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I do find this article interesting but it does seem to be a little speculative especially as there are no sources. - try google news search and the links at the bottom. if you understand spanish try youtube and mexican news sources. there has been an amazing blackout on the part of u.s. news on drug war violence until lately. -anonymous
I have added a link to an FBI report to the U.S. House of Representatives. I've been doing research on this group for a screenplay I'm writing and the Zetas are very much a real group. I've been in Mexico several times and the group is well known there. June 19, 2006 - Jorge Escobar
Uh dude, Z-4 is in charge now, not Osiel Cardenas. I unfortunately can't cite this because it's hearsay from a guy who's uncle is in the zetas, in Laredo Texas. I personally can't wait to become a cop to bust these idiots.
The sources do not reinforce the point of the article, which is to inform the reader that the media claims about Zetas are exaggerated or false. This article sounds more like a Snopes article than anything, and its claims about the Zetas are not well-substantiated or refuted in this article. Dirtydan667 11:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I lived in Texas for 17 years and ran with EMS in the Border Area. We were frequently briefed by the law enforcement community about the Zetas and Negros. There were many news reports, even on CNN, Foxnews, etc. -- Degen Earthfast ( talk) 13:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)-- Degen Earthfast ( talk) 13:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
"Los Zetas" are quite real and dangerous. In the following days I´ll try to gather references. Most of them will be local mexican news pages as "El Excelsior", "El Dictamen", "El Universal" etc. Would that help this article?
Here is an example:
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/535255.html
Hope you don´t have much problems using a translator. Long story short: "Los Zetas" are killing all the illegal merchants in Veracruz and putting their own instead.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.23.91.242 ( talk) 22:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
If the School of The Americas is at Ft. Benning, Georgia, Why did they train in the sweltering North Carolina heat? - b/c they would be deployed in mexico?
There are still numerous reports on groups of individuals dressed in para-military gear, in "offical looking" Humvees with heavy machine guns mounted, firing at and attacking U.S. Border Patrol Agents, and Civilians alilke.
the zetas are real and very very dangerous im from a bordertown and leave it at that! ive actually been in a restaurant when they come in broad daylight ask for everyone to raise their arms put their cell where they can see it order their food eat then pay for everyone and leave!!! trust me i wish u could say oh well free food but its soo scary! now what i heard is that not only where they trained in the us but have been trained in different countries with great military power. they where hired but the mx gov to clear out narcos and as soon as that was almost accomplished they turned their back on the gov and decided to take over the business, hence the start of a great power war everyones talking about.
Los Zetas seem to have business dealings with U.S. gangs by providing/smuggling the drugs; I think it does not imply they are active gangs in every named state. If so, I'd like to see and include references to that effect. For the time being, I strongly suggest to exclude Category:Gangs in Texas, Category:Gangs in California, Category:Gangs in Florida, Category:Gangs in Chicago, Illinois, Category:Gangs in New York City, Category:Gangs in Detroit, Michigan, Category:Gangs in Louisiana. Cheers. BatteryIncluded ( talk) 01:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I have assessed this as start class for Military History project but am not entirely convinced this falls into the scope of the project. This article is about a criminal organization that was started by ex-military personnel, not a military organization itself. Also their activities are criminal regardless of their tactical and technological sophistication. -- dashiellx ( talk) 12:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
A couple of notes regarding this article. The training facility for U.S. allies formerly known as the "School of the Americas" is located on Ft. Benning, Georgia. The official name - changed around 1999 or 2000 - is now the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security and Cooperation, or WHInSeC, I believe. Check my nomenclature.
The special operations command at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, might also have training programs for allied troops - no doubt they do. I have no knowledge of this subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.74.36 ( talk) 18:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Literally they mean the people who kill members from the Zeta Cartel. And have killed numerous Zeta members. I believe they are also known as the Caballeros Templares, the Templar Knights. I think we should add a section or start finding some information about the Anti-Zeta people (Mata Zetas) and debunking their myths.
I am not signing my name because I rather keep myself anonymous for various reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.76.170 ( talk) 03:49, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
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Mexico Fears Rise of Vigilante Justice; Gang's Claim It Killed 35 Violent Traffickers to Help Society Suggests Arrival of Paramilitary Groups in SEPTEMBER 29, 2011 WSJ page A10 in print. 97.87.29.188 ( talk) 22:09, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
I have been pondering this question for quite some time, and I have arrived to the conclusion (perhaps not the corrrect one, so that's why I'm consulting the talk page) that the actual founder is Osiel Cárdenas Guillén. He was the one who sought and recruited Los Zetas, and appointed Arturo Guzmán Decena alias Z-1, as the leader of the Gulf Cartel's armed wing. Osiel, techinically, founded Los Zetas, since he hired the mercenary group to work for his organization and his personal bodyguards. And, Los Zetas did not exist beforehand. Jesús Enrique Rejón Aguilar alias El Mamito claims after his arrest in a video posted by the Federal police forces of Mexico that Osiel Cárdenas Guillén is the founder of his organization. [1] I understand that this might not be encyclopedic, but it's still a valuable testimony from someone that is considered a "original Zeta."
Anyways, what's your call on this? Was Guzmán Decena only the leader? Should both be included as founders? Thanks. ComputerJA ( talk) 20:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
This is Barrett Brown. The section dealing with OpCartel has several errors, starting with the first sentence, which seems to imply that OpCartel began with me. In fact, it began with a video put out by Anonymous Veracruz which had gotten 250,000 views before I got involved, at which point a number of media outlets had already reported on the kidnapping, the demands, etc. Towards the end, it's claimed that "the whole Anonymous organization" distanced itself from OpCartel. There is absolutely no mechanism by which this could occur, since Anonymous is not an organization in the traditional sense and there is no outlet that "speaks" for it. Between these two major errors are a number of smaller ones, but I'd like to see those addressed first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.103.241 ( talk) 00:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think I should edit anything that involves me, but I've gone ahead and removed the sentence about the "whole Anonymous organization" so that it can be replaced by someone else. Barrett — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.119.166.127 ( talk) 23:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I feel that the Terrorism section should have another name, like Massacres or something similar. The word terrorism might actually fall under contentious labels (see WP:TERRORIST), and we should make sure that this label is extremely well-sourced, and that the sources "establish the existence of a controversy and that the term is not used to grant a fringe viewpointundue weight." As for the 2011 Monterrey casino attack, Sylvia Longmire, a drug war analyst, pointed out that this attack may not necessarily be a narcoterrorist one, because the Zetas were not planning a death toll of that magnitude. [2] [3] Now, for the 2010 Tamaulipas massacre and the 2011 Tamaulipas massacre, the Zetas (according to the testimonies, of course) killed the civilians because they believed that the Gulf Cartel was going to recruit them. [4] Hence, it was simply another tragic incident of the turf war between these two groups. As for the 2008 Morelia grenade attacks, the three "Zetas" that were captured were, according to La Jornada, under the influence of narcotics; it was also mentioned that they were only hired to do this attack. [5] The massacre of the 27 farmers in Guatemala was a result of the turf with the Gulf Cartel after a dispute for lost merchandise. [6] The 2010 Puebla oil pipeline explosion was the result of the Zetas stealing from the pipes, [7] and the 2011 Durango massacres does not have sufficient info to conclude it was a terrorist attacks.
I'm not so sure if "heating up the plaza" should be included as a terrorist attack or as a simple turf war tactic. I think the latter.
What do you think? What should the section be called? ComputerJA ( talk) 18:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
manner as al Qaeda, the Taliban or Hezbollah each sharing a desire, and using similar tactics to gain political and economic influence. These are acts of terrorism. Black’s Law defines TERRORISM (note: their all caps, not mine)as: activity that… appears to be intended--(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.According to the Congressional Research Service, “The massacres of young people and migrants, the killing and disappearance of Mexican journalists, the use of torture, and the phenomena of car bombs have received wide media coverage and have led some analysts to question if the violence has been transformed into something new, beyond the typical violence that has characterized the trade. For instance, some observers have raised the concern that the Mexican DTOs may be acting more like domestic terrorists.” The same info is repeated by a reliable media source here [9] Niteshift36 ( talk) 15:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
(Below are RS claiming cartels are not terrorists).
Let's just aim for a neutral name for the section. If you want to hear my opinion, it all comes down to how we interprete the word "terrorism," but since there is a huge disagreement on what the cartels are, let's just call it a tie and aim for a new name that does not promote either side. Thanks and sorry for the long post. ComputerJA ( talk) 03:07, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey. I wanted to know if it is fine for me to upload the logo of
Los Zetas to this article. I uploaded a picture on
Horst Overdick's article from the U.S. federal government and it had a logo of Los Zetas. (See:
) Here's the logo too:
[22]. Is it fine for me to upload it and put it on the infobox?
ComputerJA (
talk)
03:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. BatteryIncluded ( talk) 18:03, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Los Zetas Cartel → Los Zetas – reading the article, it seems that this subject's name is "Los Zetas" and not "Los Zetas Cartel". If anything, it should be "Los Zetas cartel", because the word "cartel" isn't part of its proper name. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 09:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
The section involving Anonymous is both silly and speculative, and does not deserve the space that it has. I will remove it, and perhaps if it must exist it can with a link to another page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.4.21.127 ( talk) 22:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Until this is confirmed, the information is still a rumor. WP:SPECULATION. Nonetheless, here's an article about the rumored split in the organization. It's pretty interesting. Maybe after it materializes (if it does), this publication can serve the article well. [26] ComputerJA ( talk) 03:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
no mention of the leader since Morales' arrest? 208.96.87.57 ( talk) 03:48, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
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The list of allies includes Iran's Quds force. The source listed provides no evidence of any link between Quds force and Los Zetas. The source claims that Iran's alleged presence in Mexico is a cover-up by Democrats and the media, and goes on to use this alleged connection to advocate for a US-Mexico border wall. It later goes on to claim Iran is sending terrorist sleeper agents into the United States via their connections to Mexican Cartels, and that Mexican politicians are running for office in the United States Southwest.
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I do find this article interesting but it does seem to be a little speculative especially as there are no sources. - try google news search and the links at the bottom. if you understand spanish try youtube and mexican news sources. there has been an amazing blackout on the part of u.s. news on drug war violence until lately. -anonymous
I have added a link to an FBI report to the U.S. House of Representatives. I've been doing research on this group for a screenplay I'm writing and the Zetas are very much a real group. I've been in Mexico several times and the group is well known there. June 19, 2006 - Jorge Escobar
Uh dude, Z-4 is in charge now, not Osiel Cardenas. I unfortunately can't cite this because it's hearsay from a guy who's uncle is in the zetas, in Laredo Texas. I personally can't wait to become a cop to bust these idiots.
The sources do not reinforce the point of the article, which is to inform the reader that the media claims about Zetas are exaggerated or false. This article sounds more like a Snopes article than anything, and its claims about the Zetas are not well-substantiated or refuted in this article. Dirtydan667 11:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I lived in Texas for 17 years and ran with EMS in the Border Area. We were frequently briefed by the law enforcement community about the Zetas and Negros. There were many news reports, even on CNN, Foxnews, etc. -- Degen Earthfast ( talk) 13:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)-- Degen Earthfast ( talk) 13:26, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
"Los Zetas" are quite real and dangerous. In the following days I´ll try to gather references. Most of them will be local mexican news pages as "El Excelsior", "El Dictamen", "El Universal" etc. Would that help this article?
Here is an example:
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/535255.html
Hope you don´t have much problems using a translator. Long story short: "Los Zetas" are killing all the illegal merchants in Veracruz and putting their own instead.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.23.91.242 ( talk) 22:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
If the School of The Americas is at Ft. Benning, Georgia, Why did they train in the sweltering North Carolina heat? - b/c they would be deployed in mexico?
There are still numerous reports on groups of individuals dressed in para-military gear, in "offical looking" Humvees with heavy machine guns mounted, firing at and attacking U.S. Border Patrol Agents, and Civilians alilke.
the zetas are real and very very dangerous im from a bordertown and leave it at that! ive actually been in a restaurant when they come in broad daylight ask for everyone to raise their arms put their cell where they can see it order their food eat then pay for everyone and leave!!! trust me i wish u could say oh well free food but its soo scary! now what i heard is that not only where they trained in the us but have been trained in different countries with great military power. they where hired but the mx gov to clear out narcos and as soon as that was almost accomplished they turned their back on the gov and decided to take over the business, hence the start of a great power war everyones talking about.
Los Zetas seem to have business dealings with U.S. gangs by providing/smuggling the drugs; I think it does not imply they are active gangs in every named state. If so, I'd like to see and include references to that effect. For the time being, I strongly suggest to exclude Category:Gangs in Texas, Category:Gangs in California, Category:Gangs in Florida, Category:Gangs in Chicago, Illinois, Category:Gangs in New York City, Category:Gangs in Detroit, Michigan, Category:Gangs in Louisiana. Cheers. BatteryIncluded ( talk) 01:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I have assessed this as start class for Military History project but am not entirely convinced this falls into the scope of the project. This article is about a criminal organization that was started by ex-military personnel, not a military organization itself. Also their activities are criminal regardless of their tactical and technological sophistication. -- dashiellx ( talk) 12:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
A couple of notes regarding this article. The training facility for U.S. allies formerly known as the "School of the Americas" is located on Ft. Benning, Georgia. The official name - changed around 1999 or 2000 - is now the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security and Cooperation, or WHInSeC, I believe. Check my nomenclature.
The special operations command at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, might also have training programs for allied troops - no doubt they do. I have no knowledge of this subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.74.36 ( talk) 18:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Literally they mean the people who kill members from the Zeta Cartel. And have killed numerous Zeta members. I believe they are also known as the Caballeros Templares, the Templar Knights. I think we should add a section or start finding some information about the Anti-Zeta people (Mata Zetas) and debunking their myths.
I am not signing my name because I rather keep myself anonymous for various reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.76.170 ( talk) 03:49, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
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Mexico Fears Rise of Vigilante Justice; Gang's Claim It Killed 35 Violent Traffickers to Help Society Suggests Arrival of Paramilitary Groups in SEPTEMBER 29, 2011 WSJ page A10 in print. 97.87.29.188 ( talk) 22:09, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
I have been pondering this question for quite some time, and I have arrived to the conclusion (perhaps not the corrrect one, so that's why I'm consulting the talk page) that the actual founder is Osiel Cárdenas Guillén. He was the one who sought and recruited Los Zetas, and appointed Arturo Guzmán Decena alias Z-1, as the leader of the Gulf Cartel's armed wing. Osiel, techinically, founded Los Zetas, since he hired the mercenary group to work for his organization and his personal bodyguards. And, Los Zetas did not exist beforehand. Jesús Enrique Rejón Aguilar alias El Mamito claims after his arrest in a video posted by the Federal police forces of Mexico that Osiel Cárdenas Guillén is the founder of his organization. [1] I understand that this might not be encyclopedic, but it's still a valuable testimony from someone that is considered a "original Zeta."
Anyways, what's your call on this? Was Guzmán Decena only the leader? Should both be included as founders? Thanks. ComputerJA ( talk) 20:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
This is Barrett Brown. The section dealing with OpCartel has several errors, starting with the first sentence, which seems to imply that OpCartel began with me. In fact, it began with a video put out by Anonymous Veracruz which had gotten 250,000 views before I got involved, at which point a number of media outlets had already reported on the kidnapping, the demands, etc. Towards the end, it's claimed that "the whole Anonymous organization" distanced itself from OpCartel. There is absolutely no mechanism by which this could occur, since Anonymous is not an organization in the traditional sense and there is no outlet that "speaks" for it. Between these two major errors are a number of smaller ones, but I'd like to see those addressed first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.103.241 ( talk) 00:39, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think I should edit anything that involves me, but I've gone ahead and removed the sentence about the "whole Anonymous organization" so that it can be replaced by someone else. Barrett — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.119.166.127 ( talk) 23:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
I feel that the Terrorism section should have another name, like Massacres or something similar. The word terrorism might actually fall under contentious labels (see WP:TERRORIST), and we should make sure that this label is extremely well-sourced, and that the sources "establish the existence of a controversy and that the term is not used to grant a fringe viewpointundue weight." As for the 2011 Monterrey casino attack, Sylvia Longmire, a drug war analyst, pointed out that this attack may not necessarily be a narcoterrorist one, because the Zetas were not planning a death toll of that magnitude. [2] [3] Now, for the 2010 Tamaulipas massacre and the 2011 Tamaulipas massacre, the Zetas (according to the testimonies, of course) killed the civilians because they believed that the Gulf Cartel was going to recruit them. [4] Hence, it was simply another tragic incident of the turf war between these two groups. As for the 2008 Morelia grenade attacks, the three "Zetas" that were captured were, according to La Jornada, under the influence of narcotics; it was also mentioned that they were only hired to do this attack. [5] The massacre of the 27 farmers in Guatemala was a result of the turf with the Gulf Cartel after a dispute for lost merchandise. [6] The 2010 Puebla oil pipeline explosion was the result of the Zetas stealing from the pipes, [7] and the 2011 Durango massacres does not have sufficient info to conclude it was a terrorist attacks.
I'm not so sure if "heating up the plaza" should be included as a terrorist attack or as a simple turf war tactic. I think the latter.
What do you think? What should the section be called? ComputerJA ( talk) 18:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
manner as al Qaeda, the Taliban or Hezbollah each sharing a desire, and using similar tactics to gain political and economic influence. These are acts of terrorism. Black’s Law defines TERRORISM (note: their all caps, not mine)as: activity that… appears to be intended--(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.According to the Congressional Research Service, “The massacres of young people and migrants, the killing and disappearance of Mexican journalists, the use of torture, and the phenomena of car bombs have received wide media coverage and have led some analysts to question if the violence has been transformed into something new, beyond the typical violence that has characterized the trade. For instance, some observers have raised the concern that the Mexican DTOs may be acting more like domestic terrorists.” The same info is repeated by a reliable media source here [9] Niteshift36 ( talk) 15:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
(Below are RS claiming cartels are not terrorists).
Let's just aim for a neutral name for the section. If you want to hear my opinion, it all comes down to how we interprete the word "terrorism," but since there is a huge disagreement on what the cartels are, let's just call it a tie and aim for a new name that does not promote either side. Thanks and sorry for the long post. ComputerJA ( talk) 03:07, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey. I wanted to know if it is fine for me to upload the logo of
Los Zetas to this article. I uploaded a picture on
Horst Overdick's article from the U.S. federal government and it had a logo of Los Zetas. (See:
) Here's the logo too:
[22]. Is it fine for me to upload it and put it on the infobox?
ComputerJA (
talk)
03:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. BatteryIncluded ( talk) 18:03, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Los Zetas Cartel → Los Zetas – reading the article, it seems that this subject's name is "Los Zetas" and not "Los Zetas Cartel". If anything, it should be "Los Zetas cartel", because the word "cartel" isn't part of its proper name. -- Ohconfucius ¡digame! 09:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
The section involving Anonymous is both silly and speculative, and does not deserve the space that it has. I will remove it, and perhaps if it must exist it can with a link to another page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.4.21.127 ( talk) 22:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Until this is confirmed, the information is still a rumor. WP:SPECULATION. Nonetheless, here's an article about the rumored split in the organization. It's pretty interesting. Maybe after it materializes (if it does), this publication can serve the article well. [26] ComputerJA ( talk) 03:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
no mention of the leader since Morales' arrest? 208.96.87.57 ( talk) 03:48, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
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The list of allies includes Iran's Quds force. The source listed provides no evidence of any link between Quds force and Los Zetas. The source claims that Iran's alleged presence in Mexico is a cover-up by Democrats and the media, and goes on to use this alleged connection to advocate for a US-Mexico border wall. It later goes on to claim Iran is sending terrorist sleeper agents into the United States via their connections to Mexican Cartels, and that Mexican politicians are running for office in the United States Southwest.