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Lizbeth Webb article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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According to Lisbeth's birth certificate, she was born at 24 Hamilton Road, Reading on the 30th Jan 1926. Her name was recorded as Betty Ethel Holton, by her father Frederick Arthur Holton, her mother is recorded as Ethel Holton, late Strutt, formerly Vining. Her father's occupation is stated as Locomotive Engine Driver. The birth was registered at Reading (St Giles) 10th Feb 1926 by Charles Moss (Registrar), informant was F.A.Holton. (See FreeBMD, Reading Register Office, Vol. 2c Page 599)
I have altered this page three times now and my edit keeps being reversed, despite quoting exact detail taken from Lizbeth Webb's official U.K. birth registration (Certificate). There are numerous Family Trees created by serious amateur genealogists on Ancestry.com, most of whom are related to her, some have attached an image of a certified birth certificate. Certified copies of U.K. Birth Certificates can be obtained by anyone, simply by applying directly to Crown at THE GRO (General Register Office). I suggest you search FreeBMD to see if in fact there was a birth of an Elizabeth Holton or Elizabeth Sandra Holton anywhere in England in 1926. You will quickly find from an index search that there was NO SUCH PERSON born in 1926, only a Betty E Holton is recorded. And, if you send to The GRO for that certificate using the reference numbers indicated in the index, you will then know that this is in fact Lizbeth Webb. Whereas, there is no evidence for her birth name being "Elizabeth Sandra Holton" and simply stating that someone is happy with it is not evidence. In the U.K., a persons birth name is generally recognised as that given by their parent/s at first registration, that is a matter of indisputable public record and fact. Newcomber ( talk) 17:57, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
If we are talking about a birth name here (which I assume we are), it can be quite different to what a person prefers to call themselves by the end of their life. It is my belief that Lizbeth's name must have changed several times throughout her life, Elizabeth Sandra was probably something she acquired after her mother passed away and she was living with her aunt and uncle, she certainly referred to herself as Betty S. Wills-Webb by 1945. However, you cannot escape the fact that there is no birth record for an Elizabeth Sandra Holton, only Betty Ethel Holton, as she was named by her father. Most databases regarding the peerage seem to reference her as Elizabeth Sandra Holton, but if nobody checks her actual birth record, these kinds of errors will simply be perpetuated. As far as my causing an edit war, please accept my apology, I am a complete novice here, but given the names of her parents and the lack of another Elizabeth or Betty Holton in Reading at that time, I'm confident I am correct and stand by my edit. The question is; does Wikikpedia want to reflect the facts, or does it want to perpetuate errors? As a genealogist I prefer to give people their birth name as their primary name so that it makes sense in their family tree, but also attach their adoptive names and family as a matter of supplementary fact. Newcomber ( talk) 14:32, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the detailed explanation of the rules. I must say that as a novice and only very occasional editor, the rules are very comprehensive and quite a lot to take in, more than a bit of a learning curve when you start late in the wiki calendar. Hopefully, this debate will reach a technically correct and agreeable resolution to the subject in hand. On this occasion I do understand that Lizbeth’s birth name is probably secondary to her other names, but at least if the article does contain her correct birth name somewhere then the correct details about her family line (bloodline) will be reflected on websites like Ancestry.com and Wikitree, where people do occasionally reference this website as their source. Newcomber ( talk) 10:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
A further suggestion regarding the birth of Lizbeth Webb. Her mother's maiden name should be removed "nee Vining", although Lizbeth's mother Ethel gave her father's name as Cecil Vining upon her marriage to Lizbeth's father Frederick Arthur Holton in 1920, this is now known to be incorrect. I would suggest the removal of her maiden name, anyone wishing to know more about this should private message me? Newcomber ( talk) 15:18, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I made the change and added a footnote. Let me know if I missed anything important. Best regards. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 20:20, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lizbeth Webb article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
According to Lisbeth's birth certificate, she was born at 24 Hamilton Road, Reading on the 30th Jan 1926. Her name was recorded as Betty Ethel Holton, by her father Frederick Arthur Holton, her mother is recorded as Ethel Holton, late Strutt, formerly Vining. Her father's occupation is stated as Locomotive Engine Driver. The birth was registered at Reading (St Giles) 10th Feb 1926 by Charles Moss (Registrar), informant was F.A.Holton. (See FreeBMD, Reading Register Office, Vol. 2c Page 599)
I have altered this page three times now and my edit keeps being reversed, despite quoting exact detail taken from Lizbeth Webb's official U.K. birth registration (Certificate). There are numerous Family Trees created by serious amateur genealogists on Ancestry.com, most of whom are related to her, some have attached an image of a certified birth certificate. Certified copies of U.K. Birth Certificates can be obtained by anyone, simply by applying directly to Crown at THE GRO (General Register Office). I suggest you search FreeBMD to see if in fact there was a birth of an Elizabeth Holton or Elizabeth Sandra Holton anywhere in England in 1926. You will quickly find from an index search that there was NO SUCH PERSON born in 1926, only a Betty E Holton is recorded. And, if you send to The GRO for that certificate using the reference numbers indicated in the index, you will then know that this is in fact Lizbeth Webb. Whereas, there is no evidence for her birth name being "Elizabeth Sandra Holton" and simply stating that someone is happy with it is not evidence. In the U.K., a persons birth name is generally recognised as that given by their parent/s at first registration, that is a matter of indisputable public record and fact. Newcomber ( talk) 17:57, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
If we are talking about a birth name here (which I assume we are), it can be quite different to what a person prefers to call themselves by the end of their life. It is my belief that Lizbeth's name must have changed several times throughout her life, Elizabeth Sandra was probably something she acquired after her mother passed away and she was living with her aunt and uncle, she certainly referred to herself as Betty S. Wills-Webb by 1945. However, you cannot escape the fact that there is no birth record for an Elizabeth Sandra Holton, only Betty Ethel Holton, as she was named by her father. Most databases regarding the peerage seem to reference her as Elizabeth Sandra Holton, but if nobody checks her actual birth record, these kinds of errors will simply be perpetuated. As far as my causing an edit war, please accept my apology, I am a complete novice here, but given the names of her parents and the lack of another Elizabeth or Betty Holton in Reading at that time, I'm confident I am correct and stand by my edit. The question is; does Wikikpedia want to reflect the facts, or does it want to perpetuate errors? As a genealogist I prefer to give people their birth name as their primary name so that it makes sense in their family tree, but also attach their adoptive names and family as a matter of supplementary fact. Newcomber ( talk) 14:32, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for the detailed explanation of the rules. I must say that as a novice and only very occasional editor, the rules are very comprehensive and quite a lot to take in, more than a bit of a learning curve when you start late in the wiki calendar. Hopefully, this debate will reach a technically correct and agreeable resolution to the subject in hand. On this occasion I do understand that Lizbeth’s birth name is probably secondary to her other names, but at least if the article does contain her correct birth name somewhere then the correct details about her family line (bloodline) will be reflected on websites like Ancestry.com and Wikitree, where people do occasionally reference this website as their source. Newcomber ( talk) 10:47, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
A further suggestion regarding the birth of Lizbeth Webb. Her mother's maiden name should be removed "nee Vining", although Lizbeth's mother Ethel gave her father's name as Cecil Vining upon her marriage to Lizbeth's father Frederick Arthur Holton in 1920, this is now known to be incorrect. I would suggest the removal of her maiden name, anyone wishing to know more about this should private message me? Newcomber ( talk) 15:18, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
OK, thanks. I made the change and added a footnote. Let me know if I missed anything important. Best regards. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 20:20, 16 July 2020 (UTC)