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If disregarding from London's most central parts , the City, Westminster etc, anyone who knows why the areas south of the river are much poorer covered compared to northern London ? Like to Croydon, Woking, and Bromley - not more remote than for instance Uxbridge, Watford or Barking. Before the latest extension of Jubelee Line, not even Southwark had any tube station, I believe. Is there a known reason for this ? Any known plans or ideas for an extension of Victoria Line south of Brixton ? (It also seems a bit strange, that Northern Line is the one which has most stations south of the river) Boeing720 ( talk) 00:15, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
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I appreciate that a national newspaper is the reference, but my count of the number of stations south of the Thames puts the total at 28 (Richmond, Kew Gardens, Wimbledon, Wimbledon Park, Southfields, East Putney, Morden, South Wimbledon, Colliers Wood, Tooting Broadway, Tooting Bec, Balham, Clapham South, Clapham Common, Clapham North, Stockwell, Oval, Kennington, Waterloo, Elephant & Castle, Borough, London Bridge, Brixton, Vauxhall, Lambeth North, Southwark, Bermondsey, Canada Water). Not a massive difference, but still incorrect, no? Julianhall ( talk) 22:08, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
The given sentence is far from being a truth. Hong Kong MTR implemented Suica-based contactless payment in 1997. Tokyo implemented in 1998. Moscow Metro implemented Mifare-based (NFC) in 1998. Elk Salmon ( talk)
I note that the "Transport for London" years doesn't really explain the substantial changes and improvements to the Tube in the last 20 years or so.
Unprecedented investment compared to previous decades, massive station upgrades, step free access, large orders of new rolling stock, automatic signalling, the Olympic Games etc - and most importantly the huge growth in riders since the 2000s - given that TFL's era of the Tube is 20 years old, I think this counts as "history" rather than "recent developments"!
I tried to wordsmith a sentence or two but couldn't sum it up very well. I wonder if anyone would have a go? Turini2 ( talk) 20:19, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello I fundamentally disagree with @ C2A06: most recent edit - claiming that "occasionally the Londerground" is what the London Underground is called. I initially reverted this as incorrect, especially without reference. Personally, I've never heard anyone in London ever say it. The newly added citation is a reddit post from 2015 with no upvotes and just 2 comments (one which disagrees, the other is a crude joke). It does not back up the assertion that the Tube is "occasionally [called] the Londerground".
My brief google/twitter search comes up with very few results - it seems that no one actually calls the Tube this. Given WP:RV, I've come here for some consensus on the issue. Should the edit be reverted? Turini2 ( talk) 07:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Support removing it. Nobody calls it that and some random person on Reddit isn’t a reliable source. Blythwood ( talk) 07:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I think there are only 7 on the Central line. Buckhurst Hill, Chigwell, Debden, Epping, Loughton, Roding Valley and Theydon Bois.
Wikipedia correctly says Grange Hill Station (which was outside Greater London) is in LB Redbridge - this has been the case since the 1990s boundary change https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/2091/made?view=plain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.135.239 ( talk) 17:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks @redrose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.135.239 ( talk) 07:50, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
a) The panel on this page says that LU serves 270 stations but owns 260. No source is given for the 260, and I think it is incorrect. With help, I deduced that these 13 stations are served by LU, but as they are not (according to the National Rail website) managed by LU it seems likely they are not owned by LU:
1 Barking 2 Ealing Broadway 3 Heathrow T2/3 4 Heathrow T4 5 Heathrow T5 6 Kensington Olympia 7 Richmond 8 Stratford 9 Tottenham Hale 10 Upminster 11 West Hampstead 12 Willesden Junction 13 Wimbledon
b) 29 stations owned by NR but run by LU [1]:
1 Amersham 2 Blackhorse Road 3 Canada Water 4 Chalfont & Latimer 5 Chorleywood 6 Farringdon 7 Greenford 8 Gunnersbury 9 Harlesden 10 Harrow & Wealdstone 11 Harrow-On-The-Hill 12 Highbury & Islington 13 Kensal Green 14 Kentish Town 15 Kenton 16 Kew Gardens 17 Moorgate 18 North Wembley 19 Old Street 20 Queens Park 21 Rickmansworth 22 South Kenton 23 South Ruislip 24 Stonebridge Park 25 Wembley Central 26 West Brompton 27 West Ham 28 West Ruislip 29 Whitechapel
The conclusion seems to be that assuming it serves 270 stations, it owns 228. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
82.47.135.239 (
talk)
07:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Noting @ Sandstein's good faith and reasoned redirect of Track access controller when closing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Track access controller (2nd nomination) here creates a WP:SURPRISE that really needs to be addressed and I feel concerns attempts to address in this article might (I stress might) easily be WP:UNDUE, marginally disruptive and not an improvement Djm-leighpark ( talk) 09:20, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
In the latest update of my tube map for Battersea Power Station extension, I adjusted few routes including those around Kennington, so it would be easier to add a little spur path between the Charing Cross and Bank branches south of Kennington, if you guys believe this should be done. In TfL's official tube map, this detail is not denoted, not even with a dagger. -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk · contri.) 02:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
I have issues with Wikipedia using the designation "tube station" in its headings for articles about LU stations, whereas for other * stations it uses "railway station".
As we know, "the tube" is a nickname derived from the use of tubular tunnels on what is now the Underground. I don't think it is "encyclopedic" to use the term on Wikipedia.
The London Underground is a system of railways - trains running on rails, so its stations are (logically) railway stations.
All the lines on the Underground were called railways on first opening.
Many parts of the Underground network were taken over by LU when already existing railways. For example, Stratford <-> Epping was a branch of the Great Eastern Railway. Upon takeover, the stations didn't stop being railway stations and the line didn't stop being a railway.
Stations like Upney, Becontree, Dagenham Heathway etc on the District Line are not historically LU stations, and are not under ground and the trains do not run in bored tunnels on any part of the line. There is no difference in the character of (say) Becontree Station and that of (say) Forest Gate Station that makes the tube/railway distinction worthwhile or informative.
Although, for the most part LU trains do not run on National Rail tracks, the Underground is not meaningfully separate from London's other railways. The common distinction used in publicity - "nearest tube" and "nearest rail" is bewildering, even without the ambiguity of "rail". If one is in South Woodford, say, what help is it to him to know that the nearest so-called railway station is Wood Street? For what reason would he not take South Woodford as his nearest station *? It is not under ground ( it's a former GER station); perhaps he might object to the form factor of the trains, but there is little else to distinguish the tube from other railways at this point.
With the District Line the distinction gets even sillier, with Barking called a 'railway' station while the next stop east on the LU (Upney) is called a 'tube' station. If one is at Dagenham Heathway station, the nearest "railway" station is Dagenham Dock, but this information is next to useless. Both stations are served by electric trains built by Bombardier. On one line the power is picked up from AC overhead wires and on the other DC rails, but is this technical difference anywhere near enough to warrant distinguishing them at network level?
TfL publishes a map which it calls the 'tube map' that shows all TfL run services - Underground, Overground, TfL Rail, DLR and Tramlink. Thus the term "tube" is further muddied.
Wikipedia should drop it except to explain the nickname and its origin and applied use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cardinal 1962 ( talk • contribs) 06:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
The citation for London having the 12th busiest metro is this: /info/en/?search=List_of_metro_systems however, by ridership, London's 296 million doesn't even place in the top 30 on that list. I hesitate to edit, however, for fear I am reading the list in error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skalchemist ( talk • contribs) 17:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
As a (generally) non-geeky non-Londoner - like most readers - I would have expected to find in this article some mention of other lines that are closely related to (not part of) the London Underground. Readers should not be having to scratch their heads wondering why a new line in London is not covered, or even mentioned to any significant extent, in an article where many would expect to find it. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Proposals for east-west train route across London, first mooted in 1974, inspired by Paris RER
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
If disregarding from London's most central parts , the City, Westminster etc, anyone who knows why the areas south of the river are much poorer covered compared to northern London ? Like to Croydon, Woking, and Bromley - not more remote than for instance Uxbridge, Watford or Barking. Before the latest extension of Jubelee Line, not even Southwark had any tube station, I believe. Is there a known reason for this ? Any known plans or ideas for an extension of Victoria Line south of Brixton ? (It also seems a bit strange, that Northern Line is the one which has most stations south of the river) Boeing720 ( talk) 00:15, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:06, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on London Underground. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:17, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
I appreciate that a national newspaper is the reference, but my count of the number of stations south of the Thames puts the total at 28 (Richmond, Kew Gardens, Wimbledon, Wimbledon Park, Southfields, East Putney, Morden, South Wimbledon, Colliers Wood, Tooting Broadway, Tooting Bec, Balham, Clapham South, Clapham Common, Clapham North, Stockwell, Oval, Kennington, Waterloo, Elephant & Castle, Borough, London Bridge, Brixton, Vauxhall, Lambeth North, Southwark, Bermondsey, Canada Water). Not a massive difference, but still incorrect, no? Julianhall ( talk) 22:08, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
The given sentence is far from being a truth. Hong Kong MTR implemented Suica-based contactless payment in 1997. Tokyo implemented in 1998. Moscow Metro implemented Mifare-based (NFC) in 1998. Elk Salmon ( talk)
I note that the "Transport for London" years doesn't really explain the substantial changes and improvements to the Tube in the last 20 years or so.
Unprecedented investment compared to previous decades, massive station upgrades, step free access, large orders of new rolling stock, automatic signalling, the Olympic Games etc - and most importantly the huge growth in riders since the 2000s - given that TFL's era of the Tube is 20 years old, I think this counts as "history" rather than "recent developments"!
I tried to wordsmith a sentence or two but couldn't sum it up very well. I wonder if anyone would have a go? Turini2 ( talk) 20:19, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello I fundamentally disagree with @ C2A06: most recent edit - claiming that "occasionally the Londerground" is what the London Underground is called. I initially reverted this as incorrect, especially without reference. Personally, I've never heard anyone in London ever say it. The newly added citation is a reddit post from 2015 with no upvotes and just 2 comments (one which disagrees, the other is a crude joke). It does not back up the assertion that the Tube is "occasionally [called] the Londerground".
My brief google/twitter search comes up with very few results - it seems that no one actually calls the Tube this. Given WP:RV, I've come here for some consensus on the issue. Should the edit be reverted? Turini2 ( talk) 07:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Support removing it. Nobody calls it that and some random person on Reddit isn’t a reliable source. Blythwood ( talk) 07:34, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I think there are only 7 on the Central line. Buckhurst Hill, Chigwell, Debden, Epping, Loughton, Roding Valley and Theydon Bois.
Wikipedia correctly says Grange Hill Station (which was outside Greater London) is in LB Redbridge - this has been the case since the 1990s boundary change https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/2091/made?view=plain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.135.239 ( talk) 17:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks @redrose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.135.239 ( talk) 07:50, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
a) The panel on this page says that LU serves 270 stations but owns 260. No source is given for the 260, and I think it is incorrect. With help, I deduced that these 13 stations are served by LU, but as they are not (according to the National Rail website) managed by LU it seems likely they are not owned by LU:
1 Barking 2 Ealing Broadway 3 Heathrow T2/3 4 Heathrow T4 5 Heathrow T5 6 Kensington Olympia 7 Richmond 8 Stratford 9 Tottenham Hale 10 Upminster 11 West Hampstead 12 Willesden Junction 13 Wimbledon
b) 29 stations owned by NR but run by LU [1]:
1 Amersham 2 Blackhorse Road 3 Canada Water 4 Chalfont & Latimer 5 Chorleywood 6 Farringdon 7 Greenford 8 Gunnersbury 9 Harlesden 10 Harrow & Wealdstone 11 Harrow-On-The-Hill 12 Highbury & Islington 13 Kensal Green 14 Kentish Town 15 Kenton 16 Kew Gardens 17 Moorgate 18 North Wembley 19 Old Street 20 Queens Park 21 Rickmansworth 22 South Kenton 23 South Ruislip 24 Stonebridge Park 25 Wembley Central 26 West Brompton 27 West Ham 28 West Ruislip 29 Whitechapel
The conclusion seems to be that assuming it serves 270 stations, it owns 228. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
82.47.135.239 (
talk)
07:31, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
Noting @ Sandstein's good faith and reasoned redirect of Track access controller when closing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Track access controller (2nd nomination) here creates a WP:SURPRISE that really needs to be addressed and I feel concerns attempts to address in this article might (I stress might) easily be WP:UNDUE, marginally disruptive and not an improvement Djm-leighpark ( talk) 09:20, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
In the latest update of my tube map for Battersea Power Station extension, I adjusted few routes including those around Kennington, so it would be easier to add a little spur path between the Charing Cross and Bank branches south of Kennington, if you guys believe this should be done. In TfL's official tube map, this detail is not denoted, not even with a dagger. -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk · contri.) 02:37, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
I have issues with Wikipedia using the designation "tube station" in its headings for articles about LU stations, whereas for other * stations it uses "railway station".
As we know, "the tube" is a nickname derived from the use of tubular tunnels on what is now the Underground. I don't think it is "encyclopedic" to use the term on Wikipedia.
The London Underground is a system of railways - trains running on rails, so its stations are (logically) railway stations.
All the lines on the Underground were called railways on first opening.
Many parts of the Underground network were taken over by LU when already existing railways. For example, Stratford <-> Epping was a branch of the Great Eastern Railway. Upon takeover, the stations didn't stop being railway stations and the line didn't stop being a railway.
Stations like Upney, Becontree, Dagenham Heathway etc on the District Line are not historically LU stations, and are not under ground and the trains do not run in bored tunnels on any part of the line. There is no difference in the character of (say) Becontree Station and that of (say) Forest Gate Station that makes the tube/railway distinction worthwhile or informative.
Although, for the most part LU trains do not run on National Rail tracks, the Underground is not meaningfully separate from London's other railways. The common distinction used in publicity - "nearest tube" and "nearest rail" is bewildering, even without the ambiguity of "rail". If one is in South Woodford, say, what help is it to him to know that the nearest so-called railway station is Wood Street? For what reason would he not take South Woodford as his nearest station *? It is not under ground ( it's a former GER station); perhaps he might object to the form factor of the trains, but there is little else to distinguish the tube from other railways at this point.
With the District Line the distinction gets even sillier, with Barking called a 'railway' station while the next stop east on the LU (Upney) is called a 'tube' station. If one is at Dagenham Heathway station, the nearest "railway" station is Dagenham Dock, but this information is next to useless. Both stations are served by electric trains built by Bombardier. On one line the power is picked up from AC overhead wires and on the other DC rails, but is this technical difference anywhere near enough to warrant distinguishing them at network level?
TfL publishes a map which it calls the 'tube map' that shows all TfL run services - Underground, Overground, TfL Rail, DLR and Tramlink. Thus the term "tube" is further muddied.
Wikipedia should drop it except to explain the nickname and its origin and applied use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cardinal 1962 ( talk • contribs) 06:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
The citation for London having the 12th busiest metro is this: /info/en/?search=List_of_metro_systems however, by ridership, London's 296 million doesn't even place in the top 30 on that list. I hesitate to edit, however, for fear I am reading the list in error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skalchemist ( talk • contribs) 17:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
As a (generally) non-geeky non-Londoner - like most readers - I would have expected to find in this article some mention of other lines that are closely related to (not part of) the London Underground. Readers should not be having to scratch their heads wondering why a new line in London is not covered, or even mentioned to any significant extent, in an article where many would expect to find it. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
References
Proposals for east-west train route across London, first mooted in 1974, inspired by Paris RER