This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
1988 : Connie Meijer (P-B) est victime d’un malaise pendant un critérium aux Pays-Bas
http://www.reponseatout.com/article.php3?id_article=187
My French(?) isn't up to this.
Google isn't much help either
"is victim of a faintness during a critérium in the Netherlands"
Entertainingly, a quick web search suggests that many web sites have used the google translation...
BenAveling 09:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll rearrange according to year of death, as the current cluttered list is very confusing to look at. Poulsen 14:15, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
What about track cyclist who died in a race, I have a list of them. Shoud I add them? -- Nicola54 ( talk) 13:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure Ballerini should be in the list. First, he was no more a professional cyclist, but the coach of Italian national team. Second, he died not during a bicycle race, but during a car rally race. -- Gspinoza ( talk) 18:43, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Were is this information coming from? Only like 25% of names are linked to Wikipedia articles and none of the rest have citations supporting their inclusion. Is this list mostly just cyclists enthusiast posting what they "know"? If so, that violates Wikipedia:No original research, and the names should be removed or given citations. Looks like there's been some work put into this list and I would hate to see it all deleted because theirs no proof given. Dkriegls ( talk) 05:09, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
I've almost completely sourced the 2000s. If others who come by could maybe research a decade this list could be fixed-up in a short amount of time.
I have now started working on the List with the names from the 1800s. If I can find no corroboration for names/information (for instance, I haven't yet been able to find anything on "Froget"), individuals' entries on the List will have to be deleted. Shearonink ( talk) 16:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, the problem is, that it is not just ONE source, but many sources. The main source is: German cycling magazine Rad-Welt volumes 1895 - 1936, German cycling magazine Illustrierter Rad-Rennsport 1936-1945, Germany cycling magazine Radsport, 1948 - until today. -- Nicola54 ( talk) 06:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Reworked the lead paragraph and added an 1892 photo of professional cyclist Henri Desgrange from Commons for historical interest. Want to remove the intro/'guidelines' (with broom) box but some feedback beforehand would be useful. --- Shearonink ( talk) 16:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
That race was definitely a six days race, it is counted officially in their statistics. -- Nicola54 ( talk) 12:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, I do not know what to do. He was old and bit puzzled, may be?? :) Fact is, that all my sources, many of the statistics, mention this race as six days. Well, he ist dead anyway, the poor guy. I am sorry, I just read the ref. again, and I find I misunderstood something. I will have a look in the old magazine. -- Nicola54 ( talk) 09:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted to revisit this page and make mention of the great work done to bring it up to Encyclopedic standards. Kudo's to all editors involved. Dkriegls ( talk) 18:04, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
The photo of the racing is without any connection to the contents of the article.
On the other hand: It shows Henri Desgrange around 1936 and not 1892. Please exchange, -- Nicola54 ( talk) 20:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
There are still some unsourced entries left. I am leaving them in for now but am considering removing their names from the List unless references for the circumstances surrounding their deaths can be found. The cluster of deaths in 1913 has proven especially troublesome. There are also some remaining unsourced entries for deaths that occurred while cyclists were training (mostly connected with car collisions).
The presently-unsourced entries are:
Thanks in advance for any help with this task that interested editors can give. Shearonink ( talk) 07:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been looking at the article recently and was wondering if there would be any objections to splitting off the 'Deaths during training' section. Shearonink ( talk) 18:22, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I've also been thinking the title of this main article should be changed from "List of..." to "Professional cyclists who have died while racing" or maybe "Professional cyclists who have died during a race". The offspring article would be called "Professional cyclists who have died while training or from other cycling-related reasons" or something similar. Any objections or thoughts? Shearonink ( talk) 16:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
The caption to the first photo references the death of a "Breton" at the Parc du Prince in 1902, yet no such name appears in the list nor is there any 1902 death listed. 69.29.206.62 ( talk) 17:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
The article is not only about cyclists who died during a race, so I propose to move the article to List of professional cyclists who died while cycling, or does someone know an even better title? Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 13:13, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Should Mariano Rojas who was killed in a car accident on route to the Spanish championship be included in the second list? -- Pirker ( talk) 15:22, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
November 1904 - Full sentence is missing. -- Helium4 ( talk) 20:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Come on people, did you really think it was right to list the following:
A man who went to France to watch the Tour De France and had a Heart Attack in his hotel room.
A man who was involved in a road accident whilst cycling to a building site to build a house.
A 69 year-old woman who was pushing her bike at a crossing whilst going about her normal daily life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.19.71 ( talk) 02:46, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
With regards to the last edit on the main page:
Why is that mini-section even here?
Is it really noteworthy and worth a whole section on Wiki if a cyclist has died of a heart attack in a hotel room whilst not in competition or if a cyclist has died decades after retiring when pushing her bike across the road?
So is there a whole Wiki page about F1 drivers who died on a motorway in a Ford Focus or in their bedroom whilst watching the Monaco GP on TV?
How about footballers; is there a section about retired footballers who died of a heart attack whilst in a hotel room after watching The FA Cup Final at Wembley?
How about 50K Olympic walkers. If one of those retired from the sport to become a door-to-door salesman and tripped over the pavement and died, would that be worth mentioning on a Wiki page that wasn't specifically about the person in question?
By all means have a Wiki page about cyclists who have died in competition but I just cannot see the justification for having a Wiki page about cyclists who died whilst cycling to a building site to build a house, died whilst pushing their every day bike across the road aged 69 and, most ludicrously of all, died after having a heart attack in a hotel room after watching(not competing in!) The Tour De France! 86.6.19.71 ( talk) 03:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I won't make any more edits myself but Rob Goris' name should be considered for removal as he died of a heart attack in his hotel room having watched, rather than competed in, the Tour De France earlier on in the day. 86.6.19.71 ( talk) 04:12, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
He doesn't appear to meet any of the criteria for notability for cyclists. Sources describe him as an amateur cyclst. BBC Sport. He appears to have never been ridden as a professional or for a professional team.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rehnn83 ( talk • contribs) 15:12, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. — QEDK ( T ☕ C) 15:29, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
List of cyclists with a cycling-related death be
renamed and moved to
List of cyclists who had a cycling related death.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
List of professional cyclists who died during a race → List of cyclists who had a cycling related death – I have several reasons for moving the page
Comment. I do not support this stated RFC as delineated above. I do think changing the title to "List of professional cyclists who had a cycling related death" would be very appropriate for the article as it stood before Fox's death was added. However, I think including information about "amateur cyclists who had a cycling related death " (like Fox) starts verging into WP:MEMORIAL territory (that being said, perhaps a stand-alone article about "notable amateur cyclists's deaths" could be attempted). The reason the professional athletes' deaths are noted here in the pages of Wikipedia is that roadside memorials, large public funerals, death investigations, etc are an long-standing part of professional cycling's culture. Shearonink ( talk) 16:01, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
1988 : Connie Meijer (P-B) est victime d’un malaise pendant un critérium aux Pays-Bas
http://www.reponseatout.com/article.php3?id_article=187
My French(?) isn't up to this.
Google isn't much help either
"is victim of a faintness during a critérium in the Netherlands"
Entertainingly, a quick web search suggests that many web sites have used the google translation...
BenAveling 09:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
I'll rearrange according to year of death, as the current cluttered list is very confusing to look at. Poulsen 14:15, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
What about track cyclist who died in a race, I have a list of them. Shoud I add them? -- Nicola54 ( talk) 13:27, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure Ballerini should be in the list. First, he was no more a professional cyclist, but the coach of Italian national team. Second, he died not during a bicycle race, but during a car rally race. -- Gspinoza ( talk) 18:43, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Were is this information coming from? Only like 25% of names are linked to Wikipedia articles and none of the rest have citations supporting their inclusion. Is this list mostly just cyclists enthusiast posting what they "know"? If so, that violates Wikipedia:No original research, and the names should be removed or given citations. Looks like there's been some work put into this list and I would hate to see it all deleted because theirs no proof given. Dkriegls ( talk) 05:09, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
I've almost completely sourced the 2000s. If others who come by could maybe research a decade this list could be fixed-up in a short amount of time.
I have now started working on the List with the names from the 1800s. If I can find no corroboration for names/information (for instance, I haven't yet been able to find anything on "Froget"), individuals' entries on the List will have to be deleted. Shearonink ( talk) 16:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, the problem is, that it is not just ONE source, but many sources. The main source is: German cycling magazine Rad-Welt volumes 1895 - 1936, German cycling magazine Illustrierter Rad-Rennsport 1936-1945, Germany cycling magazine Radsport, 1948 - until today. -- Nicola54 ( talk) 06:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Reworked the lead paragraph and added an 1892 photo of professional cyclist Henri Desgrange from Commons for historical interest. Want to remove the intro/'guidelines' (with broom) box but some feedback beforehand would be useful. --- Shearonink ( talk) 16:48, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
That race was definitely a six days race, it is counted officially in their statistics. -- Nicola54 ( talk) 12:44, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, I do not know what to do. He was old and bit puzzled, may be?? :) Fact is, that all my sources, many of the statistics, mention this race as six days. Well, he ist dead anyway, the poor guy. I am sorry, I just read the ref. again, and I find I misunderstood something. I will have a look in the old magazine. -- Nicola54 ( talk) 09:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I just wanted to revisit this page and make mention of the great work done to bring it up to Encyclopedic standards. Kudo's to all editors involved. Dkriegls ( talk) 18:04, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
The photo of the racing is without any connection to the contents of the article.
On the other hand: It shows Henri Desgrange around 1936 and not 1892. Please exchange, -- Nicola54 ( talk) 20:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
There are still some unsourced entries left. I am leaving them in for now but am considering removing their names from the List unless references for the circumstances surrounding their deaths can be found. The cluster of deaths in 1913 has proven especially troublesome. There are also some remaining unsourced entries for deaths that occurred while cyclists were training (mostly connected with car collisions).
The presently-unsourced entries are:
Thanks in advance for any help with this task that interested editors can give. Shearonink ( talk) 07:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been looking at the article recently and was wondering if there would be any objections to splitting off the 'Deaths during training' section. Shearonink ( talk) 18:22, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I've also been thinking the title of this main article should be changed from "List of..." to "Professional cyclists who have died while racing" or maybe "Professional cyclists who have died during a race". The offspring article would be called "Professional cyclists who have died while training or from other cycling-related reasons" or something similar. Any objections or thoughts? Shearonink ( talk) 16:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
The caption to the first photo references the death of a "Breton" at the Parc du Prince in 1902, yet no such name appears in the list nor is there any 1902 death listed. 69.29.206.62 ( talk) 17:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
The article is not only about cyclists who died during a race, so I propose to move the article to List of professional cyclists who died while cycling, or does someone know an even better title? Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 13:13, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Should Mariano Rojas who was killed in a car accident on route to the Spanish championship be included in the second list? -- Pirker ( talk) 15:22, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
November 1904 - Full sentence is missing. -- Helium4 ( talk) 20:59, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
Come on people, did you really think it was right to list the following:
A man who went to France to watch the Tour De France and had a Heart Attack in his hotel room.
A man who was involved in a road accident whilst cycling to a building site to build a house.
A 69 year-old woman who was pushing her bike at a crossing whilst going about her normal daily life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.19.71 ( talk) 02:46, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
With regards to the last edit on the main page:
Why is that mini-section even here?
Is it really noteworthy and worth a whole section on Wiki if a cyclist has died of a heart attack in a hotel room whilst not in competition or if a cyclist has died decades after retiring when pushing her bike across the road?
So is there a whole Wiki page about F1 drivers who died on a motorway in a Ford Focus or in their bedroom whilst watching the Monaco GP on TV?
How about footballers; is there a section about retired footballers who died of a heart attack whilst in a hotel room after watching The FA Cup Final at Wembley?
How about 50K Olympic walkers. If one of those retired from the sport to become a door-to-door salesman and tripped over the pavement and died, would that be worth mentioning on a Wiki page that wasn't specifically about the person in question?
By all means have a Wiki page about cyclists who have died in competition but I just cannot see the justification for having a Wiki page about cyclists who died whilst cycling to a building site to build a house, died whilst pushing their every day bike across the road aged 69 and, most ludicrously of all, died after having a heart attack in a hotel room after watching(not competing in!) The Tour De France! 86.6.19.71 ( talk) 03:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I won't make any more edits myself but Rob Goris' name should be considered for removal as he died of a heart attack in his hotel room having watched, rather than competed in, the Tour De France earlier on in the day. 86.6.19.71 ( talk) 04:12, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
He doesn't appear to meet any of the criteria for notability for cyclists. Sources describe him as an amateur cyclst. BBC Sport. He appears to have never been ridden as a professional or for a professional team.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rehnn83 ( talk • contribs) 15:12, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. — QEDK ( T ☕ C) 15:29, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
List of cyclists with a cycling-related death be
renamed and moved to
List of cyclists who had a cycling related death.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
List of professional cyclists who died during a race → List of cyclists who had a cycling related death – I have several reasons for moving the page
Comment. I do not support this stated RFC as delineated above. I do think changing the title to "List of professional cyclists who had a cycling related death" would be very appropriate for the article as it stood before Fox's death was added. However, I think including information about "amateur cyclists who had a cycling related death " (like Fox) starts verging into WP:MEMORIAL territory (that being said, perhaps a stand-alone article about "notable amateur cyclists's deaths" could be attempted). The reason the professional athletes' deaths are noted here in the pages of Wikipedia is that roadside memorials, large public funerals, death investigations, etc are an long-standing part of professional cycling's culture. Shearonink ( talk) 16:01, 30 March 2016 (UTC)