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This list contains many Anglicized Portuguese names that should be converted back to the actually Portuguese names as is now standard practice among historians. Also it would be good to add more of these kings African names. Rmhermen 00:53, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with using the anglicized names, it is very common for monarch of the period.--- moyogo 10:21, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
This list was found in Histoire générale du Congo, by Isidore Ndaywel è Nziem. The NB about it says "Batsikama fait intervenir également les éléments de la tradition orale en même temps qu'il transcrit les prénoms des rois en langues Kongo", meaning the Kongo names come from oral tradition. The names are overlapping with the Portuguese or the anglicized ones: Nanyele = Daniel, Luvwalu = Alvaro, Funsu = Afonso, Dyoko = Diogo, Bolozi = Ambrosio, etc.--- moyogo 10:21, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
I have added an new list at the end of the two presently posted. My list is based on a careful reading of all the extant manuscript and printed sources, including some that are not widely known, a summary of which is found in my introduction. I believe it to be authoratative and would like to make it the primary list.
I have given the names in Portuguese orthography, as this is the one that they themselves used in their substantial correspondence, most kings who ruled for any time left at least one letter. I have modernized their Kikongo names using the orthography in common use in Kikongo language historical texts such as Kinkulu kia Nsi Eto.
Props to Shiraz4 for the organizing of the Kongo kings into houses. However, there are errors in the assignment which I have sought to correct. In the seventeenth century, it's clear that the acession of Alvaro I marks the advent of the house of Kwilu, and the other houses are also well documented. For the later 18th and 19th century we need to do more research before we can assign house membership, as, although sources of the time refer to two or three houses, they don't always name them (this would be the Castello de Vide and Raimondo da Dicomano reports). Hints about this are found in traditions, as recorded in Nkutama a mvila za makanda, and Kinkulu kia Nsi Eto, and their names might still be recoverable. However, to do this would be to provide original research and until that is published it seems premature to put it in Wikipedia. I asked about these matters when I did field research at Mbanza Kongo in 2002 but no one seems to know about this these days.
I have tried to fix the lists for the late seventeenth century, but have a lot of problems in grouping the kings. The lineage idea is intersting, but the division into lineage dynasties doesn't really work. We need to come up with a better way to show this information, right now there are still errors in presentation.
I do not think that the description of Palmares as having been founded by a branch of the Kongo royal family to be accurate in any way, and I plan to delete this section.
Most of the slaves brought to Brazil during the formation of Palmares were from the Kimbundu-speaking parts of Angola, not the Kingdom of Kongo. This is demonstrated by the Kimbundu form of names, such as ngana (=lord in Kimbundu) as a title. The local name of the kingdom of Palmares was Angola Janga, which is both Kimbundu and clearly refers to Angola and not Kongo or Congo. Several Portuguese reports tell us that that the language spoken in Palmares was Kimbundu (or the "lingua de Angola"). When the Portuguese governor of Angola exiled the puppet branch of the Ndongo ruling family, following their siezure of Pungo Andongo in 1671, they deliberately did not send them to Pernambuco for fear that they would escape to Palmares and be recognized there as kings.
I have no doubt that some Kongos were found in Palmares, even quite a considerable number, but there is no evidence in the written record, either in Recife, in Lisbon, or in Coimbra, to support any part of the claims in this entry.
I will wait for about ten days, and then, barring further discussion, delete this section.
![]() | The related Category:Rulers of the Kingdom of Kongo has been nominated for merging with Category:Manikongo of Kongo. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. |
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello, can someone help me.
There are drawings (Roi de Congo and Roi de Loango) by Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur that were each posted next to Pedro and Afonso names.
LACMA (Los Angeles County Museum of Art) didn ´t even say they are Pedro I Nkanga a Mvemba and Afonso I Mvemba a Nzinga in descriptions. https://collections.lacma.org/node/208546 https://collections.lacma.org/node/208545
https://books.google.com/books/about/Encyclop%C3%A9die_des_voyages.html?hl=fr&id=2D0TAAAAQAAJ Encyclopédie des voyages, Volume 1 by Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur : Nothing indicated that they are Afonso and Pedro (page 51 and previous pages). Somebody040404 ( talk) 15:15, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
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This list contains many Anglicized Portuguese names that should be converted back to the actually Portuguese names as is now standard practice among historians. Also it would be good to add more of these kings African names. Rmhermen 00:53, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with using the anglicized names, it is very common for monarch of the period.--- moyogo 10:21, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
This list was found in Histoire générale du Congo, by Isidore Ndaywel è Nziem. The NB about it says "Batsikama fait intervenir également les éléments de la tradition orale en même temps qu'il transcrit les prénoms des rois en langues Kongo", meaning the Kongo names come from oral tradition. The names are overlapping with the Portuguese or the anglicized ones: Nanyele = Daniel, Luvwalu = Alvaro, Funsu = Afonso, Dyoko = Diogo, Bolozi = Ambrosio, etc.--- moyogo 10:21, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
I have added an new list at the end of the two presently posted. My list is based on a careful reading of all the extant manuscript and printed sources, including some that are not widely known, a summary of which is found in my introduction. I believe it to be authoratative and would like to make it the primary list.
I have given the names in Portuguese orthography, as this is the one that they themselves used in their substantial correspondence, most kings who ruled for any time left at least one letter. I have modernized their Kikongo names using the orthography in common use in Kikongo language historical texts such as Kinkulu kia Nsi Eto.
Props to Shiraz4 for the organizing of the Kongo kings into houses. However, there are errors in the assignment which I have sought to correct. In the seventeenth century, it's clear that the acession of Alvaro I marks the advent of the house of Kwilu, and the other houses are also well documented. For the later 18th and 19th century we need to do more research before we can assign house membership, as, although sources of the time refer to two or three houses, they don't always name them (this would be the Castello de Vide and Raimondo da Dicomano reports). Hints about this are found in traditions, as recorded in Nkutama a mvila za makanda, and Kinkulu kia Nsi Eto, and their names might still be recoverable. However, to do this would be to provide original research and until that is published it seems premature to put it in Wikipedia. I asked about these matters when I did field research at Mbanza Kongo in 2002 but no one seems to know about this these days.
I have tried to fix the lists for the late seventeenth century, but have a lot of problems in grouping the kings. The lineage idea is intersting, but the division into lineage dynasties doesn't really work. We need to come up with a better way to show this information, right now there are still errors in presentation.
I do not think that the description of Palmares as having been founded by a branch of the Kongo royal family to be accurate in any way, and I plan to delete this section.
Most of the slaves brought to Brazil during the formation of Palmares were from the Kimbundu-speaking parts of Angola, not the Kingdom of Kongo. This is demonstrated by the Kimbundu form of names, such as ngana (=lord in Kimbundu) as a title. The local name of the kingdom of Palmares was Angola Janga, which is both Kimbundu and clearly refers to Angola and not Kongo or Congo. Several Portuguese reports tell us that that the language spoken in Palmares was Kimbundu (or the "lingua de Angola"). When the Portuguese governor of Angola exiled the puppet branch of the Ndongo ruling family, following their siezure of Pungo Andongo in 1671, they deliberately did not send them to Pernambuco for fear that they would escape to Palmares and be recognized there as kings.
I have no doubt that some Kongos were found in Palmares, even quite a considerable number, but there is no evidence in the written record, either in Recife, in Lisbon, or in Coimbra, to support any part of the claims in this entry.
I will wait for about ten days, and then, barring further discussion, delete this section.
![]() | The related Category:Rulers of the Kingdom of Kongo has been nominated for merging with Category:Manikongo of Kongo. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. |
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:23, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello, can someone help me.
There are drawings (Roi de Congo and Roi de Loango) by Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur that were each posted next to Pedro and Afonso names.
LACMA (Los Angeles County Museum of Art) didn ´t even say they are Pedro I Nkanga a Mvemba and Afonso I Mvemba a Nzinga in descriptions. https://collections.lacma.org/node/208546 https://collections.lacma.org/node/208545
https://books.google.com/books/about/Encyclop%C3%A9die_des_voyages.html?hl=fr&id=2D0TAAAAQAAJ Encyclopédie des voyages, Volume 1 by Jacques Grasset de Saint-Sauveur : Nothing indicated that they are Afonso and Pedro (page 51 and previous pages). Somebody040404 ( talk) 15:15, 29 November 2020 (UTC)