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These sources, given on Lofoi article rv are not reliable, and go against Wikipedia policies, but somehow has been done, other users can progressively submit the same too. -- Notesenses ( talk) 17:43, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
-- Notesenses ( talk) 20:20, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
(::Right, (previously) I meant their sources before. Pov) -- Notesenses ( talk) 21:38, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Slavic-speaking Greeks were allowed to return to Greece after the Greek civil war. You cannot argue with that. Do you have any evidence that the Slavic-speakers of Lofoi are from the "Republic of Macedonia" or its diaspora other than the language that they speak since it appears that a lot of people speak this Slavic dialect who have never seen the "Republic of Macedonia" (and neither have their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, or great-great-grandparents). Moreover, there is historical evidence for Lofoi that shows that these Slavic-speakers had more to do with Bulgaria. In fact, it is also clear in the article about the language, that the Slavic-language dialect spoken in the Macedonian region of Greece, is significantly different to the language spoken in the "Republic of Macedonia" i.e. it is not identical to the language spoken there, just as it is not identical to the language spoken in Bulgaria. Yet, the difference is not mentioned at the top of that article. Nipsonanomhmata (Talk) 01:28, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I get the point. You are trying to convince the world that the Slavic population of the Macedonian region of Greece is attributable to the "Republic of Macedonia". Obviously there are references that support that view. But historically the Slavic population of northern Greece has been called Christian, Serbian, or Bulgarian, or Slavomacedonian (which specifically means Slavs of the Macedonian region of northern Greece and not Slavs of the "Republic of Macedonia"). The history of the territory is complicated by many conflicts, by refugees, by immigrants, and was also affected by the schools and churches that were supported by countries like Bulgaria. In the case of this particular village the population was lucky enough to be provided with a school and a priest by the Bulgarian Exarchate. Historical records show that the local population was considered to be Bulgarian. Along come a few propagandists who favor a revised version of history and claim that these people are "Macedonians" who are of the same gene pool and language pool as that of the "Republic of Macedonia". Even you have said that the Slavic dialect that is used in northern Greece is only spoken in two locales in the "Republic of Macedonia". Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view, history cannot be changed that easily, no matter how often the new version of history is chanted. I also find it hard to believe that the Bulgarian school was teaching anything but Bulgarian. And let's face it. It was a Bulgarian school. It was not provided by anyone in pre-Yugoslavia. The reality is complicated further by the fact that the actual ethnicity of the individuals concerned has little to do with the language that they speak. Moreover, there were at least three Slavic factions in the Slav community in northern Greece and the factions that were supported depended on what was in the best interests of the locals concerned. Bulgaria considers what you consider as a dialect of "Macedonian" to be a dialect of "Bulgarian". Funnily enough, I looked at a Bulgarian article and was surprised at how many words I could read and understand and I have never bothered to look at the language before in my life. The written form of the Slavic language was first documented by Hellenophones. If you take the trouble to look at the letters that were written and posted a hundred and two hundred years ago. Many letters in what preceded Yugoslavia, and in Romania, Wallachia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, and even in the Ottoman Empire were written in the Greek language because the Greek language was predominant in the Balkans. Like I said. You can't change history. You can't burn all the letters that were written in the Greek language. You can't change the fact that the language that Alexander the Great used was Greek or change the fact that the coins minted for Alexander the Great were minted in the Greek language. There are no ancient coins of that dynasty and period minted in Slavic. Alexander the Great was a Hellenophone and everything that he did in ancient times was documented in the Greek language. Do you have any ancient Slavic sources that document anything? No you don't. Why? Because Slavs could not write. Only the very privileged few who were priests, educators, royalty, or the very wealthy with privileged educations could and the language that they used was Greek. The predominant religion of the "Republic of Macedonia" is Orthodox Christianity which was disseminated first by the Armenians and the Greeks. The Armenians built the first Christian churches in the world and they were Orthodox Christian. Ethnic Greeks were amongst the disciples of Christ. So this new nation that has chosen to call itself "Republic of Macedonia" owes its written language and majority religion to Greeks and Armenians (no need to exclude the Armenians). You wouldn't know that when you consider all the propaganda that comes out of Skopje. Nipsonanomhmata (Talk) 16:32, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
The whole article is such a mess. There is an issue with usage of english language that is really below the level of quality that a wikipedia article should have. The whole issue is nilpotent, about the village of Lofoi. However, I do not see why such focus on how the name is in "Macedonian" "Bulgarian" or whatever language there is. It would be the same to say that Geneva is also named Geneve in French, and it would bare the same amount of information. Personally, I just follow this article because it is very amusing to see people argue over nothingness, although I had hopes that issue would be finally resolved. Therefore, long live "the people of Zardani" , such a joke. Although , I have to state that I never found the citations credible or exhibiting scientific consensus. Yparjis ( talk) 12:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the note, Fut. I like it when admins are not sarcastic and cynical to editors. And I especially like the way that you were the one who coined the lamppost/dogpiss version. Oh, and thanks for removing the ъ version of the name, as well. -- Laveol T 18:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
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This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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These sources, given on Lofoi article rv are not reliable, and go against Wikipedia policies, but somehow has been done, other users can progressively submit the same too. -- Notesenses ( talk) 17:43, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
-- Notesenses ( talk) 20:20, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
(::Right, (previously) I meant their sources before. Pov) -- Notesenses ( talk) 21:38, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Slavic-speaking Greeks were allowed to return to Greece after the Greek civil war. You cannot argue with that. Do you have any evidence that the Slavic-speakers of Lofoi are from the "Republic of Macedonia" or its diaspora other than the language that they speak since it appears that a lot of people speak this Slavic dialect who have never seen the "Republic of Macedonia" (and neither have their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, or great-great-grandparents). Moreover, there is historical evidence for Lofoi that shows that these Slavic-speakers had more to do with Bulgaria. In fact, it is also clear in the article about the language, that the Slavic-language dialect spoken in the Macedonian region of Greece, is significantly different to the language spoken in the "Republic of Macedonia" i.e. it is not identical to the language spoken there, just as it is not identical to the language spoken in Bulgaria. Yet, the difference is not mentioned at the top of that article. Nipsonanomhmata (Talk) 01:28, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I get the point. You are trying to convince the world that the Slavic population of the Macedonian region of Greece is attributable to the "Republic of Macedonia". Obviously there are references that support that view. But historically the Slavic population of northern Greece has been called Christian, Serbian, or Bulgarian, or Slavomacedonian (which specifically means Slavs of the Macedonian region of northern Greece and not Slavs of the "Republic of Macedonia"). The history of the territory is complicated by many conflicts, by refugees, by immigrants, and was also affected by the schools and churches that were supported by countries like Bulgaria. In the case of this particular village the population was lucky enough to be provided with a school and a priest by the Bulgarian Exarchate. Historical records show that the local population was considered to be Bulgarian. Along come a few propagandists who favor a revised version of history and claim that these people are "Macedonians" who are of the same gene pool and language pool as that of the "Republic of Macedonia". Even you have said that the Slavic dialect that is used in northern Greece is only spoken in two locales in the "Republic of Macedonia". Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your point of view, history cannot be changed that easily, no matter how often the new version of history is chanted. I also find it hard to believe that the Bulgarian school was teaching anything but Bulgarian. And let's face it. It was a Bulgarian school. It was not provided by anyone in pre-Yugoslavia. The reality is complicated further by the fact that the actual ethnicity of the individuals concerned has little to do with the language that they speak. Moreover, there were at least three Slavic factions in the Slav community in northern Greece and the factions that were supported depended on what was in the best interests of the locals concerned. Bulgaria considers what you consider as a dialect of "Macedonian" to be a dialect of "Bulgarian". Funnily enough, I looked at a Bulgarian article and was surprised at how many words I could read and understand and I have never bothered to look at the language before in my life. The written form of the Slavic language was first documented by Hellenophones. If you take the trouble to look at the letters that were written and posted a hundred and two hundred years ago. Many letters in what preceded Yugoslavia, and in Romania, Wallachia, Moldavia, Bulgaria, and even in the Ottoman Empire were written in the Greek language because the Greek language was predominant in the Balkans. Like I said. You can't change history. You can't burn all the letters that were written in the Greek language. You can't change the fact that the language that Alexander the Great used was Greek or change the fact that the coins minted for Alexander the Great were minted in the Greek language. There are no ancient coins of that dynasty and period minted in Slavic. Alexander the Great was a Hellenophone and everything that he did in ancient times was documented in the Greek language. Do you have any ancient Slavic sources that document anything? No you don't. Why? Because Slavs could not write. Only the very privileged few who were priests, educators, royalty, or the very wealthy with privileged educations could and the language that they used was Greek. The predominant religion of the "Republic of Macedonia" is Orthodox Christianity which was disseminated first by the Armenians and the Greeks. The Armenians built the first Christian churches in the world and they were Orthodox Christian. Ethnic Greeks were amongst the disciples of Christ. So this new nation that has chosen to call itself "Republic of Macedonia" owes its written language and majority religion to Greeks and Armenians (no need to exclude the Armenians). You wouldn't know that when you consider all the propaganda that comes out of Skopje. Nipsonanomhmata (Talk) 16:32, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
The whole article is such a mess. There is an issue with usage of english language that is really below the level of quality that a wikipedia article should have. The whole issue is nilpotent, about the village of Lofoi. However, I do not see why such focus on how the name is in "Macedonian" "Bulgarian" or whatever language there is. It would be the same to say that Geneva is also named Geneve in French, and it would bare the same amount of information. Personally, I just follow this article because it is very amusing to see people argue over nothingness, although I had hopes that issue would be finally resolved. Therefore, long live "the people of Zardani" , such a joke. Although , I have to state that I never found the citations credible or exhibiting scientific consensus. Yparjis ( talk) 12:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the note, Fut. I like it when admins are not sarcastic and cynical to editors. And I especially like the way that you were the one who coined the lamppost/dogpiss version. Oh, and thanks for removing the ъ version of the name, as well. -- Laveol T 18:53, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lofoi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:41, 5 January 2018 (UTC)