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What we should do with International rankings part? Leave it as it is or reduce it's size? M.K. ( talk) 07:31, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
The soundfile actually gives the usual American pronunciation (/lɪθuːˈeɪniə/, "lithooaynia," not the otherwise more usual /ˌlɪθjuːˈeɪniə/ ("lithyooaynia")). Kostaki mou ( talk) 03:08, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
It is rife with English punctuation mistakes/omissions, factual errors, and it reads like a promotional brochure. If someone knows anything about this country, please clean up this page.
Thanks 174.20.59.23 ( talk) 05:48, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Agreed - this page reads like Goebbels' propaganda - wishful thinking replaces facts that are judged as unfit to the "editors" delusional vision of history of lands only very recently under Lithuanian occupation (e.g. Wilna region) ond only by implicit permission of the previous occupants - Russians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.28.113.137 ( talk) 20:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
List seasonal averages, not just the recorded extremes. Are you trying to scare people?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.5.109.34 ( talk) 02:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Did Lithuania really lost 400 000 people in last 10 years? Its more than 10%, is this due to migration, low birth rates or different methodology of Census? Seems too much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.149.169 ( talk) 16:48, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
I think this phrase in the source explains the problem: "Tai sudaro apie 94 procentus pagal Gyventojų registro duomenis ir Statistikos departamento metodiką įvertinto Lietuvos gyventojų skaičiaus, kuris kovo 1 d. sudarė 3234,9 tūkst." Roughly it seems to say that the 3.054 million figure is 94% of the total in another department which uses a different methodology to arrive at a 3.234 million figure. I believe we'd be better going with the 3.234 million figure as it sounds more realistic compared to the 2001 figures. Valenciano ( talk) 18:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
At the moment it says "...the official language, Lithuanian, is only related to the other Baltic language, Latvian." Firstly Lithuanian is an Indo-European language so it's related to English and every other language in that family, and secondly that sentence implies Latvian is the only other Baltic language, forgetting Estonian. Fugyoo ( talk) 21:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
two users 2.225.32.218 and possible sock RammyJuice should explain the content-blanking they keep doing. example. Cramyourspam ( talk) 02:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Many Poles live around Vilnius, so the statement misinforms. Xx236 ( talk) 14:16, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I've been surfing Wiki extensively since it was founded, long before IE offered Compatibility View. To date, in the many thousands of pages I've been to, this is the first time Compatibility View jumped into action the very nanosecond an article began loading in my browser. In fact, it has never jumped into action ever before here on wiki. Compatibility View isn't enough it seems, as after a short while of being locked up, I got hit with a confirmation dialog box telling me a script on this page is causing IE to run slowly, do I want to stop running the script or continue?
Reloaded the page, same thing. Visited several other similar pages, no problem. Came back here...still locking up. I had a quick look but can't spot the problem. Thought it might be the anthem, removed the template, previewed the change but the problem persisted so I left it alone. Just thought someone might like to know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.106.21.172 ( talk) 01:19, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
"Lithuania became the first Soviet republic to declare the restoration of independent State of Lithuania" is mis-worded. Lithuania is likely the ONLY Soviet republic to declare itself the "State of Lithuania". Other Soviet republics declared independence later but each declared itself by a different name. How best to re-word this? (I was math, not English, major; I can see the problem but can't find a good solution.) 198.144.192.45 ( talk) 11:40, 25 July 2013 (UTC) Twitter.Com/CalRobert (Robert Maas)
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol Lithuania was part of the German sphere of influence. Hence the soviet occupation of Lithuania was a violation of that agreement. -- 41.151.103.64 ( talk) 04:59, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
July 6, 1253 is currently mentioned in at least three places in the article as the date on which Mindaugas was crowned / Lithuania was established as a state. No qualifiers or notes are included with the date to reflect that the date is by no means certain and is challenged by other experts on Lithuanian history. In fact, the reference used for the date is an article criticising the validity of this very date, which is a bit ridiculous. If there are no objections, my suggestion is to leave July 6, 1253 in the infobox but add a note briefly explaining ambiguity. Other instances in text should be changed to just 1253 which is something that everyone more or less agrees on. No longer a penguin ( talk) 13:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
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please change ((Lithuanian)) to Lithuanian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4304:E6B0:218:8BFF:FE74:FE4F ( talk • contribs)
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In the section "History", subsection "20th and 21st centuries", 7th paragraph I seem to be unable to verify the statement: "A peace treaty signed between Lithuania and Poland on 7 October 1920, in Suwałki, recognized Vilnius as the capital of Lithuania". Neither the provided source ( http://vilnews.com/2012-02-11551) along with its 4 main hyperlinks, nor the relevant Wikipedia page ( /info/en/?search=Suwa%C5%82ki_Agreement), nor the original document ( Suwałki Agreement) support said statement. I would thus like to propose first and foremost the removal of said sentence, and secondly the addition of a more comprehensive description of the Polish-Lithuanian war in general. It is absent while being an important event, as even the same paragraph states that "Notwithstanding, Vilnius remained to be part of Poland becoming the cornerstone of Lithuania’s foreign policy.". GLowMat ( talk) 01:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
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Pls, edit Lithuania's geographical location form "northen-eastern europe" to "northen europe" as the other two baltic countries are. 91.198.17.200 ( talk) 15:34, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
To ensure that people using slow connections, old equipment, or mobile devices can still access the article (among other reasons), our guideline Wikipedia:Article size calls for articles to be no more than circa 10,000 words and 30 kB to 50 kB of readable prose. Once articles are over this limit, they are typically split and sub-articles created: see WP:SUBARTICLE. Lithuania is 13,236 words, with 84 kB readable prose. Re-adding content from sub-articles into the main article is a bad idea, as it's already too big even without these additions. — Diannaa 🍁 ( talk) 19:13, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Why are event and date 14 not visible in the article? They are in the sourcecode/sourcetext, but do not appear in the article.
| established_event13 =
Admitted to
NATO
| established_date13 = 29 March 2004
| established_event14 = Joined the European Union
| established_date14 = 1 May 2004
Detektyw z Wilna (
talk)
18:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
@ Pofka: You removed cleanup tags ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Lithuania&oldid=833064602) explaining that the article is shorter than e.g. article on US. Cleanup is not about length, but importance. Article on Lithuania is full of petty details, which cannot be said about USA. History in the article on Lithuania should contain historic events that are somehow relevant today. The rest should be moved to History of Lithuania. Here are some of many examples of the petty details with explanation in the brackets.
1) On 22 September 1236, the Battle of Saulė between Samogitians and the Livonian Brothers of the Sword took place close to Šiauliai. The Livonian Brothers were smashed during it and their further conquest of the Balts lands were stopped. The battle inspired rebellions among the Curonians, Semigallians, Selonians, Oeselians, tribes previously conquered by the Sword-Brothers. Some thirty years' worth of conquests on the left bank of Daugava were lost.[33] In 2000, the Lithuanian and Latvian parliaments declared 22 September to be the Day of Baltic Unity. (Battle of Saule is tiny and not even its exact location is known. Losing small territory on the left bank of a river 1000 years ago is hardly relevant today. Besides, Day of Baltic Unity is not celebrated and not even printed in most calendars. There are days for everything, from Vitamin C Day to Lemon Chiffon Cake Day)
2) A new constitution adopted in 1928, which consolidated presidential powers. Gradually the opposition parties were banned, the censorship was tightened, and the rights of national minorities were narrowed. (stricter censorship 100 years ago is hardly relevant for modern day Lithuania. It very well should belong on History of Lithuania, but it's a petty detail for article on Lithuania)
3) In 1935, farmers began strikes in Suvalkija and Dzūkija. In addition to economic ones, political demands were made. (Again, petty detail. USA has had 100s of strikes since 1900 ( List of strikes but you won't find them on the article about USA))
4) The next step made by the USSR was accusations of the abduction of the Red Army soldiers in Lithuania. Although the Lithuanian government denied such allegations, the tensions became heightened on both sides.[91] On 14 June 1940, the USSR issued an ultimatum to Lithuania, demanding to replace the government and allow Red Army's units to enter the territory of Lithuania without any prior agreements, which would mean the occupation of the country.[92] On 14 June 1940 just before midnight, the last meeting of the Lithuanian Government was held in the Presidential Palace, in Kaunas. During it, the Soviet's ultimatum was debated.[93] President Antanas Smetona categorically declined to accept most of the ultimatum demands, argued for military resistance and was supported by Kazys Musteikis, Konstantinas Šakenis (lt), Kazimieras Jokantas (lt), however the Commander of the Armed Forces Vincas Vitkauskas, Divisional general Stasys Raštikis, Kazys Bizauskas, Antanas Merkys and most of the Lithuanian Government members decided that it would be impossible, especially due to the previously stationed Soviet soldiers, and accepted the ultimatum.[94] On that night, the Soviet forces executed Lithuanian border guard Aleksandras Barauskas (lt) near the Belarus border.[95] ... (Again, way too detailed and irrelevant. Otherwise, we could copy-paste a lot of details of every battle, conflict and event and make this article 20x longer. Or better not...)
Gradually, the economic relations had been restored. But the tension had peaked again in January 1991. At that time, attempts were made to carry out a coup using the Soviet Armed Forces, the Internal Army of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the USSR Committee for State Security (KGB). Because of the bad economic situation in Lithuania, the forces in Moscow thought the coup d’état will receive a strong public support. But the situation was the opposite. (way too detailed for an article on a completely different topic) Detektyw z Wilna ( talk) 13:58, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for a nice chapter about mythology. :) I just think we should prefer more genuine manifestations of pagan believe - Raganų kalnas and Morė are examples of degradation of former religion into village customs or tales. - my 2cnt. -- Ke an ( talk) 19:08, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
I think reader should be warned about the low quality of this chapter. 95 percent of it devoted for Crime and Corruption. Few percent are for history. And 1-2 sentences about legal system. So far I think it is the worst chapter, Science and Technology - second :) I would suggest to put Law under Politics as it is in Germany, France, Estonia, Latvia and others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ke an ( talk • contribs) 20:13, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
I have noticed quite many statements are supported by contextual statements in the source or statements lacking direct source support are being used - especially those with Delfi sources. The fact, that many sources are taken from Lithuanian media doubles the problem, since foreign reader cannot verify the source. I also think Delfi source should be taken with the grain of salt, since during past 5 years it was introducing many Clickbait articles. You can find almost any indirect support of your statement if your will search through it. Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources -- Ke an ( talk) 15:14, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
@ Ke an, Detektyw z Wilna, and Pofka: I advise all of you to stop these edit wars and discuss the matters on the talk page per WP:BRD. Otherwise you all will be reported for edit warring. One more thing – do not discuss the matters in Lithuanian anywhere in English Wikipedia (article's or users' talk pages). – Sabbatino ( talk) 18:22, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Detektyw z Wilna ( talk) 08:32, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
The more good content there is under Science & Technology the better. But how exactly is mentioning random companies and people without widespread prominence following the notability guidelines? SørenKierkegaard ( talk) 08:43, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Just some thoughts about the galleries:
-- Ke an ( talk) 14:04, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
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195.135.213.170 ( talk) 13:46, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
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Lithuania does more crime and drinking than Russia. Blackkitty5060 ( talk) 12:58, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
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There's a grammatical error in Health section, 2nd paragraph. Main article: Health in Lithuania
This line: According to experts, this number was largely influenced by the Soviets authority because mostly Christian country's inhabitants previously considered it as a severe sin and were afraid to took their lives.
Should instead be this: According to experts, this number was largely influenced by the Soviets' authority because mostly Christian country's inhabitants previously considered it as a severe sin and were afraid to take their lives. IronMaggie ( talk) 20:27, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
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"the" needs deleting from in front of "Nazi Germany" when referring to the June 22, 1941 invasion by them. Numbed ( talk) 17:47, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
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some errors in style such as "Lithuania, after breaking the Soviet Union had difficult crime situation" need adressing. Dawbeachjack ( talk) 23:00, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
The above problem has been taken care of and the sentence is relatively good-style now, but to further improve it, I suggest writing: "During the first years after Lithuania’s breaking away from the USSR, the crime situation was problematic, but it has improved since then, making Lithuania a reasonably safe country now."
For reference the version I see now: "Lithuania, after breaking away from the Soviet Union had a difficult crime situation, however the Lithuanian law enforcement agencies eliminated many criminals over the years, making Lithuania a reasonably safe country."-- Geke ( talk) 08:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Now Etymology of Lithuania takes too much space in my opinion. There are many very hypothetical facts with little scientific value. I think this paragraph is way too big for a country page. I would suggest to leave the most credible hypothesis of the name Lithuania only. Ke an ( talk) 09:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
Another issue with the etymology: The last sentence is unclear/bad English: "Term leiši (plural of leitis), as a synonym to the Lithuanians ethnonym (beside the newer lietuvietis), to this day maintained Latvians who are speaking with a very closely related Latvian language."
Can anyone understand this and rephrase it? Or say it in a different language, so I/we have a chance to translate it ourselves? -- Geke ( talk) 08:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Under the section "Health", there is the following sentence:
"According to experts, this number was largely influenced by the Soviets' authority because mostly Christian country's inhabitants previously considered it as a severe sin and were afraid to took their lives."
"to took" is grammatically incorrect, the appropriate wording is "to take". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.123.98.253 ( talk) 18:50, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
I think that the article improved significantly to compare just how it was 1 year before. Could we define the areas which still need more attention? Maybe it will reach GA one day. :) - Ke an ( talk) 05:58, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Ok, let's clarify latest edits. You want to delete photo about Kaunas pogrom and keep photo of former Lithuanian Army Commander Stasys Raštikis, who allegedly tried to unsuccessfully protect Jews. You claim that action of Raštikis is "MUCH MORE" (using your words and caps) important than Kaunas mass murders. Reason you seem to give is that "Jews also participated by brutally torturing and executing Lithuanian intellectuals in the forest. Both sides had monsters..." and pogrom was ordered by Germany and carried out by drunk persons(?).
The photo of Kaunas pogrom is considered a montage by expert photograpers - it has quite many unanswered questions to this day. [1]
You cite EB and say "short overview of Lithuanian history mentions killing of Jews, but nothing about attempts to protect them". I would like to mention, that EB says nothing about participation of Lithuanians in both actions. Should we correct Wikiepdia article accordingly?
Regarding the photo of the colombarium and it's wording - nothing wrong with it. During the Nazi-German occupation lithuania lost about 250 000 citizens. During the Soviet-Russian occupation about 300 000 were deported to Siberia, 500 000 perished in forced emigration, fleeing from Soviet-Russian terror, 25 000 were killed by NKVD or Red Army in resistance against Soviet -Russian occupation during the 1944-1953 years. Biggest losses came from Soviet-Russian occupation.
The section looks quite balanced. I just would add numbers of Lithuanians who saved the Jews from Holocaust to have a more balanced view. What is lacking also - Nazi attempts to provoke pogroms and their propaganda methods. -- Ke an ( talk) 17:06, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
1. Other witnesses also mentioned Raštikis visit to the Nazis. This event is a fact. Moreover, there absolutely are no reasons not to believe in his words because he never was a Nazi and always was a protector of Lithuanian citizens, including Lithuanian Jews (who, as I already mentioned, had batallions in Raštikis' led Lithuanian Army). Raštikis was a patriotic Lithuanian hero and only the soviets always tried to darken his glorious reputation. They kidnapped his children, forced them to write letter to the USA where they begged his father to come back to Lithuania after the soviet occupation. Guess what they had in mind upon his return to the occupied Lithuania? Obviously, it was a bullet to his head to silence him. But he did not returned and always shouted loudly about the soviets crimes. So we have to remain very, very critical to sources that have connections with USSR/Russia when we speak about Raštikis. Many of these do desperately call him a nazi because almost every soviet/russian enemy is a nazi/fascist still to this day (or American and their allies), however no reliable Western sources call Raštikis as a nazi and there was no Raštikis' trial in the USA like other nazies. If you raise doubts about Raštikis' words reliability about his totally positive view towards Jews - please provide reliable sources why he was a nazi or participated in the Holocaust.
3. As I already said, Kaunas pogrom was a propaganda event organized by nazis. If you think this picture is objective, please show me in it any soldiers with the SS/nazi/gestapo uniforms. It only depicts civilian looking people near killed Jews, however most of these "civilians" were nazis that were not subordinate to the Provisional Government/LAF (quote from
Kaunas pogrom: "According to Stahlecker's report of October 15, local Lithuanians were not enthusiastic about the pogrom and so he had to use Algirdas Klimaitis and his men.[4] Klimaitis controlled a paramilitary unit of roughly 600 men that was organized in
Tilsit by
SD and was not subordinated to the LAF"). If Klimaitis and his 600 nazi monsters are notable to you, why the only legitimate Commander of the Lithuanian Army (as a PG Minister of Defence) Raštikis is not? Raštikis and PG saved thousands of Lithuanians from further soviet executions and the PG had no chance to combat the Nazi Germany because even the huge beast USSR alone would have probably been trounced by nazis without the Western allies support, so nobody can blame PG for their later surrender to nazis.
4. Lithuanian Jews are equal to other Lithuanians, Lithuanian Poles and so on. Columbarium picture annotation sums up all these casualties together. There is not enough space to add illustrations of massacres in the main page because now it is perfectly balanced and we need to keep these in the
History of Lithuania.
5. Already wrote about this in the 3rd point. It does not depict nazi/SS/gestapo soldiers near the killed Jews and because of this event propagandic task it might easily confuse readers in a way that Lithuanians/LAF/PG organized this event themselves.
6. Ke an already perfectly answered to this point. Depiction of 600 nazi monsters work over 25000 Lithuanians who saved Jews is not right. Raštikis illustrates all these 25000 who protected Jews from the Holocaust and not him alone. If 600 Klimaitis' nazis are more important than 25000 Lithuanians to you then you are really into the anti-Lithuanian propaganda.
@Ke an Could you provide source from where you got these numbers? We could expand Raštikis' illustration annotation by adding that 25000 Lithuanians actively protected Jews from the Holocaust. It would be clearer then why this illustration is important. --
Pofka (
talk)
18:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Ke an:@ Pofka:@ Minnekon: Israel has recognized 893 Lithuanians as Righteous Among the Nations for risking their lives to save Jews. Approximately 13,000 men served in the Lithuanian Auxiliary Police Battalions that were involved in the mass murder of Jews. -- Tobby72 ( talk) 07:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Renata3: While I agree with removing excesive images and especially those images which are not from Lithuania, I think there are cases when baby was thrown out with the water. e.g. decisive battles of Algirdas. -- Ke an ( talk) 05:16, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
Regarding this edit by @ Ke an: alias IP 188.69.193.82:
P.S: @
Tobby72: manipulating talk pages is not your responsibility here. --
Ke an (
talk)
00:59, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
The Polish minority in Lithuania is not discriminated. Just because they ask for "special status" that does not mean that they are discriminated. Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians and other minorities do not ask for "special status" and follow the law. I should remind that law is equal to everyone, and just because someone thinks they are "special" does not mean discrimination. And as for Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania – Christian Families Alliance, it is a well known fact that most of their members do not really care for Polish minority rights, and just try to make a fuss when there is none. In addition, most of those members are openly supporting the pro-Russian political stance and accuse the Polish government in the same way they accuse the Lithuanian government. Even the politicians from Poland laugh at that party for their silly accusations, and one of AWPL's members have been asked to come to prosecutor's office in Poland for wasting Polish government funds on other things than Polish minority's needs in Lithuania. – Sabbatino ( talk) 12:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
@ Tobby72: Indeed what Sabbatino already wrote. Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania – Christian Families Alliance is a joke. It is a pro-kremlin, not a pro-Polish party. Leader of this trash party Valdemar Tomaševski often wears Ribbon of Saint George in public events (e.g.: https://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/antakalnio-kapinese-pergales-dienos-minejime-skambejo-tik-rusu-kalba-ir-mirgejo-georgijaus-juosteliu-spalvos-56-425350 this event where he participates in a Victory Day (9 May) event together with the former USSR veterans - colleagues of those who smashed Poland during WW II). Any true Polish nationalist would crush him immediately for wearing such symbol by knowing how many horrors the Russian Empire/USSR caused to Poland. -- Pofka ( talk) 19:44, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
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Add info about EU accession to the summary, as well as Council of Europe, Schengen, OECD, etc. (making it the same as the other Eu countries summaries). AndyPT ( talk) 19:23, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
According to all sources and organization, lithuania and the baltic region is in northern europe. For some reason latvia and estonia are defined as so while lithuania isn’t. The only source which does say “east” is the CIA factbook, which is out of date because it is dated back to the iron curtain era. When lithuania was mostly not recognized. Therefore, this should be changed immediately. There is no doubt among organization nor researchers. The correct and fair solution is: “BALTIC REGION OF NORTHERN EUROPE “ Jonathan311 ( talk) 21:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
"Lithuania historically and culturally was always (except occupations) considered a Northern country"claim. In addition, Encyclopædia Britannica, which is one of the best sources about most things, lists Lithuania as being in northeastern Europe, but we certainly do not need to write like that because Northeastern Europe redirects to Baltic region. Meanwhile, Visuotinė lietuvių enciklopedija says that "Lietuva yra Europos geografiniame viduryje, pietrytinėje Baltijos jūros pakrantėje." or "Gamtinės geografijos požiūriu, Lietuva yra vidutinių platumų šalis Rytų Europos lygumos vakarinėje dalyje, pereinamojo (iš jūrinio į žemyninį) klimato, Rytų Europos mišriųjų miškų geografinėje zonoje." It is evident that both of you want to list the political division instead of the geographical division, which should be listed. For example, Germany's page says that "is a country in Central and Western Europe, lying between the Baltic and North seas to the north, and the Alps to the south." and omits any mention of the political division. Additionally, from the political POV, Lithuania can even be considered as a Central European country because of its historical ties to Poland or Eastern European country due to its occupations by the Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Geographically, it was and will always be in Northern and Eastern Europe, because half of Lithuania is in Eastern and the other half is in Northern Europe. From the geographic POV, Žemaitija should even be in other time zone, which would be UTC+01:00 and not UTC+02:00 as it is now applied to whole country, because the climate and geographical position of Žemaitija is a bit different than what we have in Suvalkija, Aukštaitija and Dzūkija. And that is why Lithuania's position is listed as "is a country in the Baltic region of northern-eastern Europe", because all possible geographical positions should be mentioned and any political division should be omitted. – Sabbatino ( talk) 07:37, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
...Carta Marina which describe Lithuanians as a northern nation, because it is you who is trying to make the change and it is your duty to support the claim. What Carta Marina texts do you have in mind and where can they be found? At the moment it is looking more like a personal synthesis of a map with no sources to back up the claim you are making. Even its Wikipedia page clearly says that "The map covers the Nordic lands of "Svecia" (Svealand), "Gothia" (Götaland), "Norvegia" (Norway), Dania (Denmark), Islandia (Iceland), Finlandia (Finland), and Livonia (Estonia and Latvia)." I do not see any mention about Lithuania. In addition, POV can be political, geographical, cultural, etc. Therefore, Central Europe does not mean that it is only related to Germany , because it can include countries that were part of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, various Austrian and Hungarian states, and various German states. Moving on to the "geocultural or geographic" point, it should be geographical, because that is how countries are usually defined. – Sabbatino ( talk) 13:39, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
As you can see @Sabbatino: most people agree that the correct for is baltic region of northern europe. Please make an effort of changing it once and for all. Jonathan311 ( talk) 13:12, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino i have no idea how to link you so i will just write it and hope you’ll see. You wanted arguements and here they are: The respected organizations that claim lithuania to be Northern Europe are- UNESCO, EuroVoc, National Geographic Society, committee for international cooperation in national research in demography. All of these against the factbook from the post soviet era. I didn’t link these cause i don’t know how. Please take a look Jonathan311 ( talk) 10:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino. Do me a favour and teach ne how to link you. And...There are no possible argument. You just won’t find them. Both for or against. That is because you can’t prove geographic areas. It makes no sense. What you can prove is that from the beginning of time. Lithuania was and still is influenced by the northern states. It’s entire history is tied with these states since the vikings once terrorized its shores. The connection of the lithuanian people with slavs and eastern europeans is a period lasting no longer than 200 years combined, against thousands of years under geraman and north germanic rule. Even the lithuanian language and people if you’d check, are originated in juttlan- Which is today denmark. All of the above are nothing compared to the recent 100 years soviet occupation and the 200 year polish influence. Also, the organizations i recalled before do identify lithuania as northern in their offices location Jonathan311 ( talk) 16:49, 17 December 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan311 ( talk • contribs) 16:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino i agree that I’m not giving exaples as i should and i want you to know that I’m not here for fighting. You as an elder editor must do your best to claim me wrong and give your own arguements. I would like to see you cheking more about this subject and truely explaim your (sorry but) false claim. Do what’s right to wikipedia, not your name!! Jonathan311 ( talk) 19:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino i believe i did my job and it’s your arrogance speaking. Not quite you.. deapite all that i do respect that and i want you to know that i have read every one of your reply’s and i still don’t find them enough because there is no true reason in them only tons of words. I don’t believe we will make any progress like that and i start to believe that this is what you want. Therefore i think there is no point in this conversation. I wish i could “talk to your manager” or something but sadly it isn’t the case :( Jonathan311 ( talk) 21:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Since sources differ on the current location, may I suggest a further compromise in just saying Europe. The exact location is described in subsequent sentences, so we can leave it to readers to decide whether they consider that location to be northern, eastern or north-eastern. Dbfirs 22:12, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
This last solution may fit. The Baltic region of europe Jonathan311 ( talk) 22:55, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
This section is written from a biased POV. For example: "Siege of Pilėnai is noted for the Lithuanians' heroic defense", "The Livonian Brothers were smashed", a great victory over the Teutonic Knights" and " battle destroyed a military alliance". Instead of neutral terms such as defeated, victory or ended there is the use of language which valorises Lithuanian forces. The following claim "ruling elite practised religious tolerance" has no supporting citation. Overall the section is written as a heroic account of history. Angrynative ( talk) 16:25, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
This article needs to be cleaned up again as per WP:SANDWICH and WP:GALLERY. Will wait for a reply before removing image spam again. Its disappointing to see zero effort to fix the problem...just reverts. Sure your doing right by our readers making the article hard to read?-- Moxy ( talk) 12:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Moxy: There already was a discussion about this section. The decision was to keep it like it is now. Religion is indeed one of the most important sections for Lithuania and after reading its history you will easily understand why it is important to display these images of different churches. -- Pofka ( talk) 15:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
The historical name LITUA, LITWA, LITVANIE, is belong to Grand Duchy of Litvane
The country on this official page is officially Lietuva, not have any relation to Grand Duchy of Litvanie, but historically until 1917 was Samogotia. In 1918 after Rossian Empire falls, the people of Samogotia declare new name Lietuvia, since the name was similar to Grand Duchy of Litwa, western country start calls them as heard before. One more thins, that Vilna (current Vilnius) was gifted to Lietuvia (Samogotia) only in 1940 by Stalin against access territory of soviets troops, and before was never being part of them. Important point that in Grand Duchy of Litvanie you will not find any official original documents of preset Lietuva language (Samogotia).
Lets say correct - Lietuva Lets mean correct - Lietuva is not Litvanie / Grand Duchy of Litvanie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ofisrom ( talk • contribs) 21:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is not the place for fairy tales and Litvinist propoganda. – Sabbatino"
Mr.Sabbatino, before claim about propaganda, check the history well and original documents of Grand Duchy of Litva
and will find all country documents on WesternRus language include main law Constitution, but you will not find Samagotian language documents (its current Letvua),
Samogotia (current Letuva) people always mentioned separately include original antique maps,
also you can check auction of original money and coins of 16th where you can see the name LITVA, and not any Samogotia or Letuva.
the name Letuva was create by Samogotian people for their new country in 1918, and they defiantly doesn't have any relation to history of Grand Duchy of LITVA (on Latin Litvanie) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ofisrom (
talk •
contribs)
10:17, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
I'ld like we to enrich this article with additional info. The article looks a little bit biased now which contradicts Wikipedia principle of neutrality.
Please check out the book page photo below. Source: Belarus The Epoch Of The Grand Duchy Of Lithuania. Uladzimir Arlou, Zmicier Hierasimovic. 2018. ISBN: 978-985-458-294-8 Yaryla89 ( talk) 13:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Looks like there's some vandalism, or maybe sloppy editing, in the opening section. Countless repetitions of "Lithuania is in the Baltic region. Lithuania is a Baltic state. Lithuanians are Balts. Lithuanian is a Baltic language." Even if there is a difference between these facts, they should be condensed, or only the most all-encompassing fact (I'd say that Lithuania is a Baltic state) should be included in the paragraph. It seems like someone is trying to make a point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ari1891adler ( talk • contribs) 03:55, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Should we add another Infobox for the history of Lithuania from 1918-1940?
Actually, If you go at the History of Lithuania page, see the previous revision of the page and go to the 1918-1940 part, you will see an infobox, added by me, earlier! We can use that one!
There is no problem if it is the same republic! For example, take a look at the Afghanistan 1996-2001 page! It's the same emirate as the current one, and there it not seems to be a problem! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.25.122.234 ( talk) 13:04, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Not only the domestic industry, but also the population started feeling the lack of fuel, essential goods, and even hot water. Although the blockade lasted for 74 days, Lithuania did not renounce the declaration of independence.
Faced with enormous economic difficulties, including the cutting-off of its energy supplies, Lithuania had little option but to agree to a moratorium on its independence declaration in return for Moscow lifting the blockade.
To this day, Russia refuses to extradite the criminals against humanity that are responsible.
People from all over Lithuania flooded to Vilnius to defend their legitimately elected.
At that time, attempts were made to carry out a coup using the Soviet Armed Forces, the Internal Army of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the USSR Committee for State Security (KGB).
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:39, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
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The Info Box's "Formation" section jumps from "Independence Declared" in 1918 to "Independence Restored" in 1990. I assume a "Soviet Occupation" section should lie somewhere in between? Or is it implied by a lack of "Independence Achieved" or "Independence Established" following "Independence Declared"? I think the Soviet occupation was significant enough to deserve its own line. Even when considering the Soviet Union as the successor to the Russian Empire and thus implicitly included in the "Partition" of 1795, I would still argue for the "Soviet Occupation" to be a distinct event from said "Partition." However, I would not be so bold as to unilaterally edit the section, since others may feel differently and perhaps have more solid justifications for not including a "Soviet Occupation" section.
I would also suggest including a line for the "Nazi Occupation" perhaps between lines for separate periods of "Soviet Occupation." I can see this becoming an example of "mission creep" and becoming overly detailed for a section intended for a general overview with broad strokes. However, I still can't see the justification for omitting the "Soviet Occupation" entirely. 66.91.36.8 ( talk) 18:19, 26 February 2022 (UTC) 66.91.36.8 ( talk) 18:08, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
There has been controversy in the past about how to describe the Holocaust in Lithuania in this article but the current description seems unsatisfactory, with the death of 10-15% of Lithuanians compressed into three short and non specific paragraphs. I see there is a specialist article on the subject already (the Holocaust in Lithuania article). Would it make more sense to include a link to that? Monounsaturated ( talk) 07:48, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Литва́ and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 6#Литва́ until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. MB 01:43, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
What we should do with International rankings part? Leave it as it is or reduce it's size? M.K. ( talk) 07:31, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
The soundfile actually gives the usual American pronunciation (/lɪθuːˈeɪniə/, "lithooaynia," not the otherwise more usual /ˌlɪθjuːˈeɪniə/ ("lithyooaynia")). Kostaki mou ( talk) 03:08, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
It is rife with English punctuation mistakes/omissions, factual errors, and it reads like a promotional brochure. If someone knows anything about this country, please clean up this page.
Thanks 174.20.59.23 ( talk) 05:48, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Agreed - this page reads like Goebbels' propaganda - wishful thinking replaces facts that are judged as unfit to the "editors" delusional vision of history of lands only very recently under Lithuanian occupation (e.g. Wilna region) ond only by implicit permission of the previous occupants - Russians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.28.113.137 ( talk) 20:10, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
List seasonal averages, not just the recorded extremes. Are you trying to scare people?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.5.109.34 ( talk) 02:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Did Lithuania really lost 400 000 people in last 10 years? Its more than 10%, is this due to migration, low birth rates or different methodology of Census? Seems too much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.149.169 ( talk) 16:48, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
I think this phrase in the source explains the problem: "Tai sudaro apie 94 procentus pagal Gyventojų registro duomenis ir Statistikos departamento metodiką įvertinto Lietuvos gyventojų skaičiaus, kuris kovo 1 d. sudarė 3234,9 tūkst." Roughly it seems to say that the 3.054 million figure is 94% of the total in another department which uses a different methodology to arrive at a 3.234 million figure. I believe we'd be better going with the 3.234 million figure as it sounds more realistic compared to the 2001 figures. Valenciano ( talk) 18:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
At the moment it says "...the official language, Lithuanian, is only related to the other Baltic language, Latvian." Firstly Lithuanian is an Indo-European language so it's related to English and every other language in that family, and secondly that sentence implies Latvian is the only other Baltic language, forgetting Estonian. Fugyoo ( talk) 21:46, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
two users 2.225.32.218 and possible sock RammyJuice should explain the content-blanking they keep doing. example. Cramyourspam ( talk) 02:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Many Poles live around Vilnius, so the statement misinforms. Xx236 ( talk) 14:16, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I've been surfing Wiki extensively since it was founded, long before IE offered Compatibility View. To date, in the many thousands of pages I've been to, this is the first time Compatibility View jumped into action the very nanosecond an article began loading in my browser. In fact, it has never jumped into action ever before here on wiki. Compatibility View isn't enough it seems, as after a short while of being locked up, I got hit with a confirmation dialog box telling me a script on this page is causing IE to run slowly, do I want to stop running the script or continue?
Reloaded the page, same thing. Visited several other similar pages, no problem. Came back here...still locking up. I had a quick look but can't spot the problem. Thought it might be the anthem, removed the template, previewed the change but the problem persisted so I left it alone. Just thought someone might like to know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.106.21.172 ( talk) 01:19, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
"Lithuania became the first Soviet republic to declare the restoration of independent State of Lithuania" is mis-worded. Lithuania is likely the ONLY Soviet republic to declare itself the "State of Lithuania". Other Soviet republics declared independence later but each declared itself by a different name. How best to re-word this? (I was math, not English, major; I can see the problem but can't find a good solution.) 198.144.192.45 ( talk) 11:40, 25 July 2013 (UTC) Twitter.Com/CalRobert (Robert Maas)
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact#The_secret_protocol Lithuania was part of the German sphere of influence. Hence the soviet occupation of Lithuania was a violation of that agreement. -- 41.151.103.64 ( talk) 04:59, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
July 6, 1253 is currently mentioned in at least three places in the article as the date on which Mindaugas was crowned / Lithuania was established as a state. No qualifiers or notes are included with the date to reflect that the date is by no means certain and is challenged by other experts on Lithuanian history. In fact, the reference used for the date is an article criticising the validity of this very date, which is a bit ridiculous. If there are no objections, my suggestion is to leave July 6, 1253 in the infobox but add a note briefly explaining ambiguity. Other instances in text should be changed to just 1253 which is something that everyone more or less agrees on. No longer a penguin ( talk) 13:36, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
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please change ((Lithuanian)) to Lithuanian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4304:E6B0:218:8BFF:FE74:FE4F ( talk • contribs)
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In the section "History", subsection "20th and 21st centuries", 7th paragraph I seem to be unable to verify the statement: "A peace treaty signed between Lithuania and Poland on 7 October 1920, in Suwałki, recognized Vilnius as the capital of Lithuania". Neither the provided source ( http://vilnews.com/2012-02-11551) along with its 4 main hyperlinks, nor the relevant Wikipedia page ( /info/en/?search=Suwa%C5%82ki_Agreement), nor the original document ( Suwałki Agreement) support said statement. I would thus like to propose first and foremost the removal of said sentence, and secondly the addition of a more comprehensive description of the Polish-Lithuanian war in general. It is absent while being an important event, as even the same paragraph states that "Notwithstanding, Vilnius remained to be part of Poland becoming the cornerstone of Lithuania’s foreign policy.". GLowMat ( talk) 01:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
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Pls, edit Lithuania's geographical location form "northen-eastern europe" to "northen europe" as the other two baltic countries are. 91.198.17.200 ( talk) 15:34, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
To ensure that people using slow connections, old equipment, or mobile devices can still access the article (among other reasons), our guideline Wikipedia:Article size calls for articles to be no more than circa 10,000 words and 30 kB to 50 kB of readable prose. Once articles are over this limit, they are typically split and sub-articles created: see WP:SUBARTICLE. Lithuania is 13,236 words, with 84 kB readable prose. Re-adding content from sub-articles into the main article is a bad idea, as it's already too big even without these additions. — Diannaa 🍁 ( talk) 19:13, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
Why are event and date 14 not visible in the article? They are in the sourcecode/sourcetext, but do not appear in the article.
| established_event13 =
Admitted to
NATO
| established_date13 = 29 March 2004
| established_event14 = Joined the European Union
| established_date14 = 1 May 2004
Detektyw z Wilna (
talk)
18:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
@ Pofka: You removed cleanup tags ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Lithuania&oldid=833064602) explaining that the article is shorter than e.g. article on US. Cleanup is not about length, but importance. Article on Lithuania is full of petty details, which cannot be said about USA. History in the article on Lithuania should contain historic events that are somehow relevant today. The rest should be moved to History of Lithuania. Here are some of many examples of the petty details with explanation in the brackets.
1) On 22 September 1236, the Battle of Saulė between Samogitians and the Livonian Brothers of the Sword took place close to Šiauliai. The Livonian Brothers were smashed during it and their further conquest of the Balts lands were stopped. The battle inspired rebellions among the Curonians, Semigallians, Selonians, Oeselians, tribes previously conquered by the Sword-Brothers. Some thirty years' worth of conquests on the left bank of Daugava were lost.[33] In 2000, the Lithuanian and Latvian parliaments declared 22 September to be the Day of Baltic Unity. (Battle of Saule is tiny and not even its exact location is known. Losing small territory on the left bank of a river 1000 years ago is hardly relevant today. Besides, Day of Baltic Unity is not celebrated and not even printed in most calendars. There are days for everything, from Vitamin C Day to Lemon Chiffon Cake Day)
2) A new constitution adopted in 1928, which consolidated presidential powers. Gradually the opposition parties were banned, the censorship was tightened, and the rights of national minorities were narrowed. (stricter censorship 100 years ago is hardly relevant for modern day Lithuania. It very well should belong on History of Lithuania, but it's a petty detail for article on Lithuania)
3) In 1935, farmers began strikes in Suvalkija and Dzūkija. In addition to economic ones, political demands were made. (Again, petty detail. USA has had 100s of strikes since 1900 ( List of strikes but you won't find them on the article about USA))
4) The next step made by the USSR was accusations of the abduction of the Red Army soldiers in Lithuania. Although the Lithuanian government denied such allegations, the tensions became heightened on both sides.[91] On 14 June 1940, the USSR issued an ultimatum to Lithuania, demanding to replace the government and allow Red Army's units to enter the territory of Lithuania without any prior agreements, which would mean the occupation of the country.[92] On 14 June 1940 just before midnight, the last meeting of the Lithuanian Government was held in the Presidential Palace, in Kaunas. During it, the Soviet's ultimatum was debated.[93] President Antanas Smetona categorically declined to accept most of the ultimatum demands, argued for military resistance and was supported by Kazys Musteikis, Konstantinas Šakenis (lt), Kazimieras Jokantas (lt), however the Commander of the Armed Forces Vincas Vitkauskas, Divisional general Stasys Raštikis, Kazys Bizauskas, Antanas Merkys and most of the Lithuanian Government members decided that it would be impossible, especially due to the previously stationed Soviet soldiers, and accepted the ultimatum.[94] On that night, the Soviet forces executed Lithuanian border guard Aleksandras Barauskas (lt) near the Belarus border.[95] ... (Again, way too detailed and irrelevant. Otherwise, we could copy-paste a lot of details of every battle, conflict and event and make this article 20x longer. Or better not...)
Gradually, the economic relations had been restored. But the tension had peaked again in January 1991. At that time, attempts were made to carry out a coup using the Soviet Armed Forces, the Internal Army of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the USSR Committee for State Security (KGB). Because of the bad economic situation in Lithuania, the forces in Moscow thought the coup d’état will receive a strong public support. But the situation was the opposite. (way too detailed for an article on a completely different topic) Detektyw z Wilna ( talk) 13:58, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for a nice chapter about mythology. :) I just think we should prefer more genuine manifestations of pagan believe - Raganų kalnas and Morė are examples of degradation of former religion into village customs or tales. - my 2cnt. -- Ke an ( talk) 19:08, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
I think reader should be warned about the low quality of this chapter. 95 percent of it devoted for Crime and Corruption. Few percent are for history. And 1-2 sentences about legal system. So far I think it is the worst chapter, Science and Technology - second :) I would suggest to put Law under Politics as it is in Germany, France, Estonia, Latvia and others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ke an ( talk • contribs) 20:13, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
I have noticed quite many statements are supported by contextual statements in the source or statements lacking direct source support are being used - especially those with Delfi sources. The fact, that many sources are taken from Lithuanian media doubles the problem, since foreign reader cannot verify the source. I also think Delfi source should be taken with the grain of salt, since during past 5 years it was introducing many Clickbait articles. You can find almost any indirect support of your statement if your will search through it. Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources -- Ke an ( talk) 15:14, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
@ Ke an, Detektyw z Wilna, and Pofka: I advise all of you to stop these edit wars and discuss the matters on the talk page per WP:BRD. Otherwise you all will be reported for edit warring. One more thing – do not discuss the matters in Lithuanian anywhere in English Wikipedia (article's or users' talk pages). – Sabbatino ( talk) 18:22, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Detektyw z Wilna ( talk) 08:32, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
The more good content there is under Science & Technology the better. But how exactly is mentioning random companies and people without widespread prominence following the notability guidelines? SørenKierkegaard ( talk) 08:43, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Just some thoughts about the galleries:
-- Ke an ( talk) 14:04, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
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195.135.213.170 ( talk) 13:46, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
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Lithuania does more crime and drinking than Russia. Blackkitty5060 ( talk) 12:58, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
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There's a grammatical error in Health section, 2nd paragraph. Main article: Health in Lithuania
This line: According to experts, this number was largely influenced by the Soviets authority because mostly Christian country's inhabitants previously considered it as a severe sin and were afraid to took their lives.
Should instead be this: According to experts, this number was largely influenced by the Soviets' authority because mostly Christian country's inhabitants previously considered it as a severe sin and were afraid to take their lives. IronMaggie ( talk) 20:27, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
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"the" needs deleting from in front of "Nazi Germany" when referring to the June 22, 1941 invasion by them. Numbed ( talk) 17:47, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
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some errors in style such as "Lithuania, after breaking the Soviet Union had difficult crime situation" need adressing. Dawbeachjack ( talk) 23:00, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
The above problem has been taken care of and the sentence is relatively good-style now, but to further improve it, I suggest writing: "During the first years after Lithuania’s breaking away from the USSR, the crime situation was problematic, but it has improved since then, making Lithuania a reasonably safe country now."
For reference the version I see now: "Lithuania, after breaking away from the Soviet Union had a difficult crime situation, however the Lithuanian law enforcement agencies eliminated many criminals over the years, making Lithuania a reasonably safe country."-- Geke ( talk) 08:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Now Etymology of Lithuania takes too much space in my opinion. There are many very hypothetical facts with little scientific value. I think this paragraph is way too big for a country page. I would suggest to leave the most credible hypothesis of the name Lithuania only. Ke an ( talk) 09:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
Another issue with the etymology: The last sentence is unclear/bad English: "Term leiši (plural of leitis), as a synonym to the Lithuanians ethnonym (beside the newer lietuvietis), to this day maintained Latvians who are speaking with a very closely related Latvian language."
Can anyone understand this and rephrase it? Or say it in a different language, so I/we have a chance to translate it ourselves? -- Geke ( talk) 08:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Under the section "Health", there is the following sentence:
"According to experts, this number was largely influenced by the Soviets' authority because mostly Christian country's inhabitants previously considered it as a severe sin and were afraid to took their lives."
"to took" is grammatically incorrect, the appropriate wording is "to take". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.123.98.253 ( talk) 18:50, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
I think that the article improved significantly to compare just how it was 1 year before. Could we define the areas which still need more attention? Maybe it will reach GA one day. :) - Ke an ( talk) 05:58, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Ok, let's clarify latest edits. You want to delete photo about Kaunas pogrom and keep photo of former Lithuanian Army Commander Stasys Raštikis, who allegedly tried to unsuccessfully protect Jews. You claim that action of Raštikis is "MUCH MORE" (using your words and caps) important than Kaunas mass murders. Reason you seem to give is that "Jews also participated by brutally torturing and executing Lithuanian intellectuals in the forest. Both sides had monsters..." and pogrom was ordered by Germany and carried out by drunk persons(?).
The photo of Kaunas pogrom is considered a montage by expert photograpers - it has quite many unanswered questions to this day. [1]
You cite EB and say "short overview of Lithuanian history mentions killing of Jews, but nothing about attempts to protect them". I would like to mention, that EB says nothing about participation of Lithuanians in both actions. Should we correct Wikiepdia article accordingly?
Regarding the photo of the colombarium and it's wording - nothing wrong with it. During the Nazi-German occupation lithuania lost about 250 000 citizens. During the Soviet-Russian occupation about 300 000 were deported to Siberia, 500 000 perished in forced emigration, fleeing from Soviet-Russian terror, 25 000 were killed by NKVD or Red Army in resistance against Soviet -Russian occupation during the 1944-1953 years. Biggest losses came from Soviet-Russian occupation.
The section looks quite balanced. I just would add numbers of Lithuanians who saved the Jews from Holocaust to have a more balanced view. What is lacking also - Nazi attempts to provoke pogroms and their propaganda methods. -- Ke an ( talk) 17:06, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
1. Other witnesses also mentioned Raštikis visit to the Nazis. This event is a fact. Moreover, there absolutely are no reasons not to believe in his words because he never was a Nazi and always was a protector of Lithuanian citizens, including Lithuanian Jews (who, as I already mentioned, had batallions in Raštikis' led Lithuanian Army). Raštikis was a patriotic Lithuanian hero and only the soviets always tried to darken his glorious reputation. They kidnapped his children, forced them to write letter to the USA where they begged his father to come back to Lithuania after the soviet occupation. Guess what they had in mind upon his return to the occupied Lithuania? Obviously, it was a bullet to his head to silence him. But he did not returned and always shouted loudly about the soviets crimes. So we have to remain very, very critical to sources that have connections with USSR/Russia when we speak about Raštikis. Many of these do desperately call him a nazi because almost every soviet/russian enemy is a nazi/fascist still to this day (or American and their allies), however no reliable Western sources call Raštikis as a nazi and there was no Raštikis' trial in the USA like other nazies. If you raise doubts about Raštikis' words reliability about his totally positive view towards Jews - please provide reliable sources why he was a nazi or participated in the Holocaust.
3. As I already said, Kaunas pogrom was a propaganda event organized by nazis. If you think this picture is objective, please show me in it any soldiers with the SS/nazi/gestapo uniforms. It only depicts civilian looking people near killed Jews, however most of these "civilians" were nazis that were not subordinate to the Provisional Government/LAF (quote from
Kaunas pogrom: "According to Stahlecker's report of October 15, local Lithuanians were not enthusiastic about the pogrom and so he had to use Algirdas Klimaitis and his men.[4] Klimaitis controlled a paramilitary unit of roughly 600 men that was organized in
Tilsit by
SD and was not subordinated to the LAF"). If Klimaitis and his 600 nazi monsters are notable to you, why the only legitimate Commander of the Lithuanian Army (as a PG Minister of Defence) Raštikis is not? Raštikis and PG saved thousands of Lithuanians from further soviet executions and the PG had no chance to combat the Nazi Germany because even the huge beast USSR alone would have probably been trounced by nazis without the Western allies support, so nobody can blame PG for their later surrender to nazis.
4. Lithuanian Jews are equal to other Lithuanians, Lithuanian Poles and so on. Columbarium picture annotation sums up all these casualties together. There is not enough space to add illustrations of massacres in the main page because now it is perfectly balanced and we need to keep these in the
History of Lithuania.
5. Already wrote about this in the 3rd point. It does not depict nazi/SS/gestapo soldiers near the killed Jews and because of this event propagandic task it might easily confuse readers in a way that Lithuanians/LAF/PG organized this event themselves.
6. Ke an already perfectly answered to this point. Depiction of 600 nazi monsters work over 25000 Lithuanians who saved Jews is not right. Raštikis illustrates all these 25000 who protected Jews from the Holocaust and not him alone. If 600 Klimaitis' nazis are more important than 25000 Lithuanians to you then you are really into the anti-Lithuanian propaganda.
@Ke an Could you provide source from where you got these numbers? We could expand Raštikis' illustration annotation by adding that 25000 Lithuanians actively protected Jews from the Holocaust. It would be clearer then why this illustration is important. --
Pofka (
talk)
18:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Ke an:@ Pofka:@ Minnekon: Israel has recognized 893 Lithuanians as Righteous Among the Nations for risking their lives to save Jews. Approximately 13,000 men served in the Lithuanian Auxiliary Police Battalions that were involved in the mass murder of Jews. -- Tobby72 ( talk) 07:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Renata3: While I agree with removing excesive images and especially those images which are not from Lithuania, I think there are cases when baby was thrown out with the water. e.g. decisive battles of Algirdas. -- Ke an ( talk) 05:16, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
Regarding this edit by @ Ke an: alias IP 188.69.193.82:
P.S: @
Tobby72: manipulating talk pages is not your responsibility here. --
Ke an (
talk)
00:59, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
The Polish minority in Lithuania is not discriminated. Just because they ask for "special status" that does not mean that they are discriminated. Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians and other minorities do not ask for "special status" and follow the law. I should remind that law is equal to everyone, and just because someone thinks they are "special" does not mean discrimination. And as for Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania – Christian Families Alliance, it is a well known fact that most of their members do not really care for Polish minority rights, and just try to make a fuss when there is none. In addition, most of those members are openly supporting the pro-Russian political stance and accuse the Polish government in the same way they accuse the Lithuanian government. Even the politicians from Poland laugh at that party for their silly accusations, and one of AWPL's members have been asked to come to prosecutor's office in Poland for wasting Polish government funds on other things than Polish minority's needs in Lithuania. – Sabbatino ( talk) 12:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
@ Tobby72: Indeed what Sabbatino already wrote. Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania – Christian Families Alliance is a joke. It is a pro-kremlin, not a pro-Polish party. Leader of this trash party Valdemar Tomaševski often wears Ribbon of Saint George in public events (e.g.: https://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/antakalnio-kapinese-pergales-dienos-minejime-skambejo-tik-rusu-kalba-ir-mirgejo-georgijaus-juosteliu-spalvos-56-425350 this event where he participates in a Victory Day (9 May) event together with the former USSR veterans - colleagues of those who smashed Poland during WW II). Any true Polish nationalist would crush him immediately for wearing such symbol by knowing how many horrors the Russian Empire/USSR caused to Poland. -- Pofka ( talk) 19:44, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Lithuania has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add info about EU accession to the summary, as well as Council of Europe, Schengen, OECD, etc. (making it the same as the other Eu countries summaries). AndyPT ( talk) 19:23, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
According to all sources and organization, lithuania and the baltic region is in northern europe. For some reason latvia and estonia are defined as so while lithuania isn’t. The only source which does say “east” is the CIA factbook, which is out of date because it is dated back to the iron curtain era. When lithuania was mostly not recognized. Therefore, this should be changed immediately. There is no doubt among organization nor researchers. The correct and fair solution is: “BALTIC REGION OF NORTHERN EUROPE “ Jonathan311 ( talk) 21:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
"Lithuania historically and culturally was always (except occupations) considered a Northern country"claim. In addition, Encyclopædia Britannica, which is one of the best sources about most things, lists Lithuania as being in northeastern Europe, but we certainly do not need to write like that because Northeastern Europe redirects to Baltic region. Meanwhile, Visuotinė lietuvių enciklopedija says that "Lietuva yra Europos geografiniame viduryje, pietrytinėje Baltijos jūros pakrantėje." or "Gamtinės geografijos požiūriu, Lietuva yra vidutinių platumų šalis Rytų Europos lygumos vakarinėje dalyje, pereinamojo (iš jūrinio į žemyninį) klimato, Rytų Europos mišriųjų miškų geografinėje zonoje." It is evident that both of you want to list the political division instead of the geographical division, which should be listed. For example, Germany's page says that "is a country in Central and Western Europe, lying between the Baltic and North seas to the north, and the Alps to the south." and omits any mention of the political division. Additionally, from the political POV, Lithuania can even be considered as a Central European country because of its historical ties to Poland or Eastern European country due to its occupations by the Russian Empire and Soviet Union. Geographically, it was and will always be in Northern and Eastern Europe, because half of Lithuania is in Eastern and the other half is in Northern Europe. From the geographic POV, Žemaitija should even be in other time zone, which would be UTC+01:00 and not UTC+02:00 as it is now applied to whole country, because the climate and geographical position of Žemaitija is a bit different than what we have in Suvalkija, Aukštaitija and Dzūkija. And that is why Lithuania's position is listed as "is a country in the Baltic region of northern-eastern Europe", because all possible geographical positions should be mentioned and any political division should be omitted. – Sabbatino ( talk) 07:37, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
...Carta Marina which describe Lithuanians as a northern nation, because it is you who is trying to make the change and it is your duty to support the claim. What Carta Marina texts do you have in mind and where can they be found? At the moment it is looking more like a personal synthesis of a map with no sources to back up the claim you are making. Even its Wikipedia page clearly says that "The map covers the Nordic lands of "Svecia" (Svealand), "Gothia" (Götaland), "Norvegia" (Norway), Dania (Denmark), Islandia (Iceland), Finlandia (Finland), and Livonia (Estonia and Latvia)." I do not see any mention about Lithuania. In addition, POV can be political, geographical, cultural, etc. Therefore, Central Europe does not mean that it is only related to Germany , because it can include countries that were part of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, various Austrian and Hungarian states, and various German states. Moving on to the "geocultural or geographic" point, it should be geographical, because that is how countries are usually defined. – Sabbatino ( talk) 13:39, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
As you can see @Sabbatino: most people agree that the correct for is baltic region of northern europe. Please make an effort of changing it once and for all. Jonathan311 ( talk) 13:12, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino i have no idea how to link you so i will just write it and hope you’ll see. You wanted arguements and here they are: The respected organizations that claim lithuania to be Northern Europe are- UNESCO, EuroVoc, National Geographic Society, committee for international cooperation in national research in demography. All of these against the factbook from the post soviet era. I didn’t link these cause i don’t know how. Please take a look Jonathan311 ( talk) 10:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino. Do me a favour and teach ne how to link you. And...There are no possible argument. You just won’t find them. Both for or against. That is because you can’t prove geographic areas. It makes no sense. What you can prove is that from the beginning of time. Lithuania was and still is influenced by the northern states. It’s entire history is tied with these states since the vikings once terrorized its shores. The connection of the lithuanian people with slavs and eastern europeans is a period lasting no longer than 200 years combined, against thousands of years under geraman and north germanic rule. Even the lithuanian language and people if you’d check, are originated in juttlan- Which is today denmark. All of the above are nothing compared to the recent 100 years soviet occupation and the 200 year polish influence. Also, the organizations i recalled before do identify lithuania as northern in their offices location Jonathan311 ( talk) 16:49, 17 December 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan311 ( talk • contribs) 16:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino i agree that I’m not giving exaples as i should and i want you to know that I’m not here for fighting. You as an elder editor must do your best to claim me wrong and give your own arguements. I would like to see you cheking more about this subject and truely explaim your (sorry but) false claim. Do what’s right to wikipedia, not your name!! Jonathan311 ( talk) 19:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
@Sabbatino i believe i did my job and it’s your arrogance speaking. Not quite you.. deapite all that i do respect that and i want you to know that i have read every one of your reply’s and i still don’t find them enough because there is no true reason in them only tons of words. I don’t believe we will make any progress like that and i start to believe that this is what you want. Therefore i think there is no point in this conversation. I wish i could “talk to your manager” or something but sadly it isn’t the case :( Jonathan311 ( talk) 21:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Since sources differ on the current location, may I suggest a further compromise in just saying Europe. The exact location is described in subsequent sentences, so we can leave it to readers to decide whether they consider that location to be northern, eastern or north-eastern. Dbfirs 22:12, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
This last solution may fit. The Baltic region of europe Jonathan311 ( talk) 22:55, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
This section is written from a biased POV. For example: "Siege of Pilėnai is noted for the Lithuanians' heroic defense", "The Livonian Brothers were smashed", a great victory over the Teutonic Knights" and " battle destroyed a military alliance". Instead of neutral terms such as defeated, victory or ended there is the use of language which valorises Lithuanian forces. The following claim "ruling elite practised religious tolerance" has no supporting citation. Overall the section is written as a heroic account of history. Angrynative ( talk) 16:25, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
This article needs to be cleaned up again as per WP:SANDWICH and WP:GALLERY. Will wait for a reply before removing image spam again. Its disappointing to see zero effort to fix the problem...just reverts. Sure your doing right by our readers making the article hard to read?-- Moxy ( talk) 12:15, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Moxy: There already was a discussion about this section. The decision was to keep it like it is now. Religion is indeed one of the most important sections for Lithuania and after reading its history you will easily understand why it is important to display these images of different churches. -- Pofka ( talk) 15:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
The historical name LITUA, LITWA, LITVANIE, is belong to Grand Duchy of Litvane
The country on this official page is officially Lietuva, not have any relation to Grand Duchy of Litvanie, but historically until 1917 was Samogotia. In 1918 after Rossian Empire falls, the people of Samogotia declare new name Lietuvia, since the name was similar to Grand Duchy of Litwa, western country start calls them as heard before. One more thins, that Vilna (current Vilnius) was gifted to Lietuvia (Samogotia) only in 1940 by Stalin against access territory of soviets troops, and before was never being part of them. Important point that in Grand Duchy of Litvanie you will not find any official original documents of preset Lietuva language (Samogotia).
Lets say correct - Lietuva Lets mean correct - Lietuva is not Litvanie / Grand Duchy of Litvanie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ofisrom ( talk • contribs) 21:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is not the place for fairy tales and Litvinist propoganda. – Sabbatino"
Mr.Sabbatino, before claim about propaganda, check the history well and original documents of Grand Duchy of Litva
and will find all country documents on WesternRus language include main law Constitution, but you will not find Samagotian language documents (its current Letvua),
Samogotia (current Letuva) people always mentioned separately include original antique maps,
also you can check auction of original money and coins of 16th where you can see the name LITVA, and not any Samogotia or Letuva.
the name Letuva was create by Samogotian people for their new country in 1918, and they defiantly doesn't have any relation to history of Grand Duchy of LITVA (on Latin Litvanie) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ofisrom (
talk •
contribs)
10:17, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
I'ld like we to enrich this article with additional info. The article looks a little bit biased now which contradicts Wikipedia principle of neutrality.
Please check out the book page photo below. Source: Belarus The Epoch Of The Grand Duchy Of Lithuania. Uladzimir Arlou, Zmicier Hierasimovic. 2018. ISBN: 978-985-458-294-8 Yaryla89 ( talk) 13:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Looks like there's some vandalism, or maybe sloppy editing, in the opening section. Countless repetitions of "Lithuania is in the Baltic region. Lithuania is a Baltic state. Lithuanians are Balts. Lithuanian is a Baltic language." Even if there is a difference between these facts, they should be condensed, or only the most all-encompassing fact (I'd say that Lithuania is a Baltic state) should be included in the paragraph. It seems like someone is trying to make a point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ari1891adler ( talk • contribs) 03:55, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Should we add another Infobox for the history of Lithuania from 1918-1940?
Actually, If you go at the History of Lithuania page, see the previous revision of the page and go to the 1918-1940 part, you will see an infobox, added by me, earlier! We can use that one!
There is no problem if it is the same republic! For example, take a look at the Afghanistan 1996-2001 page! It's the same emirate as the current one, and there it not seems to be a problem! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.25.122.234 ( talk) 13:04, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Not only the domestic industry, but also the population started feeling the lack of fuel, essential goods, and even hot water. Although the blockade lasted for 74 days, Lithuania did not renounce the declaration of independence.
Faced with enormous economic difficulties, including the cutting-off of its energy supplies, Lithuania had little option but to agree to a moratorium on its independence declaration in return for Moscow lifting the blockade.
To this day, Russia refuses to extradite the criminals against humanity that are responsible.
People from all over Lithuania flooded to Vilnius to defend their legitimately elected.
At that time, attempts were made to carry out a coup using the Soviet Armed Forces, the Internal Army of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the USSR Committee for State Security (KGB).
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:39, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:52, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
The Info Box's "Formation" section jumps from "Independence Declared" in 1918 to "Independence Restored" in 1990. I assume a "Soviet Occupation" section should lie somewhere in between? Or is it implied by a lack of "Independence Achieved" or "Independence Established" following "Independence Declared"? I think the Soviet occupation was significant enough to deserve its own line. Even when considering the Soviet Union as the successor to the Russian Empire and thus implicitly included in the "Partition" of 1795, I would still argue for the "Soviet Occupation" to be a distinct event from said "Partition." However, I would not be so bold as to unilaterally edit the section, since others may feel differently and perhaps have more solid justifications for not including a "Soviet Occupation" section.
I would also suggest including a line for the "Nazi Occupation" perhaps between lines for separate periods of "Soviet Occupation." I can see this becoming an example of "mission creep" and becoming overly detailed for a section intended for a general overview with broad strokes. However, I still can't see the justification for omitting the "Soviet Occupation" entirely. 66.91.36.8 ( talk) 18:19, 26 February 2022 (UTC) 66.91.36.8 ( talk) 18:08, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
There has been controversy in the past about how to describe the Holocaust in Lithuania in this article but the current description seems unsatisfactory, with the death of 10-15% of Lithuanians compressed into three short and non specific paragraphs. I see there is a specialist article on the subject already (the Holocaust in Lithuania article). Would it make more sense to include a link to that? Monounsaturated ( talk) 07:48, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Литва́ and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 September 6#Литва́ until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. MB 01:43, 6 September 2022 (UTC)