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This page should not have been split from the article, Retronym. It should be re-merged. The person who split it has given no reason for doing so. Where there are valid reasons for splitting (excess size or divergent uses of the topic name), relevant sections of the original talk page should be copied and pasted, as I have done below. In this case the entire talk page of Retronym refers to the List of retronyms article.— Copey 2 09:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
"Vinyl record: A term that arose to distinguish 33⅓- and 45-rpm phonograph records (LPs and 45s) from the compact discs (CDs) that have since replaced them for nearly all physical records and record albums."
I don't know that this is appropriate for this article. I believe that vinyl (PVC) records were called vinyl records when they first came into popular use - so as to distinguish them from other (generally earlier) phonograph disks made of other materials like shellac, rubber, metal, glass, etc. So yeah - not really a retronym. As hard as it may be for us to believe now a days, the vinyl record was at one point a technological inovation over earlier forms of recording. :)
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_record#Early_history for more background... -- Blackcats 03:10, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Re: "Rotary-dial telephone"-- For a time these were the newer, more modern variety of telephone, while they were replacing the previously usual standard type of telephone. -- Hello Central, gimme Infrogmation
When I added the retronymic use of "Sr." (senior) for fathers who (foolishly and egotistically, IMHO) name their sons after themselves, I found myself wondering if there are any famous uses of "Sr." for women. I can't think of any, nor can I think of any "feminine" substitute for this practice. It isn't because of lack of need. (My own family includes three generations of Marys and two of Carolyns, as well as four Davids! My Marys have nicknames to distinguish themselves, and the Carolyns just get confused. Who ever invented this practice?!) I suppose it's less frequently necessarily in societies where women adopt the surnames of their husbands when they marry, or where they acquire compound or hyphenated names, but surely this comes up from time to time. Someone famous must have dealt with this issue! -- Jeff Q 09:03, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
Would the term "Catholic" be a retronym, since the Catholic church only started using that term after the advent of Protestantism? ☞spencer195 03:46, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
The term was certainly in use by the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) since it appears in the Creed there agreed. Mark O'Sullivan 11:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The earliest extant use of the term Catholic was in the early 2nd century by Ignatius of Antioch, who must have known the apostles, in a letter written shortly before his martyrdom. Dates for this are as various as 107 and 115 AD.— Copey 2 09:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
What about charcoal? Before the advent of the then so-called "sea-coal" in the Middle Ages, charcoal should have been generally known as just "coal". -- Cendol 10:19, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
"Sea Coal" is coal from underwater deposits washed up on a beach.--RKH
The acoustic guitar is distinguished from the classical guitar in that it has metal strings. I assume that this is the origin of the name, not a retronym after the electric guitar. — Asbestos | Talk 08:37, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Would the posthumous names entry really be a retronym? It's a name awarded after death, not a name added to distinguish it from something modern.
Is Catherine of Aragon a retronym? I suppose she was called "of Aragon" under certain circumstances to begin with, but the period sources I've seen tend to just call her "Queen Catherine" (even in treatises about the annullment of her marriage to Henry VIII) I assume "of Aragon" started to become a common epithet for her once Henry married Catherine Howard and Catherine Parre. If anyone has a period source, preferably one in Latin, that refers to her witih her epithet, I would like to see it. -- Iustinus 19:18, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Wouldn't classic rock and classical music be retronys? I doubt Mozart called himself "classical".
There were several names around galant music Baroque music, and Empfindsamkeit. They all are under the umbrella of "classical", not referred to their names of that period typically now.
I believe that this item ought to be qualified as US usage. In the UK, "fast-food" outlets are generally referred to as "cafés" despite the best efforts of one major US chain to dignify its establishments, and "take-away" [southern England] or "carry-out" [Scotland and Northern Ireland] facilities are generally referred to as "shops". Mark O'Sullivan 11:55, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Since today the name "George Bush" is more commonly used to mean the son rather than the father, could the adding of the "H.W." or saying "George Bush Senior" be considered a retronym? I know someone mentioned that "Senior" is retronymic, but does the same apply to the later-added middle intials?
Would this be an example of a retronym? As "soccer" becomes more popular and Americans watch European "football", the term "American Football" seems to be more appropriate. I heard the term quite often while living in Europe and even the Americans started using it.
Hi, Flapdragon, please explain why for example, "hard cider" isn't a retronym. Don't just remove it, if you have a good reason why you have deleted it, you should explain. It's not at all clear why you have deleted it. Dieter Simon 22:53, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Would Feudal count? Conglacio 04:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Mahjong (among other spellings) is actually a four-player game, but it seems that when people talk of it they often actually mean mahjong solitaire. As such, there ought to be a term that's used to clarify that one is talking of the four-player game. Assuming that it really does predate the solitaire game, then if there's a term in significant use that is understood to mean specifically the four-player game, then it could go on the list. -- Smjg 13:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Film camera doesn't belong here. There was more than one type of camera before digital - plate cameras, for a start, did not (and do not) use film.
This page would be better if there were dated sources for the claimed retronyms. -- Pfold 07:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
What about analogue Camera?
Deleted. The term pocket watch existed 2 centuries before wrist watch. Don't people check these things in a dictionary before posting them here? -- Pfold 08:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
This a retronym? When did shellfish first exist? I thought they existed before fish did. Though if so then there can't have been a huge gap - apparently [2] fish were invented 510 mya, 32 my into the Cambrian. -- Smjg 14:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Was there really any point in splitting this article into Retronym, consisting of 3 short paragraphs and List of retronyms, with the bulk of the original? In the meantime, I will paste this talk page with the List article.— Copey 2 09:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
could have been used in contrast to mainframes, so is it really a retronym? 75.16.157.237 04:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
From [3] we have "land ambulance". Morwen - Talk 14:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I recently read that the term " vegetarian" originally referred to what we would now call a vegan. Are lacto-ovo-vegetarians a more recent invention - or did they exist from the beginning (at least of human vegetarianism), just not referred to as vegetarians? (Moreover, where did food versus other animal exploitations fall into the original equation?) -- Smjg 14:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
The fountain pen was definitely so called before the invention of the ball point -- to distinguish it from the dip pen, which probably is a better example of a retronym. One good example is the 1892 joke reproduced at http://www.kamakurapens.com/Humor/TheFountainPenWasInventedByTheDevil.html and I am certain there are amny others out there. It should probably be stricken from this list. -- Jeff Lipschultz 03:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I suspect that bar soap was an innovation relative to soap flakes, but that's only a guess on my part. As for regular coffee, can we simply say that regular is a common retronym-forming adjective for just about anything? — Tamfang 05:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
The 1980-1988 conflict between Iran and Iraq was often referred to as "the Gulf War" (or the "Persian Gulf War") while it was going on. Bicycles originally had a large front wheel and a small rear wheel. After the introduction of the "safety bicycle" with two equal-size wheels, the type with unmatched wheels became known as the "penny-farthing," among other names. Similarly, the invention of the safety razor and its subsequent popularity generated a need to rename the old-style blade as a "straight razor." --RKH
How embarassing--I knew that. Precision is important, as I tell my students. On a related note, the large-small bicycle became known as an "ordinary bicycle" once the safety bicycle appeared. I'm not sure when the term "penny-farthing" was coined. --RKH
I can only disagree with the listing of these two.
"Known simply as "people" before transport was invented" - surely transport (in the form of horses, horse-drawn vehicles and the like) came about long before the English language as we know it did. So when could "people" have specifically meant pedestrians? Moreover, aren't people still people even when they're not on the move?
And as for "heterosexual", homosexuals and heterosexuals alike must have existed for centuries before there were names for them. -- Smjg 18:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The terms "homosexual" and "heterosexual" were invented at the same time, as two sides of the same coinage. - 161.57.55.36 18:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Isn't this also used in order to distinguish between the biological parent and the 'legal' parent, i.e. if the biological father is not the 'legal' father because of adultery?-- Soylentyellow 17:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
In how much of the world are the given terms used? The only kinds of milk that we Brits are generally acquainted with are full-cream, semi-skimmed and skimmed. (We do have the term whole milk, I think more often on labels than in everyday conversation.) According to Delia Online, full-cream is 3.5% and semi-skimmed is 1.5-1.8%. How can we best consolidate these facts or, failing that, rephrase it to be more geographically neutral? -- Smjg 23:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The part about SDTV possibly coming in to use is quite outdated imho. At least here in Sweden we separate SD from HD, at least in nerdy/semi-nerdy circles. /per
They were Milk Chocolate m&m's during my childhood. Never to my knowledge have they been called Plain m&m's, at least here in the UK. Besides, dark chocolate is often known as plain chocolate over here, and so the name "Plain m&m's" would have been confusing. I think it's just as likely that renaming Plain m&m's to Milk Chocolate m&m's in some unspecified country was a move to give the product a consistent name across the English-speaking world. -- Smjg 14:05, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The M&Ms in the dark brown packages were described on the wrapper as "Plain" for decades in the USA. I remember reading newspaper stories when they removed the word "plain" from the packaging and replaced it with "milk chocolate." I didn't think it made sense at the time, but in retrospect it does since now there is a "dark chocolate" variety (purple wrapper). The newspaper article suggested Mars didn't want to use a word with negative connotations (one could argue if "plain" qualifies) to describe their product. — tuc 5 February 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.250.95 ( talk) 13:19, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
This article has many US only examples and some UK only examples. What about Canadian, Australian, or non-Anglosphere examples? I am neither from the US or the UK, but there are definitely examples from outside these two countries. Johnny Au ( talk) 19:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
If User:Arthur Rubin hadn't reverted User:Wavelength's additions of "capital letters" and so on, I'd be considering it, because they imply an over-simplification of the history of our alphabet. — Tamfang ( talk) 16:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I moved this huge list here for merging, because it just clutters the main subject article. Locador ( talk) 17:46, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The designation of a period or of an artistic or literary style as " classical" is invariably a retronym; such a designation is given only retroactively, when the heritage of the period in question has been judged and found worthy by a later culture.
Careless use of retronyms in historical fiction can cause anachronisms. For example, referring to the "First World War" in a piece set in 1935 would be incorrect — "The Great War" or "14-18 War" were commonly employed descriptions prior to World War II. Anachronistic use of a retronym could also betray a modern document forgery (such as a description of the First Battle of Bull Run before the second had taken place).
safire1
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The first mass-distributed films were monochrome and silent. As the technology developed:
Television has prompted several retronyms:
Telephone calls were originally completed through the assistance of an operator at a switchboard. When self-dialing service became available, the older service was referred to as "operator assisted" dialing. Later, tone-based dialing prompted the older service to be retronymed "pulse" dialing. The older phones were also referred to as "rotary dial" phones, to differentiate from the newer phones with a keypad.
The advent of digital telephony services such as ISDN and ADSL led to analog services being described as " plain old telephone service" (or simply "POTS"), primarily within the telephone industry. As mobile telephones have become prevalent, many consumers have come to refer to POTS as "land line" phone service citation needed – although calls placed on such a line may traverse wireless links such as microwave and satellite.
Is the term cabinet minister a retronym?-- ماني a.k.a. [[User:Mani1]] ( talk) 00:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Could some examples be given of when this term has been used, I have never heard Nintendo use it or any enthusiasts. Drkirby ( talk) 20:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
No one calls it that, or at least not enough people for it to be common enough for a list like this. Maybe some nuts somewhere call it that. 76.226.223.3 ( talk) 22:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
How is "DOS mode" a renaming of the operating system "DOS"? Doesn't seem like a retronym to me. If you install DOS on your machine, then you call it DOS. If you use DOS from within the Windows operating system, then it's called "DOS mode", since it's merely a feature of the extant OS, rather than a distinct OS -- or something like that. In any case, standalone DOS is never called "DOS mode", so this isn't a retronym. Phiwum ( talk) 08:16, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Seaport appeared in the English language in the 1590's.
[4] Since airports didn't exist then, seaport can't be a retronym for airport. It should be deleted from this list, unless its inclusion is supported.
John Harvey, Wizened Web Wizard Wannabe,
Talk to me!
12:22, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Exactly how is this a retronym and not simply a name change? ...a poor example, regardless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.10.62.253 ( talk) 21:59, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
There are four separate retronyms referring to the computer game Doom, seems a little excessive. Or possibly in contradiction to wikipedia policies on relevance, listing, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.23.134.2 ( talk) 22:58, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Is it worth adding "p-book" (meaning a paper book to distinguish from e-books)? The term p-book is gaining popularity (though personally I'm not keen!) as e-books are surging in their popularity. Red banksy ( talk) 09:20, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I think it might be wise to create a section for such works like specific movies and video and computer games... anyone? BlackAdvisor ( talk) 19:11, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
This is going to need some references. It's not at all obvious that originally everyone didn't believe in God or gods. Neither is it obvious that the term "atheism" came about due to the spread of theism (for example, "atheism" wouldn't be a retronym if at some time everyone was an atheist, then later everyone became a theist, then later again atheism was reintroduced). Either or both may be true, but we need to establish that with reliable references or the entry can't stand. Marnanel ( talk) 22:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I've removed World War I, because it was not named World War I during or after World War II. It was named such in 1918, and Charles à Court Repington published a book about the war in 1920 titled The First World War". Kingturtle = ( talk) 00:19, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
On November 18, Oxford Dictionaries announced that their international Word of the Year 2014 is vape. If you vape, you inhale and exhale the vapour produced by electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes or e-cigs) http://wwwords.org/vape. The retronym is tobacco cigarette. Brenont ( talk) 14:11, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Some examples:
The whole section on "disputed retronyms" seems pointless; the double retronyms aren't actually retronyms; and really, I'm not sure what the point of this list is. But if it's going to be here, it should probably be correct, and sourced.-- 50.0.128.185 ( talk) 09:53, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
This is certainly a new name for something old, and is a very interesting example, but it isn't a retronym per definition. There was no new BNA Act from which the old one needed to be distinguished; on the contrary, old and new acts with different titles were all renamed Constitution Act! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.239.0.169 ( talk) 21:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I don't think that the term "DOS computer" arose from the advent of Windows like the article suggests. Even before Windows, a DOS computer could have been opposed to one's UNIX machine. Does anyone have any info to back the claim in the article? Memfrob ( talk) 05:28, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
City of London; downtown Los Angeles – distinguishing the old core from the grand accretion. What variations exist elsewhere?
Old Castile, a region of Spain.
Washington DC – marginal, as the name existed before, but the suffix became necessary after 1853. — Tamfang ( talk) 19:23, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
I question the addition of the bolded words. Was the duchy not part of the kingdom of Poland? (And did it not include at least part of what is now Kaliningrad Oblast?) — Tamfang ( talk) 06:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
I don't see any retronyms in the section Double retronyms, do you? — Tamfang ( talk) 18:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
The term "roller skate" was in use long before in-line skates (Rollerblades) to differentiate skates with wheels from ice skates. 108.225.17.141 ( talk) 16:57, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of retronyms article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This page should not have been split from the article, Retronym. It should be re-merged. The person who split it has given no reason for doing so. Where there are valid reasons for splitting (excess size or divergent uses of the topic name), relevant sections of the original talk page should be copied and pasted, as I have done below. In this case the entire talk page of Retronym refers to the List of retronyms article.— Copey 2 09:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
"Vinyl record: A term that arose to distinguish 33⅓- and 45-rpm phonograph records (LPs and 45s) from the compact discs (CDs) that have since replaced them for nearly all physical records and record albums."
I don't know that this is appropriate for this article. I believe that vinyl (PVC) records were called vinyl records when they first came into popular use - so as to distinguish them from other (generally earlier) phonograph disks made of other materials like shellac, rubber, metal, glass, etc. So yeah - not really a retronym. As hard as it may be for us to believe now a days, the vinyl record was at one point a technological inovation over earlier forms of recording. :)
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_record#Early_history for more background... -- Blackcats 03:10, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Re: "Rotary-dial telephone"-- For a time these were the newer, more modern variety of telephone, while they were replacing the previously usual standard type of telephone. -- Hello Central, gimme Infrogmation
When I added the retronymic use of "Sr." (senior) for fathers who (foolishly and egotistically, IMHO) name their sons after themselves, I found myself wondering if there are any famous uses of "Sr." for women. I can't think of any, nor can I think of any "feminine" substitute for this practice. It isn't because of lack of need. (My own family includes three generations of Marys and two of Carolyns, as well as four Davids! My Marys have nicknames to distinguish themselves, and the Carolyns just get confused. Who ever invented this practice?!) I suppose it's less frequently necessarily in societies where women adopt the surnames of their husbands when they marry, or where they acquire compound or hyphenated names, but surely this comes up from time to time. Someone famous must have dealt with this issue! -- Jeff Q 09:03, 23 May 2004 (UTC)
Would the term "Catholic" be a retronym, since the Catholic church only started using that term after the advent of Protestantism? ☞spencer195 03:46, 30 May 2004 (UTC)
The term was certainly in use by the Council of Nicaea (325 AD) since it appears in the Creed there agreed. Mark O'Sullivan 11:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The earliest extant use of the term Catholic was in the early 2nd century by Ignatius of Antioch, who must have known the apostles, in a letter written shortly before his martyrdom. Dates for this are as various as 107 and 115 AD.— Copey 2 09:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
What about charcoal? Before the advent of the then so-called "sea-coal" in the Middle Ages, charcoal should have been generally known as just "coal". -- Cendol 10:19, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
"Sea Coal" is coal from underwater deposits washed up on a beach.--RKH
The acoustic guitar is distinguished from the classical guitar in that it has metal strings. I assume that this is the origin of the name, not a retronym after the electric guitar. — Asbestos | Talk 08:37, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Would the posthumous names entry really be a retronym? It's a name awarded after death, not a name added to distinguish it from something modern.
Is Catherine of Aragon a retronym? I suppose she was called "of Aragon" under certain circumstances to begin with, but the period sources I've seen tend to just call her "Queen Catherine" (even in treatises about the annullment of her marriage to Henry VIII) I assume "of Aragon" started to become a common epithet for her once Henry married Catherine Howard and Catherine Parre. If anyone has a period source, preferably one in Latin, that refers to her witih her epithet, I would like to see it. -- Iustinus 19:18, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Wouldn't classic rock and classical music be retronys? I doubt Mozart called himself "classical".
There were several names around galant music Baroque music, and Empfindsamkeit. They all are under the umbrella of "classical", not referred to their names of that period typically now.
I believe that this item ought to be qualified as US usage. In the UK, "fast-food" outlets are generally referred to as "cafés" despite the best efforts of one major US chain to dignify its establishments, and "take-away" [southern England] or "carry-out" [Scotland and Northern Ireland] facilities are generally referred to as "shops". Mark O'Sullivan 11:55, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Since today the name "George Bush" is more commonly used to mean the son rather than the father, could the adding of the "H.W." or saying "George Bush Senior" be considered a retronym? I know someone mentioned that "Senior" is retronymic, but does the same apply to the later-added middle intials?
Would this be an example of a retronym? As "soccer" becomes more popular and Americans watch European "football", the term "American Football" seems to be more appropriate. I heard the term quite often while living in Europe and even the Americans started using it.
Hi, Flapdragon, please explain why for example, "hard cider" isn't a retronym. Don't just remove it, if you have a good reason why you have deleted it, you should explain. It's not at all clear why you have deleted it. Dieter Simon 22:53, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Would Feudal count? Conglacio 04:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Mahjong (among other spellings) is actually a four-player game, but it seems that when people talk of it they often actually mean mahjong solitaire. As such, there ought to be a term that's used to clarify that one is talking of the four-player game. Assuming that it really does predate the solitaire game, then if there's a term in significant use that is understood to mean specifically the four-player game, then it could go on the list. -- Smjg 13:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Film camera doesn't belong here. There was more than one type of camera before digital - plate cameras, for a start, did not (and do not) use film.
This page would be better if there were dated sources for the claimed retronyms. -- Pfold 07:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
What about analogue Camera?
Deleted. The term pocket watch existed 2 centuries before wrist watch. Don't people check these things in a dictionary before posting them here? -- Pfold 08:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
This a retronym? When did shellfish first exist? I thought they existed before fish did. Though if so then there can't have been a huge gap - apparently [2] fish were invented 510 mya, 32 my into the Cambrian. -- Smjg 14:56, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Was there really any point in splitting this article into Retronym, consisting of 3 short paragraphs and List of retronyms, with the bulk of the original? In the meantime, I will paste this talk page with the List article.— Copey 2 09:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
could have been used in contrast to mainframes, so is it really a retronym? 75.16.157.237 04:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
From [3] we have "land ambulance". Morwen - Talk 14:26, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I recently read that the term " vegetarian" originally referred to what we would now call a vegan. Are lacto-ovo-vegetarians a more recent invention - or did they exist from the beginning (at least of human vegetarianism), just not referred to as vegetarians? (Moreover, where did food versus other animal exploitations fall into the original equation?) -- Smjg 14:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
The fountain pen was definitely so called before the invention of the ball point -- to distinguish it from the dip pen, which probably is a better example of a retronym. One good example is the 1892 joke reproduced at http://www.kamakurapens.com/Humor/TheFountainPenWasInventedByTheDevil.html and I am certain there are amny others out there. It should probably be stricken from this list. -- Jeff Lipschultz 03:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I suspect that bar soap was an innovation relative to soap flakes, but that's only a guess on my part. As for regular coffee, can we simply say that regular is a common retronym-forming adjective for just about anything? — Tamfang 05:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
The 1980-1988 conflict between Iran and Iraq was often referred to as "the Gulf War" (or the "Persian Gulf War") while it was going on. Bicycles originally had a large front wheel and a small rear wheel. After the introduction of the "safety bicycle" with two equal-size wheels, the type with unmatched wheels became known as the "penny-farthing," among other names. Similarly, the invention of the safety razor and its subsequent popularity generated a need to rename the old-style blade as a "straight razor." --RKH
How embarassing--I knew that. Precision is important, as I tell my students. On a related note, the large-small bicycle became known as an "ordinary bicycle" once the safety bicycle appeared. I'm not sure when the term "penny-farthing" was coined. --RKH
I can only disagree with the listing of these two.
"Known simply as "people" before transport was invented" - surely transport (in the form of horses, horse-drawn vehicles and the like) came about long before the English language as we know it did. So when could "people" have specifically meant pedestrians? Moreover, aren't people still people even when they're not on the move?
And as for "heterosexual", homosexuals and heterosexuals alike must have existed for centuries before there were names for them. -- Smjg 18:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The terms "homosexual" and "heterosexual" were invented at the same time, as two sides of the same coinage. - 161.57.55.36 18:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Isn't this also used in order to distinguish between the biological parent and the 'legal' parent, i.e. if the biological father is not the 'legal' father because of adultery?-- Soylentyellow 17:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
In how much of the world are the given terms used? The only kinds of milk that we Brits are generally acquainted with are full-cream, semi-skimmed and skimmed. (We do have the term whole milk, I think more often on labels than in everyday conversation.) According to Delia Online, full-cream is 3.5% and semi-skimmed is 1.5-1.8%. How can we best consolidate these facts or, failing that, rephrase it to be more geographically neutral? -- Smjg 23:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The part about SDTV possibly coming in to use is quite outdated imho. At least here in Sweden we separate SD from HD, at least in nerdy/semi-nerdy circles. /per
They were Milk Chocolate m&m's during my childhood. Never to my knowledge have they been called Plain m&m's, at least here in the UK. Besides, dark chocolate is often known as plain chocolate over here, and so the name "Plain m&m's" would have been confusing. I think it's just as likely that renaming Plain m&m's to Milk Chocolate m&m's in some unspecified country was a move to give the product a consistent name across the English-speaking world. -- Smjg 14:05, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
The M&Ms in the dark brown packages were described on the wrapper as "Plain" for decades in the USA. I remember reading newspaper stories when they removed the word "plain" from the packaging and replaced it with "milk chocolate." I didn't think it made sense at the time, but in retrospect it does since now there is a "dark chocolate" variety (purple wrapper). The newspaper article suggested Mars didn't want to use a word with negative connotations (one could argue if "plain" qualifies) to describe their product. — tuc 5 February 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.66.250.95 ( talk) 13:19, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
This article has many US only examples and some UK only examples. What about Canadian, Australian, or non-Anglosphere examples? I am neither from the US or the UK, but there are definitely examples from outside these two countries. Johnny Au ( talk) 19:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
If User:Arthur Rubin hadn't reverted User:Wavelength's additions of "capital letters" and so on, I'd be considering it, because they imply an over-simplification of the history of our alphabet. — Tamfang ( talk) 16:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I moved this huge list here for merging, because it just clutters the main subject article. Locador ( talk) 17:46, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
The designation of a period or of an artistic or literary style as " classical" is invariably a retronym; such a designation is given only retroactively, when the heritage of the period in question has been judged and found worthy by a later culture.
Careless use of retronyms in historical fiction can cause anachronisms. For example, referring to the "First World War" in a piece set in 1935 would be incorrect — "The Great War" or "14-18 War" were commonly employed descriptions prior to World War II. Anachronistic use of a retronym could also betray a modern document forgery (such as a description of the First Battle of Bull Run before the second had taken place).
safire1
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The first mass-distributed films were monochrome and silent. As the technology developed:
Television has prompted several retronyms:
Telephone calls were originally completed through the assistance of an operator at a switchboard. When self-dialing service became available, the older service was referred to as "operator assisted" dialing. Later, tone-based dialing prompted the older service to be retronymed "pulse" dialing. The older phones were also referred to as "rotary dial" phones, to differentiate from the newer phones with a keypad.
The advent of digital telephony services such as ISDN and ADSL led to analog services being described as " plain old telephone service" (or simply "POTS"), primarily within the telephone industry. As mobile telephones have become prevalent, many consumers have come to refer to POTS as "land line" phone service citation needed – although calls placed on such a line may traverse wireless links such as microwave and satellite.
Is the term cabinet minister a retronym?-- ماني a.k.a. [[User:Mani1]] ( talk) 00:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Could some examples be given of when this term has been used, I have never heard Nintendo use it or any enthusiasts. Drkirby ( talk) 20:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
No one calls it that, or at least not enough people for it to be common enough for a list like this. Maybe some nuts somewhere call it that. 76.226.223.3 ( talk) 22:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
How is "DOS mode" a renaming of the operating system "DOS"? Doesn't seem like a retronym to me. If you install DOS on your machine, then you call it DOS. If you use DOS from within the Windows operating system, then it's called "DOS mode", since it's merely a feature of the extant OS, rather than a distinct OS -- or something like that. In any case, standalone DOS is never called "DOS mode", so this isn't a retronym. Phiwum ( talk) 08:16, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Seaport appeared in the English language in the 1590's.
[4] Since airports didn't exist then, seaport can't be a retronym for airport. It should be deleted from this list, unless its inclusion is supported.
John Harvey, Wizened Web Wizard Wannabe,
Talk to me!
12:22, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Exactly how is this a retronym and not simply a name change? ...a poor example, regardless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.10.62.253 ( talk) 21:59, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
There are four separate retronyms referring to the computer game Doom, seems a little excessive. Or possibly in contradiction to wikipedia policies on relevance, listing, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.23.134.2 ( talk) 22:58, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Is it worth adding "p-book" (meaning a paper book to distinguish from e-books)? The term p-book is gaining popularity (though personally I'm not keen!) as e-books are surging in their popularity. Red banksy ( talk) 09:20, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I think it might be wise to create a section for such works like specific movies and video and computer games... anyone? BlackAdvisor ( talk) 19:11, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
This is going to need some references. It's not at all obvious that originally everyone didn't believe in God or gods. Neither is it obvious that the term "atheism" came about due to the spread of theism (for example, "atheism" wouldn't be a retronym if at some time everyone was an atheist, then later everyone became a theist, then later again atheism was reintroduced). Either or both may be true, but we need to establish that with reliable references or the entry can't stand. Marnanel ( talk) 22:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
I've removed World War I, because it was not named World War I during or after World War II. It was named such in 1918, and Charles à Court Repington published a book about the war in 1920 titled The First World War". Kingturtle = ( talk) 00:19, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
On November 18, Oxford Dictionaries announced that their international Word of the Year 2014 is vape. If you vape, you inhale and exhale the vapour produced by electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes or e-cigs) http://wwwords.org/vape. The retronym is tobacco cigarette. Brenont ( talk) 14:11, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Some examples:
The whole section on "disputed retronyms" seems pointless; the double retronyms aren't actually retronyms; and really, I'm not sure what the point of this list is. But if it's going to be here, it should probably be correct, and sourced.-- 50.0.128.185 ( talk) 09:53, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
This is certainly a new name for something old, and is a very interesting example, but it isn't a retronym per definition. There was no new BNA Act from which the old one needed to be distinguished; on the contrary, old and new acts with different titles were all renamed Constitution Act! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.239.0.169 ( talk) 21:32, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I don't think that the term "DOS computer" arose from the advent of Windows like the article suggests. Even before Windows, a DOS computer could have been opposed to one's UNIX machine. Does anyone have any info to back the claim in the article? Memfrob ( talk) 05:28, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
City of London; downtown Los Angeles – distinguishing the old core from the grand accretion. What variations exist elsewhere?
Old Castile, a region of Spain.
Washington DC – marginal, as the name existed before, but the suffix became necessary after 1853. — Tamfang ( talk) 19:23, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
I question the addition of the bolded words. Was the duchy not part of the kingdom of Poland? (And did it not include at least part of what is now Kaliningrad Oblast?) — Tamfang ( talk) 06:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
I don't see any retronyms in the section Double retronyms, do you? — Tamfang ( talk) 18:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
The term "roller skate" was in use long before in-line skates (Rollerblades) to differentiate skates with wheels from ice skates. 108.225.17.141 ( talk) 16:57, 3 December 2023 (UTC)