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RS have repeatedly called it an island; per
NYT it is "a roughly 70-acre island." A
recent addition says it is "more accurately, an
islet" citing
a guidebook. "Islet" is not a technical term; it just describes any small island. For example, the uninhabited
Loggerhead Key covers 49 acres but is widely described as an "island" not an "islet." "Islet" is more typically used for very small uninhabited islands such as
Imia (9.9 acres).
HouseOfChange (
talk) 16:40, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2024
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
FBI recovered tens of thousands of instances of pedophilia recorded onto hard drives, CDs and DVDs. We watched them leave the island with the goods.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a
"change X to Y" format and provide a
reliable source if appropriate.
Rehsarb (
talk) 14:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Undiscussed move to Epstein Island
The island's name is Little Saint James. "Epstein Island" may be a common slang usage, but it seems un-encyclopedic to use a pejorative nickname for a geographical location. Before anyone moves the article again, I would like to see some discussion about it.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 14:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The move was in full accordance with wikipedia policies, but ill initiate a RM Abo Yemen✉ 14:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Requested move 2 April 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose "Epstein Island" is less, not more, common than "Little Saint James," per Google (1,350,000 results vs 1,660,000,000 results.) I oppose changing the title of this encyclopedia article about a geographical location to a vulgar recent nickname.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 15:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Google trends graph shows that both names are somewhat close to each other, and sometimes the name "Epstein Island" receives slightly more search results Abo Yemen✉ 23:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Support More search results and COMMONNAME. I only hear Epstein Island, but that's just me. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 12:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Nominator has adduced no evidence that the nickname "Epstein Island" is the COMMONNAME of the island.
Zacwill (
talk) 18:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
See Google Trends, which shows a slight preference to Epstein Isl. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 18:38, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Google Trends merely tells us what people are typing into Google. It does not tell us anything about what "independent, reliable, English-language sources" are using, and so it is not very useful when it comes to determining what the COMMONNAME is.
Zacwill (
talk) 19:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I suppose. I think Google News can show phrase prevalence but I don't want to fiddle with booleans at the moment. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 21:48, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I would however support the removal of the unnecessary disambiguator "U.S. Virgin Islands", in accordance with
WP:CONCISE.
WP:USPLACES mandates the inclusion of state and territory names when it comes to "populated places", but this does not seem to apply to islands (cf.
Martha's Vineyard and
Santa Cruz Island).
Zacwill (
talk) 19:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Another example:
Fraser Island which is officially named 'K’gari'. To note, this is not the same as anglicising a name, as 'Fraser' is not an anglicisation of ‘K’gari', it would be called Cagarry Island, or something similar if it was anglicised.
10001731848a (
talk) 11:05, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Note that (almost) all of the sources you have adduced also use the name "Little Saint James", and most of them print "Epstein Island" in quotes – signifying that it is a colloquial appellation and not the actual name of the island. Using the name for this article would be a bit like renaming the
Ireland article "Emerald Isle" or the
Islay article "Queen of the Hebrides". I don't think anyone disputes the basic fact that a place can have more than one name, so I'm not sure what the purpose of citing names like "Aquidneck" was.
Zacwill (
talk) 12:23, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I’m not disputing it’s the "actual name of the island", I’m basing my strong support on its common name, which is 'Epstein Island'. Ireland is most commonly referred to as 'Ireland', and Islay is most commonly referred to as 'Islay'. Currently, it’s closer to if the
Big Ben article was called titled 'Elizabeth Tower' (its actual name), or the
Aquidneck article being titled 'Rhode Island' (its actual name). In a lot of articles I have read about Big Ben I am often reminded that it’s "officially called “Elizabeth Tower”". I also think 'Epstein Island' is, unfortunately, more encylopedic, as I don’t believe most people will know what "Little Saint James" refers to. I personally see 'Epstein Island' way more, but I’d also strongly support Jeffrey Epstein’s island as per
Bill Gates’s house and
Osama bin Laden's house in Khartoum.
10001731848a (
talk) 13:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per
WP:COMMONNAME. Wikipedia is also
WP:NOTCENSORED and there are articles with non-official vulgar common titles, that are named after people that some would consider vulgar people:
LeConte Hall is the former name for buildings ‘Physics South’ and ‘Physics North’, named after a white supremacist.
Nixon's Florida White House is titled after the impeached president.
Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award is now known simply as 'Video Vanguard Award'.
Hitler teapot is a nickname given to ‘Michael Graves Design Bells and Whistles Stainless Steel Tea Kettle’.
Trump Force One and
Trump wall. There isn’t an Wikipedia article for every single island. This island’s notability stems only from its most well known owner, and the things that that owner did on it.
121.133.161.148 (
talk) 23:53, 10 April 2024 (UTC) —
121.133.161.148 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Strong support with speedy close. The supporters above have given policy-based reasoning like
WP:COMMONNAME, provided Google search results which list ‘Epstein Island’ as higher. Opposers who say the name is vulgar or inappropriate have been met with other articles with objectively more vulgar titles (which are not the official name) like
Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award and
Hitler teapot. Sources have also been provided showing Forbes, Newsweek, USA Today, NYPost, and The Guardian calling it ‘Epstein Island’. Opposers seem to be basing around the fact that they
WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT, lacking policy-based reasoning. Regretfully, the island is most known as 'Epstein Island'.
211.197.156.44 (
talk) 01:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC) —
211.197.156.44 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Comment: This IP geolocates very near to 124.35.100.164. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 01:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, several IPs have made no other en-wiki edits aside from their "Support" !Vote here.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 12:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
You're right, I mis-phrased things--I didn't mean to imply you were socking. Your typical editing times don't even
line up, for instance. Sorry about that! 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 16:40, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Dw it's fine, I am well aware of
WP:NOTAVOTE too. The main purpose of this RM is just to shorten the name of the article Abo Yemen✉ 17:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Per HouseOfChange and
WP:20YT. With time it's likely that the recent stories about Epstein will fade as all stories do and the coverage so far fails to reach
WP:COMMONNAME.
Nemov (
talk) 13:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I saw you mention a AGF above. Thanks for reading
WP:20YT.
Nemov (
talk) 17:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(sorry if this sounds dumb but i am not a native and my guess is that you're being sarcastic because i didn't really read anything) Abo Yemen✉ 18:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Absolutely no idea what is going on above, but oppose. This is a casual/vernacular nickname that does not quite reach common name.
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 13:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Epstein Island" is either a nickname or (as in many of the examples linked above) is being used as a 'headline shorthand' term for "Epstein's island" with the text of the story clearly indicating that it's a possessive term and/or referring to the island as Little St James, or putting the term in quotation marks.
Brunton (
talk) 16:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Bolding alternate names
The
MOS:BOLDALTNAMES guidance describes bolding for "alternate names" in the sense that "Mumbai" is an alternate name for "Bombay." Colloquial nicknames such as "Island of Sin" do not rise to this level of either prominence or equivalence, and should not be bolded in the lead.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 01:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree, which is why I removed Island of Sin from the lede entirely. Epstein Island and Pedophile Island rise above merely colloquial names. They are more popular names than "Little Saint James"
RobotGoggles (
talk) 18:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
islands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslandsWikipedia:WikiProject IslandsTemplate:WikiProject IslandsIslands articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States Territories, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Territories of the United States on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United States TerritoriesWikipedia:WikiProject United States TerritoriesTemplate:WikiProject United States TerritoriesUnited States Territories articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the
Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the
welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
RS have repeatedly called it an island; per
NYT it is "a roughly 70-acre island." A
recent addition says it is "more accurately, an
islet" citing
a guidebook. "Islet" is not a technical term; it just describes any small island. For example, the uninhabited
Loggerhead Key covers 49 acres but is widely described as an "island" not an "islet." "Islet" is more typically used for very small uninhabited islands such as
Imia (9.9 acres).
HouseOfChange (
talk) 16:40, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2024
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
FBI recovered tens of thousands of instances of pedophilia recorded onto hard drives, CDs and DVDs. We watched them leave the island with the goods.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a
"change X to Y" format and provide a
reliable source if appropriate.
Rehsarb (
talk) 14:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Undiscussed move to Epstein Island
The island's name is Little Saint James. "Epstein Island" may be a common slang usage, but it seems un-encyclopedic to use a pejorative nickname for a geographical location. Before anyone moves the article again, I would like to see some discussion about it.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 14:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The move was in full accordance with wikipedia policies, but ill initiate a RM Abo Yemen✉ 14:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Requested move 2 April 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose "Epstein Island" is less, not more, common than "Little Saint James," per Google (1,350,000 results vs 1,660,000,000 results.) I oppose changing the title of this encyclopedia article about a geographical location to a vulgar recent nickname.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 15:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Google trends graph shows that both names are somewhat close to each other, and sometimes the name "Epstein Island" receives slightly more search results Abo Yemen✉ 23:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Support More search results and COMMONNAME. I only hear Epstein Island, but that's just me. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 12:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Nominator has adduced no evidence that the nickname "Epstein Island" is the COMMONNAME of the island.
Zacwill (
talk) 18:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
See Google Trends, which shows a slight preference to Epstein Isl. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 18:38, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Google Trends merely tells us what people are typing into Google. It does not tell us anything about what "independent, reliable, English-language sources" are using, and so it is not very useful when it comes to determining what the COMMONNAME is.
Zacwill (
talk) 19:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I suppose. I think Google News can show phrase prevalence but I don't want to fiddle with booleans at the moment. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 21:48, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I would however support the removal of the unnecessary disambiguator "U.S. Virgin Islands", in accordance with
WP:CONCISE.
WP:USPLACES mandates the inclusion of state and territory names when it comes to "populated places", but this does not seem to apply to islands (cf.
Martha's Vineyard and
Santa Cruz Island).
Zacwill (
talk) 19:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Another example:
Fraser Island which is officially named 'K’gari'. To note, this is not the same as anglicising a name, as 'Fraser' is not an anglicisation of ‘K’gari', it would be called Cagarry Island, or something similar if it was anglicised.
10001731848a (
talk) 11:05, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Note that (almost) all of the sources you have adduced also use the name "Little Saint James", and most of them print "Epstein Island" in quotes – signifying that it is a colloquial appellation and not the actual name of the island. Using the name for this article would be a bit like renaming the
Ireland article "Emerald Isle" or the
Islay article "Queen of the Hebrides". I don't think anyone disputes the basic fact that a place can have more than one name, so I'm not sure what the purpose of citing names like "Aquidneck" was.
Zacwill (
talk) 12:23, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I’m not disputing it’s the "actual name of the island", I’m basing my strong support on its common name, which is 'Epstein Island'. Ireland is most commonly referred to as 'Ireland', and Islay is most commonly referred to as 'Islay'. Currently, it’s closer to if the
Big Ben article was called titled 'Elizabeth Tower' (its actual name), or the
Aquidneck article being titled 'Rhode Island' (its actual name). In a lot of articles I have read about Big Ben I am often reminded that it’s "officially called “Elizabeth Tower”". I also think 'Epstein Island' is, unfortunately, more encylopedic, as I don’t believe most people will know what "Little Saint James" refers to. I personally see 'Epstein Island' way more, but I’d also strongly support Jeffrey Epstein’s island as per
Bill Gates’s house and
Osama bin Laden's house in Khartoum.
10001731848a (
talk) 13:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per
WP:COMMONNAME. Wikipedia is also
WP:NOTCENSORED and there are articles with non-official vulgar common titles, that are named after people that some would consider vulgar people:
LeConte Hall is the former name for buildings ‘Physics South’ and ‘Physics North’, named after a white supremacist.
Nixon's Florida White House is titled after the impeached president.
Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award is now known simply as 'Video Vanguard Award'.
Hitler teapot is a nickname given to ‘Michael Graves Design Bells and Whistles Stainless Steel Tea Kettle’.
Trump Force One and
Trump wall. There isn’t an Wikipedia article for every single island. This island’s notability stems only from its most well known owner, and the things that that owner did on it.
121.133.161.148 (
talk) 23:53, 10 April 2024 (UTC) —
121.133.161.148 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Strong support with speedy close. The supporters above have given policy-based reasoning like
WP:COMMONNAME, provided Google search results which list ‘Epstein Island’ as higher. Opposers who say the name is vulgar or inappropriate have been met with other articles with objectively more vulgar titles (which are not the official name) like
Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award and
Hitler teapot. Sources have also been provided showing Forbes, Newsweek, USA Today, NYPost, and The Guardian calling it ‘Epstein Island’. Opposers seem to be basing around the fact that they
WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT, lacking policy-based reasoning. Regretfully, the island is most known as 'Epstein Island'.
211.197.156.44 (
talk) 01:15, 11 April 2024 (UTC) —
211.197.156.44 (
talk) has made
few or no other edits outside this topic. reply
Comment: This IP geolocates very near to 124.35.100.164. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 01:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes, several IPs have made no other en-wiki edits aside from their "Support" !Vote here.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 12:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
You're right, I mis-phrased things--I didn't mean to imply you were socking. Your typical editing times don't even
line up, for instance. Sorry about that! 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 16:40, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Dw it's fine, I am well aware of
WP:NOTAVOTE too. The main purpose of this RM is just to shorten the name of the article Abo Yemen✉ 17:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose - Per HouseOfChange and
WP:20YT. With time it's likely that the recent stories about Epstein will fade as all stories do and the coverage so far fails to reach
WP:COMMONNAME.
Nemov (
talk) 13:24, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I saw you mention a AGF above. Thanks for reading
WP:20YT.
Nemov (
talk) 17:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
(sorry if this sounds dumb but i am not a native and my guess is that you're being sarcastic because i didn't really read anything) Abo Yemen✉ 18:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Absolutely no idea what is going on above, but oppose. This is a casual/vernacular nickname that does not quite reach common name.
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 13:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Epstein Island" is either a nickname or (as in many of the examples linked above) is being used as a 'headline shorthand' term for "Epstein's island" with the text of the story clearly indicating that it's a possessive term and/or referring to the island as Little St James, or putting the term in quotation marks.
Brunton (
talk) 16:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Bolding alternate names
The
MOS:BOLDALTNAMES guidance describes bolding for "alternate names" in the sense that "Mumbai" is an alternate name for "Bombay." Colloquial nicknames such as "Island of Sin" do not rise to this level of either prominence or equivalence, and should not be bolded in the lead.
HouseOfChange (
talk) 01:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree, which is why I removed Island of Sin from the lede entirely. Epstein Island and Pedophile Island rise above merely colloquial names. They are more popular names than "Little Saint James"
RobotGoggles (
talk) 18:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply