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I removed this from the list of major myths-
I think it is a misconception among a small number of people, and not a myth, to say that Freud discovered the unconscious, and I do not think that there has ever been any significant group of thoughtful people anywhere who have propagated this idea. Can anyone cite anything to demonstrate otherwise? Bluerasberry ( talk) 18:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm moving this here after considerable discussion and general agreement that "mythology" is a useful and accurate term for stories like this except among those who might take offense at it. Scientists are unlikely to be offended by the term (indeed, scientists make exposing and learning from their own folly a point of pride). --LDC
For what it's worth, I really like this article a lot! I think the idea behind it is valid -- there DO exist "myths" ("stories that serve to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon") that apply to science.
I do worry, though, that this concept is an invention, and that inventions might not belong in an encyclopedia. Can anyone find references to science mythology anywhere else? -- Cayzle
It seems to me that this is a title which is ambiguous. I see the term "scientific mythology" as referring to the scientific study of myths in the sense of the work of Joseph Campbell or Mircea Eliade. The present article could be science mythology or myths of science; it could even mean "legends of science". I would be inclined to find a better title for this article. Eclecticology
So far as I know, there is no "scientific" study of mythology. Science and history are different things, with different methods and different goals. I'm sure some people might call their ideas about mythology "scientific", but what they really mean is just "methodical"--or else they just use the word for unwarranted credibility. I don't think that merits treating it as a real science--especially in the case of Campbell, who's barely above the crackpot level in my book. All that being said, you may be right that "legends of science" or something is clearer, but doesn't have the same connotations. I wouldn't move this until we actually have some content that might qualify better for the name. -- Lee Daniel Crocker
I have found a few references, not to a scientific study of mythology, but to a mythology of science. The MythologyOfScience page ( http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/wiki?MythologyOfScience ) is one of them.
I think this page needs to say something about ritualism in science. I'm thinking of the many different versions of the scientific method and perhaps the reenactment of experiments we use to learn science at school. --Chris
The recently added link, Dealing with the Modern Crisis of Religiosity: Reflections from the Aum Case is far more about integrating religion into modern thought than it is about anything to do with science. I don't think it's apt for this article to become a platform for a religion vs. science debate. -- April
Some of this article verges on the relativist "debunking" of science. Science certainly has mythology and rituals, but the scientific method makes unique testable claims to objectivity. I think the pro-science point of view needs to be put more strongly. The Anome
Agreed. I think science and mythology should be given their most positive connotations here. I am interested in debunking certain impoverished views of science, but I'll try not to do it here unless it becomes directly relevant. --Chris
Uh, Chris, I don't really like Feyerabend's citation (text follows). It does not follow the NPOV principle and is IMO dangerously misleading (too "post-modern" a point of view). Because it does not follow NPOV, it should be edited; because it's a citation, we cannot edit it; so, we should remove it, eventually. Perhaps you could write similar ideas in a more NPOV way.
This should be discussed to begin with. Can we really compare thoughts that have different aims. I'd say for the aim of objective and operative knowledge, in areas like physics and biology (far away from psychology), science is the best thought ever. At a higher level, I admit we need non-scientific thought about our aims and the drive of our lives. But that is something else and does not invalidate science, nor does it equate science to myth.
Because Feyerabend "almost" equates Science with Myth in this sentence. Some readers will not grasp the "almost". They will be mislead.
Needlessly breaks NPOV.
State is already independent from science at least as much as state is separated from the Church. Did G. Bush invoke Science before attacking Iraq ???
Call that NPOV ? And it's plainly false. Show me that "dogmatic institution" ! Some scientists may be dogmatic. Most aren't. And there's no unique formal institution for science.
Not NPOV either.
If instead of "science" Feyerabend had attacked "some forms of ideology that invoke science", I would be much more likely to agree. But this is not the case.
I think it's OK to remove the quote. Feyerabend was a supporter of science (believe it or not) and this quote, taken on its own, misrepresents him a good deal. Still, I think Feyerabend and Kuhn had important things to say about certain historical accounts. I'll see if I can find something that fits better. --Chris
On the link: "The Mythology of Science and Technology: Prometheus or Science is in trouble". Certainly the characterization of "Dr. Frankenstein" vs. "Prometheus" views of science falls squarely under "the mythology of science". But, this article is not really about those mysths as myths, but rather employs them as metaphorical devices in making a political point. Certainly the "myths about science" would be great to include here, but I'm not sure that a topical editorial is the best venue. -- April
I saw this page had been moved to "Science mythology". I think that's ugly from a linguistic point of view, while I see no reason not to keep it at 'scientific mythology', I moved it back. Andre Engels 15:55 Oct 16, 2002 (UTC)
I wanted to make it clear from the title that we are not talking about the scientific study of myths, but rather the opposite: the study of science from a mythological perspective. Would "Mythology of science" sound any better? --Chris
If it makes you happy, go ahead. Andre Engels 17:11 Oct 16, 2002 (UTC)
I would again put myself on record as favouring that we get away from this ambiguous term and distinguish between "Myth in Science" which has to do with preconceptions and other myths which have arisen in the course of studying science, and "The Science of Mythology" which refers to the efforts of Joseph Campbell and others to bring order into the study of mythology. I realize that there are members of this community who believe that myths cannot be studied scientifically, but then being dismissive is not very scientific either. Eclecticology 22:42 Oct 16, 2002 (UTC)
Let's see. Yes I think possibly you can study mythology using the methods of science, and maybe Joseph Campbell did so. However he doesn't write much like a scientist and the usual term for the study of myth is
Mythography (no article on this yet). In any case, while the title might be ambiguous, the contents point towards your "Myth in science". --Chris
The lack of elaboration for the "myths" makes them look fairly ridiculous. For example:
And so on with a few of the other examples. A better explanation of Kuhn's take on this might be warranted: that these simplistic, whiggish views of scientific progress with their great men, great experiments, great reason, etc., is a pedagogical tool used to teach science more than an attempt at any deliberate deception or perversion of history. Scientists see themselves as steps in a trek towards truth, which causes them to depict history that way, even if history is more complicated than that, so says Kuhn. -- Fastfission 20:10, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I wondered how long it would be before the 'ritual' section fell out, and frankly I'm surprised that it lingered this long. I wrote it, but I admit that a) it's not quality material and b) that it does not fit an encyclopedia. So I'll let it go without a fight.
The theme however still fascinates me, so be sure to expect something along similar lines in the future! Chris 11:25, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
To me the section on copernicus reads more like discussion than content. Here's what we say,
I think we could improve what is said with the help of a little research. To what extent did copernicus use epicycles; were there more or fewer epicycles than in Ptolemaic system? Epicycles and other corrective mechanisms were added to the Ptolemaic system over time, so I would expect it to be more complex, if only because it is older, but we should find out for sure. What were the reasons for Copernicus withholding publication? Quite honestly, the link we are asked to follow didn't help me decide. Perhaps someone could tell us what we are supposed to see there. Was the Copernican system more or less accurate than the Ptolemaic? My understanding is that there was no great difference. Again we should find out for sure. -- Chris 08:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What is the source for Kekule's dream being mythical? Septentrionalis 01:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Four days and no objections. Out it goes. Garrick92 14:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The most prevalent science myths are the conflict with religion ones. I've thrown a couple onto the list as they are completely debunked and no longer subscribed to by any historian. I expect some resistance to this as the myths are extremely popular with laypeople!
Supply a source for these allegations please, particularly that the churches fueled the prejudice. -- James Hannam 10:38, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
And so on in that vein. From Zoltan Haraszti, "Young John Adams on Franklin's iron points," Isis 41:11-14, 1950. Dan 21:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)I have heard some Persons of the highest rank among us, say that they really thought, the Erection of Iron Points was an impious attempt to robb the Almighty of his Thunder, to wrest the Bolt of Vengeance out of his Hand; and others, that Thunder was designed as an Execution upon Criminals, that no Mortal can stay. That the Attempt was foolish as well as impious.
As far as I'm concerned, none of this classifies as either myth or legend(and hardly at all fit the academic definition of myth), but much is more akin to simple fables, wives tales, urban legends, or outright fakelore. At any rate, the naming of the articles is a misnomer, and shouldn't stay at all. Satanael 20:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was no consensus. -- liquidGhoul 04:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Scientific mythology → Scientific folklore – Same as for the now-renamed Tornado myths, as laid out on Talk:Tornado myths, this isn't mythology at all, far from it. It is more a series of legends and urban legends, not myths, a myth being "a cultural or religious narrative with deep symbological meaning". Furthermore, the title "Scientific mythology" implies that there exist a collection of such stories under a common category, and that it is studied by mythologists, which doesn't and it isn't. The pagename is erroneous, and as such contradicts the Wikipedia article on Mythology; and as a core topic, that won't do at all. Please share your opinion at Talk:Scientific mythology — Lemegeton 11:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I oppose this effort to constrain WP to one narrow meaning of "mythology" before; I strongly oppose it now. Septentrionalis 19:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
It is often stated that the notion that "Columbus discovered America" is wrong, but I actually don't know why. Is it because he didn't visit the American land mass, and the islands are considered to not count as part of the Americas? Or is it because people have decided that the only acceptable definition of "discover" is "to find something before anyone else has"? If it's the former, that is an acceptable definition, but I think people need to clarify that islands are not to considered part of a continent (i.e., Britons aren't Europeans, Japanese aren't Asians). If it's the latter, pretty much the same thing goes: people need to clarify that no one can "discover" a restaurant or a social phenomenon or anything that anyone else knew about first. (This doesn't touch on the flat earth / spherical earth matter.) Boris B 19:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Please disregard the part about Columbus not visiting the American landmass. I totally forgot about his third and fourth voyages. That pretty much answers my question. Boris B 06:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I flagged this page for NPOV violation, because it seems to be biased toward the religious side. It presents a majority of myths about conflicts between religion and science, which are presented in a way to make the religious side look better. Also, the links are mostly to very biased sites, some of which are broken links. Also, perhaps the myth of Ben Franklin using a key for his famous lightning experiment should be added to the list. There is a common misconception that he was holding a key when the kite was struck by lightning, which is untrue. I was unable to find conclusive evidence, but I believe he was either using a leyden jar to collect the static charge or he simply recieved a shock to his knuckle after touching the key, which was statically charged. Monsday 04:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
This article discuss many myths in regard to the relationship between religion and science because it is indeed an area with many popular myths that are not supported by current historical research. See Conflict thesis, for example. -- Leinad ∴ -diz aí. 14:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Yep, this article is blatantly biased towards religion. -- Armaetin ( talk) 02:25, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorely tempted to AfD nom this as original research and original synthesis, but before I do so I'd like to see if someone can trasmute this article from essay to encyclopedic. Groupthink 07:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah. I agree with the "essay tag" you introduced in the page a few days ago. This is an article I am interested in improving and expanding, the problem is that I am very busy in real life (I had previously decided not to edit WP at all during this year...) Anyway, here is a draft I just wrote for the introduction:
Scientific mythology is comprised of a collection of anecdotes that inform the public understanding of the history of science and the history of technology. Some of these anecdotes are factually established, some are of questionable repute, and some are known to be false among scholars. Historians use the term "myth" to describe these popular accounts of the past that are not supported by current historical research. The history of science has been noticed as prone to these mythological accounts, and this article discusses them.
What do you think? BTW, I am not a native English speaker, so maybe there are grammar mistakes in it. -- Leinad ∴ -diz aí. 19:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Although it was long assumed that Newton's apple was a myth, a contemporary reference to it was found in the diary of one of Newton's friends. I'd fix it, but I don't remember where it was that I read it. — WikiMarshall ( talk) 01:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
There are a number of popular myths that depict science and scientists in a bad light, too. How relevant are these to this article? I'm thinking particularly of the Lady Hope story (that Darwin recanted on his deathbed) and the myth that B. F. Skinner kept his daughter locked in a box and that she committed suicide as a result. -- FOo ( talk) 08:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
In light of the sentence "Scientific myths also tend to either overstate or understate the role of chance in scientific discovery," it might be useful to cite Alexander Fleming's discovery of antibiotic penicillin as an example of a scientific myth. The popular tale (one example of many would be John Bankston's "Alexander Fleming and the Story of Penicillin") is that Alexander Fleming serendipitously happened to have an uncleaned culture dish floating around, that just happened to have mold and bacteria growing on it, from a temperature change that just happened to have occurred that day, and that Fleming just happened to notice this and surmised that the mold was producing an antibiotic substance; from which concatenation of chance penicillin was born.
This is a pretty classic example of overstating both the dramatic lone genius scientist and the factor of luck in scientific discovery. As a matter of fact the antibiotic properties of penicillum mold were already known; even without considering a few obscure research papers of junior scientists using penicillin mold to clear infected saddle sores in horses in Arabia (see Ernest Duchesne), scientists in other departments of the same laboratory as Fleming regularly used it as a chemical substance to clear their gram-negative cultures of unwanted bacteria. Its applications for medicinal use in humans had never been seriously considered due to the simple fact that it was prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to produce enough penicillin to be effective in one human being, let alone to be distributed en masse.
And they were right. It was not until the need became urgent during World War II to prevent epidemic spread of disease in wartime conditions and a research team devoted itself fully to mass production of penicillin (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin#Mass_production team of Howard Florey, Ernst Boris Chain and Norman Heatley among others) that it actually became feasible to use penicillin to treat bacterial infections medicinally. And if one were looking for inspiring stories of science heroes to teach to our children, you'd think their story would be a much better one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.56.47 ( talk) 03:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
This article is appalling. Where to begin? After weeding out the unreferenced rambling, we are still presented with considerable WP:SYNTH. What is a "science myth"? Whose term is this? Does it include historical anecdotes of what certain scientists may have done or said even if this is unrelated to any of their scientific work (Newton discovered the law of gravity regardless of the apple. Galilei defended heliocentrism regardless of the eppur si move, etc. Are these "science myths"? According to whom? How is an apocryphal saying attributed to a scientist in any way different from an apocryphal saying attributed to an artist or politician? -- dab (𒁳) 12:50, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Also, are false reports alleging the Church tried to ban certain items of progress (dissection, lightning rod) properly described as "myths regarding science"? Aren't they much rather "myths regarding the Church"? After all, what is being represented isn't science but the attitude of the Church. -- dab (𒁳) 12:50, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
hm, we can probably have something like a "list of popular misconceptions about the history of science" but it will need to be referenced and stay focussed. -- dab (𒁳) 12:59, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
you took my suggestion quite literally :) I was just throwing up a title off the top of my head. -- dab (𒁳) 14:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%83%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%84 Vyacheslav84 ( talk) 09:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
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I removed this from the list of major myths-
I think it is a misconception among a small number of people, and not a myth, to say that Freud discovered the unconscious, and I do not think that there has ever been any significant group of thoughtful people anywhere who have propagated this idea. Can anyone cite anything to demonstrate otherwise? Bluerasberry ( talk) 18:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm moving this here after considerable discussion and general agreement that "mythology" is a useful and accurate term for stories like this except among those who might take offense at it. Scientists are unlikely to be offended by the term (indeed, scientists make exposing and learning from their own folly a point of pride). --LDC
For what it's worth, I really like this article a lot! I think the idea behind it is valid -- there DO exist "myths" ("stories that serve to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon") that apply to science.
I do worry, though, that this concept is an invention, and that inventions might not belong in an encyclopedia. Can anyone find references to science mythology anywhere else? -- Cayzle
It seems to me that this is a title which is ambiguous. I see the term "scientific mythology" as referring to the scientific study of myths in the sense of the work of Joseph Campbell or Mircea Eliade. The present article could be science mythology or myths of science; it could even mean "legends of science". I would be inclined to find a better title for this article. Eclecticology
So far as I know, there is no "scientific" study of mythology. Science and history are different things, with different methods and different goals. I'm sure some people might call their ideas about mythology "scientific", but what they really mean is just "methodical"--or else they just use the word for unwarranted credibility. I don't think that merits treating it as a real science--especially in the case of Campbell, who's barely above the crackpot level in my book. All that being said, you may be right that "legends of science" or something is clearer, but doesn't have the same connotations. I wouldn't move this until we actually have some content that might qualify better for the name. -- Lee Daniel Crocker
I have found a few references, not to a scientific study of mythology, but to a mythology of science. The MythologyOfScience page ( http://c2.com/cgi/wiki/wiki?MythologyOfScience ) is one of them.
I think this page needs to say something about ritualism in science. I'm thinking of the many different versions of the scientific method and perhaps the reenactment of experiments we use to learn science at school. --Chris
The recently added link, Dealing with the Modern Crisis of Religiosity: Reflections from the Aum Case is far more about integrating religion into modern thought than it is about anything to do with science. I don't think it's apt for this article to become a platform for a religion vs. science debate. -- April
Some of this article verges on the relativist "debunking" of science. Science certainly has mythology and rituals, but the scientific method makes unique testable claims to objectivity. I think the pro-science point of view needs to be put more strongly. The Anome
Agreed. I think science and mythology should be given their most positive connotations here. I am interested in debunking certain impoverished views of science, but I'll try not to do it here unless it becomes directly relevant. --Chris
Uh, Chris, I don't really like Feyerabend's citation (text follows). It does not follow the NPOV principle and is IMO dangerously misleading (too "post-modern" a point of view). Because it does not follow NPOV, it should be edited; because it's a citation, we cannot edit it; so, we should remove it, eventually. Perhaps you could write similar ideas in a more NPOV way.
This should be discussed to begin with. Can we really compare thoughts that have different aims. I'd say for the aim of objective and operative knowledge, in areas like physics and biology (far away from psychology), science is the best thought ever. At a higher level, I admit we need non-scientific thought about our aims and the drive of our lives. But that is something else and does not invalidate science, nor does it equate science to myth.
Because Feyerabend "almost" equates Science with Myth in this sentence. Some readers will not grasp the "almost". They will be mislead.
Needlessly breaks NPOV.
State is already independent from science at least as much as state is separated from the Church. Did G. Bush invoke Science before attacking Iraq ???
Call that NPOV ? And it's plainly false. Show me that "dogmatic institution" ! Some scientists may be dogmatic. Most aren't. And there's no unique formal institution for science.
Not NPOV either.
If instead of "science" Feyerabend had attacked "some forms of ideology that invoke science", I would be much more likely to agree. But this is not the case.
I think it's OK to remove the quote. Feyerabend was a supporter of science (believe it or not) and this quote, taken on its own, misrepresents him a good deal. Still, I think Feyerabend and Kuhn had important things to say about certain historical accounts. I'll see if I can find something that fits better. --Chris
On the link: "The Mythology of Science and Technology: Prometheus or Science is in trouble". Certainly the characterization of "Dr. Frankenstein" vs. "Prometheus" views of science falls squarely under "the mythology of science". But, this article is not really about those mysths as myths, but rather employs them as metaphorical devices in making a political point. Certainly the "myths about science" would be great to include here, but I'm not sure that a topical editorial is the best venue. -- April
I saw this page had been moved to "Science mythology". I think that's ugly from a linguistic point of view, while I see no reason not to keep it at 'scientific mythology', I moved it back. Andre Engels 15:55 Oct 16, 2002 (UTC)
I wanted to make it clear from the title that we are not talking about the scientific study of myths, but rather the opposite: the study of science from a mythological perspective. Would "Mythology of science" sound any better? --Chris
If it makes you happy, go ahead. Andre Engels 17:11 Oct 16, 2002 (UTC)
I would again put myself on record as favouring that we get away from this ambiguous term and distinguish between "Myth in Science" which has to do with preconceptions and other myths which have arisen in the course of studying science, and "The Science of Mythology" which refers to the efforts of Joseph Campbell and others to bring order into the study of mythology. I realize that there are members of this community who believe that myths cannot be studied scientifically, but then being dismissive is not very scientific either. Eclecticology 22:42 Oct 16, 2002 (UTC)
Let's see. Yes I think possibly you can study mythology using the methods of science, and maybe Joseph Campbell did so. However he doesn't write much like a scientist and the usual term for the study of myth is
Mythography (no article on this yet). In any case, while the title might be ambiguous, the contents point towards your "Myth in science". --Chris
The lack of elaboration for the "myths" makes them look fairly ridiculous. For example:
And so on with a few of the other examples. A better explanation of Kuhn's take on this might be warranted: that these simplistic, whiggish views of scientific progress with their great men, great experiments, great reason, etc., is a pedagogical tool used to teach science more than an attempt at any deliberate deception or perversion of history. Scientists see themselves as steps in a trek towards truth, which causes them to depict history that way, even if history is more complicated than that, so says Kuhn. -- Fastfission 20:10, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I wondered how long it would be before the 'ritual' section fell out, and frankly I'm surprised that it lingered this long. I wrote it, but I admit that a) it's not quality material and b) that it does not fit an encyclopedia. So I'll let it go without a fight.
The theme however still fascinates me, so be sure to expect something along similar lines in the future! Chris 11:25, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
To me the section on copernicus reads more like discussion than content. Here's what we say,
I think we could improve what is said with the help of a little research. To what extent did copernicus use epicycles; were there more or fewer epicycles than in Ptolemaic system? Epicycles and other corrective mechanisms were added to the Ptolemaic system over time, so I would expect it to be more complex, if only because it is older, but we should find out for sure. What were the reasons for Copernicus withholding publication? Quite honestly, the link we are asked to follow didn't help me decide. Perhaps someone could tell us what we are supposed to see there. Was the Copernican system more or less accurate than the Ptolemaic? My understanding is that there was no great difference. Again we should find out for sure. -- Chris 08:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What is the source for Kekule's dream being mythical? Septentrionalis 01:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
Four days and no objections. Out it goes. Garrick92 14:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The most prevalent science myths are the conflict with religion ones. I've thrown a couple onto the list as they are completely debunked and no longer subscribed to by any historian. I expect some resistance to this as the myths are extremely popular with laypeople!
Supply a source for these allegations please, particularly that the churches fueled the prejudice. -- James Hannam 10:38, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
And so on in that vein. From Zoltan Haraszti, "Young John Adams on Franklin's iron points," Isis 41:11-14, 1950. Dan 21:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)I have heard some Persons of the highest rank among us, say that they really thought, the Erection of Iron Points was an impious attempt to robb the Almighty of his Thunder, to wrest the Bolt of Vengeance out of his Hand; and others, that Thunder was designed as an Execution upon Criminals, that no Mortal can stay. That the Attempt was foolish as well as impious.
As far as I'm concerned, none of this classifies as either myth or legend(and hardly at all fit the academic definition of myth), but much is more akin to simple fables, wives tales, urban legends, or outright fakelore. At any rate, the naming of the articles is a misnomer, and shouldn't stay at all. Satanael 20:57, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was no consensus. -- liquidGhoul 04:31, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Scientific mythology → Scientific folklore – Same as for the now-renamed Tornado myths, as laid out on Talk:Tornado myths, this isn't mythology at all, far from it. It is more a series of legends and urban legends, not myths, a myth being "a cultural or religious narrative with deep symbological meaning". Furthermore, the title "Scientific mythology" implies that there exist a collection of such stories under a common category, and that it is studied by mythologists, which doesn't and it isn't. The pagename is erroneous, and as such contradicts the Wikipedia article on Mythology; and as a core topic, that won't do at all. Please share your opinion at Talk:Scientific mythology — Lemegeton 11:05, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I oppose this effort to constrain WP to one narrow meaning of "mythology" before; I strongly oppose it now. Septentrionalis 19:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
It is often stated that the notion that "Columbus discovered America" is wrong, but I actually don't know why. Is it because he didn't visit the American land mass, and the islands are considered to not count as part of the Americas? Or is it because people have decided that the only acceptable definition of "discover" is "to find something before anyone else has"? If it's the former, that is an acceptable definition, but I think people need to clarify that islands are not to considered part of a continent (i.e., Britons aren't Europeans, Japanese aren't Asians). If it's the latter, pretty much the same thing goes: people need to clarify that no one can "discover" a restaurant or a social phenomenon or anything that anyone else knew about first. (This doesn't touch on the flat earth / spherical earth matter.) Boris B 19:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Please disregard the part about Columbus not visiting the American landmass. I totally forgot about his third and fourth voyages. That pretty much answers my question. Boris B 06:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I flagged this page for NPOV violation, because it seems to be biased toward the religious side. It presents a majority of myths about conflicts between religion and science, which are presented in a way to make the religious side look better. Also, the links are mostly to very biased sites, some of which are broken links. Also, perhaps the myth of Ben Franklin using a key for his famous lightning experiment should be added to the list. There is a common misconception that he was holding a key when the kite was struck by lightning, which is untrue. I was unable to find conclusive evidence, but I believe he was either using a leyden jar to collect the static charge or he simply recieved a shock to his knuckle after touching the key, which was statically charged. Monsday 04:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
This article discuss many myths in regard to the relationship between religion and science because it is indeed an area with many popular myths that are not supported by current historical research. See Conflict thesis, for example. -- Leinad ∴ -diz aí. 14:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Yep, this article is blatantly biased towards religion. -- Armaetin ( talk) 02:25, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorely tempted to AfD nom this as original research and original synthesis, but before I do so I'd like to see if someone can trasmute this article from essay to encyclopedic. Groupthink 07:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah. I agree with the "essay tag" you introduced in the page a few days ago. This is an article I am interested in improving and expanding, the problem is that I am very busy in real life (I had previously decided not to edit WP at all during this year...) Anyway, here is a draft I just wrote for the introduction:
Scientific mythology is comprised of a collection of anecdotes that inform the public understanding of the history of science and the history of technology. Some of these anecdotes are factually established, some are of questionable repute, and some are known to be false among scholars. Historians use the term "myth" to describe these popular accounts of the past that are not supported by current historical research. The history of science has been noticed as prone to these mythological accounts, and this article discusses them.
What do you think? BTW, I am not a native English speaker, so maybe there are grammar mistakes in it. -- Leinad ∴ -diz aí. 19:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Although it was long assumed that Newton's apple was a myth, a contemporary reference to it was found in the diary of one of Newton's friends. I'd fix it, but I don't remember where it was that I read it. — WikiMarshall ( talk) 01:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
There are a number of popular myths that depict science and scientists in a bad light, too. How relevant are these to this article? I'm thinking particularly of the Lady Hope story (that Darwin recanted on his deathbed) and the myth that B. F. Skinner kept his daughter locked in a box and that she committed suicide as a result. -- FOo ( talk) 08:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
In light of the sentence "Scientific myths also tend to either overstate or understate the role of chance in scientific discovery," it might be useful to cite Alexander Fleming's discovery of antibiotic penicillin as an example of a scientific myth. The popular tale (one example of many would be John Bankston's "Alexander Fleming and the Story of Penicillin") is that Alexander Fleming serendipitously happened to have an uncleaned culture dish floating around, that just happened to have mold and bacteria growing on it, from a temperature change that just happened to have occurred that day, and that Fleming just happened to notice this and surmised that the mold was producing an antibiotic substance; from which concatenation of chance penicillin was born.
This is a pretty classic example of overstating both the dramatic lone genius scientist and the factor of luck in scientific discovery. As a matter of fact the antibiotic properties of penicillum mold were already known; even without considering a few obscure research papers of junior scientists using penicillin mold to clear infected saddle sores in horses in Arabia (see Ernest Duchesne), scientists in other departments of the same laboratory as Fleming regularly used it as a chemical substance to clear their gram-negative cultures of unwanted bacteria. Its applications for medicinal use in humans had never been seriously considered due to the simple fact that it was prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to produce enough penicillin to be effective in one human being, let alone to be distributed en masse.
And they were right. It was not until the need became urgent during World War II to prevent epidemic spread of disease in wartime conditions and a research team devoted itself fully to mass production of penicillin (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin#Mass_production team of Howard Florey, Ernst Boris Chain and Norman Heatley among others) that it actually became feasible to use penicillin to treat bacterial infections medicinally. And if one were looking for inspiring stories of science heroes to teach to our children, you'd think their story would be a much better one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.56.47 ( talk) 03:29, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
This article is appalling. Where to begin? After weeding out the unreferenced rambling, we are still presented with considerable WP:SYNTH. What is a "science myth"? Whose term is this? Does it include historical anecdotes of what certain scientists may have done or said even if this is unrelated to any of their scientific work (Newton discovered the law of gravity regardless of the apple. Galilei defended heliocentrism regardless of the eppur si move, etc. Are these "science myths"? According to whom? How is an apocryphal saying attributed to a scientist in any way different from an apocryphal saying attributed to an artist or politician? -- dab (𒁳) 12:50, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
Also, are false reports alleging the Church tried to ban certain items of progress (dissection, lightning rod) properly described as "myths regarding science"? Aren't they much rather "myths regarding the Church"? After all, what is being represented isn't science but the attitude of the Church. -- dab (𒁳) 12:50, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
hm, we can probably have something like a "list of popular misconceptions about the history of science" but it will need to be referenced and stay focussed. -- dab (𒁳) 12:59, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
you took my suggestion quite literally :) I was just throwing up a title off the top of my head. -- dab (𒁳) 14:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%83%D1%87%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%84 Vyacheslav84 ( talk) 09:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)