedy delete. At least this way though, the UK column can be deleted and the US column changed to "original airdate". — CuaHL 02:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Ok, the airdates have now been removed from the main article and a link has been added to Airdates of Lost. The new article is coming along well but we still need more info, please contribute if you can. (In my last message, I said "There is no reason for this to be edited out of the old article", I mean "not to be edited out". Sorry if this caused any confusion.) Jackqu7 16:20, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Should a list of broadcasters be created or is there already one on a "subpage" ? -- Get_It 14:38, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Seems like K1Bond007, Leflyman and myself are having some similar feelings about the state of the article. IMHO, there is far too much trivia, and far too much extraneous information on the page now. Most of the things we have here would probably be more appropriate on either a fansite (examples of the numbers, miscellaneous "references" of all kinds) or entertainment sites like IMDB (trivia about creating characters for actors, etc.). I haven't done anything yet because of this debate over the move (I'm assuming we have an impending move SOMEWHERE, even if the location isn't determined yet), but what are people's thoughts on trimming this down a bit? Baryonyx 05:29, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
The important things to keep from the trivia section, IMO, are black and white, redemption, Boone's message, the numbers, and the philosopher names. All else is expendable. 16:59, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Has anyone heard about or can confirm if this so called 'Genetic Mirror Theory' book/theory by Marsille Roussaurealy exists? See here for details http://www.ericd.net/2005_09_18_blogger_archive.inc#112735774691079919 (The page I found it on.)
If so, this could really be the theory the writers of lost are using to underpin the whole story of Lost. It seems to it quite nicely if its real.
Can someone please confirm this theory isn't made up and if not, any thoughts on how much it relates to Lost? I did a few Google searches but couldn't find much. I guess if the Desmond on the island from this weeks episode doesn't remember Jack then it's a big possibility.
Hope I've put this query in the appropriate spot,
Thx -- 59.167.67.45 09:02, 22 September 2005
Reads like a fake to me, and smacks of hoax. I find no reference to any "Marsille Roussau" or "Genetic Mirror Theory." In any event, Wikipedia is not the place to propose Original Research like this -- LeFlyman 17:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Case closed: http://www.livejournal.com/users/mattalcala/15575.html#cutid1 LeFlyman 23:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)