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I don't now. But there are some burning questions do you want to expand on the template in guberniya. After all sooner or later we will have to write articles for the 100+ guberniyas that made up the Russian Empire. Also should we create a namestnichestvo article? --
Kuban Cossack 18:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)reply
It should come as no surprise to you that I have a dedicated guberniya infobox on my to-do list :)
Untifler created one a while ago (see {{Infobox Russian governorate}}; used in
Kazan Governorate), but I wouldn't deploy it as-is just yet, because it was mostly a copy-paste of {{Infobox Russian federal subject}} with a few modifications. If you have any suggestions about improving it, I'll gladly add them to the list of features to implement. As usual, however, I am not making any guarantees as to when I'll actually get to coding this infobox (I hate to make promises which I might not be able to keep).
As for the article about namestnichesvo, we should definitely have something but I am still not entirely sure what the title of the article should be. I've seen "vice-royalty" used in some sources, but it does not seem to be very common in academic works; and straight "namestnichestvo" seems like an awful clumsy name (which is not terribly common either). Many sources seem to just use terms "governorate" and "namestnichestvo" interchangeably, which is not always a good practice, but it shows that we are not the only ones having trouble with terminology :) Might as well use "vice-royalty" if nothing better occurs to us; it is at least an English word.
Finally, do you have any objections to the title "Little Russia Governorate"? I am not 100% sure myself, but I don't really have any compelling reasons why this would not be a good title. Cheers,—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); 19:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm reverting the page move. I'm not sure which title is better, but "Little Russia Governorate" produces zero hits in Google. --
Greggerr (
talk) 22:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, Google hits. But there is a policy
WP:ENGLISH, and also
Little Russia article. hence, IMHO, English may be better in this case.--
Lokyz (
talk) 06:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
This article describes a particular administrative unit of Russian Empire. It's not the same as what is described in Little Russia. Lack of Google hits indicates that the term "Little Russia Governorate" has no usage in English. --
Greggerr (
talk) 17:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Well in that case would it make sense to move articles such as
Vistulan Country to
Visla Kray, also would
Volhynian Governorate -> Volyn Governorate and the like also not be appropriate? Google is irrelvant here (considering its but an admin unit that existed for less that six years two centuries ago...) since we are talking about principle not Google (otherwise a number of moves such as Kharkiv -> Kharkov would be appropriate) --
Kuban Cossack 19:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Speaking of which about all the titles
here should they not be moved to their Russian equivalent? After all the same logic can be applied in reverse to articles such as
Lwów Voivodeship becoming a Lviv Voivodeship...just some ideas for thought. --
Kuban Cossack 19:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The Encyclopedia of Ukraine uses terms: Little Russia gubernia, Chernihiv gubernia, Chernihiv voivodeship. Are you advocating for the usage of these terms, or only for a particular part which you like? --
Greggerr (
talk) 23:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
"Guberni(y)a" and "governorate" mean the same thing. So do "Malorossiya" and "Little Russia". The latter terms, however, are English, and the former are not. Seeing how no combination of these terms has an established English usage (apart from a few instances here and there, which do not affect the big picture much), I'd say we should stick with
WP:UE and use the terms "governorate" and "Little Russia". Hence, "Little Russia Governorate", not "Malorossiya Guberniya", not "Little Russia Guberniya", and not "Malorossiya Governorate". It's more of a matter of consistency, standardization, and style, which are all good things to fall back to when no common usage patterns exist.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); 14:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Precedents for articles on discontinuous subdivisions include
Novorossiya Governorate (1764–1783 and 1796–1802). —MichaelZ. 15:35, 22 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Also treated in a single article are the following:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a
WikiProject dedicated to coverage of
Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
project page, or contribute to the
project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please
join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
I don't now. But there are some burning questions do you want to expand on the template in guberniya. After all sooner or later we will have to write articles for the 100+ guberniyas that made up the Russian Empire. Also should we create a namestnichestvo article? --
Kuban Cossack 18:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)reply
It should come as no surprise to you that I have a dedicated guberniya infobox on my to-do list :)
Untifler created one a while ago (see {{Infobox Russian governorate}}; used in
Kazan Governorate), but I wouldn't deploy it as-is just yet, because it was mostly a copy-paste of {{Infobox Russian federal subject}} with a few modifications. If you have any suggestions about improving it, I'll gladly add them to the list of features to implement. As usual, however, I am not making any guarantees as to when I'll actually get to coding this infobox (I hate to make promises which I might not be able to keep).
As for the article about namestnichesvo, we should definitely have something but I am still not entirely sure what the title of the article should be. I've seen "vice-royalty" used in some sources, but it does not seem to be very common in academic works; and straight "namestnichestvo" seems like an awful clumsy name (which is not terribly common either). Many sources seem to just use terms "governorate" and "namestnichestvo" interchangeably, which is not always a good practice, but it shows that we are not the only ones having trouble with terminology :) Might as well use "vice-royalty" if nothing better occurs to us; it is at least an English word.
Finally, do you have any objections to the title "Little Russia Governorate"? I am not 100% sure myself, but I don't really have any compelling reasons why this would not be a good title. Cheers,—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); 19:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)reply
I'm reverting the page move. I'm not sure which title is better, but "Little Russia Governorate" produces zero hits in Google. --
Greggerr (
talk) 22:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, Google hits. But there is a policy
WP:ENGLISH, and also
Little Russia article. hence, IMHO, English may be better in this case.--
Lokyz (
talk) 06:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
This article describes a particular administrative unit of Russian Empire. It's not the same as what is described in Little Russia. Lack of Google hits indicates that the term "Little Russia Governorate" has no usage in English. --
Greggerr (
talk) 17:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Well in that case would it make sense to move articles such as
Vistulan Country to
Visla Kray, also would
Volhynian Governorate -> Volyn Governorate and the like also not be appropriate? Google is irrelvant here (considering its but an admin unit that existed for less that six years two centuries ago...) since we are talking about principle not Google (otherwise a number of moves such as Kharkiv -> Kharkov would be appropriate) --
Kuban Cossack 19:33, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Speaking of which about all the titles
here should they not be moved to their Russian equivalent? After all the same logic can be applied in reverse to articles such as
Lwów Voivodeship becoming a Lviv Voivodeship...just some ideas for thought. --
Kuban Cossack 19:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)reply
The Encyclopedia of Ukraine uses terms: Little Russia gubernia, Chernihiv gubernia, Chernihiv voivodeship. Are you advocating for the usage of these terms, or only for a particular part which you like? --
Greggerr (
talk) 23:11, 28 April 2008 (UTC)reply
"Guberni(y)a" and "governorate" mean the same thing. So do "Malorossiya" and "Little Russia". The latter terms, however, are English, and the former are not. Seeing how no combination of these terms has an established English usage (apart from a few instances here and there, which do not affect the big picture much), I'd say we should stick with
WP:UE and use the terms "governorate" and "Little Russia". Hence, "Little Russia Governorate", not "Malorossiya Guberniya", not "Little Russia Guberniya", and not "Malorossiya Governorate". It's more of a matter of consistency, standardization, and style, which are all good things to fall back to when no common usage patterns exist.—
Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (
yo?); 14:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)reply
Precedents for articles on discontinuous subdivisions include
Novorossiya Governorate (1764–1783 and 1796–1802). —MichaelZ. 15:35, 22 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Also treated in a single article are the following: