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Not for nothing, but the Annales Cambriae B Text lists

Annus. Reyn Scotus mentitus est se esse filium Maredut qui obtinuit dextrales Britones; quem Seisil rex Venedotiae in hostio Guili expugnavit et occisus est Reyn.Eilaf vastavit Demetiam. Menevia fracta est.
Annus. Lewelin filius Seisil obiit. Riderch filius Yestin dextrales rexit Brittones.

which seems to suggest that Seisyll was king of Gwynedd in his own right. —  LlywelynII 16:45, 28 January 2013 (UTC) reply

There's a long and somewhat confusing section in this article that appears to be about Llywelyn's ancestry and possibly descendants (I can't quite make sense of it), starting at "As Llywelyn's grandfather is not known". A mostly coherent paragraph follows that, but the next paragraphs after that don't seem to have much connection to the subject of the article, and they seem difficult to understand. If these are relevant, they need major cleanup, but I'm not sure whether they're necessary to the article. Since these paragraphs do make up a significant section of the article, I wanted to see what other people thought - how much of these paragraphs is relevant information, and how can we get that into a more readable form than the one it's currently in? Goldenrod42 ( talk) 20:55, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply