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If Manchester and Liverpool are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both. Tetron76 ( talk) 17:11, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
By your logic "If St Albans and London are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both." Metropolitan areas are different than urban areas and are usually much wider. Eopsid ( talk) 17:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
I have restored the article to sensibility. The point isn't worth discussing, somebody is POV pushing. Until the ONS says it is a single urban area, then it isn't. In some contexts, it is useful to take them together but this is not one of them. See also North West England#Metropolitan areas. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 11:54, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
The division of Liverpool and Birkenhead into separate urban areas is a statistical anomaly due to the fact that the Mersey is over 200m wide. In reality they function as a single urban entity and this should probably be acknowledged in the article. Anyone who doubts this should travel to Birkenhead and examine the (small and very local) scale of its commercial/retail district. By contrast, Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Halifax and Wakefield are separated by many miles of sporadic development and exist as proudly independent settlements, as any examination of their commercial/retail districts would confirm. They might satisfy the strict definition of a contiguous urban area, but they generally don't function as one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.142.105 ( talk) 10:04, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be on the list, According to the Camborne article it has a population of 59,100. 82.33.88.252 ( talk) 01:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
The source this article uses has a lower figure of 39,937. The Camborne article's source gives a 404 error so I am doubtful whether the 59,000 figure is real or not. Using the power of Google I found the working source and it seems the 59,100 figure is for the Camborn, Pool and Redruth Community Network Area which doesn seem the same thing as an urban area but the source does say that it is the largest urban conurbation in Cornwall. Eopsid ( talk) 11:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
When the 2011 census data comes out, I propose that we rename this article as 'List of urban areas in the United Kingdom (2001)' and start a new list for 2011. The new list would take over the title of 'List of urban areas in the United Kingdom' and is not renamed with the 2011 qualifier until 2022 when the 2021 list comes out. My reason for this is that it will be interesting to see where there has been growth and where there has been decline.
Does anyone have the 1991 data? --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 16:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Just in case anyone is interested. The ONS have estimates of the population in 2010 for most of the urban areas listed in this article. See this spreadsheet [1].
Also on this page [2] the ONS talks about when they will release the data for the urban ares. They say that they have yet to finalise the date but it appears it will be some time before or during February 2013.
On a speculative ( OR-y) note. The new data should show that Newport and Cwmbran are now one urban area and so are Basildon and Wickford because they are when looking at Google maps. Eopsid ( talk) 19:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I recently contacted the ONS about when the 2011 census data will be released. They replied that it will be released in Summer 2013 but that they are going to be called Built-up Areas rather than urban areas to "avoid previous inconsistency in terminology with the rural-urban definition, and provide a name that more accurately describes the geography". Eopsid ( talk) 20:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The 2011 census data on built up areas has been released and can be viewed here [3] This is only for England and Wales. So I propose we split this article into 3 sections one for Scotland, one for Northern Ireland and another for England and Wales. What forms part of some built up areas has changed massively from the 2001 data especially for Newport, Cardiff, Sunderland and Tyneside. So I'm not sure a column showing how much the population has changed would be useful. Eopsid ( talk) 13:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
I just updated the article with the 2011 census data. I split it into three sections as I mentioned before. Eopsid ( talk) 19:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
This has been changed back a few times but the largest settlement in the Aldershot Urban Area is Farnborough, with a population of 57,147.
Aldershot has a population of 33,840. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 ( talk) 21:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
This article's souce gives the following populations which differ from your claims which you no doubt got off Aldershot and Farnborough's Wikipedia articles: Aldershot Urban Area 243,344 Aldershot 58,170 Camberley/Frimley 47,123 Farnborough 57,147 Farnham 36,298 Frogmore 9,665 Sandhurst 19,546 Yateley 15,395 Eopsid ( talk) 09:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
This articles listings are incorrect. Rushmoor has a total population of 94,400 at the 2011 census. Farnborough's 2001 figure of 57,000 has increased, athough the figures are not yet released. This leaves 37,000 in Aldershot even if the increases only took place Aldershot, which they haven't as over 2000 homes have been built in Farnborough in the last 5 years. Further to this Farnborough has 8 local council wards to Aldeshots 5 and 3 county council wards to Aldershots 2. In the 2012 local elections 67% of votes cast were cast in Farnborough. Aldershots own wiki page list, it's population correctly in 2001 at 33,840. Farnborough is the largest settlement in the AUA by some distance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 ( talk) 14:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Talk:Largest urban areas of the European Union about whether Demographia.com is a better source for UK Urban Area data than the Office for National Statistics. 19:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
I've arrived to Ramsgate by ferry from Oostende, Belgium quite a few times. I drove a small lorry to Weymouth (Bill of Portland) and exported (from a UK point of view) still alive crabs. I was sometimes difficult to adjust departure from Portland, to a perfect time arrival on the way back. Since I liked the area , I several times drove around while waiting for next the ferry. It semt to me that Ramsgate was builded together with Broadstairs, and Broadstairs with Margate. I've now learned that the Thanet area counts 135.000 inhabitants. So I'm surprised to not be able to find the Thanet area in the list. ( Totally beside the point, I think the welcoming road-sign at the ferries was nice - but in the phrase "Welcome to Ramsgate - please drive on left, I cannot help thinking that the word "please" in this context was a bit funny. ) Boeing720 ( talk) 11:56, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible if we could have a quick top 5 list in the UK on the top of the page? I needed to know and had to scroll down and cross check each table. Thought it would be easier for people like myself to check. If so, that would be awesome. -- Erzan ( talk) 13:03, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
When information from 2011 census will be added?-- Yacatisma ( talk) 19:51, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
The final column on the England/Wales table points to the 2001 census but not to a source that sets out key differences from 2001 to 2011. You shouldn't have to wade through all the details of the two census in order to understand the differences - that would be OR or Synthesis. Is there a source clearly setting out the changes? Eldumpo ( talk) 13:35, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Further to the above I have noticed that most of the table header columns point to a Nomis introduction page. Where is the actual data (including population) for all this information. I have had a quick look and couldn't find it. Please could someone post a direct link to the actual page(s)? Eldumpo ( talk) 08:10, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
In the absence of a directly available source for this list (see above) I suggest we use an alternative to the census. City Population is I believe a reliable source, and it is noted that they only actually order the 13 UK Urban Areas greater than 500k, so there is an argument to only list those, but they do also list (but not order) areas greater than 100k. It is also noted that they combine the data as UK wide [5] which fits better with the title of this article. Having checked their Top 4 against our Top 4 the numbers are the same, which can give some confidence about the use of the source. The use of City Population also ties well with WP:SECONDARY, although it need not be CP if anyone has another reliable source. Appropriate links to the actual census could still remain for completeness. Eldumpo ( talk) 09:02, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi can someone explain a report published by the City Growth commission in February 2014 stating Greater Manchester Metro had a resident census population of 2,894,240 in 2011 calculated by using ONS defined built-up areas found here: http://www.citygrowthcommission.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Metro-Growth-February-2014.pdf and why are those figures not included if they don't belong here where do they belong ?-- Navops47 ( talk) 10:52, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Deano wig: Wigan is in the county of Greater Manchester. It is not in the Greater Manchester Built-up Area which is officially defined differently. The map File:GMBUA2011.png shows what is and is not in the built-up area.
Wigan has its own Wigan Built-up Area which is currently number 43 in the list.-- Dr Greg talk 21:01, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
An anonymous editor keeps seeking to remove any mention of Ellesmere Port from the ONS-defined Birkenhead urban area. I keep reverting them. The issue is not whether Ellesmere Port is "really" part of the Birkenhead urban area or not. The issue is whether ONS define it as part of the Birkenhead urban area - which they do. The criteria for the ONS definition may seem strange, but they are logical - based on the distance between built-up areas, which can be treated as contiguous. What should remain in this article is the definition of the Birkenhead urban area as it is defined by ONS, not what any individual thinks it should be. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 11:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
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It hopelessly inaccurate. EPSON got it right. This article has Liverpool at over 800,000, omitting Birkenhead and Wallasy, on the opposite river bank, while Manchester is 2.6 million. These have it right List of metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom. 2.216.88.102 ( talk) 10:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
The urban area has a population of 118,200 according to its own wiki page but is not in the list (where it would have been 66th). CALDlykLIJ ( talk) 08:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
I have just deleted a number of cases where places clearly outside London [eg, Reading/Wokinghan] had been shown as in the London Metropolitan Area. (I have reverted my deletions pending discussion). I don't believe that we have a reliable source for what is or isn't in a "
Metropolitan Area", whereas there is a clear definition of
Larger urban zone. If we mean
commuter belt, then surely we should say so. What I'm really saying is that I consider the term "Metropolitan Area" too vague and too open to POV/OR.
Comments?--
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 11:49, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Can anyone justify the claimed figure for the population of Leicester? According to ONS (the only reliable source) the population as of the 2011 census was 443,760. [1] -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 11:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
References
Just to close out this discussion, I confirm that the original figure for Leicester was correct. My challenge was based on incorrect data due to a fault in NOMIS and was thus invalid. As noted below, NOMIS have repaired access to the overall Built-up Area figures. It now says: "There were 508,916 usual residents as at Census day 2011". [3]
References
Few of the figures given for built-up area populations are cited. I have found at least one so far (
#Leicester above) that doesn't match the ONS data. In the past, it has seemed (to me at least) very difficult to extract this data from Nomis but they appear to have made a change that makes it a lot more accessible. So if anyone wants to spend the time citing each entry, here is how to do it:
Questions? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 13:26, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
NOMIS have fixed the error that broke E3400nnnn codes, so it is again possible to use them and any existing citations are valid again. However as yet there is no easy way (sing the 'easy access' functions of the website) to find out the code for a given urban area. This needs more work and is planned. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 09:50, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
NOMIS have fully repaired their system so that it gives the correct data for 'Greater Xxxxxx" Built-up Area (as well as the 1970s (?) boundaries Built-up Sub-area). (revised 20 July 2019):
Tested for Leicester and Bristol but I won't apply to the article to allow rather more time than I did last time for gremlins to emerge. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 16:04, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
J mareeswaran, slightly concerned that your edits are based upon "feels" rather than facts. I haven't had chance to review the changes as yet, but at the very least your change to "Greater Merseyside" is very much incorrect. Your changes do not appear to be based upon any given source, and you haven't explained the criteria for change. Entities such as the Liverpool City Region, and Leeds City Region are very different to Metropolitan areas for instance. I would suggest you explain your changes here because at present I am considering reverting prior to the changes made 16th August onwards. Koncorde ( talk) 13:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
We have had multiple discussions above and elsewhere about the ESPON metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom, which is piped from "Corresponding Metropolitan Area". In a nutshell, ESPON devised a structure based on 2001 UK census data in a way that it could compare and contrast with very broadly similar census data across Europe. In doing so, it made (and had to make) delineation decisions that do not match those used by the ONS for the 2011 census. So we have mix of (munged) 2001 data and 2011 data, which is poor practice. IMO, the column is misleading to a modern readership and should be deleted.
[Full disclosure: I do not and never have lived in any of the larger conurbations and have no ulterior motive than to make Wikipedia as good as it can be].
Comments before I delete? --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 23:45, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
At the moment, the lead says that citypopulation.de is th main source because it is more accessible. That was certainly true five years ago but it is no longer so. Nomis is now a far preferable source, for two reasons.
So I propose that we lose the reference to citypopulation.de and let the citations take the strain. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 19:43, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Following on from the decision to deprecatede-emphasise citypopulation.de above, readers may find this 'how to' useful?
Questions or comment? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 18:39, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
The master list for Built Up Areas & Sub Divisions can be found here. There are a number of sites that provide breakdowns of subdivisions, but the clearest one to read is this one for me which gives the mapping area in addition to a short list of the SD's with their relevant division codes for example Slough which has 5 BUASD of its own. Koncorde ( talk) 20:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
Poyle has now become part of Slough. Lennonfan1 ( talk) 02:39, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Poyle being now part of Slough borders LB Hillingdon and is contigious apart from m25 motorway. Lennonfan1 ( talk) 13:38, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Slough now stretches as far as Poyle which is contigious with Longford in London. Lennonfan1 ( talk) 13:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
For the 2021 census:
Chocolateediter ( talk) 23:00, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
The list in this article is completely obsolete now that the full picture from the 2021 census has been processed and uploaded to the source at citypopulation.de Just thought I'd leave a message here if anyone wanted to discuss before I change all the data to the 2021 version? Dflint0505 ( talk) 22:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, some other urban area articles like the US's go down to 50k instead of 100k as a threshold. Is this another change that could be implemented here? Dflint0505 ( talk) 22:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
pretty obvious that this is one urban area. Pbell99 ( talk) 17:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I've renamed the article, I thought it was too easy. Turns out I did a capital C in conurbation and the un-capped version is already a redirect, so sorry I don't know how to fix it. Chocolateediter ( talk) 15:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
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If Manchester and Liverpool are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both. Tetron76 ( talk) 17:11, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
By your logic "If St Albans and London are treated as separate conurbations I can't see why the two cities are considered as the same metropoiltan area. This is surely a mistake even if it is possible to have a place that could be regarded as both." Metropolitan areas are different than urban areas and are usually much wider. Eopsid ( talk) 17:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
I have restored the article to sensibility. The point isn't worth discussing, somebody is POV pushing. Until the ONS says it is a single urban area, then it isn't. In some contexts, it is useful to take them together but this is not one of them. See also North West England#Metropolitan areas. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 11:54, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
The division of Liverpool and Birkenhead into separate urban areas is a statistical anomaly due to the fact that the Mersey is over 200m wide. In reality they function as a single urban entity and this should probably be acknowledged in the article. Anyone who doubts this should travel to Birkenhead and examine the (small and very local) scale of its commercial/retail district. By contrast, Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Halifax and Wakefield are separated by many miles of sporadic development and exist as proudly independent settlements, as any examination of their commercial/retail districts would confirm. They might satisfy the strict definition of a contiguous urban area, but they generally don't function as one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.142.105 ( talk) 10:04, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be on the list, According to the Camborne article it has a population of 59,100. 82.33.88.252 ( talk) 01:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
The source this article uses has a lower figure of 39,937. The Camborne article's source gives a 404 error so I am doubtful whether the 59,000 figure is real or not. Using the power of Google I found the working source and it seems the 59,100 figure is for the Camborn, Pool and Redruth Community Network Area which doesn seem the same thing as an urban area but the source does say that it is the largest urban conurbation in Cornwall. Eopsid ( talk) 11:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
When the 2011 census data comes out, I propose that we rename this article as 'List of urban areas in the United Kingdom (2001)' and start a new list for 2011. The new list would take over the title of 'List of urban areas in the United Kingdom' and is not renamed with the 2011 qualifier until 2022 when the 2021 list comes out. My reason for this is that it will be interesting to see where there has been growth and where there has been decline.
Does anyone have the 1991 data? --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 16:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Just in case anyone is interested. The ONS have estimates of the population in 2010 for most of the urban areas listed in this article. See this spreadsheet [1].
Also on this page [2] the ONS talks about when they will release the data for the urban ares. They say that they have yet to finalise the date but it appears it will be some time before or during February 2013.
On a speculative ( OR-y) note. The new data should show that Newport and Cwmbran are now one urban area and so are Basildon and Wickford because they are when looking at Google maps. Eopsid ( talk) 19:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I recently contacted the ONS about when the 2011 census data will be released. They replied that it will be released in Summer 2013 but that they are going to be called Built-up Areas rather than urban areas to "avoid previous inconsistency in terminology with the rural-urban definition, and provide a name that more accurately describes the geography". Eopsid ( talk) 20:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The 2011 census data on built up areas has been released and can be viewed here [3] This is only for England and Wales. So I propose we split this article into 3 sections one for Scotland, one for Northern Ireland and another for England and Wales. What forms part of some built up areas has changed massively from the 2001 data especially for Newport, Cardiff, Sunderland and Tyneside. So I'm not sure a column showing how much the population has changed would be useful. Eopsid ( talk) 13:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
I just updated the article with the 2011 census data. I split it into three sections as I mentioned before. Eopsid ( talk) 19:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
This has been changed back a few times but the largest settlement in the Aldershot Urban Area is Farnborough, with a population of 57,147.
Aldershot has a population of 33,840. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 ( talk) 21:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
This article's souce gives the following populations which differ from your claims which you no doubt got off Aldershot and Farnborough's Wikipedia articles: Aldershot Urban Area 243,344 Aldershot 58,170 Camberley/Frimley 47,123 Farnborough 57,147 Farnham 36,298 Frogmore 9,665 Sandhurst 19,546 Yateley 15,395 Eopsid ( talk) 09:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
This articles listings are incorrect. Rushmoor has a total population of 94,400 at the 2011 census. Farnborough's 2001 figure of 57,000 has increased, athough the figures are not yet released. This leaves 37,000 in Aldershot even if the increases only took place Aldershot, which they haven't as over 2000 homes have been built in Farnborough in the last 5 years. Further to this Farnborough has 8 local council wards to Aldeshots 5 and 3 county council wards to Aldershots 2. In the 2012 local elections 67% of votes cast were cast in Farnborough. Aldershots own wiki page list, it's population correctly in 2001 at 33,840. Farnborough is the largest settlement in the AUA by some distance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.26.73 ( talk) 14:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Talk:Largest urban areas of the European Union about whether Demographia.com is a better source for UK Urban Area data than the Office for National Statistics. 19:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
I've arrived to Ramsgate by ferry from Oostende, Belgium quite a few times. I drove a small lorry to Weymouth (Bill of Portland) and exported (from a UK point of view) still alive crabs. I was sometimes difficult to adjust departure from Portland, to a perfect time arrival on the way back. Since I liked the area , I several times drove around while waiting for next the ferry. It semt to me that Ramsgate was builded together with Broadstairs, and Broadstairs with Margate. I've now learned that the Thanet area counts 135.000 inhabitants. So I'm surprised to not be able to find the Thanet area in the list. ( Totally beside the point, I think the welcoming road-sign at the ferries was nice - but in the phrase "Welcome to Ramsgate - please drive on left, I cannot help thinking that the word "please" in this context was a bit funny. ) Boeing720 ( talk) 11:56, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible if we could have a quick top 5 list in the UK on the top of the page? I needed to know and had to scroll down and cross check each table. Thought it would be easier for people like myself to check. If so, that would be awesome. -- Erzan ( talk) 13:03, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
When information from 2011 census will be added?-- Yacatisma ( talk) 19:51, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
The final column on the England/Wales table points to the 2001 census but not to a source that sets out key differences from 2001 to 2011. You shouldn't have to wade through all the details of the two census in order to understand the differences - that would be OR or Synthesis. Is there a source clearly setting out the changes? Eldumpo ( talk) 13:35, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Further to the above I have noticed that most of the table header columns point to a Nomis introduction page. Where is the actual data (including population) for all this information. I have had a quick look and couldn't find it. Please could someone post a direct link to the actual page(s)? Eldumpo ( talk) 08:10, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
In the absence of a directly available source for this list (see above) I suggest we use an alternative to the census. City Population is I believe a reliable source, and it is noted that they only actually order the 13 UK Urban Areas greater than 500k, so there is an argument to only list those, but they do also list (but not order) areas greater than 100k. It is also noted that they combine the data as UK wide [5] which fits better with the title of this article. Having checked their Top 4 against our Top 4 the numbers are the same, which can give some confidence about the use of the source. The use of City Population also ties well with WP:SECONDARY, although it need not be CP if anyone has another reliable source. Appropriate links to the actual census could still remain for completeness. Eldumpo ( talk) 09:02, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi can someone explain a report published by the City Growth commission in February 2014 stating Greater Manchester Metro had a resident census population of 2,894,240 in 2011 calculated by using ONS defined built-up areas found here: http://www.citygrowthcommission.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Metro-Growth-February-2014.pdf and why are those figures not included if they don't belong here where do they belong ?-- Navops47 ( talk) 10:52, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Deano wig: Wigan is in the county of Greater Manchester. It is not in the Greater Manchester Built-up Area which is officially defined differently. The map File:GMBUA2011.png shows what is and is not in the built-up area.
Wigan has its own Wigan Built-up Area which is currently number 43 in the list.-- Dr Greg talk 21:01, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
An anonymous editor keeps seeking to remove any mention of Ellesmere Port from the ONS-defined Birkenhead urban area. I keep reverting them. The issue is not whether Ellesmere Port is "really" part of the Birkenhead urban area or not. The issue is whether ONS define it as part of the Birkenhead urban area - which they do. The criteria for the ONS definition may seem strange, but they are logical - based on the distance between built-up areas, which can be treated as contiguous. What should remain in this article is the definition of the Birkenhead urban area as it is defined by ONS, not what any individual thinks it should be. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 11:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
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It hopelessly inaccurate. EPSON got it right. This article has Liverpool at over 800,000, omitting Birkenhead and Wallasy, on the opposite river bank, while Manchester is 2.6 million. These have it right List of metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom. 2.216.88.102 ( talk) 10:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
The urban area has a population of 118,200 according to its own wiki page but is not in the list (where it would have been 66th). CALDlykLIJ ( talk) 08:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
I have just deleted a number of cases where places clearly outside London [eg, Reading/Wokinghan] had been shown as in the London Metropolitan Area. (I have reverted my deletions pending discussion). I don't believe that we have a reliable source for what is or isn't in a "
Metropolitan Area", whereas there is a clear definition of
Larger urban zone. If we mean
commuter belt, then surely we should say so. What I'm really saying is that I consider the term "Metropolitan Area" too vague and too open to POV/OR.
Comments?--
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 11:49, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
Can anyone justify the claimed figure for the population of Leicester? According to ONS (the only reliable source) the population as of the 2011 census was 443,760. [1] -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 11:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
References
Just to close out this discussion, I confirm that the original figure for Leicester was correct. My challenge was based on incorrect data due to a fault in NOMIS and was thus invalid. As noted below, NOMIS have repaired access to the overall Built-up Area figures. It now says: "There were 508,916 usual residents as at Census day 2011". [3]
References
Few of the figures given for built-up area populations are cited. I have found at least one so far (
#Leicester above) that doesn't match the ONS data. In the past, it has seemed (to me at least) very difficult to extract this data from Nomis but they appear to have made a change that makes it a lot more accessible. So if anyone wants to spend the time citing each entry, here is how to do it:
Questions? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 13:26, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
NOMIS have fixed the error that broke E3400nnnn codes, so it is again possible to use them and any existing citations are valid again. However as yet there is no easy way (sing the 'easy access' functions of the website) to find out the code for a given urban area. This needs more work and is planned. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 09:50, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
NOMIS have fully repaired their system so that it gives the correct data for 'Greater Xxxxxx" Built-up Area (as well as the 1970s (?) boundaries Built-up Sub-area). (revised 20 July 2019):
Tested for Leicester and Bristol but I won't apply to the article to allow rather more time than I did last time for gremlins to emerge. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 16:04, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
J mareeswaran, slightly concerned that your edits are based upon "feels" rather than facts. I haven't had chance to review the changes as yet, but at the very least your change to "Greater Merseyside" is very much incorrect. Your changes do not appear to be based upon any given source, and you haven't explained the criteria for change. Entities such as the Liverpool City Region, and Leeds City Region are very different to Metropolitan areas for instance. I would suggest you explain your changes here because at present I am considering reverting prior to the changes made 16th August onwards. Koncorde ( talk) 13:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
We have had multiple discussions above and elsewhere about the ESPON metropolitan areas in the United Kingdom, which is piped from "Corresponding Metropolitan Area". In a nutshell, ESPON devised a structure based on 2001 UK census data in a way that it could compare and contrast with very broadly similar census data across Europe. In doing so, it made (and had to make) delineation decisions that do not match those used by the ONS for the 2011 census. So we have mix of (munged) 2001 data and 2011 data, which is poor practice. IMO, the column is misleading to a modern readership and should be deleted.
[Full disclosure: I do not and never have lived in any of the larger conurbations and have no ulterior motive than to make Wikipedia as good as it can be].
Comments before I delete? --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 23:45, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
At the moment, the lead says that citypopulation.de is th main source because it is more accessible. That was certainly true five years ago but it is no longer so. Nomis is now a far preferable source, for two reasons.
So I propose that we lose the reference to citypopulation.de and let the citations take the strain. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 19:43, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Following on from the decision to deprecatede-emphasise citypopulation.de above, readers may find this 'how to' useful?
Questions or comment? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 18:39, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
The master list for Built Up Areas & Sub Divisions can be found here. There are a number of sites that provide breakdowns of subdivisions, but the clearest one to read is this one for me which gives the mapping area in addition to a short list of the SD's with their relevant division codes for example Slough which has 5 BUASD of its own. Koncorde ( talk) 20:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
Poyle has now become part of Slough. Lennonfan1 ( talk) 02:39, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Poyle being now part of Slough borders LB Hillingdon and is contigious apart from m25 motorway. Lennonfan1 ( talk) 13:38, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
Slough now stretches as far as Poyle which is contigious with Longford in London. Lennonfan1 ( talk) 13:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
For the 2021 census:
Chocolateediter ( talk) 23:00, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
The list in this article is completely obsolete now that the full picture from the 2021 census has been processed and uploaded to the source at citypopulation.de Just thought I'd leave a message here if anyone wanted to discuss before I change all the data to the 2021 version? Dflint0505 ( talk) 22:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, some other urban area articles like the US's go down to 50k instead of 100k as a threshold. Is this another change that could be implemented here? Dflint0505 ( talk) 22:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
pretty obvious that this is one urban area. Pbell99 ( talk) 17:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I've renamed the article, I thought it was too easy. Turns out I did a capital C in conurbation and the un-capped version is already a redirect, so sorry I don't know how to fix it. Chocolateediter ( talk) 15:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)