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The claim that this rhyme is about a real person named Horner--presented here as fact--strikes me as something that very much needs a cite from a reputable source. It has the air of a not-so-very-old urban legend, like the (false) claim that Ring Around the Rosie is about the Black Death.
The many joke versions of the poem need citation too--without some indication that these parodies are notable, they should just go. Nareek 05:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is a website giving the "real person" theory:
Beware, there is a horrible pop-up on that page. Ogg 19:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Have added a reference to Jacob Horner, the protagonist of John Barth's second book, The End of the Road. -- Teetotaler
little jack horner sat in the corner eating a christmas pie he stuck in his phumb and pulled out a plumb and said what a good boy am i —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.17.35 ( talk) 20:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I repeat Nareek's remark above: The many joke versions of the poem need citation too--without some indication that these parodies are notable, they should just go.
Mere allusion, whether by writers of reputation or Tin-Pan-Alley lyricists, do not extend our knowledge of the rhyme or demonstrate a new creative use and have no place in an encyclopaedia. Since they do not meet the WP:IINFO guidelines on indiscriminate collection of information, they have been purged from this article and further repetitions will be deleted too. The reference to Lord Byron's allusion may be taken to cover every unnoteworthy use since then. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 10:32, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
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This article doesn't say anything about how a boy pulling out a plum from his Christmas pie equates to opportunism. I know there is a metaphor of the "plum assignment," but that doesn't appear here. 67.208.31.164 ( talk) 17:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Blockhaj is trying to force through an "In popular culture" subsection in ways that transgress all kinds of editorial guidance:
Blockhaj has been editing on WP since 2018 and really should be acquainted with editorial guidelines by now. Sweetpool50 ( talk) 21:50, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
It seems that the new section has attracted more disruptive edits than the article has ever known. In order to miminimise this, I'd like to propose a rewrite to Binksternet and FishandChipper which focuses mainly on character change rather than details of the film itself. To begin with, Horner's appearance in the film clearly belongs in the "Alternative histories" section of the article as a later derivative of the nursery rhyme character. There it might read, with appropriate sourcing, as a separate paragraph that sets Horner's appearance in a new context: "In 2022, an adult version of the character appears as a major antagonist in the Universal Pictures/ DreamWorks Animation movie Puss in Boots: The Last Wish.<ref 34> In this he has grown up to be the evil owner of his own pie-selling business and calls himself "Big" Jack Horner, in full reaction to his childhood reputation in the nursery rhyme.<ref 35> The link to the film provides all the other details an interested reader might require without straying into WP:UNDUE emphasis. Would this be an acceptable solution? Sweetpool50 ( talk) 11:28, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Block evasion by Special:Contributions/94.36.0.0/18 using other Italian IPs. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why my edit on the article has been reverted and the article has been even protected? There was no disruptive vandalism, just a case of a user confusing one for another, people who come to edit an article for the first time cannot be considered disruptive vandals. Jack Horner is the main antagonist, not a major antagonist in Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. 151.36.154.191 ( talk) 12:07, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
I think I and other people knew and know that, that's why we specifically edited the section focused on the character in Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. Plus, there's no need of any sources to specify the role of the character in said film. 151.82.103.230 ( talk) 15:18, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Just to say that a character is the main antagonist or protagonist of any story even when it's obvious that they are? I'm pretty sure a lot of articles on Wikipedia don't have it and never required that. Plus, yours is a very serious accusation, none of my automatic IP addresses have any past edits on Ken Akamatsu, never did any, and we're not all the same, this seems an attempt to stop me from continuing the discussion and seems almost a threat. Plus, am I really the main reason the article got blocked down? I edited it only two times and a lot of users came before me, and I simply agreed with the previos descriptions, how can you say I'm the main reason? If you really wanted people not to use those words for not being encyclopedic, you should have left it written in the post-edit/revert explanation, so people would understand and would not repeat the same mistake. 151.68.127.23 ( talk) 18:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
|
I agree with 151.58.127.23 ( talk), this page being protected was unfair and even if this article was mainly about the nursery rhyme and not the film version, it did have have a section of the film version on it and Jack Horner is in fact the main antagonist of the film Puss in Boots: The Last Wish and also the film did portray him as being megalomaniacal, ruthless, sadistic, and narcissistic, and if you don't believe me go watch the movie. Us IP addresses are not a threat to Wikipedia at all, we just wanted to improve the article. 95.151.194.14 ( talk) 11:01, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Dear MichaelMaggs ( talk),
Why should film details go in " Puss in Boots: The Last Wish" when there is literally a section of Jack Horner's film version on this article. Here's the section if you can't find it, Little Jack Horner#Adaptation. 95.151.195.14 ( talk) 14:07, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
A previous editor discovered a reference to Jack Horner in a 1694 advertisment for "Wood Cuts...New and Old Songs...Children's Play Books". Using just the bare name, as it now stands, would be WP:Original research. However, it's a fruitful item to follow up, since the WP article only carries mention of the rhyme as far back as 1725. If such an item, published by S. Gamidge at the end of the 17th century, could be traced and examined, it might shed further light on the character. Sweetpool50 ( talk) 07:43, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
As opposed to the ridiculous edit wars above, I want to advocate for an expanded section on the film due to how well the film coincides with some of the more complex themes of the original rhyme. This is sourced, verifiable information - purists need to get over the fact that the film is absolutely relevant to the entire mythos of this rhyme.
Imagine not including a section on the Downey Jr's Iron Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe on the official Iron Man page. 2603:300C:1305:F800:7884:C125:4C3D:CC72 ( talk) 19:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The claim that this rhyme is about a real person named Horner--presented here as fact--strikes me as something that very much needs a cite from a reputable source. It has the air of a not-so-very-old urban legend, like the (false) claim that Ring Around the Rosie is about the Black Death.
The many joke versions of the poem need citation too--without some indication that these parodies are notable, they should just go. Nareek 05:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is a website giving the "real person" theory:
Beware, there is a horrible pop-up on that page. Ogg 19:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Have added a reference to Jacob Horner, the protagonist of John Barth's second book, The End of the Road. -- Teetotaler
little jack horner sat in the corner eating a christmas pie he stuck in his phumb and pulled out a plumb and said what a good boy am i —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.17.35 ( talk) 20:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
I repeat Nareek's remark above: The many joke versions of the poem need citation too--without some indication that these parodies are notable, they should just go.
Mere allusion, whether by writers of reputation or Tin-Pan-Alley lyricists, do not extend our knowledge of the rhyme or demonstrate a new creative use and have no place in an encyclopaedia. Since they do not meet the WP:IINFO guidelines on indiscriminate collection of information, they have been purged from this article and further repetitions will be deleted too. The reference to Lord Byron's allusion may be taken to cover every unnoteworthy use since then. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 10:32, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Little Jack Horner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:31, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
This article doesn't say anything about how a boy pulling out a plum from his Christmas pie equates to opportunism. I know there is a metaphor of the "plum assignment," but that doesn't appear here. 67.208.31.164 ( talk) 17:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Blockhaj is trying to force through an "In popular culture" subsection in ways that transgress all kinds of editorial guidance:
Blockhaj has been editing on WP since 2018 and really should be acquainted with editorial guidelines by now. Sweetpool50 ( talk) 21:50, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
It seems that the new section has attracted more disruptive edits than the article has ever known. In order to miminimise this, I'd like to propose a rewrite to Binksternet and FishandChipper which focuses mainly on character change rather than details of the film itself. To begin with, Horner's appearance in the film clearly belongs in the "Alternative histories" section of the article as a later derivative of the nursery rhyme character. There it might read, with appropriate sourcing, as a separate paragraph that sets Horner's appearance in a new context: "In 2022, an adult version of the character appears as a major antagonist in the Universal Pictures/ DreamWorks Animation movie Puss in Boots: The Last Wish.<ref 34> In this he has grown up to be the evil owner of his own pie-selling business and calls himself "Big" Jack Horner, in full reaction to his childhood reputation in the nursery rhyme.<ref 35> The link to the film provides all the other details an interested reader might require without straying into WP:UNDUE emphasis. Would this be an acceptable solution? Sweetpool50 ( talk) 11:28, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Block evasion by Special:Contributions/94.36.0.0/18 using other Italian IPs. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why my edit on the article has been reverted and the article has been even protected? There was no disruptive vandalism, just a case of a user confusing one for another, people who come to edit an article for the first time cannot be considered disruptive vandals. Jack Horner is the main antagonist, not a major antagonist in Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. 151.36.154.191 ( talk) 12:07, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
I think I and other people knew and know that, that's why we specifically edited the section focused on the character in Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. Plus, there's no need of any sources to specify the role of the character in said film. 151.82.103.230 ( talk) 15:18, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Just to say that a character is the main antagonist or protagonist of any story even when it's obvious that they are? I'm pretty sure a lot of articles on Wikipedia don't have it and never required that. Plus, yours is a very serious accusation, none of my automatic IP addresses have any past edits on Ken Akamatsu, never did any, and we're not all the same, this seems an attempt to stop me from continuing the discussion and seems almost a threat. Plus, am I really the main reason the article got blocked down? I edited it only two times and a lot of users came before me, and I simply agreed with the previos descriptions, how can you say I'm the main reason? If you really wanted people not to use those words for not being encyclopedic, you should have left it written in the post-edit/revert explanation, so people would understand and would not repeat the same mistake. 151.68.127.23 ( talk) 18:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
|
I agree with 151.58.127.23 ( talk), this page being protected was unfair and even if this article was mainly about the nursery rhyme and not the film version, it did have have a section of the film version on it and Jack Horner is in fact the main antagonist of the film Puss in Boots: The Last Wish and also the film did portray him as being megalomaniacal, ruthless, sadistic, and narcissistic, and if you don't believe me go watch the movie. Us IP addresses are not a threat to Wikipedia at all, we just wanted to improve the article. 95.151.194.14 ( talk) 11:01, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Dear MichaelMaggs ( talk),
Why should film details go in " Puss in Boots: The Last Wish" when there is literally a section of Jack Horner's film version on this article. Here's the section if you can't find it, Little Jack Horner#Adaptation. 95.151.195.14 ( talk) 14:07, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
A previous editor discovered a reference to Jack Horner in a 1694 advertisment for "Wood Cuts...New and Old Songs...Children's Play Books". Using just the bare name, as it now stands, would be WP:Original research. However, it's a fruitful item to follow up, since the WP article only carries mention of the rhyme as far back as 1725. If such an item, published by S. Gamidge at the end of the 17th century, could be traced and examined, it might shed further light on the character. Sweetpool50 ( talk) 07:43, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
As opposed to the ridiculous edit wars above, I want to advocate for an expanded section on the film due to how well the film coincides with some of the more complex themes of the original rhyme. This is sourced, verifiable information - purists need to get over the fact that the film is absolutely relevant to the entire mythos of this rhyme.
Imagine not including a section on the Downey Jr's Iron Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe on the official Iron Man page. 2603:300C:1305:F800:7884:C125:4C3D:CC72 ( talk) 19:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)