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Does anyone recall what's at the former location of Second African American Presbyterian Church now? I'd like to get rid of the redlink.
Smith's Hall should probably either get it's own article or redirect to an abolitionist article.
I don't know that Young Men's Vigilant Association is linking to the best choice either. - Mdsummermsw ( talk) 18:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
For the chruch location, check out: http://www.history.pcusa.org/finding/phs%2033.xml -- evrik ( talk) 18:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
This article gives the date of the riot as 1842 but the main page gives 1852. Can someone correct either, please?
Shir-El
too 15:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Three times, an IP has changed "As the paraders neared Mother Bethel Church, they were attacked by a mob of Irish Catholics.", removing "of Irish Catholics" twice and the third time removing the source added in answer to the complaint.
Peculiar that the rest of the article repeatedly refers to Irish Catholics and the recurring tensions between Irish Catholics and Protestants leading to this clash that started as the marchers neared Mother Bethel Church and led to the destruction of the Second African American Presbyterian Church. Another seemingly random link is the see also to Philadelphia Nativist Riots.
Lots of seemingly unrelated material in this article, if the IP editor is correct.
Let's see what we have. The source removed (Gregory, Kia. December 7, 2005, Philadelphia Weekly. " Monumental Achievement". Accessed April 30, 2008.) is repeatedly cited throughout the article. Is it a "proper" book? Well, it's not a book. Is it, um, proper? Well, it's apparently proper enough for the rest of the article. Is it a "newspaper of record"? No, it's not government authorized (it's in the U.S.). That said, it's a reliable source for the material presented.
What else do we have? How about Robert Purvis? What does he have to do with this? "The Irish rioters headed west toward the home of prominent and outspoken African American leader Robert Purvis at 9th and Lombard. Purvis sat on the steps of his home armed and ready. Ultimately, his home was spared from the inferno by the intervention of a Catholic priest." [1] Note: the mob of Irish immigrants was blocked by a Catholic priest. (Again, is the Historical Society of Pennsylvania a "proper book or newspaper of record"? No, but it is certainly a reliable source for the material presented.) Read the whole thing: "Irish immigrants", "Irish mob", "The Irish were challenged by the Nativists' religious and racial bigotry", "Irish rioters", "Catholic priest", etc.
We certainly have more material to add here, covering the mob's attacks on firemen spraying water on the fires, attacking police attempting to disperse the crowd, etc. [2]
So why the bland "angry mob of whites" in the PHMC marker? Simple. "Irish Catholics" being called out as one of the "bad guys" -- even 170 years ago in one of numerous racial/ethic incidents -- is not palatable politically. It is, however, verifiable.
Anyone with a day to burn at the archives could easily expand this article to several times its present size. Failing substantive discussion to the contrary, I will add the sources I've just cited for the disputed text in a day or two.
(For a "proper book", I would refer you to The Philadelphia Negro, though anyone disputing that the mobs -- as outlined in all of the sources -- were Irish Catholics will probably want to challenge DuBois on some ground or another. Newspapers from the time are obviously problematic. Yes, some research would likely turn up newspapers covering the riots, the local papers of the times would likely point the finger at whomever wasn't part of their readership.) - SummerPhD ( talk) 03:25, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
“As the paraders neared Mother Bethel Church, they were attacked by an Irish mob.[1][6][7][8][5]”
1 ^ a b c Gregory, Kia. December 7, 2005, Philadelphia Weekly. "[1]". Accessed April 30, 2008. 5 ^ a b Runcie, John. Pennsylvania History, April 1972, Penn State University Press. "'Hunting the Nigs' in Philadelphia: The Race Riot of August 1834". 39.2, pp 187-218. 6 ^ a b Preservation Alliance for Greater Philadelphia, Preservation News "Years of Growth and Challenge, 1830-1880". 7 ^ a b pbs.org, "Africans in America - Part IV: Judgement Day - Pennsylvania Hall ". Accessed 15 August 2012. 8 ^ a b Historical Society of Philadelphia, "Lombard Street Riots". Accessed 15 August 2012.
we need discussion about these sources. So below is a critical discussion of these sources cited above in reference to an Irish Mob attacking the African American march on August 1st, 1842. this article is troubling for many reasons, not the least of which because it appears that the inclusion of "Irish" and "Irish Catholic" is constructed upon not one single primary source, instead, it is mostly in reference to the work of Runcie (1972). Below you will find discussion of the Runcie article and the other citations. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 5, Runcie, John 1972. This article does not consider the 1842 Lombard Street Riots in question. It does not mention Mother Bethel Church either. It is about a different riot, in a different part of the city, in a different decade (1834). In addition, his study of primary arrest records, Runcie (1972) is only able to produce 4 Irish sounding surnames out of 60 arrests (Runcie 1972:194). With only 4 Irish sounding surnames, he concludes that the mob was Irish. He does not quantify any of his ethnic data from the arrest, nor does he provide a count or ratio of the total amount of Irish verses Anglo-Saxon or German sounding names found in the 60 arrest he investigated. Furthermore, he admits that non-Irish sounding names are also included in the list of 60 arrests, however ignores this avenue of potential research. In addition, first hand witness statements (from an Englishman) about this 1834 riot do not mention an Irish mob (Brothers 1840:197-99). Surely, an Englishman who witnessed this riot first hand would know an Irish mob if he ever saw one. Instead, Runcie cites another Englishman by the name of Edward Adby who was not present to witness the riots firsthand himself. Instead, Adby is interested in producing a compelling book about his travels in the United States. Instead of citing a firshand account like Brothers (1840) above, Runcie cites Adby, who passes along second or third hand rumors from unknown individuals and sources that the mob was “Irish laborers” and some “class of mechanics”of which I assume he means apprentice Native born Americans. In addition, Brothers clearly states that along with poor white workers, public officers, merchants, and traders were also involved in the 1834 riot (Brothers 1840:198). Moreover, Runcie must rely upon the 1833 and 1835 city directories to ‘Hunt the Micks’ down, because no city directory exists for the important 1834 riot year (Runcie 1972: 192). He admits that many Anglo-Saxon names (he uses John Brown as example) are too common in city directories, so he decides instead only focus on tracking down Irish sounding names. This is a fatal error in this study, as his work is now clearly biases and appears to be more witch hunt than scholarship. To make matters worse, the author proposes to base his research upon the 1835 “Enumeration of Tax” book that only considers taxable persons over the age of 21, even though contemporary accounts of this riot indicate that the mob consisted of “lads from 17 to 20 years old… (Runcie 1972:193)”. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
In conclusion, Runcie’s work is not about the 1842 Lombard Street riot, it is about a different riot altogether, in a different part of the city, from almost a decade prior (1834). I believe that these riots are being mixed up on this wiki page, and mis-representing the role of Irish in the Lombard Riot. So why is Runcie cited as evidence that the mob at “near Mother Bethel Church” during the 1842 Lombard Riot was wholly Irish? Also, Runcie’s conclusions are flawed because he claims that 1834 mob was Irish based upon his reporting of 4 surnames (reported out of 60 arrest) within the primary documents that he used in the study. Runcie also ignores and excludes from further research “several” Anglo-Saxon surnames found in the arrest records “because of the popularity” (Runcie 1972: 192-3). Even after all these flaws in the research, Runcie fails to consider that Scotch-Irish, African Americans, and both Protestant and Catholic Irish people often share similar or identical surnames. Even with these obvious flaws in his surname analysis, Runcie still insist that the mob was Irish Catholic (Runcie 1972:198) based upon 4 Irish sounding surnames out of the 60 arrest records he surveyed in this study. In addition, Runcie is unable to produce a single firsthand account from this 1834 riot that describes the mob as either wholly or even partially Irish. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 6, Preservation Alliance for Greater Philadelphia cites Runcie’s work (see above). This is a tertiary source AT BEST. This Preservation Alliance (no date) manuscript cites the 1972 Runcie article (described in detail above) as the sole evidence of Irish involvement in the 1842 Lombard Street Riot. Runcie’s (1972) study is about a different riot, in a different decade (1834), in a different part of the city. This is not evidence that the Lombard Street mob was Irish nor should it be considered a reliable source.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 7, pbs.org “Pennsylvania Hall” (Accessed 12-26-12). There is no mention of any Irish Mobs at this source. No mention of Irish involvement at either the Lombard Street Riot (1842) or the Pennsylvania Hall riot (previous decade 1838). The Pennsylvania Hall Riot was not part of the 1842 Lombard Street Riots in question. This is not a reliable citation for the Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 8, philaplace.org, Lombard Street Riots. This web blog does not cite any reliable historical content as to the Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot. Instead, it paraphrases the general thesis of the 1972 Runcie article, and in an unethically manner, does not give proper credit or citation to Runcie’s article or thesis. The web blog does however provide two hot-linked web pages near the bottom of the page (one link broken 12-26-12), and as of 12-26-12, neither of which provides any evidence of a wholly or partially Irish Catholic mob during the Lombard Street Riot. This is not a reliable citation for the Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot.
The website itself ( philaplace.org ) is funded by the Historical Society of Philadelphia. This is a local group and they do not have regulatory authority to review projects or make decisions on state sponsored history projects like the installation of the historic marker sign at the corner of Sixth and Lombard streets. It does not have an author on this particular webpage, but list 10 interns in the “Research and Writing” department. So not only does this webpage paraphrase the questionable work of Runcie (1972, described above in detail), it was very likely produced by an intern with unknown background and historical training.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 9, Pennsylvania Freeman, n. 14. July 18, 1844. "The Riots”. In addition to the above sources that are being used as evidence on this wiki page for singular Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot, the leading abolitionists’ newspaper in the city, the Pennsylvania Freeman, denied claims that Philadelphia riots in general principally involved the Irish and stated such in very clear terms: “…the jury, conducted the investigation with manifest partiality. They neglected and refused, as we are assured, to examine persons who could give them information, but who were either Catholics or of foreign birth… This presentment was followed by a charge …riots proceeded principally from foreigners, an assertion which we believe untrue in reference to Philadelphia, and which if true, was peculiarly inappropriate to the occasion. “ ("The Riots," Pennsylvania Freeman, n. 14. 18 July, 1844 (
http://www.yale.edu/glc/archive/953.htm)
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 11. Lyons, Sioban. March 2008. "Philadelphia photos - Street shots and architecture. Finally, I present the very clear evidence of the March 2005 decision of the Pennsylvania Historical and Cultural Commission (PHCC) in choosing the language of the historical marker sign placed at the corner of Sixth and Lombard streets. The sign DOES NOT indicate that the 1842 Lombard Street riot was perpetrated by Irish, instead it reads “Lombard Street Riot — Here on August 1842 an angry mob of whites attacked a parade celebrating Jamaican Emancipation Day. A riot ensued. African Americans were beaten and their homes looted. The rioting lasted for 3 days. A local church and abolition meeting place were destroyed by fire.” The PHCC are the legal reviewers of all public works projects that involve federal and state monies in the state of PA. This project involved these monies so it came under PHCC review. After a rigorous review process, PHCC concluded, as does everybody who honestly evaluates these sources, that this WAS NOT an exclusively Irish mob.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Brothers, T. 1840 The United States of North America as they are: not as they are generally described; being a cure for radicalism. Longman, Orme, Brown, Green & Longmans.
After reviewing these sources closely, I hope you come to the same decision that the professionals at PHCC and I have come to, and remove all references of Irish Catholic mob. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
If you do not have access to Runcie, then why do you cite this article as proof that it was "an Irish Catholic Mob"? Runcie does not discuss the Lomabard Street Riot. Runcie is all about another riot in another a previous decade (1834). If we cannot discuss if your citation of Runcie is "correct" or "right", then Wiki is a dictatorship, and not a community Wiki project. So I made changes and I ask you again; Why is Runcie 1972 cited as proof that the "Irish Catholic Mob" rioted at the Lombard Street riot? We will take these one at a time. P.Mothoin ( talk) 21:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
You seem to be disputing that the mob was Irish. The current version of the article gives four sources for this:
I am wholly satisfied that reliable sources unequivocally state that the mob was Irish. - SummerPhD ( talk) 18:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Can someone more in the know determine if this is correct? "Lombard Street Riot — Here on August 1842 an angry mob of whites attacked a parade celebrating Jamaican Emancipation Day." should it be "in"? Srednuas Lenoroc ( talk) 09:09, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Grammar is a technicality and the dropping of information makes it a proof. Do a search: "on October 2015"--you will see the possibilities.
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![]() | A fact from Lombard Street riot appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 5 May 2008, and was viewed approximately 4,807 times (
disclaimer) (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on August 1, 2013, August 1, 2017, and August 1, 2019. |
Does anyone recall what's at the former location of Second African American Presbyterian Church now? I'd like to get rid of the redlink.
Smith's Hall should probably either get it's own article or redirect to an abolitionist article.
I don't know that Young Men's Vigilant Association is linking to the best choice either. - Mdsummermsw ( talk) 18:20, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
For the chruch location, check out: http://www.history.pcusa.org/finding/phs%2033.xml -- evrik ( talk) 18:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
This article gives the date of the riot as 1842 but the main page gives 1852. Can someone correct either, please?
Shir-El
too 15:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Three times, an IP has changed "As the paraders neared Mother Bethel Church, they were attacked by a mob of Irish Catholics.", removing "of Irish Catholics" twice and the third time removing the source added in answer to the complaint.
Peculiar that the rest of the article repeatedly refers to Irish Catholics and the recurring tensions between Irish Catholics and Protestants leading to this clash that started as the marchers neared Mother Bethel Church and led to the destruction of the Second African American Presbyterian Church. Another seemingly random link is the see also to Philadelphia Nativist Riots.
Lots of seemingly unrelated material in this article, if the IP editor is correct.
Let's see what we have. The source removed (Gregory, Kia. December 7, 2005, Philadelphia Weekly. " Monumental Achievement". Accessed April 30, 2008.) is repeatedly cited throughout the article. Is it a "proper" book? Well, it's not a book. Is it, um, proper? Well, it's apparently proper enough for the rest of the article. Is it a "newspaper of record"? No, it's not government authorized (it's in the U.S.). That said, it's a reliable source for the material presented.
What else do we have? How about Robert Purvis? What does he have to do with this? "The Irish rioters headed west toward the home of prominent and outspoken African American leader Robert Purvis at 9th and Lombard. Purvis sat on the steps of his home armed and ready. Ultimately, his home was spared from the inferno by the intervention of a Catholic priest." [1] Note: the mob of Irish immigrants was blocked by a Catholic priest. (Again, is the Historical Society of Pennsylvania a "proper book or newspaper of record"? No, but it is certainly a reliable source for the material presented.) Read the whole thing: "Irish immigrants", "Irish mob", "The Irish were challenged by the Nativists' religious and racial bigotry", "Irish rioters", "Catholic priest", etc.
We certainly have more material to add here, covering the mob's attacks on firemen spraying water on the fires, attacking police attempting to disperse the crowd, etc. [2]
So why the bland "angry mob of whites" in the PHMC marker? Simple. "Irish Catholics" being called out as one of the "bad guys" -- even 170 years ago in one of numerous racial/ethic incidents -- is not palatable politically. It is, however, verifiable.
Anyone with a day to burn at the archives could easily expand this article to several times its present size. Failing substantive discussion to the contrary, I will add the sources I've just cited for the disputed text in a day or two.
(For a "proper book", I would refer you to The Philadelphia Negro, though anyone disputing that the mobs -- as outlined in all of the sources -- were Irish Catholics will probably want to challenge DuBois on some ground or another. Newspapers from the time are obviously problematic. Yes, some research would likely turn up newspapers covering the riots, the local papers of the times would likely point the finger at whomever wasn't part of their readership.) - SummerPhD ( talk) 03:25, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
“As the paraders neared Mother Bethel Church, they were attacked by an Irish mob.[1][6][7][8][5]”
1 ^ a b c Gregory, Kia. December 7, 2005, Philadelphia Weekly. "[1]". Accessed April 30, 2008. 5 ^ a b Runcie, John. Pennsylvania History, April 1972, Penn State University Press. "'Hunting the Nigs' in Philadelphia: The Race Riot of August 1834". 39.2, pp 187-218. 6 ^ a b Preservation Alliance for Greater Philadelphia, Preservation News "Years of Growth and Challenge, 1830-1880". 7 ^ a b pbs.org, "Africans in America - Part IV: Judgement Day - Pennsylvania Hall ". Accessed 15 August 2012. 8 ^ a b Historical Society of Philadelphia, "Lombard Street Riots". Accessed 15 August 2012.
we need discussion about these sources. So below is a critical discussion of these sources cited above in reference to an Irish Mob attacking the African American march on August 1st, 1842. this article is troubling for many reasons, not the least of which because it appears that the inclusion of "Irish" and "Irish Catholic" is constructed upon not one single primary source, instead, it is mostly in reference to the work of Runcie (1972). Below you will find discussion of the Runcie article and the other citations. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 5, Runcie, John 1972. This article does not consider the 1842 Lombard Street Riots in question. It does not mention Mother Bethel Church either. It is about a different riot, in a different part of the city, in a different decade (1834). In addition, his study of primary arrest records, Runcie (1972) is only able to produce 4 Irish sounding surnames out of 60 arrests (Runcie 1972:194). With only 4 Irish sounding surnames, he concludes that the mob was Irish. He does not quantify any of his ethnic data from the arrest, nor does he provide a count or ratio of the total amount of Irish verses Anglo-Saxon or German sounding names found in the 60 arrest he investigated. Furthermore, he admits that non-Irish sounding names are also included in the list of 60 arrests, however ignores this avenue of potential research. In addition, first hand witness statements (from an Englishman) about this 1834 riot do not mention an Irish mob (Brothers 1840:197-99). Surely, an Englishman who witnessed this riot first hand would know an Irish mob if he ever saw one. Instead, Runcie cites another Englishman by the name of Edward Adby who was not present to witness the riots firsthand himself. Instead, Adby is interested in producing a compelling book about his travels in the United States. Instead of citing a firshand account like Brothers (1840) above, Runcie cites Adby, who passes along second or third hand rumors from unknown individuals and sources that the mob was “Irish laborers” and some “class of mechanics”of which I assume he means apprentice Native born Americans. In addition, Brothers clearly states that along with poor white workers, public officers, merchants, and traders were also involved in the 1834 riot (Brothers 1840:198). Moreover, Runcie must rely upon the 1833 and 1835 city directories to ‘Hunt the Micks’ down, because no city directory exists for the important 1834 riot year (Runcie 1972: 192). He admits that many Anglo-Saxon names (he uses John Brown as example) are too common in city directories, so he decides instead only focus on tracking down Irish sounding names. This is a fatal error in this study, as his work is now clearly biases and appears to be more witch hunt than scholarship. To make matters worse, the author proposes to base his research upon the 1835 “Enumeration of Tax” book that only considers taxable persons over the age of 21, even though contemporary accounts of this riot indicate that the mob consisted of “lads from 17 to 20 years old… (Runcie 1972:193)”. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
In conclusion, Runcie’s work is not about the 1842 Lombard Street riot, it is about a different riot altogether, in a different part of the city, from almost a decade prior (1834). I believe that these riots are being mixed up on this wiki page, and mis-representing the role of Irish in the Lombard Riot. So why is Runcie cited as evidence that the mob at “near Mother Bethel Church” during the 1842 Lombard Riot was wholly Irish? Also, Runcie’s conclusions are flawed because he claims that 1834 mob was Irish based upon his reporting of 4 surnames (reported out of 60 arrest) within the primary documents that he used in the study. Runcie also ignores and excludes from further research “several” Anglo-Saxon surnames found in the arrest records “because of the popularity” (Runcie 1972: 192-3). Even after all these flaws in the research, Runcie fails to consider that Scotch-Irish, African Americans, and both Protestant and Catholic Irish people often share similar or identical surnames. Even with these obvious flaws in his surname analysis, Runcie still insist that the mob was Irish Catholic (Runcie 1972:198) based upon 4 Irish sounding surnames out of the 60 arrest records he surveyed in this study. In addition, Runcie is unable to produce a single firsthand account from this 1834 riot that describes the mob as either wholly or even partially Irish. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 6, Preservation Alliance for Greater Philadelphia cites Runcie’s work (see above). This is a tertiary source AT BEST. This Preservation Alliance (no date) manuscript cites the 1972 Runcie article (described in detail above) as the sole evidence of Irish involvement in the 1842 Lombard Street Riot. Runcie’s (1972) study is about a different riot, in a different decade (1834), in a different part of the city. This is not evidence that the Lombard Street mob was Irish nor should it be considered a reliable source.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 7, pbs.org “Pennsylvania Hall” (Accessed 12-26-12). There is no mention of any Irish Mobs at this source. No mention of Irish involvement at either the Lombard Street Riot (1842) or the Pennsylvania Hall riot (previous decade 1838). The Pennsylvania Hall Riot was not part of the 1842 Lombard Street Riots in question. This is not a reliable citation for the Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 8, philaplace.org, Lombard Street Riots. This web blog does not cite any reliable historical content as to the Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot. Instead, it paraphrases the general thesis of the 1972 Runcie article, and in an unethically manner, does not give proper credit or citation to Runcie’s article or thesis. The web blog does however provide two hot-linked web pages near the bottom of the page (one link broken 12-26-12), and as of 12-26-12, neither of which provides any evidence of a wholly or partially Irish Catholic mob during the Lombard Street Riot. This is not a reliable citation for the Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot.
The website itself ( philaplace.org ) is funded by the Historical Society of Philadelphia. This is a local group and they do not have regulatory authority to review projects or make decisions on state sponsored history projects like the installation of the historic marker sign at the corner of Sixth and Lombard streets. It does not have an author on this particular webpage, but list 10 interns in the “Research and Writing” department. So not only does this webpage paraphrase the questionable work of Runcie (1972, described above in detail), it was very likely produced by an intern with unknown background and historical training.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 9, Pennsylvania Freeman, n. 14. July 18, 1844. "The Riots”. In addition to the above sources that are being used as evidence on this wiki page for singular Irish involvement in the Lombard Street Riot, the leading abolitionists’ newspaper in the city, the Pennsylvania Freeman, denied claims that Philadelphia riots in general principally involved the Irish and stated such in very clear terms: “…the jury, conducted the investigation with manifest partiality. They neglected and refused, as we are assured, to examine persons who could give them information, but who were either Catholics or of foreign birth… This presentment was followed by a charge …riots proceeded principally from foreigners, an assertion which we believe untrue in reference to Philadelphia, and which if true, was peculiarly inappropriate to the occasion. “ ("The Riots," Pennsylvania Freeman, n. 14. 18 July, 1844 (
http://www.yale.edu/glc/archive/953.htm)
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Source 11. Lyons, Sioban. March 2008. "Philadelphia photos - Street shots and architecture. Finally, I present the very clear evidence of the March 2005 decision of the Pennsylvania Historical and Cultural Commission (PHCC) in choosing the language of the historical marker sign placed at the corner of Sixth and Lombard streets. The sign DOES NOT indicate that the 1842 Lombard Street riot was perpetrated by Irish, instead it reads “Lombard Street Riot — Here on August 1842 an angry mob of whites attacked a parade celebrating Jamaican Emancipation Day. A riot ensued. African Americans were beaten and their homes looted. The rioting lasted for 3 days. A local church and abolition meeting place were destroyed by fire.” The PHCC are the legal reviewers of all public works projects that involve federal and state monies in the state of PA. This project involved these monies so it came under PHCC review. After a rigorous review process, PHCC concluded, as does everybody who honestly evaluates these sources, that this WAS NOT an exclusively Irish mob.
P.Mothoin (
talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Brothers, T. 1840 The United States of North America as they are: not as they are generally described; being a cure for radicalism. Longman, Orme, Brown, Green & Longmans.
After reviewing these sources closely, I hope you come to the same decision that the professionals at PHCC and I have come to, and remove all references of Irish Catholic mob. P.Mothoin ( talk) 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
If you do not have access to Runcie, then why do you cite this article as proof that it was "an Irish Catholic Mob"? Runcie does not discuss the Lomabard Street Riot. Runcie is all about another riot in another a previous decade (1834). If we cannot discuss if your citation of Runcie is "correct" or "right", then Wiki is a dictatorship, and not a community Wiki project. So I made changes and I ask you again; Why is Runcie 1972 cited as proof that the "Irish Catholic Mob" rioted at the Lombard Street riot? We will take these one at a time. P.Mothoin ( talk) 21:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
You seem to be disputing that the mob was Irish. The current version of the article gives four sources for this:
I am wholly satisfied that reliable sources unequivocally state that the mob was Irish. - SummerPhD ( talk) 18:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Can someone more in the know determine if this is correct? "Lombard Street Riot — Here on August 1842 an angry mob of whites attacked a parade celebrating Jamaican Emancipation Day." should it be "in"? Srednuas Lenoroc ( talk) 09:09, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Grammar is a technicality and the dropping of information makes it a proof. Do a search: "on October 2015"--you will see the possibilities.
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