![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am by no means an expert on refrigerants, but I happened to notice that dimethyl ether has an ASHRAE number (E170):
http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/1933
However, dimethyl ether does not appear in the Wikipedia List of refrigerants ... is there a reason for this? -- Andersneld ( talk) 12:01, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
This is the best reference on ASHRAE numbers and GWPs I have seen! Could we improve it by adding the EPA and global numbering scheme for Ozone Depleting Substances as a cross reference? This would be even more useful. Having a downloadable spreadsheet would also be nice. I am a wiki newbie so would not venture to do this myself although the cross refernce sources are in 40 CFR 98 Table A-1 and http://www.epa.gov/ozone/geninfo/numbers.html
Pugliop ( talk) 22:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
This article's table is practically worthless. I would delete all of the global warming mumbo jumbo and replace it with hard facts, such as the refrigerant's boiling point or vapor pressure at STP or something that has some practical use in refrigeration. Adding in the global warming potential is like listing the types of fuels derived from petroleum and not listing their heating values when burnt in air but instead focusing on how toxic each one is if ingested. The big picture is more important than the bunny trails. I like to saw logs! ( talk) 23:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
I haven't looked at the primary sources for this data, but some values seem way too precise. Example: Atmospheric lifetime for R-401A is given as 8.514 years. Whew! It's a good thing it doesn't last for 8.517 years. That's facetious, but you get the idea. They should be rounded to one decimal point. ChrisWinter ( talk) 20:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
There is obviously a big confusion of several listed values from R-511 to R-611 - somebody who is able to should fix them! Thanx!
It seems to me that for quite many compounds the molecular mass is in the column of normal boiling point temperature. Needs a lot of fixing! Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.193.63 ( talk) 20:06, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Just for the order sake: the values of molecular weight (those with (1) as ref.) should be moved to the left, and the values of boilng point (ref.2) to the correct column.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.173.54.149 ( talk) 20:15, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I reverted all edits to the EmausBot edit of 5 July 2012. The subsequent four edits scrambled the columns in a way that would be very tedious to manually fix. Most noticablly is the molecular mass column. The molecular mass column is OK for the first 20 lines or so. Jim1138 ( talk) 04:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Per suggestion of Material scientist, I have removed the molecular mass uncertainty and reduced the mass precision. The mass uncertainty would not be useful except to someone doing extreme precision experiments. The experimenter would be referencing literature and not Wikipedia for this information. As the uncertainty and extra precision bloats the article and makes it difficult to read and maintain, I have removed it. Jim1138 ( talk) 08:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
You might want to add R-723 (Ammonia-dimethil-ether)
Ákos — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.74.55.49 ( talk) 09:02, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
There is no mention of hydrocarbon refrigerants - R170 (ethane), R290 (propane), R600/600a (butane/iso-butane).
Alongside the relevance of these refrigerants for general subject coverage, HC Rrefrigerants are, in many cases, superior refrigerants to others mentioned in the article, particularly with regard to performance, cost, availability and environmental impact, which appears to be a key focus of the current article:
Hydrocarbon refrigerants have GWP's only a tiny fraction of the HCFC/HFC refrigerants. Do not damage the ozone layer as do CFC's. More thermodynamically efficient than HCFC. Much lower toxicity than CFC/HCFC. Compatible with most existing systems; (R12, R22, R134a, R404A, R407C, R502, R600a). Lower head pressure is gentler to equipment. Compatible with all refrigeration lubricants, including synthetic and mineral oils. More readily available than alternatives. Cheaper than alternatives.
Airophile ( talk) 03:04, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
There are mention of them in
Natural refrigerants too.
2A02:168:F609:0:5F8:C25A:2F16:ECD5 (
talk)
20:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on List of refrigerants. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
I know Cyclopentane is pretty popular is freezers in Europe. I see many ice cream freezers with C2H10, which almost certainly is Cyclopentane. I did also some literature on this topic, but no R-X designation. Obviously it is highly flammable, and do have properties somehow close to isobutane probably. I also know Cyclohexane is in use sometimes. 2A02:168:F609:0:5F8:C25A:2F16:ECD5 ( talk) 21:07, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
I thought that there were other trademarks, used by other companies, for refrigerants, but I can't remember them. Gah4 ( talk) 07:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Should olefins have names like ethylene or like ethene? Whichever one is the IUPAC name, as the column header says, should be used consistently. Gah4 ( talk) 02:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
The molar mass claimed by this page and by Honeywell is about twice what refprop claims. In addition, it's about twice what similar mixtures have. I've notified Honeywell of this. Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 20:14, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
The GWP100 values come from mixed citations [2,3,4,9,15,21,23,52,56,65,66] and educated estimates [c,g]. Many, though not all, numbers are outdated compared to AR6 Table 7.SM.7 https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGI_Full_Report.pdf
I propose to update the GWP100 values based on AR6 for all pure refrigerants covered by AR6 Table 7.SM.7. A recalculation of the blend GWP100 values would also be needed.
An option is to add the GWP20 values simultaneously, in a column to the left of GWP100, as also done in the AR6 report table 7.SM.7, but I would do that in a separate edit so it can be discussed separately. Mwoc87 ( talk) 08:38, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
For most refrigerants the composition is written as a mass fraction. This should be indicated in the table header as it is not a detail. The composition for air was entered as a mole fraction and should be converted. 92.40.212.161 ( talk) 13:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
I'd guess most readers are looking at this column as a heuristic for practical mininum low-end temperatures, so have changed the value from -78°C to -56.56°C with a note, under the assumptions that most most people looking at this list are looking for a closed-loop fluid and want to avoid operating in a regime with dry solids.
If this is mistaken it should be reverted; if there are common-but-not-universal systems which use dry solids, perhaps both values should be listed; if there are other substances which have high sublimation pressures perhaps they should be similarly modified. BoilingLeadBath ( talk) 18:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am by no means an expert on refrigerants, but I happened to notice that dimethyl ether has an ASHRAE number (E170):
http://www.ashrae.org/technology/page/1933
However, dimethyl ether does not appear in the Wikipedia List of refrigerants ... is there a reason for this? -- Andersneld ( talk) 12:01, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
This is the best reference on ASHRAE numbers and GWPs I have seen! Could we improve it by adding the EPA and global numbering scheme for Ozone Depleting Substances as a cross reference? This would be even more useful. Having a downloadable spreadsheet would also be nice. I am a wiki newbie so would not venture to do this myself although the cross refernce sources are in 40 CFR 98 Table A-1 and http://www.epa.gov/ozone/geninfo/numbers.html
Pugliop ( talk) 22:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
This article's table is practically worthless. I would delete all of the global warming mumbo jumbo and replace it with hard facts, such as the refrigerant's boiling point or vapor pressure at STP or something that has some practical use in refrigeration. Adding in the global warming potential is like listing the types of fuels derived from petroleum and not listing their heating values when burnt in air but instead focusing on how toxic each one is if ingested. The big picture is more important than the bunny trails. I like to saw logs! ( talk) 23:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
I haven't looked at the primary sources for this data, but some values seem way too precise. Example: Atmospheric lifetime for R-401A is given as 8.514 years. Whew! It's a good thing it doesn't last for 8.517 years. That's facetious, but you get the idea. They should be rounded to one decimal point. ChrisWinter ( talk) 20:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
There is obviously a big confusion of several listed values from R-511 to R-611 - somebody who is able to should fix them! Thanx!
It seems to me that for quite many compounds the molecular mass is in the column of normal boiling point temperature. Needs a lot of fixing! Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.193.63 ( talk) 20:06, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Just for the order sake: the values of molecular weight (those with (1) as ref.) should be moved to the left, and the values of boilng point (ref.2) to the correct column.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.173.54.149 ( talk) 20:15, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I reverted all edits to the EmausBot edit of 5 July 2012. The subsequent four edits scrambled the columns in a way that would be very tedious to manually fix. Most noticablly is the molecular mass column. The molecular mass column is OK for the first 20 lines or so. Jim1138 ( talk) 04:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Per suggestion of Material scientist, I have removed the molecular mass uncertainty and reduced the mass precision. The mass uncertainty would not be useful except to someone doing extreme precision experiments. The experimenter would be referencing literature and not Wikipedia for this information. As the uncertainty and extra precision bloats the article and makes it difficult to read and maintain, I have removed it. Jim1138 ( talk) 08:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
You might want to add R-723 (Ammonia-dimethil-ether)
Ákos — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.74.55.49 ( talk) 09:02, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
There is no mention of hydrocarbon refrigerants - R170 (ethane), R290 (propane), R600/600a (butane/iso-butane).
Alongside the relevance of these refrigerants for general subject coverage, HC Rrefrigerants are, in many cases, superior refrigerants to others mentioned in the article, particularly with regard to performance, cost, availability and environmental impact, which appears to be a key focus of the current article:
Hydrocarbon refrigerants have GWP's only a tiny fraction of the HCFC/HFC refrigerants. Do not damage the ozone layer as do CFC's. More thermodynamically efficient than HCFC. Much lower toxicity than CFC/HCFC. Compatible with most existing systems; (R12, R22, R134a, R404A, R407C, R502, R600a). Lower head pressure is gentler to equipment. Compatible with all refrigeration lubricants, including synthetic and mineral oils. More readily available than alternatives. Cheaper than alternatives.
Airophile ( talk) 03:04, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
There are mention of them in
Natural refrigerants too.
2A02:168:F609:0:5F8:C25A:2F16:ECD5 (
talk)
20:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on List of refrigerants. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
I know Cyclopentane is pretty popular is freezers in Europe. I see many ice cream freezers with C2H10, which almost certainly is Cyclopentane. I did also some literature on this topic, but no R-X designation. Obviously it is highly flammable, and do have properties somehow close to isobutane probably. I also know Cyclohexane is in use sometimes. 2A02:168:F609:0:5F8:C25A:2F16:ECD5 ( talk) 21:07, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
I thought that there were other trademarks, used by other companies, for refrigerants, but I can't remember them. Gah4 ( talk) 07:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Should olefins have names like ethylene or like ethene? Whichever one is the IUPAC name, as the column header says, should be used consistently. Gah4 ( talk) 02:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
The molar mass claimed by this page and by Honeywell is about twice what refprop claims. In addition, it's about twice what similar mixtures have. I've notified Honeywell of this. Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 20:14, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
The GWP100 values come from mixed citations [2,3,4,9,15,21,23,52,56,65,66] and educated estimates [c,g]. Many, though not all, numbers are outdated compared to AR6 Table 7.SM.7 https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGI_Full_Report.pdf
I propose to update the GWP100 values based on AR6 for all pure refrigerants covered by AR6 Table 7.SM.7. A recalculation of the blend GWP100 values would also be needed.
An option is to add the GWP20 values simultaneously, in a column to the left of GWP100, as also done in the AR6 report table 7.SM.7, but I would do that in a separate edit so it can be discussed separately. Mwoc87 ( talk) 08:38, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
For most refrigerants the composition is written as a mass fraction. This should be indicated in the table header as it is not a detail. The composition for air was entered as a mole fraction and should be converted. 92.40.212.161 ( talk) 13:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
I'd guess most readers are looking at this column as a heuristic for practical mininum low-end temperatures, so have changed the value from -78°C to -56.56°C with a note, under the assumptions that most most people looking at this list are looking for a closed-loop fluid and want to avoid operating in a regime with dry solids.
If this is mistaken it should be reverted; if there are common-but-not-universal systems which use dry solids, perhaps both values should be listed; if there are other substances which have high sublimation pressures perhaps they should be similarly modified. BoilingLeadBath ( talk) 18:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)