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To enhance the table of the lines with their lengths and number of stations, it would be nice to have an average for passenger numbers (perhaps annualy) for each line. The article on the Paris Metro has this and it's interesting to compare the usage. Does anyone have these figures? -- Rob2000 13:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
These figures are found on the articles of each line or check out the TfL website. Simply south 13:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Simply south. If the authors don't think it'll look too cluttered then it might be an interesting addition to that table (cf Paris Metro); I personally think it would be a nice idea, but I'm afraid I don't have the editorial skills myself!-- Rob2000 14:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, it does look interesting. I will probably add them. Simply south 17:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know what Borough Old Street tube is in? Its article says Islington, but all the maps I've seen suggest Hackney. 86.0.203.120 22:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
All the stations are called x tube station - i.e. Bank tube station. This seems like the wrong choice for the official title of an article - the real name of all stations is x Underground station or x London Underground station - tube is a nickname, even if it is used officially by LU from time to time. Has there been a discussion about this before? Tompagenet 12:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it is to distinguish it from other metro systems, amongst other things. Plus also the LU is commonly called "the tube". Simply south 18:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Another thing to point out is that many of the world's metros use "underground" in general for theirs. This may be eith ambiguous or ambituous. Simply south 13:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Surely using the tube map on this page counts as fair use under copyright law, it is kind of integral to the whole system, and it is also a great piece of artwork. -- Differentgravy 16:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
See " Tube map" for an explanation. The map is protected by copyright. In the U.S., most works of the national government are not protected by copyright. In the U.K., the story is different. British banknotes bare the "©" symbol. Many things that one might thing of as productions of the national government are actually produced by other different groups. The U.K.'s Royal Mail, for example, is a state-owned company, rather than a government department; the story is similar with the United States Postal Service, which replaced the U.S. Post Office Department. The typeface used on the Tube map is also protected by copyright. — President Lethe 23:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure about that. It depends on the U.K. copyright laws that protect the map and how those laws interact with the law in the U.S. and specifically Florida, where Wikipedia's servers are. I was just pointing out that the map is protected by copyright. Have a look at " Wikipedia:Copyrights"; it may help.
(Also, I'm not sure whether you also have this idea, Dom0803—but it seems that many persons think that it's O.K. to reproduce copyright-protected content without permission as long as they just acknowledge that the work is protected by copyright; in fact, this not only doesn't make it suddenly O.K. to reproduce the work, but also can be used in court to help prove that the person violating the copyright knew that the work was protected by copyright.)
President Lethe 03:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/maps/#copyright - "Except solely for your own personal and non-commercial use, no part of this document may be copied or used without the prior written permission of Transport for London". Seems abundantly clear. -- Khendon 07:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Why not get someone appropriate to ask TfL for permission to use a small-resolution Underground map which can then link to an official one ? -- MBRZ48 01:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
There's currently an AFD going on for London Underground trivia, because apparently it's not encyclopaedic enough. I thought I'd mention this as it's of interest to editors of this headline article. Discussion is ongoing at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/London_Underground_trivia - please go and contribute! My view is that it should stay, as otherwise London Underground would become even more bloated than it is. -- Mike 23:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
The result was keep. Simply south 13:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
The table of lines says the year is "the date the first section opened". But I don't think that's what they are, since the Jubilee Line says 1979 and sections of it are much older. It's the definition that needs changing rather than the years, but I can't think of a suitable wording. -- 87.82.21.198 15:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Copied from my message on User talk:ShakespeareFan00
Yes, the Jubilee Line did open in 1979. However the actual railway it now occupies was opened in 1879 which was on the Metropolitan Railway. It then went through a series of changes between companies and then lines on what is now the London Underground (most notably the Bakerloo Line) before finally becoming the Jubilee Line. THEREFORE the railway section opened in 1879. There is a big difference in naming the Jubilee Line opening dates and when that section of railway actually first opened.
Simply south 21:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that there isn't a standard tube map image on this page. Does someone want to put one on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.140.39 ( talk)
Sorry, but i thought the distances seemed to be under or over-estimated. This seemed especially true for the H&C. However, has this made the box rather complicated? Simply south 21:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Could someone add total number of stations (as of 2006) to the table of the different LU lines? Also, if it's not recorded anywhere in the article, the total number of stations across the network would be a nice figure to have. Carcharoth 02:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Edward Johnston designed TfL's distinctive sans-serif typeface, in 1916. A version of the typeface, modified to include lower case, continues in use today, and is called "New Johnston". The new typeface is noted for the curl at the bottom of the minuscule l, which other sans-serif typefaces have discarded, and for the diamond-shaped tittle on the minuscule i and j, whose shape also appears in the full stop, and is the origin of other punctuation marks in the face. TfL owns the copyright to and exercises control over the New Johnston typeface, but a close approximation of the face exists in the TrueType computer font Paddington.
Should we mention the astonishing frequency of strikes?
etc etc etc Huseyx2 20:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I am involved with the WikiProject Filmmaking and found the Filming on the Underground stub. Although this could fall under our project, I think it would be more appropriate as a section of this article because I would assume anyone who was interested in the London Underground as a filming location would probably search under "London Underground" before searching for "Filming on the Underground." -- GHcool 18:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I think a link would be useful in the "London Underground" article. However merging "Filming on the Underground." into the article would not be appropriate. Lots of films have used the Tube meaning the article could potentially be very big. User:ExULstudent 12:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the merge, at least for now (therfore merge now, split later). There have been many films and documentaries on the London Underground, for example The Tube, Sliding Doors etc. This would make a suitable and useful sub-section. If it becomes too large then it can become its own article again, with mention from the main page. Simply south 16:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I support the merge since the article of "Filming on the Underground" just looks so pathetic as an article in its own right.
I definetly think that Filming on the Underground should become a section of London Underground, as this would provide a more suitable home for the information in this pathetic excuse for an article.
What do you think? Please reply!
Cheers
Anthony 19:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC) ( Talk to Me/ Contribs)
I think this talk section should be merged into the one above. :) Simply south 20:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I vote for merge. "Filming" does not warrant its own article. Ianthegecko 23:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I believed it should be merged as mentioned it doesnt really warrant as yet its own section can split it if it expands anymore. User:Mikechristopher
On the main London Underground page, it states that Lancaster Gate is closed for refurbishment until October this year, on Lancaster Gate's own page, the month stated is November. Whichever it is, it should be finished soon so will no longer be an issue. However, internal consistency is being lost here, which seems a pity. Perhaps someone with local and current knowledge of the situation could put one or other of the two pages right. As said, not a big deal. Pheasantplucker 10:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure where else to ask this, so I'll try here. An enormous number of tube articles have references to The Great Bear tube map eg:
Is anyone else bugged by this? They seem a little out of place and aren't really very relevant to the articles they appear in, and having the work mentioned so often makes it appear enormously significant. Would anyone mind if these were removed, maybe by consolidating them in the Great Bear article itself? -- Dtcdthingy 00:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I moved Accidents, Terrorism and cooling to new pages to cut down on the length of this article. The comment about Hackney being served poorly by LU is not very usefull in this article and could be deleted. Ysignal 10:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'm currently in the process of looking for ways to improve Melbourne train articles. We have a similar wikipedia layout for Melbourne's train network. I recently looked at the South Kensington tube station and was wondering where can I find the templates or code to use for the branch lines so I don't need to duplicate things. Thanks heaps. -- Lakeyboy 06:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, i just wanted to ask weather I could put a link to my website on the "london underground" page. I tried once but the link was removed. It is is an unofficial, non-profit, & non-commercial, hobby website, intended for free research & educational use only. Thank_you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.192.188.241 ( talk • contribs) .
My site shows information about events that can directly effect the underground. It also shows images of stations and some information about them. Please let other users judge for thereself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.192.188.241 ( talk • contribs) .
What's a "thereself"? 24.131.12.228 20:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I think we might as well link it. What harm can it do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.117.95 ( talk) 11:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, "Criticism" sections in Wikipedia articles generally suck. They're basically a thinly-veiled excuse for NPOV whining, and this one read like someone had taken the Evening Standard's list of pet peeves and copied it down. Worse than that, a lot of the stuff it covered was duplicated elsewhere already, and chunks of it needed cites as well. Even more than that, this article is way too long already. I've taken the whole thing out. -- Mike 09:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I feel the same way about Trivia sections. Since when is trivia encyclopedic? It usually looks to me like obscure fun facts that don't fit in the article anywhere, so they get jammed into a section together. 24.131.12.228 20:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I think criticism is an important part of this article. Londoners who use the Underground frequently complain about the service. I suggest the section be put back, however each criticism must be met with a counter point in order to retain NPOV status. -- 82.35.37.18 16:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
A new article at Wimbledon & North Line has been created - is this in any sense true, or is it nonsense? -- Harris 12:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure. I have read about an extension of the Victoria Line to Northumberland Park but i have not heard of this line. Simply south 12:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I've also looked, on google and on tfl.gov.uk, found nothing. I saw something on the news earlier today about a tram line development, but I can't remember where it was (running through Peckham?) I guess if its non-verifiable it needs to be sent to AfD? RHB 19:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
The article describes one variant of the Chelsea-Hackney line (a long-discussed diagonal line to relieve the Victoria line using new tunnels in the centre and existing lines outside) with quite a lot of wishful thinking. It's not completely rubbish, though unsourced and not at the right title. ProhibitOnions (T) 13:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
User:ed g2s has created the whole network map, Image:London Underground full map.png, albeit in PNG format. Should it replace the zone 1 map on the network section or is it too big to put on for users with smaller monitor dimensions? -- TheTall One 10:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
A recent update to the article added the following justification for platform edge screens:
It is far from obvious that this is true, especially as said screens do not reach the ceiling. This can be clearly seen in this image. I have added a {{fact}} tag. -- Chris j wood 12:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I have to confess it was me that added that after an anon removed the part about containing the blast of air coming into a station and added the bit about air conditioning, whereupon I changed it so both were mentioned. Remove it by all means if theres no evidence to back it up. Thanks, RHB 18:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Its currently under FAR, so its still a FA at the moment but is being checked to ensure it is. See the FAR page here Thanks, RHB 19:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
These early lines used steam-hauled trains, which required effective ventilation to the surface.[2] These houses were demolished for the construction of the then District Line between Paddington and Bayswater. However, to 'keep up appearances' in what still is a well-to-do street, a 5-foot thick concrete facade was constructed to resemble a genuine house frontage.
It seems to me that a chunk of this paragraph has been deleted—specifically where the [2] lies. To begin by talking about steam-hauled trains and then to continue with the phrase "These houses were demolished..." is a non-sequitur. Could someone look into this and perhaps restore whatever part of the paragraph seems to be missing? — dragfyre 02:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
it seems to me the number of external links on this article is beyond the point of Wiki. There should'nt be more than one for each type of extra information and it should suport the article rather than be an added titbit. I would think this page is ripe for pruning. Thundernlightning 11:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay, this is probably going to count as original research or something but i have just calculated the number of people on average at each station. Slightly skewed but this shows which line is the busiest (Victoria) and the least busiest (unsurprisingly still the East London Line).
Well if they are any use
here:
Number of people per station
Simply south 14:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Exactly which boroughs don't have tube stations? The "South of the Thames" section says Hackney is one of them, but it has Mansion House is. I'd edit the article, but I don't know whether the other 5 are correct. -- 88.110.235.235 03:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
See here: http://www.map.hackney.gov.uk/gismapgallery/Maps/Tom%20Duane%20Maps/Places%20of%20Worship/Places%20of%20Worship.pdf Address: London Underground Ltd, Manor House Station, Green Lanes, LONDON, N4 1BX. 77.99.141.219 11:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
The Underground lines are referred to in this and related articles thus: "Northern Line" — with "Line" capitalised. TfL (and previously London Transport) write it "Northern line" — line name capitalised, but not "line" (so "Hammersmith & City line", "Circle line" etc.). We can, of course, disregard non-standard capitalisation, but as this appears not to have been discussed, I thought it might be a good idea to ask others' opinions as to whether we should consider following Underground practice and using lowercase "line" in the line names. ProhibitOnions (T) 00:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Any other opinions? We would have, for example Bakerloo Line --> Bakerloo line, which is how the LU writes it. ProhibitOnions (T) 11:33, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
"London Underground" is also the name of a song by the band Amatuer Transplants. Bobnotts 20:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that the main article photograph at the top ( Image:Underground_roundel_sign_at_Epping.jpg) has disappeared. To replace this, I have uploaded one of my own photographs ( Image:Underground_sign_at_Westminster.jpg) and changed the article to point to this. EdwinH 17:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
During the second world war work was started on an express line next to the Northern Line. Some of these tunnels were intended to be used as bomb shelters and then passed back to LU after the war. However, the British Government seized control of what little got built. I heard from a friend who worked for the Underground that this line was actually working and in use by the military, but Ken Livingstone told me it was just fragments when I challenged him about this on a radio talk show.
I've also heard stories of a pnematic underground line that shut down a long time ago and seen an article on the House of Commons website that said that their was a secret underground station underneath 10 Downing Street (obviously it isn't that secret if they post articles about it on government websites).
I'd like to see an article about this and any other other Underground Lines that never got finished or were later closed. Can we please also have some sort of list for Ghost Lines and Ghost Stations? Big Mac 02:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
The construction of the London Underground drove London to expand rapidly with areas like Southfields and Metroland and many, many more being undeveloped before the Underground made commuting possible. This needs to be addresses somewhere in this article as it is an area where the Underground was vital to the history of the city it serves. Big Mac 04:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added my non-commercial website of abstract images of the London underground, They have been removed a number of times now as as a "nonsignificant photo site" by Mpk. My person feelings aside, I've put the link back, take a good and if people feel the site serves no purpose I'll be happy to remove the link myself. The jubilee extension images are of architecture meret. Photo Rob 20.38, 10 April 2007 (GMT)
I don't think I'ts spamming, the only personal gain I will get from the site is a few guestbook entrys every few weeks. Photo Rob 22.17, 10 April 2007 (GMT)
Your comments are noted and accepted. Photo Rob 00.28, 12 April 2007 (GMT)
I have recently completed a photography project of the London underground, and the article is wrong regarding shooting within the tube network. Since 7/7 you are liable to be stopped under anti-terrorism laws if you shoot/video anywhere within in the LU network, although the risks are low if you just take the odd snap. Anything more and well your in trouble.
You need permission from the film unit and the station supervisor before photography is permitted. A tripod can be used at the station supervisor (southwark,Clapham north permitted me to use one) discretion. I've amde a small change to reflect the reality.
You are allowed to take photographs as long as: there is no flash, no auto-focus light, no tripod and you are not allowed to be anywhere that may hinder the working of the railway (e.g in front of the signal so the driver cannot see) It is always best to ask permission first though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.117.95 ( talk) 16:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Photo Rob 23.33 17 May 2007(GMT)
Things have changed in the last few years, true if you take the odd snap you should be fine, however someone I know was stopped and arrested last year at Amersham station, they look the camera which took some months to get back. He is a middle aged accountant!! Unbelievable but sadly true. Most staff don't give a stuff, the transport police however do though. Photo Rob 00.17 19 May 2007(GMT)
This is a "sourced opinion" Check out rules regarding photography from the TFL film office, it makes it clear you need permission from them before doing ANY photography. Pehaps this article should be altered.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/1517.aspx ()
Photo Rob 20:45 12 June 2007(GMT)
I think you will find it means any photography on the underground, altough in practice this is impossible to inforce. I am going to contact the film office directly to find out what the situation is for personal photography, hope I am wrong. Photo Rob 16:45 13 June 2007(GMT)
Cheers, Thanks for that, matter closed. Glad I was wrong on this. Wish more station staff knew the rules, as I've been told you need permission to shoot from quite a few. Photo Rob 19:43 13 June 2007(GMT)
Just looking through the edit history and I see that the link to a collection of station locations in Google Earth format has been removed (11:17, 12 December 2006 Thundernlightning (Talk | contribs) (→Practical - this link adds nothing. It just shows stations on a google map.)
I don't agree that this adds nothing. Whilst I can understand that this appears to be simply a map of the stations, this is more importantly a geocoded data set that includes latitude and longitude pairs for each station and could be very useful.
I've not added it back yet - any thoughts?
Sounds fine to put back in, although don't expect it to their long. Photo Rob 16.21 30 May 2007(GMT)
My removal of "The tube generally has two sections: deep-level (tube) and sub-surface." has been reverted. The sentence is poorly expressed. What does it mean? The Central Line is at once deep-level, sub-surface and overground, which section of the underground is it in please? The wiffly-waffly word "generally" is superfluous here. Remove the word "generally" from the sentence and it states that the tube is in two sections. This is patently untrue. Is the sentence trying to say that each section of the underground part of the London Underground may be classified as "deep-level" (bored) or sub-surface (cut-'n'-cover)? If so, perhaps it should say that? -- Ferstel 15:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
according to the TFL book i received on access a category "C" station has a step of 200-300mm therefore i have changed the maximum step height to 300mm on the main page.
Ianburnip 00:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The lead paragraph says that the London Underground "is the largest in terms of route length" and the information box says the system length is 408 kilometres. Yet the information box for the New York City Subway says it's system length is 1056 kilometres (for revenue track). This seems to be a contradiction. -- Gerry Ashton 04:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
This is a silly term and deep level is a tautology. All underground lines are sub-surface. Better shallow and deep. It you want to talk about cut-and-cover, do so separately.
Originally discussed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:London_Underground#Names_of_LU_lines
It seems someone has edited all names with a capital L on line, which as previously discussed, is incorrect as TfL use lower case themselves. I suggest they are edited back to original names, and have the upper case name redirect to the lower case one. Ninjainabowlerhat 22:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
This page should have an SVG version of the Underground logo. There's one for the MBTA. —Ben FrantzDale 16:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering why all the distances/lengths are in kilometers followed by miles in brackets. It is a UK related article and in the UK miles are the units generally used for transport - in road signs, mph on speedometers - and is the unit that the British publuc are the most familiar with and would be the unit reported in the press. Additionally the London nderground site itself uses miles followed by kilometers in breackets. Not a major issue as long as both are stated - just wondering on the reasonling - is there a Wikipedia policy on transport units or was it just how the article was created? [[ Guest9999 19:03, 8 July 2007 (UTC)]]
Apparently the map that this citation links to is no longer available at the location provided. The page opens to a "whadda ya tryin' to find here?" page.
This is a link to a pdf of a map of the Underground:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/colourmap.pdf
I wasn't sure how to update the footnote.
Crocadillion
15:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Isn't there a glaring omission in this article: A map of the network? Zone 1 on its own really isn't good enough. 172.141.219.181 03:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
This is probably minor but i am wondering when a coulple of lines got their names.
Also, when talking about "name dates from" is that talking about the current name? If so, many of the dates contradict this. Simply south 19:44, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
This article (and the internet in general) seems to be lacking information about the history of the roundel logo. The logo has clearly evolved through several variants, starting with the solid red "disc" logo like this in the early 20th century. The geometrical proportions of the official logo have also changed, with older stations having a more "chunky" roundel (the red circle and blue bar are now thinner in proportion to the diameter: see this gallery, for example). I've often wondered why there's a white pole sticking up through the "Underground" roundel above the street at older stations, too (a flagpole?). However, I couldn't find any detailed history of this subject on the web, which is surprising given the iconic nature of the roundel. This page has a link to a now-defunct page hosted by the London Transport Museum; I searched around the museum site, but couldn't find the page. If someone out there has a copy of A Logo for London by David Lawrence, I suggest it would be worthwhile creating a new article on the subject. Naturally the article should include a table (with usage details and history, where available) of the new roundel colours for trams, riverboats, DLR, Overground, etc. There's a picture of these in the Transport for London article. I would suggest the title for the new article should be Roundel (Transport for London), unless someone has a better idea. Any thoughts? Mtford 13:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to find out when sliding doors on London underground trains were first introduced and on which line, who invented and developed the technology and what company manufactured the rolling stock. Any information would be very welcome. Peter59 20:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see the historical section expanded to include a justification for the building of an underground system. Were traffic conditions in London already so heavy? Also potentially facinating would be the origin of the initial concept: who initially thought of the concept of building a transport system underground? Also, to have convinced people of the benefits of travelling in damp, probably badly lit, claustophobic and smoke/steam-filled tunnels must have been a supreme marketing exercise in itself.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
To enhance the table of the lines with their lengths and number of stations, it would be nice to have an average for passenger numbers (perhaps annualy) for each line. The article on the Paris Metro has this and it's interesting to compare the usage. Does anyone have these figures? -- Rob2000 13:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
These figures are found on the articles of each line or check out the TfL website. Simply south 13:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Simply south. If the authors don't think it'll look too cluttered then it might be an interesting addition to that table (cf Paris Metro); I personally think it would be a nice idea, but I'm afraid I don't have the editorial skills myself!-- Rob2000 14:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, it does look interesting. I will probably add them. Simply south 17:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know what Borough Old Street tube is in? Its article says Islington, but all the maps I've seen suggest Hackney. 86.0.203.120 22:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
All the stations are called x tube station - i.e. Bank tube station. This seems like the wrong choice for the official title of an article - the real name of all stations is x Underground station or x London Underground station - tube is a nickname, even if it is used officially by LU from time to time. Has there been a discussion about this before? Tompagenet 12:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it is to distinguish it from other metro systems, amongst other things. Plus also the LU is commonly called "the tube". Simply south 18:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Another thing to point out is that many of the world's metros use "underground" in general for theirs. This may be eith ambiguous or ambituous. Simply south 13:07, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Surely using the tube map on this page counts as fair use under copyright law, it is kind of integral to the whole system, and it is also a great piece of artwork. -- Differentgravy 16:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
See " Tube map" for an explanation. The map is protected by copyright. In the U.S., most works of the national government are not protected by copyright. In the U.K., the story is different. British banknotes bare the "©" symbol. Many things that one might thing of as productions of the national government are actually produced by other different groups. The U.K.'s Royal Mail, for example, is a state-owned company, rather than a government department; the story is similar with the United States Postal Service, which replaced the U.S. Post Office Department. The typeface used on the Tube map is also protected by copyright. — President Lethe 23:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure about that. It depends on the U.K. copyright laws that protect the map and how those laws interact with the law in the U.S. and specifically Florida, where Wikipedia's servers are. I was just pointing out that the map is protected by copyright. Have a look at " Wikipedia:Copyrights"; it may help.
(Also, I'm not sure whether you also have this idea, Dom0803—but it seems that many persons think that it's O.K. to reproduce copyright-protected content without permission as long as they just acknowledge that the work is protected by copyright; in fact, this not only doesn't make it suddenly O.K. to reproduce the work, but also can be used in court to help prove that the person violating the copyright knew that the work was protected by copyright.)
President Lethe 03:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/maps/#copyright - "Except solely for your own personal and non-commercial use, no part of this document may be copied or used without the prior written permission of Transport for London". Seems abundantly clear. -- Khendon 07:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Why not get someone appropriate to ask TfL for permission to use a small-resolution Underground map which can then link to an official one ? -- MBRZ48 01:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
There's currently an AFD going on for London Underground trivia, because apparently it's not encyclopaedic enough. I thought I'd mention this as it's of interest to editors of this headline article. Discussion is ongoing at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/London_Underground_trivia - please go and contribute! My view is that it should stay, as otherwise London Underground would become even more bloated than it is. -- Mike 23:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
The result was keep. Simply south 13:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
The table of lines says the year is "the date the first section opened". But I don't think that's what they are, since the Jubilee Line says 1979 and sections of it are much older. It's the definition that needs changing rather than the years, but I can't think of a suitable wording. -- 87.82.21.198 15:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Copied from my message on User talk:ShakespeareFan00
Yes, the Jubilee Line did open in 1979. However the actual railway it now occupies was opened in 1879 which was on the Metropolitan Railway. It then went through a series of changes between companies and then lines on what is now the London Underground (most notably the Bakerloo Line) before finally becoming the Jubilee Line. THEREFORE the railway section opened in 1879. There is a big difference in naming the Jubilee Line opening dates and when that section of railway actually first opened.
Simply south 21:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that there isn't a standard tube map image on this page. Does someone want to put one on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.140.39 ( talk)
Sorry, but i thought the distances seemed to be under or over-estimated. This seemed especially true for the H&C. However, has this made the box rather complicated? Simply south 21:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Could someone add total number of stations (as of 2006) to the table of the different LU lines? Also, if it's not recorded anywhere in the article, the total number of stations across the network would be a nice figure to have. Carcharoth 02:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Edward Johnston designed TfL's distinctive sans-serif typeface, in 1916. A version of the typeface, modified to include lower case, continues in use today, and is called "New Johnston". The new typeface is noted for the curl at the bottom of the minuscule l, which other sans-serif typefaces have discarded, and for the diamond-shaped tittle on the minuscule i and j, whose shape also appears in the full stop, and is the origin of other punctuation marks in the face. TfL owns the copyright to and exercises control over the New Johnston typeface, but a close approximation of the face exists in the TrueType computer font Paddington.
Should we mention the astonishing frequency of strikes?
etc etc etc Huseyx2 20:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I am involved with the WikiProject Filmmaking and found the Filming on the Underground stub. Although this could fall under our project, I think it would be more appropriate as a section of this article because I would assume anyone who was interested in the London Underground as a filming location would probably search under "London Underground" before searching for "Filming on the Underground." -- GHcool 18:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I think a link would be useful in the "London Underground" article. However merging "Filming on the Underground." into the article would not be appropriate. Lots of films have used the Tube meaning the article could potentially be very big. User:ExULstudent 12:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the merge, at least for now (therfore merge now, split later). There have been many films and documentaries on the London Underground, for example The Tube, Sliding Doors etc. This would make a suitable and useful sub-section. If it becomes too large then it can become its own article again, with mention from the main page. Simply south 16:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I support the merge since the article of "Filming on the Underground" just looks so pathetic as an article in its own right.
I definetly think that Filming on the Underground should become a section of London Underground, as this would provide a more suitable home for the information in this pathetic excuse for an article.
What do you think? Please reply!
Cheers
Anthony 19:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC) ( Talk to Me/ Contribs)
I think this talk section should be merged into the one above. :) Simply south 20:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I vote for merge. "Filming" does not warrant its own article. Ianthegecko 23:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I believed it should be merged as mentioned it doesnt really warrant as yet its own section can split it if it expands anymore. User:Mikechristopher
On the main London Underground page, it states that Lancaster Gate is closed for refurbishment until October this year, on Lancaster Gate's own page, the month stated is November. Whichever it is, it should be finished soon so will no longer be an issue. However, internal consistency is being lost here, which seems a pity. Perhaps someone with local and current knowledge of the situation could put one or other of the two pages right. As said, not a big deal. Pheasantplucker 10:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure where else to ask this, so I'll try here. An enormous number of tube articles have references to The Great Bear tube map eg:
Is anyone else bugged by this? They seem a little out of place and aren't really very relevant to the articles they appear in, and having the work mentioned so often makes it appear enormously significant. Would anyone mind if these were removed, maybe by consolidating them in the Great Bear article itself? -- Dtcdthingy 00:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I moved Accidents, Terrorism and cooling to new pages to cut down on the length of this article. The comment about Hackney being served poorly by LU is not very usefull in this article and could be deleted. Ysignal 10:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'm currently in the process of looking for ways to improve Melbourne train articles. We have a similar wikipedia layout for Melbourne's train network. I recently looked at the South Kensington tube station and was wondering where can I find the templates or code to use for the branch lines so I don't need to duplicate things. Thanks heaps. -- Lakeyboy 06:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, i just wanted to ask weather I could put a link to my website on the "london underground" page. I tried once but the link was removed. It is is an unofficial, non-profit, & non-commercial, hobby website, intended for free research & educational use only. Thank_you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.192.188.241 ( talk • contribs) .
My site shows information about events that can directly effect the underground. It also shows images of stations and some information about them. Please let other users judge for thereself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.192.188.241 ( talk • contribs) .
What's a "thereself"? 24.131.12.228 20:38, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I think we might as well link it. What harm can it do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.117.95 ( talk) 11:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, "Criticism" sections in Wikipedia articles generally suck. They're basically a thinly-veiled excuse for NPOV whining, and this one read like someone had taken the Evening Standard's list of pet peeves and copied it down. Worse than that, a lot of the stuff it covered was duplicated elsewhere already, and chunks of it needed cites as well. Even more than that, this article is way too long already. I've taken the whole thing out. -- Mike 09:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I feel the same way about Trivia sections. Since when is trivia encyclopedic? It usually looks to me like obscure fun facts that don't fit in the article anywhere, so they get jammed into a section together. 24.131.12.228 20:40, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I think criticism is an important part of this article. Londoners who use the Underground frequently complain about the service. I suggest the section be put back, however each criticism must be met with a counter point in order to retain NPOV status. -- 82.35.37.18 16:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
A new article at Wimbledon & North Line has been created - is this in any sense true, or is it nonsense? -- Harris 12:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure. I have read about an extension of the Victoria Line to Northumberland Park but i have not heard of this line. Simply south 12:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I've also looked, on google and on tfl.gov.uk, found nothing. I saw something on the news earlier today about a tram line development, but I can't remember where it was (running through Peckham?) I guess if its non-verifiable it needs to be sent to AfD? RHB 19:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
The article describes one variant of the Chelsea-Hackney line (a long-discussed diagonal line to relieve the Victoria line using new tunnels in the centre and existing lines outside) with quite a lot of wishful thinking. It's not completely rubbish, though unsourced and not at the right title. ProhibitOnions (T) 13:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
User:ed g2s has created the whole network map, Image:London Underground full map.png, albeit in PNG format. Should it replace the zone 1 map on the network section or is it too big to put on for users with smaller monitor dimensions? -- TheTall One 10:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
A recent update to the article added the following justification for platform edge screens:
It is far from obvious that this is true, especially as said screens do not reach the ceiling. This can be clearly seen in this image. I have added a {{fact}} tag. -- Chris j wood 12:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I have to confess it was me that added that after an anon removed the part about containing the blast of air coming into a station and added the bit about air conditioning, whereupon I changed it so both were mentioned. Remove it by all means if theres no evidence to back it up. Thanks, RHB 18:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Its currently under FAR, so its still a FA at the moment but is being checked to ensure it is. See the FAR page here Thanks, RHB 19:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
These early lines used steam-hauled trains, which required effective ventilation to the surface.[2] These houses were demolished for the construction of the then District Line between Paddington and Bayswater. However, to 'keep up appearances' in what still is a well-to-do street, a 5-foot thick concrete facade was constructed to resemble a genuine house frontage.
It seems to me that a chunk of this paragraph has been deleted—specifically where the [2] lies. To begin by talking about steam-hauled trains and then to continue with the phrase "These houses were demolished..." is a non-sequitur. Could someone look into this and perhaps restore whatever part of the paragraph seems to be missing? — dragfyre 02:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
it seems to me the number of external links on this article is beyond the point of Wiki. There should'nt be more than one for each type of extra information and it should suport the article rather than be an added titbit. I would think this page is ripe for pruning. Thundernlightning 11:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay, this is probably going to count as original research or something but i have just calculated the number of people on average at each station. Slightly skewed but this shows which line is the busiest (Victoria) and the least busiest (unsurprisingly still the East London Line).
Well if they are any use
here:
Number of people per station
Simply south 14:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Exactly which boroughs don't have tube stations? The "South of the Thames" section says Hackney is one of them, but it has Mansion House is. I'd edit the article, but I don't know whether the other 5 are correct. -- 88.110.235.235 03:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
See here: http://www.map.hackney.gov.uk/gismapgallery/Maps/Tom%20Duane%20Maps/Places%20of%20Worship/Places%20of%20Worship.pdf Address: London Underground Ltd, Manor House Station, Green Lanes, LONDON, N4 1BX. 77.99.141.219 11:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
The Underground lines are referred to in this and related articles thus: "Northern Line" — with "Line" capitalised. TfL (and previously London Transport) write it "Northern line" — line name capitalised, but not "line" (so "Hammersmith & City line", "Circle line" etc.). We can, of course, disregard non-standard capitalisation, but as this appears not to have been discussed, I thought it might be a good idea to ask others' opinions as to whether we should consider following Underground practice and using lowercase "line" in the line names. ProhibitOnions (T) 00:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Any other opinions? We would have, for example Bakerloo Line --> Bakerloo line, which is how the LU writes it. ProhibitOnions (T) 11:33, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
"London Underground" is also the name of a song by the band Amatuer Transplants. Bobnotts 20:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that the main article photograph at the top ( Image:Underground_roundel_sign_at_Epping.jpg) has disappeared. To replace this, I have uploaded one of my own photographs ( Image:Underground_sign_at_Westminster.jpg) and changed the article to point to this. EdwinH 17:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
During the second world war work was started on an express line next to the Northern Line. Some of these tunnels were intended to be used as bomb shelters and then passed back to LU after the war. However, the British Government seized control of what little got built. I heard from a friend who worked for the Underground that this line was actually working and in use by the military, but Ken Livingstone told me it was just fragments when I challenged him about this on a radio talk show.
I've also heard stories of a pnematic underground line that shut down a long time ago and seen an article on the House of Commons website that said that their was a secret underground station underneath 10 Downing Street (obviously it isn't that secret if they post articles about it on government websites).
I'd like to see an article about this and any other other Underground Lines that never got finished or were later closed. Can we please also have some sort of list for Ghost Lines and Ghost Stations? Big Mac 02:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
The construction of the London Underground drove London to expand rapidly with areas like Southfields and Metroland and many, many more being undeveloped before the Underground made commuting possible. This needs to be addresses somewhere in this article as it is an area where the Underground was vital to the history of the city it serves. Big Mac 04:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added my non-commercial website of abstract images of the London underground, They have been removed a number of times now as as a "nonsignificant photo site" by Mpk. My person feelings aside, I've put the link back, take a good and if people feel the site serves no purpose I'll be happy to remove the link myself. The jubilee extension images are of architecture meret. Photo Rob 20.38, 10 April 2007 (GMT)
I don't think I'ts spamming, the only personal gain I will get from the site is a few guestbook entrys every few weeks. Photo Rob 22.17, 10 April 2007 (GMT)
Your comments are noted and accepted. Photo Rob 00.28, 12 April 2007 (GMT)
I have recently completed a photography project of the London underground, and the article is wrong regarding shooting within the tube network. Since 7/7 you are liable to be stopped under anti-terrorism laws if you shoot/video anywhere within in the LU network, although the risks are low if you just take the odd snap. Anything more and well your in trouble.
You need permission from the film unit and the station supervisor before photography is permitted. A tripod can be used at the station supervisor (southwark,Clapham north permitted me to use one) discretion. I've amde a small change to reflect the reality.
You are allowed to take photographs as long as: there is no flash, no auto-focus light, no tripod and you are not allowed to be anywhere that may hinder the working of the railway (e.g in front of the signal so the driver cannot see) It is always best to ask permission first though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.117.95 ( talk) 16:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Photo Rob 23.33 17 May 2007(GMT)
Things have changed in the last few years, true if you take the odd snap you should be fine, however someone I know was stopped and arrested last year at Amersham station, they look the camera which took some months to get back. He is a middle aged accountant!! Unbelievable but sadly true. Most staff don't give a stuff, the transport police however do though. Photo Rob 00.17 19 May 2007(GMT)
This is a "sourced opinion" Check out rules regarding photography from the TFL film office, it makes it clear you need permission from them before doing ANY photography. Pehaps this article should be altered.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/1517.aspx ()
Photo Rob 20:45 12 June 2007(GMT)
I think you will find it means any photography on the underground, altough in practice this is impossible to inforce. I am going to contact the film office directly to find out what the situation is for personal photography, hope I am wrong. Photo Rob 16:45 13 June 2007(GMT)
Cheers, Thanks for that, matter closed. Glad I was wrong on this. Wish more station staff knew the rules, as I've been told you need permission to shoot from quite a few. Photo Rob 19:43 13 June 2007(GMT)
Just looking through the edit history and I see that the link to a collection of station locations in Google Earth format has been removed (11:17, 12 December 2006 Thundernlightning (Talk | contribs) (→Practical - this link adds nothing. It just shows stations on a google map.)
I don't agree that this adds nothing. Whilst I can understand that this appears to be simply a map of the stations, this is more importantly a geocoded data set that includes latitude and longitude pairs for each station and could be very useful.
I've not added it back yet - any thoughts?
Sounds fine to put back in, although don't expect it to their long. Photo Rob 16.21 30 May 2007(GMT)
My removal of "The tube generally has two sections: deep-level (tube) and sub-surface." has been reverted. The sentence is poorly expressed. What does it mean? The Central Line is at once deep-level, sub-surface and overground, which section of the underground is it in please? The wiffly-waffly word "generally" is superfluous here. Remove the word "generally" from the sentence and it states that the tube is in two sections. This is patently untrue. Is the sentence trying to say that each section of the underground part of the London Underground may be classified as "deep-level" (bored) or sub-surface (cut-'n'-cover)? If so, perhaps it should say that? -- Ferstel 15:38, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
according to the TFL book i received on access a category "C" station has a step of 200-300mm therefore i have changed the maximum step height to 300mm on the main page.
Ianburnip 00:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The lead paragraph says that the London Underground "is the largest in terms of route length" and the information box says the system length is 408 kilometres. Yet the information box for the New York City Subway says it's system length is 1056 kilometres (for revenue track). This seems to be a contradiction. -- Gerry Ashton 04:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
This is a silly term and deep level is a tautology. All underground lines are sub-surface. Better shallow and deep. It you want to talk about cut-and-cover, do so separately.
Originally discussed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:London_Underground#Names_of_LU_lines
It seems someone has edited all names with a capital L on line, which as previously discussed, is incorrect as TfL use lower case themselves. I suggest they are edited back to original names, and have the upper case name redirect to the lower case one. Ninjainabowlerhat 22:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
This page should have an SVG version of the Underground logo. There's one for the MBTA. —Ben FrantzDale 16:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering why all the distances/lengths are in kilometers followed by miles in brackets. It is a UK related article and in the UK miles are the units generally used for transport - in road signs, mph on speedometers - and is the unit that the British publuc are the most familiar with and would be the unit reported in the press. Additionally the London nderground site itself uses miles followed by kilometers in breackets. Not a major issue as long as both are stated - just wondering on the reasonling - is there a Wikipedia policy on transport units or was it just how the article was created? [[ Guest9999 19:03, 8 July 2007 (UTC)]]
Apparently the map that this citation links to is no longer available at the location provided. The page opens to a "whadda ya tryin' to find here?" page.
This is a link to a pdf of a map of the Underground:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/colourmap.pdf
I wasn't sure how to update the footnote.
Crocadillion
15:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Isn't there a glaring omission in this article: A map of the network? Zone 1 on its own really isn't good enough. 172.141.219.181 03:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
This is probably minor but i am wondering when a coulple of lines got their names.
Also, when talking about "name dates from" is that talking about the current name? If so, many of the dates contradict this. Simply south 19:44, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
This article (and the internet in general) seems to be lacking information about the history of the roundel logo. The logo has clearly evolved through several variants, starting with the solid red "disc" logo like this in the early 20th century. The geometrical proportions of the official logo have also changed, with older stations having a more "chunky" roundel (the red circle and blue bar are now thinner in proportion to the diameter: see this gallery, for example). I've often wondered why there's a white pole sticking up through the "Underground" roundel above the street at older stations, too (a flagpole?). However, I couldn't find any detailed history of this subject on the web, which is surprising given the iconic nature of the roundel. This page has a link to a now-defunct page hosted by the London Transport Museum; I searched around the museum site, but couldn't find the page. If someone out there has a copy of A Logo for London by David Lawrence, I suggest it would be worthwhile creating a new article on the subject. Naturally the article should include a table (with usage details and history, where available) of the new roundel colours for trams, riverboats, DLR, Overground, etc. There's a picture of these in the Transport for London article. I would suggest the title for the new article should be Roundel (Transport for London), unless someone has a better idea. Any thoughts? Mtford 13:30, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to find out when sliding doors on London underground trains were first introduced and on which line, who invented and developed the technology and what company manufactured the rolling stock. Any information would be very welcome. Peter59 20:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see the historical section expanded to include a justification for the building of an underground system. Were traffic conditions in London already so heavy? Also potentially facinating would be the origin of the initial concept: who initially thought of the concept of building a transport system underground? Also, to have convinced people of the benefits of travelling in damp, probably badly lit, claustophobic and smoke/steam-filled tunnels must have been a supreme marketing exercise in itself.