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Liverpool had a semi-final run in the 2009–10 UEFA Europa League. It's not found here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.173.243.143 ( talk) 03:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Jezhotwells ( talk) 19:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.
Disambiguations: found two, fixed one, Luis García, I removed the wikilink from Peter Robinson as there appears to be no article on him in Wikipedia, he is not listed at the disambiguation page. [1] Jezhotwells ( talk) 19:30, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Linkrot: None found. Jezhotwells ( talk) 19:33, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
The writer hasn't edited in a month+, might as well fail it now. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Mykleavens ( talk) 21:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC) I am planning to review this. Note that I am still fairly new to the site and this will be my first review. No comments about the article as yet. -- Mykleavens ( talk) 21:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
I've read this a couple of times now and before I even go into the specific GA criteria, I am placing the review on hold for two weeks to give editors time to address various concerns I have at present (there may well be more to come). I have several initial comments to make and I am proposing a rewrite of the lead:
I have a lot of problems with the lead which needs to be revised. Taking the current content and without introducing any additional information, I would write the lead along these lines:
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside, which has regularly taken part in European competitions since its first appearance in the 1964–65 European Cup. Qualification for English clubs is determined by the team's performance in its domestic league and cup competitions. From 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup several times by winning the former Football League First Division. Since 1992, qualification to the renamed UEFA Champions League has been via a top four placing in the Premier League. Liverpool has also achieved European qualification via the FA Cup and Football League Cup and has played in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup competitions.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for 6 seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
Liverpool has won the the European Cup five times, a British record, most recently in the 2005 UEFA Champions League Final. As a result of that victory, Liverpool won the European Champion Clubs' Cup outright and was awarded a multiple winner badge. Only Real Madrid and A.C. Milan have won the competition on more occasions. Liverpool has won the UEFA Cup (now called the Europa League) three times, a record shared with Juventus and Internazionale.
Liverpool's record win in Europe is an 11–0 victory over Strømsgodset in the 1974–75 Cup Winners' Cup; this is the club's record victory in all competitions. Jamie Carragher holds the club record for the most appearances in European competition with 136 to the end of the 2010–11 season. Steven Gerrard is Liverpool's record goalscorer in Europe with 35 to the end of the 2010–11 season.
The above are first impressions. I will continue to review in detail and will work on the GA criteria now to complete the review in due course, providing the points raised to date are addressed. -- Mykleavens ( talk) 11:18, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Over the last couple of days, I've tried to improve the wording, content and layout of the article which was nowhere near a pass for being well-written. Although some further tweaks will be needed, it is now in a much better shape (a bit like Liverpool themselves in recent months!). However, I still have concerns and am not able to pass the article yet, but I'm not going to fail it as I think it is definitely heading in the right direction. I'm continuing to keep it on hold so that more work can be done within the term of this review.
To summarise, the article remains on hold for one month pending additional information to broaden its coverage. I'll update the GA nominations page accordingly and will keep looking at the article to help where I can. -- Mykleavens ( talk) 12:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
You've done everything I've asked and I have been quite strict to try and make this not just good but better. It's been a close run thing on occasion but the article is there now. Please try to ensure it retains its current good writing as that was at first the main barrier it faced. It's a good article now so well done. And I hope to see some more Champions League content in 2012–13! -- Mykleavens ( talk) 18:46, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
"from 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup on eight occasions by winning the former Football League First Division, and qualified for the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup by winning the FA Cup and Football League Cup".
The areas in bold above need to be double checked for accuracy. [2] this seems to be an excellent online resource. Jprw ( talk) 09:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm thinking of changing
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside which has regularly and successfully taken part in European competitions since 1964. Qualification for English football clubs to European competitions is determined by teams' domestic league and cup performances; from 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup on eight occasions by winning the former Football League First Division, and qualified for the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup by winning the FA Cup and Football League Cup.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
to
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside which has regularly and successfully taken part in European football competitions since 1964, winning a total of ten European trophies.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
Any thoughts?
Jprw ( talk) 10:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes sure, apologies if I jumped the gun. I do think however that the changes I made addressed a lot of issues, mainly to do with repetition and excessive detail in the lead. The UEFA Cup photo semed to work well too. Buy you're right let's see what the reviewer says. Jprw ( talk) 12:49, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I've just noticed that the suggested lead given by the reviewer above DOES NOT correspond to what is currently in the article. I would go with installing the reviewer's, which similarly deals with a lot of the repetition problems as my rewrite, but I would cut the last sentence as it is stats that is repeated in the stats-like appendix at the end. Jprw ( talk) 13:03, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Not a lot seems to be happening at all, so I'm going to revert to my edit in the lead which seems to be at least an improvement to work from. Jprw ( talk) 09:22, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
This is what we now have (pictures of cups not shown):
Liverpool Football Club are an English professional
football club which have regularly taken part in European competitions since 1964, winning a total of ten trophies, including five
European Cups—the most successful haul of trophies of any British club.
Liverpool's first appearance in European club football was in the 1964–65 European Cup, and they went on to compete in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons, until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup nearly every season up to 2010.
Liverpool have won the the European Cup five times, a British record, most recently in the 2005 UEFA Champions League Final. As a result of that victory, Liverpool won the European Champion Clubs' Cup outright and were awarded a multiple winner badge. Only Real Madrid and A.C. Milan have won the competition on more occasions. Liverpool have also won the UEFA Cup (now called the Europa League) three times, a record in Europe which they share with Juventus and Internazionale.
I believe that in order for the rest of the article to get up to GA status, it needs to be copy edited and reworked as boldly as this—to cut out the numerous examples of language that are non-encyclopaedic; to reduce the bloated feel of much of the language; and to deal with examples of repetition.
Jprw (
talk) 09:42, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
The lead that the reviewer suggested was a massive improvement on what was there before, but it was a provisional first stab. What I and he then did was to improve it further—it still contained repetition and too much detail for the lead. The fact that the reviewer made further cuts to my reduced lead would I have thought been a tacit acknowledgement from the reviewer that the changes I made were a move in the right direction. The addition of the image of the UEFA cup was also a clear improvement (though I'm beginning to have doubts about where it should go exactly, maybe next to the description of their win in Dortmund. I'm therefore going to revert it back, putting the cups (for the time being) 100px size and both on the right Jprw ( talk) 16:27, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to you both, I agree that it's all about striking a balance now and I apologise if I went too far in my edit. I now look forward to trying to optimise the lead according to WP:LEAD, and, of course, with a view to achiving GA. I also fully agree about the issue with the images and stacking as well, I actually wasn't aware of this. Jprw ( talk) 06:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
I've just had another go at tidying up the article; see [3] [4] [5] and [6]. There still seemed to be quite a bit of non-encyclopaedic language, irrelevance, and repetition, and a couple of important bits missing. At this stage I'm worried about the following sentence:
The final, at Rome's Stadio Olimpico, was in fact an away match against A.S. Roma, and as they were playing in Roma's home ground, they had to take chances as it was unlikely Roma would not score. The tactics worked: Liverpool went ahead in the 13th minute when Phil Neal scored, but Roma equalised towards the end of the first half.
Is this source reliable? the wording/tone also seem to be questionable. Jprw ( talk) 12:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm just not 100% sure that it meets WP:RS criteria, it looks like some kind of a fansite. Also, I wonder if we can use this image somewhere. [7] Jprw ( talk) 17:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I wonder if we could contact that site to try and get them to donate WP some photos, especially of Liverpool team captains lifting a E trophy? Jprw ( talk) 08:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I shall :) Jprw ( talk) 10:32, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
I've written to the website; in the meantime, [8] this image from flickr seems to be usable. Jprw ( talk) 14:38, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
[9] [10] [11] Good idea, hopefully it will work as there are tonnes of them... Jprw ( talk) 14:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
It's complicated! Hopefully it will be possible to get a couple of images but it may take some time. Jprw ( talk) 16:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Hughes isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, which seems wrong as he lifted consecutive European cups as Liverpool captain in 1977 and 1978, and possibly the UEFA Cup in 76 as well. Jprw ( talk) 16:39, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Under new manager Joe Fagan, Liverpool reached their fourth European Cup final in 1984, after first- and second-round victories over Danish champions Odense BK and Spanish champions Athletico Madrid, respectively, a quarter-final 5-0 aggregate victory over Benfica (managed by Sven Goran Eriksson), and a highly physical 3-1 semi-final encounter against Dinamo Bucharest, which Liverpool won 3-1 on aggregate. In his 2009 autobiography Ian Rush wrote, "our games against Dinamo were the most brutal of my entire career".
This keeps getting removed and I'm not sure why. It looks like necessary background information to 1984 final, with a salient ref included. The games in the run up to the final are important and need mentioning. Jprw ( talk) 16:47, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Although on second thoughts this looks better:
and a highly physical 3-1 semi-final tie against Dinamo Bucharest, which Liverpool won 3-1 on aggregate, and which Ian Rush described as "the most brutal" games of his career. Jprw ( talk) 16:51, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
"There were no notable matches in the run up to the 1984 final"
This is simply not true. The Benfica and Bucharest games, at least, deserve a mention. Also, the games leading up to other European finals are documented in the article; hence by not including the 84 run up games the article is inconsistent. You may be right about the inadvisability of singling out the Rush quote, although both Hansen and Dalglish mention the ferocity of the tie in their bios so maybe a general description is warranted. I’m also wondering if this could be included somewhere, it looks like a great ref.
Please note that all these changes are with a view to further improving the article and I welcome the chance to discuss them. Rgds, Jprw ( talk) 06:49, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
The semi-final against Bucharest and the threats and abuse suffered and endured by Souness in the second leg ("the backs of his socks were in ribbons") are covered in detail here. Souness had broken the jaw of the Romanian player Movila in the first leg. Alan Kennedy also documents it in his book, Kennedy's Way. See here. Rgds Jprw ( talk) 16:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I have rearranged the photos of the cups to more logical places in the article. Jprw ( talk) 04:56, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
The article is going backwards: the section outlining all the competitions is lengthy and inappropriate. A see also section with the appropriate link gets round the problem perfectly; a footnote may be another solution. The image in the lead is terrible -- out of focus, not even centred. The best possible image of the trophy should be in the lead and your image relegated later on to, say, the Istanbul section until a better image of the Istanbul trophy is found. These are logical and sensible suggestions. You seem to think that you own the article and resist / immediately undo the helpful edits of other editors for taking the article forward. Jprw ( talk) 15:37, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
1) I'm trying to get permission for this image from Flicker. As a thumbnail image next to the Istanbul para, I think it would work well.
2) Re: the lengthy detour to describe the history of UEFA footballing comps, it just to me looks bizarre and wrong. That is surely why we have things like internal refs, "See also" sections, and footnotes. An opinion from another editor is perhaps needed.
3) The article is unbalanced in terms of there being no logical reason for certain sections having greater coverage than others.
4) Re: ownership, you have undone on a number of occasions work I have done to improve the text / wording with no discussion or (usually) for very flimsy reasons. If I was in your position, I would welcome another editor wanting to take the article forward; you do seem to see this as a "solo project" and input from other editors as akin to "interference". At the same time, the enormous amount of work that you have put into the article is of course commendable. Jprw ( talk) 05:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Great, clearly a spirit of cooperation is the best way to take the article forward. At the moment I'm concerned about the extended description of the Torres signing; it seems to smack of recentism, as well as being somewhat off-topic. Re: the images, why don't we experiment with a few options before deciding on the best layout. I didn't realize about the multiple-winner badge being non-free use, sorry about that. Let's also get some input from another editor re: the extended background description of the Euro comps, it still to me looks decidedly odd. Also, isn’t it repetitious of information already included in the lead? Jprw ( talk) 14:02, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Another (slight) criticism I have is that the Ponting book is overused. Unfortunately I'm not in the UK at the moment, and so can't get to a library where I could do some spadework to rectify an issue like this. Jprw ( talk) 14:13, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Looks like a trip to the library might be called for :) Jprw ( talk) 16:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi
During the copyedit a few things came to light that may need attention:
(Paragraph 4)
Good luck with the FA :¬) Chaosdruid ( talk) 12:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
The Winter quote looks like an excellent addition to capture the historic nature of the match, yet it has been removed twice. It is difficult to understand this, especially given that less important descriptions such as The performance of Gary McAllister, whose free-kick resulted in the winning goal, was praised as "outstanding" by Trevor Brooking. seem to be allowed. Jprw ( talk) 07:19, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
There seem to be three main points that need to be addressed:
Regards, Jprw ( talk) 12:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
1) I don't think there can really be any doubt that the 2005 final, as well as being the final that earned them the right to keep the trophy, eclipses all other Euro finals that Liverpool competed in (there are numerous statements by players past and present to support this, as well as countless media references, etc.) The article must therefore in some way try to reflect this. I fully understand the point about weight, that's why I think it would be a good idea to try and find the juiciest quote by a very high-profile football commentator. 2) A clear compromise would be to state that by winning x they qualified to play in y and then leave it at that. No details of match y need to be given if it falls outside the purview of UEFA competitions. 3) I'm glad that we're making some progress on content. I have to say though that I'm having trouble understanding the rationale of other editors' wanting to include details about a match that should clearly be outside the scope of this article. I suggest a wording along the lines of "which meant that they qualified for the 2005 FIFA Club World Championship" and then editors can click on the internal ref if they want to know more. Jprw ( talk) 13:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I've uploaded a cropped image of the 2005 trophy which could be used somewhere in the article. See here Jprw ( talk) 15:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
And now have uploaded another one which perhaps is better? Jprw ( talk) 13:56, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations to those editors who took this article from scratch to Featured Article status on Wikipedia. I saw for myself how much of a Herculean effort it was, in particular on the part of NapHit. Well done – you have done yourselves, the encyclopedia, and Liverpool Football Club proud. "What we do in life echoes in eternity" (one of the LFC banners at the Istanbul 2005 final). Jprw ( talk) 12:56, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
In the intro, and elsewhere in the article, it is stated that LFC has won "the UEFA Champions League (formerly known as the European Cup)" and "the UEFA Europa League (formerly known as the UEFA Cup)". More accurate would be to state that LFC has won "the European Cup (since replaced by the UEFA Champions League)" and "the UEFA Cup (since replaced by the UEFA Europa League)". - The Gnome ( talk) 09:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
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Liverpool had a semi-final run in the 2009–10 UEFA Europa League. It's not found here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.173.243.143 ( talk) 03:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Jezhotwells ( talk) 19:18, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.
Disambiguations: found two, fixed one, Luis García, I removed the wikilink from Peter Robinson as there appears to be no article on him in Wikipedia, he is not listed at the disambiguation page. [1] Jezhotwells ( talk) 19:30, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Linkrot: None found. Jezhotwells ( talk) 19:33, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
The writer hasn't edited in a month+, might as well fail it now. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 16:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Mykleavens ( talk) 21:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC) I am planning to review this. Note that I am still fairly new to the site and this will be my first review. No comments about the article as yet. -- Mykleavens ( talk) 21:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
I've read this a couple of times now and before I even go into the specific GA criteria, I am placing the review on hold for two weeks to give editors time to address various concerns I have at present (there may well be more to come). I have several initial comments to make and I am proposing a rewrite of the lead:
I have a lot of problems with the lead which needs to be revised. Taking the current content and without introducing any additional information, I would write the lead along these lines:
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside, which has regularly taken part in European competitions since its first appearance in the 1964–65 European Cup. Qualification for English clubs is determined by the team's performance in its domestic league and cup competitions. From 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup several times by winning the former Football League First Division. Since 1992, qualification to the renamed UEFA Champions League has been via a top four placing in the Premier League. Liverpool has also achieved European qualification via the FA Cup and Football League Cup and has played in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup competitions.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for 6 seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
Liverpool has won the the European Cup five times, a British record, most recently in the 2005 UEFA Champions League Final. As a result of that victory, Liverpool won the European Champion Clubs' Cup outright and was awarded a multiple winner badge. Only Real Madrid and A.C. Milan have won the competition on more occasions. Liverpool has won the UEFA Cup (now called the Europa League) three times, a record shared with Juventus and Internazionale.
Liverpool's record win in Europe is an 11–0 victory over Strømsgodset in the 1974–75 Cup Winners' Cup; this is the club's record victory in all competitions. Jamie Carragher holds the club record for the most appearances in European competition with 136 to the end of the 2010–11 season. Steven Gerrard is Liverpool's record goalscorer in Europe with 35 to the end of the 2010–11 season.
The above are first impressions. I will continue to review in detail and will work on the GA criteria now to complete the review in due course, providing the points raised to date are addressed. -- Mykleavens ( talk) 11:18, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Over the last couple of days, I've tried to improve the wording, content and layout of the article which was nowhere near a pass for being well-written. Although some further tweaks will be needed, it is now in a much better shape (a bit like Liverpool themselves in recent months!). However, I still have concerns and am not able to pass the article yet, but I'm not going to fail it as I think it is definitely heading in the right direction. I'm continuing to keep it on hold so that more work can be done within the term of this review.
To summarise, the article remains on hold for one month pending additional information to broaden its coverage. I'll update the GA nominations page accordingly and will keep looking at the article to help where I can. -- Mykleavens ( talk) 12:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
You've done everything I've asked and I have been quite strict to try and make this not just good but better. It's been a close run thing on occasion but the article is there now. Please try to ensure it retains its current good writing as that was at first the main barrier it faced. It's a good article now so well done. And I hope to see some more Champions League content in 2012–13! -- Mykleavens ( talk) 18:46, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
"from 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup on eight occasions by winning the former Football League First Division, and qualified for the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup by winning the FA Cup and Football League Cup".
The areas in bold above need to be double checked for accuracy. [2] this seems to be an excellent online resource. Jprw ( talk) 09:14, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm thinking of changing
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside which has regularly and successfully taken part in European competitions since 1964. Qualification for English football clubs to European competitions is determined by teams' domestic league and cup performances; from 1964 to 1985, Liverpool qualified for the European Cup on eight occasions by winning the former Football League First Division, and qualified for the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup by winning the FA Cup and Football League Cup.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
to
Liverpool Football Club is an English professional football club based in Liverpool, Merseyside which has regularly and successfully taken part in European football competitions since 1964, winning a total of ten European trophies.
Liverpool's first participation in European competition was in the 1964–65 European Cup against KR Reykjavik of Iceland. Liverpool competed in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool has qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup in most seasons to date.
Any thoughts?
Jprw ( talk) 10:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes sure, apologies if I jumped the gun. I do think however that the changes I made addressed a lot of issues, mainly to do with repetition and excessive detail in the lead. The UEFA Cup photo semed to work well too. Buy you're right let's see what the reviewer says. Jprw ( talk) 12:49, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I've just noticed that the suggested lead given by the reviewer above DOES NOT correspond to what is currently in the article. I would go with installing the reviewer's, which similarly deals with a lot of the repetition problems as my rewrite, but I would cut the last sentence as it is stats that is repeated in the stats-like appendix at the end. Jprw ( talk) 13:03, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Not a lot seems to be happening at all, so I'm going to revert to my edit in the lead which seems to be at least an improvement to work from. Jprw ( talk) 09:22, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
This is what we now have (pictures of cups not shown):
Liverpool Football Club are an English professional
football club which have regularly taken part in European competitions since 1964, winning a total of ten trophies, including five
European Cups—the most successful haul of trophies of any British club.
Liverpool's first appearance in European club football was in the 1964–65 European Cup, and they went on to compete in Europe for 21 consecutive seasons, until the 1985 European Cup final, the occasion of the Heysel Stadium disaster, following which all English clubs were banned from UEFA competitions for six seasons. Since being reaccepted in 1992, Liverpool qualified for either the Champions League or the UEFA Cup nearly every season up to 2010.
Liverpool have won the the European Cup five times, a British record, most recently in the 2005 UEFA Champions League Final. As a result of that victory, Liverpool won the European Champion Clubs' Cup outright and were awarded a multiple winner badge. Only Real Madrid and A.C. Milan have won the competition on more occasions. Liverpool have also won the UEFA Cup (now called the Europa League) three times, a record in Europe which they share with Juventus and Internazionale.
I believe that in order for the rest of the article to get up to GA status, it needs to be copy edited and reworked as boldly as this—to cut out the numerous examples of language that are non-encyclopaedic; to reduce the bloated feel of much of the language; and to deal with examples of repetition.
Jprw (
talk) 09:42, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
The lead that the reviewer suggested was a massive improvement on what was there before, but it was a provisional first stab. What I and he then did was to improve it further—it still contained repetition and too much detail for the lead. The fact that the reviewer made further cuts to my reduced lead would I have thought been a tacit acknowledgement from the reviewer that the changes I made were a move in the right direction. The addition of the image of the UEFA cup was also a clear improvement (though I'm beginning to have doubts about where it should go exactly, maybe next to the description of their win in Dortmund. I'm therefore going to revert it back, putting the cups (for the time being) 100px size and both on the right Jprw ( talk) 16:27, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Thanks to you both, I agree that it's all about striking a balance now and I apologise if I went too far in my edit. I now look forward to trying to optimise the lead according to WP:LEAD, and, of course, with a view to achiving GA. I also fully agree about the issue with the images and stacking as well, I actually wasn't aware of this. Jprw ( talk) 06:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
I've just had another go at tidying up the article; see [3] [4] [5] and [6]. There still seemed to be quite a bit of non-encyclopaedic language, irrelevance, and repetition, and a couple of important bits missing. At this stage I'm worried about the following sentence:
The final, at Rome's Stadio Olimpico, was in fact an away match against A.S. Roma, and as they were playing in Roma's home ground, they had to take chances as it was unlikely Roma would not score. The tactics worked: Liverpool went ahead in the 13th minute when Phil Neal scored, but Roma equalised towards the end of the first half.
Is this source reliable? the wording/tone also seem to be questionable. Jprw ( talk) 12:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm just not 100% sure that it meets WP:RS criteria, it looks like some kind of a fansite. Also, I wonder if we can use this image somewhere. [7] Jprw ( talk) 17:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I wonder if we could contact that site to try and get them to donate WP some photos, especially of Liverpool team captains lifting a E trophy? Jprw ( talk) 08:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I shall :) Jprw ( talk) 10:32, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
I've written to the website; in the meantime, [8] this image from flickr seems to be usable. Jprw ( talk) 14:38, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
[9] [10] [11] Good idea, hopefully it will work as there are tonnes of them... Jprw ( talk) 14:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
It's complicated! Hopefully it will be possible to get a couple of images but it may take some time. Jprw ( talk) 16:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Hughes isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, which seems wrong as he lifted consecutive European cups as Liverpool captain in 1977 and 1978, and possibly the UEFA Cup in 76 as well. Jprw ( talk) 16:39, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Under new manager Joe Fagan, Liverpool reached their fourth European Cup final in 1984, after first- and second-round victories over Danish champions Odense BK and Spanish champions Athletico Madrid, respectively, a quarter-final 5-0 aggregate victory over Benfica (managed by Sven Goran Eriksson), and a highly physical 3-1 semi-final encounter against Dinamo Bucharest, which Liverpool won 3-1 on aggregate. In his 2009 autobiography Ian Rush wrote, "our games against Dinamo were the most brutal of my entire career".
This keeps getting removed and I'm not sure why. It looks like necessary background information to 1984 final, with a salient ref included. The games in the run up to the final are important and need mentioning. Jprw ( talk) 16:47, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Although on second thoughts this looks better:
and a highly physical 3-1 semi-final tie against Dinamo Bucharest, which Liverpool won 3-1 on aggregate, and which Ian Rush described as "the most brutal" games of his career. Jprw ( talk) 16:51, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
"There were no notable matches in the run up to the 1984 final"
This is simply not true. The Benfica and Bucharest games, at least, deserve a mention. Also, the games leading up to other European finals are documented in the article; hence by not including the 84 run up games the article is inconsistent. You may be right about the inadvisability of singling out the Rush quote, although both Hansen and Dalglish mention the ferocity of the tie in their bios so maybe a general description is warranted. I’m also wondering if this could be included somewhere, it looks like a great ref.
Please note that all these changes are with a view to further improving the article and I welcome the chance to discuss them. Rgds, Jprw ( talk) 06:49, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
The semi-final against Bucharest and the threats and abuse suffered and endured by Souness in the second leg ("the backs of his socks were in ribbons") are covered in detail here. Souness had broken the jaw of the Romanian player Movila in the first leg. Alan Kennedy also documents it in his book, Kennedy's Way. See here. Rgds Jprw ( talk) 16:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I have rearranged the photos of the cups to more logical places in the article. Jprw ( talk) 04:56, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
The article is going backwards: the section outlining all the competitions is lengthy and inappropriate. A see also section with the appropriate link gets round the problem perfectly; a footnote may be another solution. The image in the lead is terrible -- out of focus, not even centred. The best possible image of the trophy should be in the lead and your image relegated later on to, say, the Istanbul section until a better image of the Istanbul trophy is found. These are logical and sensible suggestions. You seem to think that you own the article and resist / immediately undo the helpful edits of other editors for taking the article forward. Jprw ( talk) 15:37, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
1) I'm trying to get permission for this image from Flicker. As a thumbnail image next to the Istanbul para, I think it would work well.
2) Re: the lengthy detour to describe the history of UEFA footballing comps, it just to me looks bizarre and wrong. That is surely why we have things like internal refs, "See also" sections, and footnotes. An opinion from another editor is perhaps needed.
3) The article is unbalanced in terms of there being no logical reason for certain sections having greater coverage than others.
4) Re: ownership, you have undone on a number of occasions work I have done to improve the text / wording with no discussion or (usually) for very flimsy reasons. If I was in your position, I would welcome another editor wanting to take the article forward; you do seem to see this as a "solo project" and input from other editors as akin to "interference". At the same time, the enormous amount of work that you have put into the article is of course commendable. Jprw ( talk) 05:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Great, clearly a spirit of cooperation is the best way to take the article forward. At the moment I'm concerned about the extended description of the Torres signing; it seems to smack of recentism, as well as being somewhat off-topic. Re: the images, why don't we experiment with a few options before deciding on the best layout. I didn't realize about the multiple-winner badge being non-free use, sorry about that. Let's also get some input from another editor re: the extended background description of the Euro comps, it still to me looks decidedly odd. Also, isn’t it repetitious of information already included in the lead? Jprw ( talk) 14:02, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Another (slight) criticism I have is that the Ponting book is overused. Unfortunately I'm not in the UK at the moment, and so can't get to a library where I could do some spadework to rectify an issue like this. Jprw ( talk) 14:13, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Looks like a trip to the library might be called for :) Jprw ( talk) 16:20, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi
During the copyedit a few things came to light that may need attention:
(Paragraph 4)
Good luck with the FA :¬) Chaosdruid ( talk) 12:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
The Winter quote looks like an excellent addition to capture the historic nature of the match, yet it has been removed twice. It is difficult to understand this, especially given that less important descriptions such as The performance of Gary McAllister, whose free-kick resulted in the winning goal, was praised as "outstanding" by Trevor Brooking. seem to be allowed. Jprw ( talk) 07:19, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
There seem to be three main points that need to be addressed:
Regards, Jprw ( talk) 12:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
1) I don't think there can really be any doubt that the 2005 final, as well as being the final that earned them the right to keep the trophy, eclipses all other Euro finals that Liverpool competed in (there are numerous statements by players past and present to support this, as well as countless media references, etc.) The article must therefore in some way try to reflect this. I fully understand the point about weight, that's why I think it would be a good idea to try and find the juiciest quote by a very high-profile football commentator. 2) A clear compromise would be to state that by winning x they qualified to play in y and then leave it at that. No details of match y need to be given if it falls outside the purview of UEFA competitions. 3) I'm glad that we're making some progress on content. I have to say though that I'm having trouble understanding the rationale of other editors' wanting to include details about a match that should clearly be outside the scope of this article. I suggest a wording along the lines of "which meant that they qualified for the 2005 FIFA Club World Championship" and then editors can click on the internal ref if they want to know more. Jprw ( talk) 13:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I've uploaded a cropped image of the 2005 trophy which could be used somewhere in the article. See here Jprw ( talk) 15:48, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
And now have uploaded another one which perhaps is better? Jprw ( talk) 13:56, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations to those editors who took this article from scratch to Featured Article status on Wikipedia. I saw for myself how much of a Herculean effort it was, in particular on the part of NapHit. Well done – you have done yourselves, the encyclopedia, and Liverpool Football Club proud. "What we do in life echoes in eternity" (one of the LFC banners at the Istanbul 2005 final). Jprw ( talk) 12:56, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
In the intro, and elsewhere in the article, it is stated that LFC has won "the UEFA Champions League (formerly known as the European Cup)" and "the UEFA Europa League (formerly known as the UEFA Cup)". More accurate would be to state that LFC has won "the European Cup (since replaced by the UEFA Champions League)" and "the UEFA Cup (since replaced by the UEFA Europa League)". - The Gnome ( talk) 09:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
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