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This promises to be a really interesting article and very significant over the next few years with environmentalism, Ken Livingstone's congestion charge, the 2012 Summer Olympics and media focus on London as 2012 approaches. Looking at it from the physics angle, please can you think about/address my comments:
I am reasonably sure the ground temperature in the deep tube is fairly constant summer to winter. Why don't the trains in summer 'cool' down much. Do they carry a lot of heat into the tunnels from when they were on the surface being heated by the sun?
What is the contribution from sun heating before they enter the tunnels?
Can (are) the trains painted in infrared reflective paint to reduce this?
How is the kinetic energy dissipated in regenerative braking stored? Does it go straight back into the power rails (I would think very inefficient) or is it stored perhaps in batteries which could also be used for train lighting perhaps?
The 50 gigawatts per day contribution from passengers confuses me and I think it needs looking at. If he refers to a period of time he should use energy. A power is an energy conversion rate so I would suggest it varies through the day peaking with the maximum number of passengers. Also at about 50 W per passenger, 50 GW needs 1E9 passengers to be using it at the same time, I don't think so.
Actually I am not convinced that the human body heat is that significant down there unless you get stuck for some time in a crowded train. I think it is more to do with sun heating and hot air from the surface being sucked in?
Does the piston effect actually cool the trains much if not much air passes the trains? Perhaps there should be a more controlled change of air.
Certainly conventional air conditioners on the trains would just move heat from one place to another and add extra heat as well surely very wasteful.
The new section of the Jubilee line seems much cooler than the old tube lines, how did they achieve that? ChrisAngove 22:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as i understand it regenerative braking can return electric energy into the power rails, but i read somewhere that it didnt really work since it interfered with the signalling system. Most of the energy probably comes from the trains. The traction motors and the brakes use up (and emit) a lot of energy. The tube moves about 1 billion ([ million to be precise] which is almost 1E9) passengers per year, so the maths would work if all these people were moved in tunnels. The piston effect moves air, it doesnt seem to cool the trains. It can be used for ventilation Ysignal 18:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I have tried to update this article by putting on a reference to a lecture given by - Kevin Payne Director of the Transport for London's 'Cooling the Tube' Program on the 11th March 2008 and full notes from people attending that very full lecture in London. It was somewhat demoralising to have the links initially immediately removed by someone who could not have spent more than two seconds looking at them. This article is clearly old and has not been updated for years. So I was only trying to make it up to date with something very relevant. On the one hand you ask people to contribute to the stub, on the other you initially delete their references. It is only because I feel passionate about the Tube that I put the link back and am pleased to say that is has remained. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.114.188 ( talk) 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
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It was exactly the info I needed Willem640 ( talk) 18:09, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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This promises to be a really interesting article and very significant over the next few years with environmentalism, Ken Livingstone's congestion charge, the 2012 Summer Olympics and media focus on London as 2012 approaches. Looking at it from the physics angle, please can you think about/address my comments:
I am reasonably sure the ground temperature in the deep tube is fairly constant summer to winter. Why don't the trains in summer 'cool' down much. Do they carry a lot of heat into the tunnels from when they were on the surface being heated by the sun?
What is the contribution from sun heating before they enter the tunnels?
Can (are) the trains painted in infrared reflective paint to reduce this?
How is the kinetic energy dissipated in regenerative braking stored? Does it go straight back into the power rails (I would think very inefficient) or is it stored perhaps in batteries which could also be used for train lighting perhaps?
The 50 gigawatts per day contribution from passengers confuses me and I think it needs looking at. If he refers to a period of time he should use energy. A power is an energy conversion rate so I would suggest it varies through the day peaking with the maximum number of passengers. Also at about 50 W per passenger, 50 GW needs 1E9 passengers to be using it at the same time, I don't think so.
Actually I am not convinced that the human body heat is that significant down there unless you get stuck for some time in a crowded train. I think it is more to do with sun heating and hot air from the surface being sucked in?
Does the piston effect actually cool the trains much if not much air passes the trains? Perhaps there should be a more controlled change of air.
Certainly conventional air conditioners on the trains would just move heat from one place to another and add extra heat as well surely very wasteful.
The new section of the Jubilee line seems much cooler than the old tube lines, how did they achieve that? ChrisAngove 22:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as i understand it regenerative braking can return electric energy into the power rails, but i read somewhere that it didnt really work since it interfered with the signalling system. Most of the energy probably comes from the trains. The traction motors and the brakes use up (and emit) a lot of energy. The tube moves about 1 billion ([ million to be precise] which is almost 1E9) passengers per year, so the maths would work if all these people were moved in tunnels. The piston effect moves air, it doesnt seem to cool the trains. It can be used for ventilation Ysignal 18:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I have tried to update this article by putting on a reference to a lecture given by - Kevin Payne Director of the Transport for London's 'Cooling the Tube' Program on the 11th March 2008 and full notes from people attending that very full lecture in London. It was somewhat demoralising to have the links initially immediately removed by someone who could not have spent more than two seconds looking at them. This article is clearly old and has not been updated for years. So I was only trying to make it up to date with something very relevant. On the one hand you ask people to contribute to the stub, on the other you initially delete their references. It is only because I feel passionate about the Tube that I put the link back and am pleased to say that is has remained. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.114.188 ( talk) 02:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Is this for real? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.202.89.125 ( talk) 17:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
London Underground cooling. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:26, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:23, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
It was exactly the info I needed Willem640 ( talk) 18:09, 26 July 2019 (UTC)