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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
The French Wikipedia has a similar article Liste de coureurs cyclistes morts en course. I have removed the "may be extended with..." template from this article - the French article has a notice saying their article is based on this one! I glanced at the French article and think there are only a few possible names not on this one. Will take a look and find references etc. Shearonink ( talk) 22:15, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
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It was pointed out to me that the Nationality part of the first section, the Table, doesn't actually point to the nationality of a cyclist but instead points to the national governing body for cycling in that country... and now that doesn't seem quite correct to me. Unless anyone objects I am going to convert all the piped links to a national link. Shearonink ( talk) 02:00, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Maybe I'm wrong (it happens sometimes lol) but some recent edits seemed to be stating that the website is the author when using 'cite web'...that doesn't seem to be completely correct to me. If the actual author is unknown then the author parameter should be left blank shouldn't it? Also, when a news report's credit is "Agence France Presse" or "VeloNews Interactive" those two entities or similar press agencies (like UPI or AP) should be considered to be the credited authors and the publisher is the newspaper/website that uses that article from AFP or VNI etc. Shearonink ( talk) 23:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks to CAPTAIN MEDUSA, zmbro, ChrisTheDude for their thoughts and input on this List's WP:FLC. I didn't realize that the candidacy would be archived at this point and/or there was a deadline. I posted in September 2019 and in November 2019 trying to get further input as to whether or not the differing sections were the only sticking point but no one answered so I thought it was still a viable candidate. Oh well...live and learn. Shearonink ( talk) 19:13, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
My first thought on seeing this list was "if you're using a pacemaker, you shouldn't be involved in serious cycle racing." Maproom ( talk) 11:30, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that quite many cyclists from the old days are missing; that are in lists at other website who lists cyclists who died in competitions. As this is a featured list, I think it’s important that the list must have a general “completeness”. “articles are reviewed as featured article candidates for accuracy, neutrality, completeness, and style according to our featured article criteria.” I added already several of them; but don’t have the time to add them all. See
SportsOlympic ( talk) 14:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Earlier this month text and references about 2 cyclists were deleted with the edit summary of They have their own pages; these details should be there. Maybe that could be true but why can't the content be in both? The content could have been copied with attribution. Anyway, I have restored the deleted content to this List - let's discuss. Thanks, Shearonink ( talk) 21:01, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
Minimal info | Full info | Compromise |
---|---|---|
Died after being struck by a van in Zeebrugge, Belgium. According to a statement of the Bruges parquet, Sørensen did not yield on a location where he needed to do so. [1] [2] [3] | Sørensen competed for Denmark in the 2008 Olympic road race, finishing 12th overall. Starting with the 2010 season, Sørensen rode under a Luxembourgian license, since he lived in Luxembourg and the UCI no longer allowed the Danish federation to grant Danish licenses to riders living abroad. [4] During the 2010 season, he won Stage 8 of the Giro d'Italia. [5] In 2017 he retired from road racing and worked as a commentator on TV 2 (Denmark) from 2017 until his death. [6] Sørensen died on 18 September 2021 from injuries after being struck by a van while on a bike ride in Zeebrugge, Belgium; he had been due to cover the 2021 UCI Road World Championships the following day. According to a statement of the Bruges parquet released on 19 September, Sørensen did not yield on a location where he needed to do so. [7] [8] [9] | Sørensen, who had competed for Denmark in the 2008 Olympic road race and finished 12th overall, died on 18 September 2021 from injuries after being struck by a van while on a bike ride in Zeebrugge, Belgium. According to a statement of the Bruges parquet released on 19 September, Sørensen did not yield on a location where he needed to do so. [10] [11] [12] |
References
As @ Shearonink was helpful to point out, I omitted an explanation for my edit to this page where I removed every instance of the word "accident" and replaced it with "crash". The word "accident" is a poor adjective to describe the collisions which led to many of the entries on this page, and per the Associated Press, "...can be read as a term exonerating the person responsible." "In such cases, use "crash," "collision" or other terms," they went on to say. Many leading news publications in WP:REPUTABLE have largely set aside the use of the word. Dreameditsbrooklyn ( talk) 09:31, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Tragic though they were, I don't think that the deaths of Chris Anker Sorensen and Davide Rebellin fit the definition for inclusion in that section. It is headed "The following athletes died while individually training for competitions or during scheduled breaks while participating in a professional race."Both men were retired from any form of competitive cycling. If they are to remain in the list, a new inclusion criterion needs to be introduced, which avoids including any leisure rider. Or a separate section, appropriately defined, should be started. Ideas? Kevin McE ( talk) 08:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Kevin McE - Let's discuss your changes today. Your continuing reversions against NekoKatsun's and my edits without then going to article talk are against policy. Please stop. Shearonink ( talk) 17:36, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
Keeping in mind your concerns about the inclusion parameters, Kevin McE, I have adjusted the lead's wording. That some of the cyclists were retired shouldn't preclude them from being included on this List.
As to whether some cyclists should or should not be on this List, you might not be familiar with the fact that many names have been pruned off of it in the past. And whether or not a cyclist was a professional or an amateur is not always easy to ascertain, especially when anti-professional/anti-working class prejudice and pro-amateur/"Olympic ideals" have held sway.
Hoping to address some of your concerns about names off or on the List...from its beginnings - long before I ever came across it, I don't think this List has ever been intended to become an indiscriminate repository for every person ever killed while cycling (over 1200 in the US in 2020, 141 in the UK, 41K in the world annually) but I think the deaths during racing or training of prominent, well-known, professional, Olympic champion and amateur cyclists reported on by cycling publications and in other media sources, even covered prominently in books...these deaths are notable enough to be included in this List. Cycling publications, the general press, and histories contain extensive information about the cycling deaths of prominent, well-known, amateur, professional, Olympic, champion, present/past/retired cyclists...Wikipedia should reflect that published information.
Going forward if you have specific names that you object to, would it be helpful to take them one at a time? Interested editors can weigh in, discuss the issues specific to that cyclist and we can all come to an editorial consensus together.
Shearonink (
talk)
23:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The athletes listed here were either professional cyclists, pacemakers, or well-known competitive amateurs who had a cycling-related death, mostly during a race or during training) and the "Cyclists who died during training" section (
The following athletes died while individually training for competitions or during scheduled breaks while participating in a professional race). It seems to me that this is the main point of contention everyone's coming to this with, as the deaths you're removing meet the former criteria but not the latter. Does that sound correct to you? Am I understanding your position correctly?
So what is this list actually meant to be about? Is it to present the dangers of cycling as an activity, but only in relation to those who have done it at a high level? Is it about the dangers of cycling as a sport, both in competition and preparing for it? Or is it a reflection on the sad fact that some lives are largely shaped or made noteworthy by cycling can also be ended by it? Or is it a piecemeal collection of anecdotes about deaths which have some relation to cycling? When that purpose is decided, then we can build some meaningful inclusion criteria. And until we have a consensus on the criteria, let's not re-add those who do not fit them.
Kevin McE (
talk)
15:18, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Please google for Sule Kangangi and John Njoroge Muya from Kenya, and there was another one some years ago. Maybe someone can add them? - Hannes Schindler 94.217.143.157 ( talk) 17:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
This removed cyclists from the list. Perhaps the lead section should be adjusted...It makes sense to me that at least deaths that occurred during notable races or events like Breedlove's & Malin's during the different Race Across America events and cycling deaths that have had a major effect on the sport or on their home country like Shamus Liptrot's. (I just Googled the name "Shamus Liptrot" - he seems to be still very much on the minds of his country and in Australian news.) Perhaps if a death is widely reported that should have some bearing on keeping the entry in this List? Anyway, let's discuss. Shearonink ( talk) 15:22, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Niels De Vriendt has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 16 § Niels De Vriendt until a consensus is reached.
Joseph
2302 (
talk)
12:35, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Former Volta a Portugal runner-up passed away aged 34 during training in 1997 - I wish I was more wiki-savvy so I could enter it on the page myself. Struggling with the link as writing his name on the table forces it into a very different Manuel Abreu. 81.109.71.137 ( talk) 15:29, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Neither of these men were on a professional team at the time of their death, and therefore cannot be considered to have been active professional road cyclists. The description of the section they are in is "The following athletes died while individually training for competitions or during scheduled breaks while participating in a professional race." Whatever they may have been preparing for was not a high level race, and therefore they do not meet the criteria. The argument that "both are high level enough to have their own articles" is entirely false according to WP:NCYC: the fact that articles exist does not mean that they should. Kevin McE ( talk) 17:30, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
I don't know if you want to add Junior cyclists too, but Jacopo Venzo died today for the consequences of a crush yesterday during the Junioren Rundfahrt ( source). Martin Mystère ( talk) 09:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
I removed the cyclists' accomplishments in the section because it adds nothing to the article other than unwanted clutter. Just nothing but pointless trivia. SpacedFarmer ( talk) 16:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 11:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
The French Wikipedia has a similar article Liste de coureurs cyclistes morts en course. I have removed the "may be extended with..." template from this article - the French article has a notice saying their article is based on this one! I glanced at the French article and think there are only a few possible names not on this one. Will take a look and find references etc. Shearonink ( talk) 22:15, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 11 external links on List of cyclists with a cycling related death. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
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I have just modified 2 external links on List of cyclists with a cycling related death. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:27, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of cyclists with a cycling related death. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
It was pointed out to me that the Nationality part of the first section, the Table, doesn't actually point to the nationality of a cyclist but instead points to the national governing body for cycling in that country... and now that doesn't seem quite correct to me. Unless anyone objects I am going to convert all the piped links to a national link. Shearonink ( talk) 02:00, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Maybe I'm wrong (it happens sometimes lol) but some recent edits seemed to be stating that the website is the author when using 'cite web'...that doesn't seem to be completely correct to me. If the actual author is unknown then the author parameter should be left blank shouldn't it? Also, when a news report's credit is "Agence France Presse" or "VeloNews Interactive" those two entities or similar press agencies (like UPI or AP) should be considered to be the credited authors and the publisher is the newspaper/website that uses that article from AFP or VNI etc. Shearonink ( talk) 23:35, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks to CAPTAIN MEDUSA, zmbro, ChrisTheDude for their thoughts and input on this List's WP:FLC. I didn't realize that the candidacy would be archived at this point and/or there was a deadline. I posted in September 2019 and in November 2019 trying to get further input as to whether or not the differing sections were the only sticking point but no one answered so I thought it was still a viable candidate. Oh well...live and learn. Shearonink ( talk) 19:13, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
My first thought on seeing this list was "if you're using a pacemaker, you shouldn't be involved in serious cycle racing." Maproom ( talk) 11:30, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that quite many cyclists from the old days are missing; that are in lists at other website who lists cyclists who died in competitions. As this is a featured list, I think it’s important that the list must have a general “completeness”. “articles are reviewed as featured article candidates for accuracy, neutrality, completeness, and style according to our featured article criteria.” I added already several of them; but don’t have the time to add them all. See
SportsOlympic ( talk) 14:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Earlier this month text and references about 2 cyclists were deleted with the edit summary of They have their own pages; these details should be there. Maybe that could be true but why can't the content be in both? The content could have been copied with attribution. Anyway, I have restored the deleted content to this List - let's discuss. Thanks, Shearonink ( talk) 21:01, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
Minimal info | Full info | Compromise |
---|---|---|
Died after being struck by a van in Zeebrugge, Belgium. According to a statement of the Bruges parquet, Sørensen did not yield on a location where he needed to do so. [1] [2] [3] | Sørensen competed for Denmark in the 2008 Olympic road race, finishing 12th overall. Starting with the 2010 season, Sørensen rode under a Luxembourgian license, since he lived in Luxembourg and the UCI no longer allowed the Danish federation to grant Danish licenses to riders living abroad. [4] During the 2010 season, he won Stage 8 of the Giro d'Italia. [5] In 2017 he retired from road racing and worked as a commentator on TV 2 (Denmark) from 2017 until his death. [6] Sørensen died on 18 September 2021 from injuries after being struck by a van while on a bike ride in Zeebrugge, Belgium; he had been due to cover the 2021 UCI Road World Championships the following day. According to a statement of the Bruges parquet released on 19 September, Sørensen did not yield on a location where he needed to do so. [7] [8] [9] | Sørensen, who had competed for Denmark in the 2008 Olympic road race and finished 12th overall, died on 18 September 2021 from injuries after being struck by a van while on a bike ride in Zeebrugge, Belgium. According to a statement of the Bruges parquet released on 19 September, Sørensen did not yield on a location where he needed to do so. [10] [11] [12] |
References
As @ Shearonink was helpful to point out, I omitted an explanation for my edit to this page where I removed every instance of the word "accident" and replaced it with "crash". The word "accident" is a poor adjective to describe the collisions which led to many of the entries on this page, and per the Associated Press, "...can be read as a term exonerating the person responsible." "In such cases, use "crash," "collision" or other terms," they went on to say. Many leading news publications in WP:REPUTABLE have largely set aside the use of the word. Dreameditsbrooklyn ( talk) 09:31, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Tragic though they were, I don't think that the deaths of Chris Anker Sorensen and Davide Rebellin fit the definition for inclusion in that section. It is headed "The following athletes died while individually training for competitions or during scheduled breaks while participating in a professional race."Both men were retired from any form of competitive cycling. If they are to remain in the list, a new inclusion criterion needs to be introduced, which avoids including any leisure rider. Or a separate section, appropriately defined, should be started. Ideas? Kevin McE ( talk) 08:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Kevin McE - Let's discuss your changes today. Your continuing reversions against NekoKatsun's and my edits without then going to article talk are against policy. Please stop. Shearonink ( talk) 17:36, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
Keeping in mind your concerns about the inclusion parameters, Kevin McE, I have adjusted the lead's wording. That some of the cyclists were retired shouldn't preclude them from being included on this List.
As to whether some cyclists should or should not be on this List, you might not be familiar with the fact that many names have been pruned off of it in the past. And whether or not a cyclist was a professional or an amateur is not always easy to ascertain, especially when anti-professional/anti-working class prejudice and pro-amateur/"Olympic ideals" have held sway.
Hoping to address some of your concerns about names off or on the List...from its beginnings - long before I ever came across it, I don't think this List has ever been intended to become an indiscriminate repository for every person ever killed while cycling (over 1200 in the US in 2020, 141 in the UK, 41K in the world annually) but I think the deaths during racing or training of prominent, well-known, professional, Olympic champion and amateur cyclists reported on by cycling publications and in other media sources, even covered prominently in books...these deaths are notable enough to be included in this List. Cycling publications, the general press, and histories contain extensive information about the cycling deaths of prominent, well-known, amateur, professional, Olympic, champion, present/past/retired cyclists...Wikipedia should reflect that published information.
Going forward if you have specific names that you object to, would it be helpful to take them one at a time? Interested editors can weigh in, discuss the issues specific to that cyclist and we can all come to an editorial consensus together.
Shearonink (
talk)
23:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The athletes listed here were either professional cyclists, pacemakers, or well-known competitive amateurs who had a cycling-related death, mostly during a race or during training) and the "Cyclists who died during training" section (
The following athletes died while individually training for competitions or during scheduled breaks while participating in a professional race). It seems to me that this is the main point of contention everyone's coming to this with, as the deaths you're removing meet the former criteria but not the latter. Does that sound correct to you? Am I understanding your position correctly?
So what is this list actually meant to be about? Is it to present the dangers of cycling as an activity, but only in relation to those who have done it at a high level? Is it about the dangers of cycling as a sport, both in competition and preparing for it? Or is it a reflection on the sad fact that some lives are largely shaped or made noteworthy by cycling can also be ended by it? Or is it a piecemeal collection of anecdotes about deaths which have some relation to cycling? When that purpose is decided, then we can build some meaningful inclusion criteria. And until we have a consensus on the criteria, let's not re-add those who do not fit them.
Kevin McE (
talk)
15:18, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Please google for Sule Kangangi and John Njoroge Muya from Kenya, and there was another one some years ago. Maybe someone can add them? - Hannes Schindler 94.217.143.157 ( talk) 17:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
This removed cyclists from the list. Perhaps the lead section should be adjusted...It makes sense to me that at least deaths that occurred during notable races or events like Breedlove's & Malin's during the different Race Across America events and cycling deaths that have had a major effect on the sport or on their home country like Shamus Liptrot's. (I just Googled the name "Shamus Liptrot" - he seems to be still very much on the minds of his country and in Australian news.) Perhaps if a death is widely reported that should have some bearing on keeping the entry in this List? Anyway, let's discuss. Shearonink ( talk) 15:22, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Niels De Vriendt has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 16 § Niels De Vriendt until a consensus is reached.
Joseph
2302 (
talk)
12:35, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Former Volta a Portugal runner-up passed away aged 34 during training in 1997 - I wish I was more wiki-savvy so I could enter it on the page myself. Struggling with the link as writing his name on the table forces it into a very different Manuel Abreu. 81.109.71.137 ( talk) 15:29, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Neither of these men were on a professional team at the time of their death, and therefore cannot be considered to have been active professional road cyclists. The description of the section they are in is "The following athletes died while individually training for competitions or during scheduled breaks while participating in a professional race." Whatever they may have been preparing for was not a high level race, and therefore they do not meet the criteria. The argument that "both are high level enough to have their own articles" is entirely false according to WP:NCYC: the fact that articles exist does not mean that they should. Kevin McE ( talk) 17:30, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
I don't know if you want to add Junior cyclists too, but Jacopo Venzo died today for the consequences of a crush yesterday during the Junioren Rundfahrt ( source). Martin Mystère ( talk) 09:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
I removed the cyclists' accomplishments in the section because it adds nothing to the article other than unwanted clutter. Just nothing but pointless trivia. SpacedFarmer ( talk) 16:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)